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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:15:05 PM EDT
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11

loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:20:18 PM EDT
Sadam Hussein thinks so....
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:22:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Roebuck:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11

loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.
View Quote


I mostly agree regarding .gov.

Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough.

Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it.

And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:24:26 PM EDT
It gave liberals the "do it for safety" excuses they wanted to ram a lot of new rules through and cause a lot of damage. So yeah, in a way it did make the country worst.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:24:27 PM EDT
Airports sure as hell suck now. But hey, we're not letting the terrorists win! Were just allowing them to scare us into changing our way of life for the worse.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:26:42 PM EDT
Definitely agree; not that we weren't headed this way but it obviously pushed the timetable forward.  
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:28:57 PM EDT
Yes, no question about it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:30:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:


I mostly agree regarding .gov.

Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough.

Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it.

And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance.
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Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
Originally Posted By Roebuck:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11

loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.


I mostly agree regarding .gov.

Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough.

Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it.

And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance.


Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:33:47 PM EDT
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps.

An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:34:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sturmgeist:


Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now?
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Originally Posted By Sturmgeist:
Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
Originally Posted By Roebuck:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11

loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.


I mostly agree regarding .gov.

Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough.

Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it.

And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance.


Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now?


Oh, he stood up and delivered quite a lecture prior to the vote. They were handed a ~ 2,000 page Patriot Act and required to vote on it the next day. Paul was basically just saying, "Hey, hold on now, let's look at this, understand it."
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:35:05 PM EDT
gee, ya think?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:38:53 PM EDT
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:53:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.

View Quote


Woah, reality instead of revisionist history from a 13er?

Likely due to increased consumption of beer, cheese, and brats.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:03:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Luchs:
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps.

An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller.
View Quote



An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:05:45 PM EDT
yep.   Too much war too much spending too much deficits and that have given liberals leverage to take over and make things PERMANENTLY worse.  The terrorists won.  We should have carpet bombed all of afghanistan into dust and walked away with a stern warning not to do some shit like that again or the bombing will leave no survivors ins whatever village or country we could prove knew something about it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:06:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.

View Quote


According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]"

http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:20:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jestice75:


According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]"

http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm
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Originally Posted By jestice75:
Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.



According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]"

http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm


What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes?

Video of Feingold
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:22:28 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes?



Video of Feingold
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Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:



Originally Posted By jestice75:


Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:

Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.







According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]"



http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm




What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes?



Video of Feingold
article says one senator.   Ron Paul isnt a Senator.



 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:23:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
article says one senator.   Ron Paul isnt a Senator.
 
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Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
Originally Posted By jestice75:
Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.



According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]"

http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm


What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes?

Video of Feingold
article says one senator.   Ron Paul isnt a Senator.
 


Lol! Good point!
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:26:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 11:27:43 PM EDT by CrazyWhiteGuy]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:


What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes?

Video of Feingold
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Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
Originally Posted By jestice75:
Originally Posted By WISCONSIN13:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.



According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]"

http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm


What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes?

Video of Feingold



Why don't you try the actual voter roll call.

Only senator to vote no in 2001 was feingold. Ten voted against the 06 act revamp.

66 Congressmen voted against the 2001 including Paul. 138 voted against the 06 revamp, again including Paul.

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml

He wasn't standing alone in either hearing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:38:33 PM EDT
Here's the other side of the coin:

The WTC attack made it obvious that the government can't be relied upon to protect you.

In some regards, it was like the entire nation was being collectively mugged - and dialing 911 wasn't going to help.

Consequently, a lot of folks resolved to become more self-sufficient that day.

After being neglected for almost 4 decades, preparedness once again became fashionable.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:43:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tomtbo:



An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling?
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Originally Posted By Tomtbo:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps.

An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller.



An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling?

You want the effective type of profiling or the kind advocated by people with bumper stickers that read:  "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11."
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:44:43 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Skibane:


Here's the other side of the coin:



The WTC attack made it obvious that the government can't be relied upon to protect you.



View Quote
But liberals just spun it up to make it look like the only reason government couldn't protect people was because there wasn't enough laws yet.

 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:46:32 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
Oh, he stood up and delivered quite a lecture prior to the vote. They were handed a ~ 2,000 page Patriot Act and required to vote on it the next day. Paul was basically just saying, "Hey, hold on now, let's look at this, understand it."
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Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:



Originally Posted By Sturmgeist:


Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:


Originally Posted By Roebuck:

It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11



loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.




I mostly agree regarding .gov.



Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough.



Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it.



And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance.




Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now?




Oh, he stood up and delivered quite a lecture prior to the vote. They were handed a ~ 2,000 page Patriot Act and required to vote on it the next day. Paul was basically just saying, "Hey, hold on now, let's look at this, understand it."






 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:50:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:

You want the effective type of profiling or the kind advocated by people with bumper stickers that read:  "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11."
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Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By Tomtbo:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps.

An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller.



An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling?

You want the effective type of profiling or the kind advocated by people with bumper stickers that read:  "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11."


To be fair I learned alot.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 12:14:59 AM EDT
Not for the worst. It made us more aware of our surroundings and who hates us. We lived in a world of Dot.Com booms and and how to keep up with the most popular material things to have.  Sure it changed the culture. I hate that it happened ,but i think it gave us a wake up call for alot of Americans to think beyond
just America. It made us even more aware about local crimes.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 12:24:40 AM EDT
At that time, we didnt want to be in convienced. They were running us thru the airports like cattle. ( more passengers more money)
Do you think if we had guards at the airports like they have in the middle east, would it have happened? NO!!
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 12:26:26 AM EDT
Without a doubt.

Link Posted: 9/11/2013 2:47:58 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
Yes, no question about it.
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Link Posted: 9/11/2013 2:52:42 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spitcup:
At that time, we didnt want to be in convienced. They were running us thru the airports like cattle. ( more passengers more money)
Do you think if we had guards at the airports like they have in the middle east, would it have happened? NO!!
View Quote



I don't think airport guards would've changed a thing.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 2:53:00 AM EDT
Other than  acts of individual heroism, not one single good thing has come from it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 3:58:47 AM EDT
Yes - Any patriotism and unification from it faded like a sun tan.

We lost way to many liberties and its being used as an excuse to further agendas to strengthen government and weaken individual liberty.  Governments role has been "we need to grow to protect you" and its gotten to big, expensive and hasn't detoured terrorism.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:02:03 AM EDT
Right after 911 was the best time. It wasn't about left or right. It was all about reaching out to your fellow man because our country was in mourning.



But then as we got further and further away from 911 it just went back.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:22:09 AM EDT
Wiped out the budget surplus, encroachment on civil liberties, massive expansion of government, indirectly led to the war in Iraq ... yeah, they fucked us up all right.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:24:45 AM EDT
Absolutely.

It's turned a lot of people into whiny little bitches about the freedom and protection this nation provides them.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:38:10 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Shenanigunz:
Absolutely.

It's turned a lot of people into whiny little bitches about the freedom and protection this nation provides them.
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Think so?  I think it made many including myself more aware of the "wolves in sheep clothing" who will use a tragedy to for personal gain and to further erode freedoms in the name of safety.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:41:14 AM EDT
Yes.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:42:44 AM EDT
I think the door started to close on what we think of as American freedom back in the 80's. Of course, I was just a child so it's more a feeling than anything. I feel like 9/11 definitely ushered us into a new world. One nation under surveillance and all that...
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:43:45 AM EDT
Made me more aware of creeping sharia. All people of Islam are my enemy. i'm not blind to their deceit and end goal. On the bright side the federal "assault weapons" expired.

Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:47:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:49:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tazaroo:


Think so?  I think it made many including myself more aware of the "wolves in sheep clothing" who will use a tragedy to for personal gain and to further erode freedoms in the name of safety.
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Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
Originally Posted By Shenanigunz:
Absolutely.

It's turned a lot of people into whiny little bitches about the freedom and protection this nation provides them.


Think so?  I think it made many including myself more aware of the "wolves in sheep clothing" who will use a tragedy to for personal gain and to further erode freedoms in the name of safety.

Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:50:12 AM EDT
It was the opportunity the neo-conservatives were looking for.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:50:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Roebuck:


It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11



loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.
View Quote
Damn right it has.

 
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:50:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2013 4:50:52 AM EDT by runcible]
I don't think 9/11 necessarily changed anything. Privacy and personal freedom had been taking it in the ass in this country for a while.






I do think it helped speed the process, though.

 
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 5:10:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


The forces that work against liberty always see opportunity in crisis.
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Roebuck:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11

loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.


The forces that work against liberty always see opportunity in crisis.

Precisely. Liberals know full well they are dealing for the most part with an uninformed electorate, and govern after that crisis with that in mind. School shootings? Solution: increased gun laws. Response to 9/11? Every piece of big government legislation they can muster, all under the guise of increasing safety for the country. Unfortunately this response is all too often supported by Republicans, who are more than willing to accomodate their socialist adversaries across the aisle.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 5:21:22 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By geegee:





Precisely. Liberals know full well they are dealing for the most part with an uninformed electorate, and govern after that crisis with that in mind. School shootings? Solution: increased gun laws. Response to 9/11? Every piece of big government legislation they can muster, all under the guise of increasing safety for the country. Unfortunately this response is all too often supported by Republicans, who are more than willing to accomodate their socialist adversaries across the aisle.
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Originally Posted By geegee:



Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


Originally Posted By Roebuck:

It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11



loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc.




The forces that work against liberty always see opportunity in crisis.



Precisely. Liberals know full well they are dealing for the most part with an uninformed electorate, and govern after that crisis with that in mind. School shootings? Solution: increased gun laws. Response to 9/11? Every piece of big government legislation they can muster, all under the guise of increasing safety for the country. Unfortunately this response is all too often supported by Republicans, who are more than willing to accomodate their socialist adversaries across the aisle.
It wasn't just "liberals", pal.

 
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 6:25:25 AM EDT
Yes.  The freedom vs. security argument took a sharp turn in the wrong direction, with the full support of a lot of short sighted idiots who were fine with it because it was "their" guys doing it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:05:29 AM EDT
Well, the enemy has a strong ally in the White House, so I'd say yeah.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:07:50 AM EDT
In some ways, yes. They won. Yes, we killed Bin Laden and killed many AQ, but they ulimtately achieved their strategic goal. They forced America to change it's stance on civil liberties. The sowed fear and discontent amongst the people.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:08:57 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:


Yes, no question about it.
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Link Posted: 9/11/2013 7:12:59 AM EDT
When Bush said "You're either with us or with the terrorists", little did we know that us meant big government and terrorists meant every American citizen.




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