I would like to wish those who celebrate Kwanzaa a joyous holiday.

Habari gani?

Was buying late presents at the Big 5 on Tuesday and some black guys were saying happy Kwanza to the young girl clerks.  They began to ask them if they ever heard of it.  Both of them say no so one of the guys goes on about how it was an ancient jewish holiday where they sacrificed goats and on and on.  I was laughing my ass of as these girls were just clueless.  It was also nice to see some black guys seeing the holiday as the joke it is.

The news media has not made a big deal about Kwanzaa this for some unknown reason.

Now don't be mean. The Christmas tree stuff started as a pagan celebration and people probably made fun of it back then too.

I just feel that this is the season to be nice to others.

I had a good article explaining how Kwanzaa has absolutely no roots in any African culture and instead was just a 100% made-up holiday "invented" in 1967 (I think.) I seriously doubt that Kwanzaa, or "fruits of harvest," would be a concept thought up by any nomadic hunter/gatherer African tribe.

Kwanzaa isn't on my calender so it doesn't exist. Today is "BOXING DAY". (WTF???)

This is the Internet, where information can be had at the stroke of a key.



From the P389 Cultural Diversity Department

You're Welcome...[IMG]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/aahmed/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

One would think that racial slurs and attacks wouldn't be welcome in this forum, especially on Xmas,  but obviously that is no longer true...and the mods seem to be going along with this crap.  I'm no stranger to being unpopular, so here we go again...

Imbroglio is 100% right.  Most do  not know that Christma is a completely 'made-up' holiday.  It has no basis in religion.  It was originally a pagan holiday that celebrated the winter solstice and the completion of the harvest.  It was to be the last big celebation before the cold and dark of the winter months.  In Europe, the celebration was getting extremely out-of-hand, with public drinking, lewd behavior, and rampant sex and violence. Law enforcement was having difficulty maintaining safety and peace, so the government and the church got together to re-create the celebration with religious tones and the inclusion of children as the  focal point.  It was hugely successful, as we all know.  Hence the tree itself has ZERO religious significance.
The good news is, Xmas is  really a time of happiness, good will towards others, and reflection of any good in the year leading up to it.  Kwanzaa is no different and does, in fact, have the same basis as X-mas...the end of the harvest.  NH2112, the article you read was a ridiculous attempt at discrediting others.  Fact is, many ancient African tribes were agricultural, not nomadic.  They also excelled in animal husbandry and were herders long before anyone in Europe.
Kwanzaa will, however, be doomed to sit next to Chanukah, because it has come way too late and the best time slot and Public Relations was scooped up by X-Mas.  It too, like Chanukah, isn't commercially viable with PRESENTS.  Also, no really good decorations that you can pack up and re-use next year.
Aside from all this, Jesus was believed to be born sometime in April...a long ways from  December 25.  But when the spin doctors get to work, all rules go out the window.
For those who wish to insult me over this, do me a favor and don't bother.  It doesn't bother me and only shows your never ending ignorance.
Besides, racial & ethnic attack on this board only qualifies the writer as the new poster boy for gun control.
MERRY XMAS to ALL!

Egads Royce - you write like you're newer to this board than I am...

Nukem, I keep thinking that maybe...just maybe...gun owners here would rise above racial slurs.  The one thing I can always  count on is that people will disappoint me, with some exceptions.
Truth be told, if the black community in this country were to get behind our fight for gun rights, their political clout would turn things around practically overnight.

I know I will be flamed to the end of eternity for this reply, but I must speak from my heart.

The problem I have with Kwanzaa, is that it seems to me, to be another "black only" separatist action...

Along with BET Television, Jet magazine, Black only colleges....etc........

Why the separatism?

It absolutely incenses me that minorities continually segregate themselves, while at the same time complain about inequality.

I know, that was a blanket statement, and doesn't apply to all.

What I'm trying to say, is that in my opinion, whites see these "Black only clubs" as a slap to the face, something they can't "fit in" because of the color of "their" skin.

This makes them mad, just as it would if we had "white only" television, colleges, holidays etc.......

Of course, that would be a travesty and an outrage for sure!!!

Is there any region of Africa where the harvest season ends in late December?  

Lord, Royce, are you always so wrong about everything else you write, as well?

OK, bright boy, tell us which human holiday wasn't 'completely made up'?

Christmas was never, ever a 'pagan holiday.' It was a Christian holiday from the beginning.
Are you possibly thinking about the ancient Roman holiday of Saturnalia or some other nearby pagan holiday? Christmas has always been the celebration of Christ's birth. Period.

What in the dickens are you saying? What is the time period for the 'government and church' getting together concerning Christmas?

You don't suppose that the reason for the popularity of Christmas over the others is that we still are, for better or worse, a Christian nation?

So Christmas wasn't celebrated all over the earth by Christians until 'presents' became a part of the equation? Gift-giving at Christmas is a rather recent addition to the Christmas tradition. As is the Christmas tree.

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.[:D]

And, in regards to who's showing never-ending ignorance, I await your response to my questions.

Eric The(MerryChristmasToYouToo)Hun[>]:)]

And a Merry Xmas to you , too, Eric.
Here comes my ignorant response...

1) No, I'm not always so wrong about everything else I write as well.  Many AR's have been fixed  due to my ignorant rants & raves.  I have been wrong in my lifetime, and I suspect I will be wrong again.  Anyone who cannot make that same claim please step forward.

2) The comment that X-MAS is  made up or a man made holiday was reference to the fact that the celebration, as we know it, is not purely religious as many believe.  Please read ALL the posts so that you take things IN CONTEXT.  A rather silly point to argue, don't you think?

3) You are correctin that I am referring to Saturnalia.  I, now regrettably, worded this very badly.  Yes, the Christ Mass was always celebrated but was moved to December 25 by the Church to combat the poor public behavior of the Saturnalia celebration.  This was in the early 4th century.  References I have read have discussed the cooperation between the church and local officials to execute and ensure the success of this drastic change.  After all, changing the date of celebration of the birth of the Christ Child was a fairly major historical event.

4) NO.  I think that, although we are a predominantly  Christian nation, we are also a nation of over-worked and over-stressed people who need this holiday as a relief.  It is a festive and joyous holiday that seems to cross all racial and ethnic barriers these days.  I am not a Christian but we celebrate the spirit of the holiday in our home.  It is, in a word, highly successful.  I am quite sure tha people will  follow what works best, regardless of its history.  The proof is that the December 25celebration, which is NOT the correct date for the celebration, successfully replaced Saturnalia because it simply worked better for the general population. And don't be nieve...in the 4th century, if you didnt follow the new deal, you had serious problems.

5) I'm at a loss here because I never wrote that Christmas wasn't celebrated until presents were introduced.  You are right that presents are a relatively new developments (1800's in America) butI never said.

What surprises me (or maybe not) is that you spent so much time mis-reading my post and its intentions and spent NO time on the  main subject, which was YOU not speaking against the racial  slurs against another groups' desire to celebrate/create/ressurrect a particlur ethinic or cultural holiday.  Where is your x-mas spirit and good will towards other men?

I hope you and your family enjoy a happy & healthy X-Mas & New Year, Eric.
Thanks for the lively conversation.

I celebrated Yule last week.

Spot on.

People who CONSTANTLY want to separate themselves, and distinguish themselves apart from other Americans, and then ALSO want to always be included as part of the whole of America are schizoprhenic.

From one of my previous posts on Kwanzaa:


Kwanzaa is based on the Nguzo Saba (seven guiding principles), one for each day of the observance, and is celebrated
from December 26th to January 1st.
   
[b]Umoja[/b]:  Unity stresses the importance of togetherness for the family and the community, which is reflected in the African saying, "I am We," or "I am because We are."[b] "We are Borg" = Kwanzaa[/b]
   
[b]Kujichagulia[/b]:  Self-Determination requires that we define our common interests and make decisions that are in the best interest of our family and community. [b]BULLSH!T - "The needs of the community outweigh the needs of me" = Kwanzaa[/b]
   
[b]Ujima[/b]:  Collective Work and Responsibility reminds us of our obligation to the past, present and future, and that we have a role to play in the community, society, and world. [b]HORSESH!T - Collectivism/Marxism/Socialism = Kwanzaa[/b]
   
[b]Ujamaa[/b]:  Cooperative economics emphasizes our collective economic strength and encourages us to meet common needs through mutual support. [b]ZULUSH!T - Gov't Control of Property/Business = Kwanzaa[/b]
   
[b]Nia[/b]:  Purpose encourages us to look within ourselves and to set personal goals that are beneficial to the community. [b]ELEPHANTSH!T - The individual works for, and is subordinate to, the greater collective = Kwanzaa[/b]

[b]Kuumba[/b]: Creativity makes use of our creative energies to build and maintain a strong and vibrant community. [b]HERDS-OF-ELEPHANTSH!T - "From each according to their abilities, to each according to their need" = Kwanzaa[/b]
   
[b]Imani[/b]: Faith focuses on honoring the best of our traditions, draws upon the best in ourselves, and helps us strive for a higher level of life for humankind, by affirming our self-worth and confidence in our ability to succeed and triumph in righteous struggle. [b]AFRIKAANASH!T- Affirm our self-worth by keeping racial quotas = Kwanzaa[/b]




[b]Kwanzaa is Collectivism.

Kwanzaa is Socialism.

Kwanzaa is a Marxist grab for the "hearts and minds" of the most gullible of the dumbest of the masses.[/b]

Today is also a very special day for Christians.

[b]Anyone know the significance of December 26 for Christians?[/b]

Curiosity lead me to this (link) page

elvis.rowan.edu/~kilroy/JEK/12/26.html

December 26 is the day that Christians go to the mall and look for bargains and return unwanted Christmas presents.

Do I win?

[}:)]

I have no problem with Blacks having a day to celebrate being Black. Or Jews celebrating being Jewish. Or White people celebrating being White.......What's that? Oh..........white people can't celebrate? Oh ok.......... I have a bunch of friends from different races - I just see some hypocrisy in all this

Kwanzaa was "made up" in Berkely California in the sixties.  It is not "celebrated throughout the world".  It does not have "roots in ancient Africa" or anywhere outside of Berkley.  

Its sole purpose, IMNSHO, was to have an "I'm not white" celebration at Christmas time.  Kwanzaa is the epitome of racism.

Here's a site that tries to portray this positivly. At least it's honest about who started it and when.

[url]http://www.dartreview.com/issues/1.15.01/kwanzaa.html[/url]

"..it was developed by African American scholar and activist Maulana Karenga."

Better add a few more adjectives for this convicted felon.  Now I can't recall - was it him, or was it one of his fellow scholars and activists who decided that others among his fellow scholars and activists needed to meet Mr. Blowtorch and Mr. Hammer...?  

OK, I'm assuming you are referrencing my post, as it is the only one that is critical of the holiday before your post.  I just don't see the racial slurs.  Is it because I called the men in the story black instead of African-American? The black people I work with (about a third of the employees) and my black friends never mind when I refer to them as black on the rare occasions when race comes up.  They do get upset sometimes when I call them African-American though.  They remind me that they are not and have never been to Africa. Except for my co-teacher who is from Kenya.

Was it because I criticized the holiday as a joke.  I have yet to meet a black person who celebrates this holiday.  Most of my black friends and coworkers are christians and celebrate Christmas.  They are people who see themselves as Americans and not Africans and don't need an African holiday.

It was a holiday invented by a radical left professor, and the point of my story was to illustrate that most understand this and take humor in it.

Sorry, I just don't see the racial slurs.

[b]Joyous[/b] Kwanzaa

Kwanzaa...what a load of crap!!!
Check out the facts about Kwanzaa "founder", Ron Everett...ooops, I mean Maulana Karenga.
Whatever.

[url]http://www.bigeye.com/kwanzaa.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.frontpagemag.com/archives/racerelations/mulshine12-27-99.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.thedoormagazine.com/webintro/kwanzadanzaa2.html[/url]

Consider this:

If the Saturnalia celebration and the Christ Mass resulted in father Christmas delivering presents.

In the future will there be a Kwanzaa Clause?

How would he dress?

What would he ride in?

What kind of gifts would he bring?

Royce,

I didn't see any racial or ethnic slurs in any of the posts on this topic. Merely saying Kwanzaa is a made-up holiday isn't a slur, it's a fact. It may use Swahili names and terms for the principles behind it, but it was never celebrated by Swahili or any other African tribes. And what exactly does herding have to do with being nomadic hunter/gatherers? Bedouins are nomads, and they herd. Until "modern" times, when white settlers began forcing African tribes (sub-Saharan tribes, to be exact) to live on one piece of land, the tribes roamed with their herds, hunted for meat, and foraged for edible plants, fruits, berries, etc. They didn't plant crops, therefore there could be no "fruits of harvest."

[url]http://www.bigeye.com/kwanzaa.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20010101.shtml[/url]

[url]http://www.jewishworldreview.com/tony/snow123199.asp[/url]

[url]http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20011225tony1225p1.asp[/url]

Like I said, entirely made up out of whole cloth with absolutely no basis in tradition or history.

A May 11, 1969 letter in The Black Panther officially denounced Karenga. Wilbur Grattan, the Minister of State and Foreign Affairs of the "Republic of New Africa," wrote to Bobby Seale: "Speaking in the position of Minister of State and Foreign Affairs for RNA, I have always felt that Ron Karenga represented a great deal less than the best interests of the Black Liberation struggle against domestic colonialism, white racism, and world-wide imperialism."

This, however, did not faze Karenga, who continued to build and strengthen the US. Members of the US followed the "Path of Blackness" detailed in The Quotable Karenga, authored by Karenga himself. "The sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black," the book states.

The US would not last too much longer. On September 17, 1971, Karenga was sentenced to one to ten years in prison on counts of felonious assault and false imprisonment. The charges stemmed from a May 9, 1970 incident in which Karenga and two others tortured two women who Karenga believed had tried to kill him by placing "crystals" in his food and water.

A year later the Los Angeles Times described the events: "Deborah Jones, who once was given the title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vice. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said."

The shooting at UCLA caused Karenga to become deeply paranoid and spurred his bizarre behavior. At his trial, the question of Karenga's sanity arose. The psychiatrist's report stated, "This man now represents a picture which can be considered both paranoid and schizophrenic with hallucinations and elusions, inappropriate affect, disorganization, and impaired contact with the environment." The psychiatrist observed that Karenga talked to his blanket and imaginary persons and believed that he had been attacked by dive-bombers.

Eight years later California State University at Long Beach made Karenga the head of its Black Studies Department. Karenga had toned down his rhetoric and abandoned his cultural nationalism for straightforward Marxism. As an academic Karenga has authored various books on such topics as Egyptian art and has guest lectured at Stanford.

[url]http://www.dartreview.com/issues/1.15.01/kwanzaa.html[/url]

Yesterday a black weather person on the weather channel wished everone a happy Kwanzaa.

What exactly is "black weather"?

That's what happens at night, sillly.

[rolleyes]

NH2112, you're too quick for me.

Nighttime? [}:)]

Edited to add evil grin icon, and to make Norm_G's edit about me being too quick make no sense at all LOL

True. it was the Roman Catholic church. Dec. 25 is the birth day of Hari Krishna as well as at least one other pagan deity. the Catholics placed Jesus's birthday on Dec. 25 in order to eclipse the birthdays of other messianic figures.


Have a Happy New Year!! lib

There you go, CSU in action. San Francisco State hired Angela Davis, Long Beach State this Karenga guy. Are these the best representatives of the Black race they can find?

yes, but there are more than one. a collective if you will of thousands of IRS agents.



He'll be wearing a G suit



probably some type of four door sudan



checks imprinted with redistributed wealth from the productiv....oops, i mean evil child hating rich folk.


[:D][}:D]hehe

Maybe what's really, really, really needed is for black activists to 'repatriate' this holiday back to Africa!

Isn't there anything in the Seven Principles that could address this unbelievably grotesque feature of life in South Africa - infant rape!

[size=4]Child-rape epidemic
in South Africa[/size=4]
[b]Fueled by widespread belief that sex with virgin cures AIDS[/b]
By Anthony C. LoBaido © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

A bizarre belief among many African black men that sex with a virgin -- even a child or baby -- can cure HIV/AIDS is fueling what is already one of the highest child sexual exploitation rates in the world.

According to the latest report by South Africa's Police Service, children are the victims of 41 percent of all rapes and attempted rapes reported in the country. Over 15 percent of all reported rapes are against children under 11, and another 26 percent against children 12-17. For the year 2000, some [b]58 children were raped[/b] or the victims of rape attempts in South Africa [b]every single day[/b].

The trend is worsening. Babies as young as only a few months old are being raped almost daily. Many black South African men infected with AIDS erroneously believe that by having sex with a virgin -- even a baby -- they will be cured of AIDS or their HIV infection.

South African police statistics show that last year alone, 21,538 rapes and attempted rapes of children under the age of 18 were reported. The KwaZulu-Natal province, which includes Durban, where concern has already been expressed over the sharp rise in child abuse cases, was top of the list with 4,797 reported cases in 2000, followed by Gauteng province (formerly Transvaal, which includes Johannesburg) with 4,316.

For the first six months of 2001, some 10,242 cases were reported, and once again KwaZulu-Natal recorded the highest figure with 2,236, followed by Gauteng with 2,076.

This level of crime contrasts with 1994, for example, when a total of 7,559 cases were reported – about one third of the current level. The figure increased dramatically over the next three years and in 1997 stood at 15,336.
*          *          *
[b]"This story has been largely ignored by the mainstream media in the United States and the Western world, in order to perpetuate the Mandela myth of the wonderful New South Africa," said former Republic of South Africa military intelligence officer Koos Ven der Merwe[/b].

And Debbie Coetzee, a South African police detective who specializes in rape cases told WND the situation for babies in South Africa will probably "get worse before it gets better."

"Did you ever read 'Heart of Darkness'? she asked. "Well, we are way beyond that point and well on our way towards barbarism. Abortion, pornography, filthy TV shows and movies, lack of respect for women and children, coddling criminals and rapists, these have all contributed to this crisis."
*          *          *
The incidents of baby rape in South Africa are truly horrifying. Reports by the South African Press Association contain items such as these:

[Remainder of story deleted for excessive horror and violence of the most unspeakable sort]

So just when is [b]Kwanzaa[/b] coming to Africa?

Eric The(ThisIsNoRacialSlur)Hun[>]:)]

Forgot to mention url address for that WND article:[url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25806[/url] [>]:)]

[size=5][b]Merry New Year[/b][/size=5]

Kwanzaa is for liberals.  Kwanzaa is for people that believe in having a collective holiday by celebrating an AFRICAN "tradition".  Again, the all inclusive ACLU bullsh!t.  

As soon as people realize that skin color and foreign culture is irrevalent and that America is America, not Africa, Europe, SE Asia, E Asia, etc, this country will ALWAYS have problems with racial negativism.  

Mr. "The_Macallen", you sir have the right idea, brutha.  

JRB L1A1

What total bullshit!  I can't believe Gary Larson would actually have "Kwanzaa Begins" on his calender.

My thanks to Imbroglio for stirring the pot with a controversial subject.  My thanks to the rest of you for a first class education on what BS Kwanzaa is.  Thanks and Happy New Year to all!

He celebrates the bizarre.

Start Rant:
Again....liberalism trying to discredit something "christian" in order to make themselves viable. "Ohhh, there's no such thing as Christmas...there's no Jesus..there's no God","We should all be thankful for something good...blah,blah,blah".

Jesus was born 2,000 years ago and is still being recognized today for that occurence. Whatever claims of paganism or Druid influence there might be...nothing can replace what Jesus did, not just in his birth...but,in his death. This why "christians" celebrate Christmas. It could be July and it would'nt make a difference. No Christmas tree or wreath can express what has happened in the hearts of millions of people.

So for you liberal idealogues...go back to killing babies and convincing us it's ok. Try to find new ways to take more of our hard earned money or how to make the 2nd ammendment void. Maybe next year you can start a new "Christmas " celebration...instead of the old liberal standard "X-mas"..why not "Racist,Bigot,Paganistic,Homophobe-Mas"?? That should really show "us" christians, huh?

End Rant:

"Liberalism is a pessimistic faith because it never sees the potential in Man, just his flaws. Rather than focusing on ways to free people so they can elevate themselves, liberalism instead concentrates on ways to subsidize people in their current misery. Liberalism is embarrassed by success and prosperity because independent and free people do not need liberals --and above all, liberals need to be needed."

--Cal Thomas

Merry [b]CHRIST[/b]mas

[b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]

I love that movie!!!!!

[url]http://www.msn.egreetings.com/category.pd?L0=61&L1=502&L2=1047&L3=50769&L4=0&L5=0[/url]

hehehe...