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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 6:02:36 PM EDT
First let me say how much I am enjoying being a white belt again. I did the whole progression up to black belt in tae-kwon-do but that was about eight years ago. Hapkido is also a Korean style but I think a bit more useful than the style of tae-kwon-do that I learned. The depth of the locks and throws, coupled with body movements and learning how to fall really give me a great less-lethal alternative to deadly force.

I was talking with the head instructor last week and he was talking about how he thought martial arts was necessary foundation to being an effective shooter. This went beyond weapon retention/disarmament in his opinion. I think he was getting at the fact that mindset is so important which I mostly agree with.

Some people own a gun and think they are covered. Some people own a gun and shoot it once a month and think they are covered. Some people shoot thousands of rounds a month and think they are covered. But someone like Master Onsager can close distance during a draw and have the gun out of your hand before you know what is happening. And even if you get your gun back, your wrist is broken.

I don't know if this is making much sense - I have been upside down today more than I can recount. But I think that I am trying to convey that martial arts in the classical sense - as well as our black-rifle-fu - are vulnerable to one another and necessarily complement one another in an individual who has taken time to "get both."

I am really looking forward to getting a bit more advanced and start figuring out where I can incorporate disarms and draws into my locks and throws.


Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:04:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 6:05:43 PM EDT by Gregory_A]
So you are well schooled if somebody charges you using a downward stabbing motion with a knife.Cool!

J/K,I admire the discipline it takes to learn that stuff.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:13:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_A:
So you are well schooled if somebody charges you using a downward stabbing motion with a knife.Cool!

J/K,I admire the discipline it takes to learn that stuff.



Actually I faulted my previous style for not really teaching me any really effective stuff. I was really good defending the downward stabbing! That is a hilarious move. Nothing like severing someone's femoral artery with the knife they are still holding!

But really, this hapkido stuff is really great. And the instructors are really straightforward about the application of it in the real world. They all acknowledge that none of this stuff is going to work all the time on anybody. The whole reason that our techniques involve two or more actions that simultaneously create pain is so that when most of the technique doesn't work you will still have something to fall back on. Then again if the pain compliance doesn't work at least you are behind your opponent and they are down one functional limb.

I just like hapkido because the ideas are relatively simple - don't use force if you don't have to. And if you do use force, use your entire body. Most of the moves feel effortless to me because you don't muscle your opponent around - you just move your entire body and throw them off balance. This little short woman flipped me hard on the mat without exerting any force - she just took a step back while firmly holding the back of my neck and my jaw. I flipped myself because the alternative was paralysis.

The head instructor runs a yearly program for Delta pilots with his friends up the road in Smyrna. There is also a disarmament/retention seminar every July.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:14:45 PM EDT
I instucted Hapkido for a few years in VA. It's a great self-defense martial art. It can also be very "offensive." Weapons that we taught were the cane, 6 ft. bow staff, and the knife. There is also another form of Hapkido that is picking up some steam........Combat Hapkido. From what I've seen, it looks extremely effective against ANY encounter one might have on the street.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:21:44 PM EDT
Cool! Hapkido is great stuff. I started learning it in Korea, and got my blue belt. When I got back to the states I took it from a guy that taught Jackie Chan. It was originally a martial art for nobles if I remember correctly. To have moves to keep the unwashed masses from touching them. I only remember some of the holds, and my flexibility is not so good anymore from years of back problems and surgery, but nobody better try and grab my wrist! I loved those locks. It was a lot of fun, and very healthy for the mind and body. It's good to hear about other people enjoying it.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:34:59 PM EDT
Hapkido is strong Mojo.

So much so that the one instructor I know severely limits any sparing. BTW he married a Colonel in the S. Korean Army and it was her family tradition to be well trained in that art, so he got worked over good by all the inlaws... Kinda a right of passage / are you good enough for our girl deal. They taught him well.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:37:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 6:40:15 PM EDT by TR]
Is this one of those messy Japanese come shots?

How 'bout Garand kido?

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:42:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfGAB101:
Hapkido is strong Mojo.

So much so that the one instructor I know severely limits any sparing. BTW he married a Colonel in the S. Korean Army and it was her family tradition to be well trained in that art, so he got worked over good by all the inlaws... Kinda a right of passage / are you good enough for our girl deal. They taught him well.



Honestly, I think just about every Korean is a black -belt in something. I saw a car accident there at an intersection once, and the two drivers got out of their vehicles and started kung Fu fighting. It was awesome! They were both very good. I was glad to be on the side lines. My favorite martial arts demonstration over there was by some of the ROK Special Forces guys. They are all 7th degree black belts usually, and they were flying over three or four of each other and breaking like five or more boards at a time;cool stuff like that. They were bad ass.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:42:30 PM EDT
Oh, I forgot to mention . . . Hapkido prepares me for the Zombie Invasion.

There is this one exercise where one of the students is "it" and the other students get to lumber after them slowly with their arms outstretched trying to grab and pull down the target student. The person who is "it" gets to use all of the escape techniques and disengagement moves they know - but they cannot run away. It looks like a bunch of zombies chasing around a tired person who has run out of 5.56.

It also appears that in the higher levels I will learn various bits of staff and knife fighting. I also used to think that nunchuks were just flashy show weapons until I saw one of the red belts practicing with them. Wow. They actually are good for something other than zapping yourself in the nuts.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:58:54 PM EDT
Everyone knows that stuff doesn't work.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:01:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Everyone knows that stuff doesn't work.



All we need to do is check out your avatar SteyrAug....
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:02:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Everyone knows that stuff doesn't work.



Correct. I have a co-worker who is a 145th degree ninja hapkido karate dude. I push him down on the ground by his face at lunch.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:17:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 7:20:47 PM EDT by Irishfly]
Chunk some BJJ into your game when you get serious. You gots to have grappling that is accented by your striking game. Kicking, jumping, and other striking are alot harder once someone wraps you up. Here are some examples.

Example One

Example Two

The following was a Kung Fu guy who challenged any MMA guys to a match. He was voted best amongst his region by his peers. Normally MMA guys would be lined up at the door to fight this guy for free but Kung Fu dude even put up $5000 of his own money to anyone who could beat him. He left $5K poorer with a broken arm-

Example Three

I am not trying to start a "this style is better than that style" pissing contest but you MUST be a well rounded fighter to be effective. No one can argue that.

Check this link for some neat clips of street fights, MMA fights and style vs style-
www.bullshido.com Cuts through some of the crap

I played alot of Judo when I was younger and now have started some MMA with BJJ/kickboxing background. You are right, it is great to be learning again!

Example Four just for grins

Respectfully submitted-
Debo
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:39:41 PM EDT
"Doc, I have a bad case of Hapkido."

"I recommend 5 shots of .45 ACP."
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:57:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Irishfly:
Chunk some BJJ into your game when you get serious. You gots to have grappling that is accented by your striking game. Kicking, jumping, and other striking are alot harder once someone wraps you up. Here are some examples.

Example One

Example Two

The following was a Kung Fu guy who challenged any MMA guys to a match. He was voted best amongst his region by his peers. Normally MMA guys would be lined up at the door to fight this guy for free but Kung Fu dude even put up $5000 of his own money to anyone who could beat him. He left $5K poorer with a broken arm-

Example Three

I am not trying to start a "this style is better than that style" pissing contest but you MUST be a well rounded fighter to be effective. No one can argue that.

Check this link for some neat clips of street fights, MMA fights and style vs style-
www.bullshido.com Cuts through some of the crap

I played alot of Judo when I was younger and now have started some MMA with BJJ/kickboxing background. You are right, it is great to be learning again!

Example Four just for grins

Respectfully submitted-
Debo



BJJ and other derivatives of judo/jujutsu are certainly impressive arts, especially in controlled one-on-one environments. But they tend to break down when faced with multiple opponents and/or armed opponents. "Cross-training" is the key. Grappling, stand up, weapons (including blades and firearms).
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:08:17 PM EDT
I just want to be able to open carry in class.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:08:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Saguaro:
BJJ and other derivatives of judo/jujutsu are certainly impressive arts, especially in controlled one-on-one environments. But they tend to break down when faced with multiple opponents and/or armed opponents. "Cross-training" is the key. Grappling, stand up, weapons (including blades and firearms).



I bet I could kick your ass.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:19:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Saguaro:


BJJ and other derivatives of judo/jujutsu are certainly impressive arts, especially in controlled one-on-one environments. But they tend to break down when faced with multiple opponents and/or armed opponents. "Cross-training" is the key. Grappling, stand up, weapons (including blades and firearms).



OK class pay attention cause I'm only gonna tell you guys once.

1. ANYTHING is better than nothing.

2. The more you know the better off you are.

3. There is no "superior" martial art or style, there are only ones best suited for certain applications.

4. If a "best" style actually existed no other style would.

5. Contests and combat are won by the PRACTIONER and not the system.

6. Never have only ONE PLAN to save your ass, never depend on only ONE THING to save your life.

7. No matter what you do, your opponent has the means to counter you. No matter what your opponent does you have a way to counter his action. Fights and wars are won when one guy fails to realize the counter or lacks the ability to pull it off.

8. There is no "perfect attack" that can't be countered or it would be the ONLY movement anyone would need to learn as there would be no way to defeat it. It doesn't exist.

9. There is no "perfect defense" that can't be defeated or it would be the ONLY movement anyone would need to learn as there would be no way to defeat it. It doesn't exist.

There should be no questions...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:22:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 9:22:38 PM EDT by ARDOC]
SteyrAug is correct but things he forgot to add.

Dont bring a knife to a gun fight. Be as prepared and as heavily armed as possible.

There is no shame is avoiding confrontation. Running is better then dying.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:25:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
SteyrAug is correct but things he forgot to add.

Dont bring a knife to a gun fight. Be as prepared and as heavily armed as possible.

There is no shame is avoiding confrontation. Running is better then dying.



I think that is covered by #6.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:27:28 PM EDT
Yeah, SteyrAUG is right. I am not extolling the virtues of hapkido above and beyond all other forms of armed or unarmed combat. What I am saying is that, given my limited experience with firearms and my "hard" martial art background I have found hapkido to be a very good complement overall. It makes me more balanced and gives me more options.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:36:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By Saguaro:
BJJ and other derivatives of judo/jujutsu are certainly impressive arts, especially in controlled one-on-one environments. But they tend to break down when faced with multiple opponents and/or armed opponents. "Cross-training" is the key. Grappling, stand up, weapons (including blades and firearms).



I bet I could kick your ass.



Were you born stupid or did your parents drop you on your head? Too much of that paint huffin' perhaps? Just wondering....

In other news, Sin_Bin had a little run in with the law last night:
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:36:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
Yeah, SteyrAUG is right. I am not extolling the virtues of hapkido above and beyond all other forms of armed or unarmed combat. What I am saying is that, given my limited experience with firearms and my "hard" martial art background I have found hapkido to be a very good complement overall. It makes me more balanced and gives me more options.



I agree with this. Besides physical skills most martial arts also teach you control of your emotions and an ability to think and react under pressure.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:38:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Everyone knows that stuff doesn't work.



Correct. I have a co-worker who is a 145th degree ninja hapkido karate dude. I push him down on the ground by his face at lunch.



and you take his sammiches too!

what kind of sammiches does he like?

I like the roast beef w/ provolone and some horrseyradish/mayo too.

If not that.... what's his girlfriend got?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:38:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
Yeah, SteyrAUG is right. I am not extolling the virtues of hapkido above and beyond all other forms of armed or unarmed combat. What I am saying is that, given my limited experience with firearms and my "hard" martial art background I have found hapkido to be a very good complement overall. It makes me more balanced and gives me more options.



Covered by #2.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:40:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
Yeah, SteyrAUG is right. I am not extolling the virtues of hapkido above and beyond all other forms of armed or unarmed combat. What I am saying is that, given my limited experience with firearms and my "hard" martial art background I have found hapkido to be a very good complement overall. It makes me more balanced and gives me more options.



Covered by #2.



Covered by #7.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:45:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Saguaro:


BJJ and other derivatives of judo/jujutsu are certainly impressive arts, especially in controlled one-on-one environments. But they tend to break down when faced with multiple opponents and/or armed opponents. "Cross-training" is the key. Grappling, stand up, weapons (including blades and firearms).



OK class pay attention cause I'm only gonna tell you guys once.

1. ANYTHING is better than nothing.

2. The more you know the better off you are.

3. There is no "superior" martial art or style, there are only ones best suited for certain applications.

4. If a "best" style actually existed no other style would.

5. Contests and combat are won by the PRACTIONER and not the system.

6. Never have only ONE PLAN to save your ass, never depend on only ONE THING to save your life.

7. No matter what you do, your opponent has the means to counter you. No matter what your opponent does you have a way to counter his action. Fights and wars are won when one guy fails to realize the counter or lacks the ability to pull it off.

8. There is no "perfect attack" that can't be countered or it would be the ONLY movement anyone would need to learn as there would be no way to defeat it. It doesn't exist.

9. There is no "perfect defense" that can't be defeated or it would be the ONLY movement anyone would need to learn as there would be no way to defeat it. It doesn't exist.

There should be no questions...



All righty. Not sure if you're talking to me, but since you quoted my post, I'll just say that nothing you said here contradicts what I said. My point was to get as much training as you can in as many different fighting arts as possible. And don't expect things to work out like they do in controlled dojo or match environments.

As for the original post, hapkido always struck me as an interesting art. Can't say as I know that much about it, but my understanding is that it's kind of a cross between TKD and aikido. How practical is the training? Do you think you'd be able to use it against a determined opponent?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:52:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 9:53:01 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By Saguaro:


All righty. Not sure if you're talking to me, but since you quoted my post, I'll just say that nothing you said here contradicts what I said. My point was to get as much training as you can in as many different fighting arts as possible. And don't expect things to work out like they do in controlled dojo or match environments.

As for the original post, hapkido always struck me as an interesting art. Can't say as I know that much about it, but my understanding is that it's kind of a cross between TKD and aikido. How practical is the training? Do you think you'd be able to use it against a determined opponent?



Only reason I quoted your post was you were extolling the virtues of Brand X martial art.

Your post only served as an example. I wasn't suggesting you said anything wrong.

Just wanted to address the issue before we had 8 pages of "Krav Maga is better than MMA" or similar ridiculousness.

And you are basically correct about Hapkido being a blend of TKD (the older Chang Hon) and Aikido.

Any style will be effective against a determined opponent IF the student is sufficiently skilled.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:54:59 PM EDT
Hapkido?


Do you have the boots to match?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 10:13:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 10:15:16 PM EDT by Saguaro]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Saguaro:

All righty. Not sure if you're talking to me, but since you quoted my post, I'll just say that nothing you said here contradicts what I said. My point was to get as much training as you can in as many different fighting arts as possible. And don't expect things to work out like they do in controlled dojo or match environments.

As for the original post, hapkido always struck me as an interesting art. Can't say as I know that much about it, but my understanding is that it's kind of a cross between TKD and aikido. How practical is the training? Do you think you'd be able to use it against a determined opponent?



Only reason I quoted your post was you were extolling the virtues of Brand X martial art.

Your post only served as an example. I wasn't suggesting you said anything wrong.

Just wanted to address the issue before we had 8 pages of "Krav Maga is better than MMA" or similar ridiculousness.

And you are basically correct about Hapkido being a blend of TKD (the older Chang Hon) and Aikido.

Any style will be effective against a determined opponent IF the student is sufficiently skilled.



Not sure which "Brand X" style I was extolling. I've studied tang soo do, Shito-ryu, judo, arnis/escrima, kickboxing, and a bit of TKD, taiji, hsing-i, bagua, aikido, wing chun, fencing, and silat. All were fun. But some were most certainly more effective than others. BJJ/judo, arnis, and muay thai are effective IMHO. TKD and aikido struck me as being too concerned with tradition, style, tournament fighting, and "spiritual" development--not so concerned with how your average street thug plays and what techniques would work against an opponent bigger, meaner, stronger, better armed, and more experienced in cracking heads. Not sure how hapkido players train, though.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 11:00:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Everyone knows that stuff doesn't work.



SteyrAUG, if it don't work for you, then it don't work.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 11:07:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Just wanted to address the issue before we had 8 pages of "Krav Maga is better than MMA" or similar ridiculousness.




You mean it isn't?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 9:01:37 AM EDT
.45 is better than Krav Maga is better than 9mm is better than MMA.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 9:07:48 AM EDT
I'm glad you're enjoying the Hapkido. I haven't seen Nils in years. When I was at Tech, I took the other Hapkido class, so he never instructed me. I do have a close friend who is pretty high-ranking in his class. Do you know Erik?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 9:40:03 AM EDT
/random guy

Yeah I do MMA.

j/k

I think your instructor is right. Martial arts have many more benefits then just the striking. My instructor drills into us that relaxation is the key. Don't hurry, do it right. I have found many benefits other than strength and flexibility. Breathing for one, in my shooting it has really helped me to relax and not flinch.

Besides every time I get home from my gung fu class, I sleep like a baby. I am totally relaxed after going 3-4 rounds full contact. Nothing beats that sleep, nothing.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 10:46:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rnewberry:
I'm glad you're enjoying the Hapkido. I haven't seen Nils in years. When I was at Tech, I took the other Hapkido class, so he never instructed me. I do have a close friend who is pretty high-ranking in his class. Do you know Erik?



If Erik is the one I am thinking of he was my instructor yesterday for kicks.

Nils is quite a character.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:01:02 AM EDT
Steyer you kind of remind me of a well armed caucasian Mr. Miagi. CLP on, CLP off. CLP on CLP off.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 11:35:55 AM EDT
Man, I miss Hapkido. I was about 2 weeks away from a red belt and had to move away from Master West in Miss. He was an excellent teacher who learned from the Koreans he was attached to during VN (he had to learn it or not be their liason). Apparently he had to use it alot there as well.

Ah I miss it but no good places here close by that teach it or I would resume.

Link Posted: 9/26/2005 1:19:56 PM EDT

There is also another form of Hapkido that is picking up some steam........Combat Hapkido. From what I've seen, it looks extremely effective against ANY encounter one might have on the street.


I take Combat Hapkido and I enjoy it. We don't do any forms or punching the air from a horse stance. It's all directly applicable to defending yourself. It has a lot of hand to hand techniques as already stated. We also learn how to use the cane, stick fighting, gun and knife defenses. We have seminars periodically to introduce other styles that compliment what we do.

Something is always better than nothing. If anything, it saves you from having to think to yourself what you should do while you're in a fight,
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