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Posted: 10/29/2004 6:28:07 AM EDT
We had an employee fail a drug test during his annual physical. I had to deliver the news, my first time.

Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:31:39 AM EDT
Sp how did you do it?  Call him into an office and make everything official like or did you just walk up to his station and say "get the fuck out ya druggie bastard"?

Either way, I think it would be a tough thing to do.  Especially if it were a decent person otherwise.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:33:31 AM EDT
I would of been silent and used dolls - pulling the head off of one - pointing at it and then pointing at him.  Then the other dolls would have danced around the headless one.

Did I get that right Sarge?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:33:35 AM EDT

Quoted:
Sp how did you do it?  Call him into an office and make everything official like or did you just walk up to his station and say "get the fuck out ya druggie bastard"?.





Sorta like the cop: You the Widow Thomas?

I ain't no widow.

Like hell you're not.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 6:34:24 AM EDT
Well, if it makes you feel any better, he made the decision to quit when he started toking up that reefer.  He knew that it was against company policy and against the law, but he did it anyway hoping that he wouldn't be discovered.  He weighed the pro's and con's and chose poorly but he made his decision as an informed individual, you didn't stand there and shove a joint in his mouth and spark it up.    

Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:10:23 AM EDT
We had to call him in from the job site when I was on-site for my weekly visit.  We told the crew to secure operations and return to the office.  The Sup and I asked him to come into the office trailer.  I told him he  failed his test and our policy dictates termination. He didn't even dispute the results.

Our Sup asked if I want him to do it.  I appericated that but did it myself because it's my job.

He wasn't a bad guy but with the type of work we do and the clients we work for we don't have a choice.

Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:17:10 AM EDT
Was he stoned at work?  I understand company policy for drugs but disagree with the penalty part of it.  If the person is stoned at work, fire his ass, no questions asked.  If the person uses off the jobsite then it's not the companies buisness to enforce laws.

If a state has sodomy laws and you have a homo working for you do you fire them?  How about any other law that they break off site?  When did corporate America become a law enforcement agency?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:17:35 AM EDT
That sucks, but sounds like you had no other choice.  Unfortunately, the employee made the choices that left you no other option.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:20:38 AM EDT
Picture a giggling, stoned man operating a crane holding a 10-ton steel beam, with 3 men trying to help position it.  
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:21:49 AM EDT
I don't know, I think it's necessary for that type of operation to have drug free operators but that does suck if the guy just smoked a spliff at a weekend party somewhere.  Still, it was his decision, you had to do what you did.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:22:53 AM EDT
Don't sweat it.  It gets easier.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:26:13 AM EDT
Should have bought him a bong and said.... here is your severence package....
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:28:02 AM EDT

Quoted:
Should have bought him a bong and said.... here is your severence package....



Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:35:54 AM EDT

Quoted:
Was he stoned at work?  I understand company policy for drugs but disagree with the penalty part of it.  If the person is stoned at work, fire his ass, no questions asked.  If the person uses off the jobsite then it's not the companies buisness to enforce laws.

If a state has sodomy laws and you have a homo working for you do you fire them?  How about any other law that they break off site?  When did corporate America become a law enforcement agency?



You really believe drug users limit their use to just Fiday night, to make sure they are sober for Monday-Friday?  My opinion is drug use is a good measure of the moral integrity of a man.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:37:32 AM EDT
If you told him "your fired", I think you owe Trump some money.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:42:08 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Was he stoned at work?  I understand company policy for drugs but disagree with the penalty part of it.  If the person is stoned at work, fire his ass, no questions asked.  If the person uses off the jobsite then it's not the companies buisness to enforce laws.

If a state has sodomy laws and you have a homo working for you do you fire them?  How about any other law that they break off site?  When did corporate America become a law enforcement agency?



You really believe drug users limit their use to just Fiday night, to make sure they are sober for Monday-Friday?  My opinion is drug use is a good measure of the moral integrity of a man.



+1  Poor observation skills and no drug testing led to many 'recreational' drug users being stoned and drunk at work, at my last place of employment.  10 to 1, many users toke up at break and lunch.  You don't find out until they almost cut their farking hand off.  CA has mandatory drug testing when it  is a workman's comp/OSHA incident.  That is how we found our stoners.  They did find the hand.

You also will find out when a couple of employees are having a mood swing related to their drug abuse and they just snap at work.  Had a couple hauled off in hand cuffs.

Legalize drugs?  Sure, right, not on my watch.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:47:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:49:54 AM EDT

Quoted:

Sorta like the cop: You the Widow Thomas?

I ain't no widow.

Like hell you're not.



haha, no easy let down there  
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:50:36 AM EDT

Quoted:
You really believe drug alcohol users limit their use to just Fiday night, to make sure they are sober for Monday-Friday? My opinion is drug alcohol
use is a good measure of the moral integrity of a man.


let the bastards get fired for boozing or smoking (like the company up in michigan tried recently) and watch the ceo's change their minds in a hurry.






Zactly.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:52:00 AM EDT
Pooper, pics
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:54:51 AM EDT

Quoted:
You really believe psycholgical prescription users limit their use to just Friday night, to make sure they are sober for Monday-Friday? My opinion is psychological druguse is a good measure of the moral integrity of a man.

let the bastards get fired for boozing or smoking or zoloft or welbutrin or ritilin or (like the company up in michigan tried recently) and watch the ceo's change their minds in a hurry.




Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:56:58 AM EDT
There are companies out there that don't drug test, and you can always go into business for yourself.  But if you take a job knowing they have a no-drug policy, and you violate that policy, then be prepared to accept the consequences when you get caught.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:57:05 AM EDT

Quoted:
Picture a giggling, stoned man operating a crane holding a 10-ton steel beam, with 3 men trying to help position it.  



Yup.......had to be done.......Don't worry, it does get easier and it was the right thing to do.  As long as it is justified you would do much more harm not terminating him......other employees will think you are a pushover, and inconsistent with policy(biased).........Hold your head up high, tough decisions are made by good leaders, tough decisions are avoided by poor leaders.....
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 7:58:20 AM EDT
I've fired two this year. I hate doing it. I lost a little sleep over one, but it had to be done.
The second guy I cut was fired for being dumb! I've never seen anything like it. He sold
himself hard during his interview, but just could not perform his duties without having his
hand held all the time.

I don't get it. All these young guys out of college wanting a big salary and most are lazy, no common sense and stooopide. What ever happened to start near the bottom and earn your stripes?
Spoided little twits!
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:02:37 AM EDT

Quoted:
Don't sweat it.  It gets easier.


SGatr15



+1
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:07:00 AM EDT
That must be tough being the axman.  At least it was a cut and dried matter.  Can't dispute a dirty test.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:07:18 AM EDT
What kind of employee was he?
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:10:11 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Don't sweat it.  It gets easier.


SGatr15



+1



+2

It helps the morale of the people who really are doing their jobs well.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:11:08 AM EDT
Next time try this,

"Okay, Everyone that still works here step forward."

"Not so fast bill."

that  would be funny.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:17:26 AM EDT

Quoted:
We had an employee fail a drug test during his annual physical. I had to deliver the news, my first time.




You did not fire him.  He fired himself.  When he took the job, he knew about the drug tests, right?  He was probably on company time when he went to take the test, right?  If he had drugs in his system when he went to take the test, then he had drugs in his system on company time.

They made me the ax manager when I was in retail.  It was really tough.  I hated it.  "oh by the way we need to get rid of so and so, you don't mind laying them off do you?"  SOBs  lay them off yourself!  

It was always just reasons to fire the person, but it's still hard.  Just try to remember, as long as you are fireing them for just reasons the employee is actually asking for it.  Don't break the rules = keep your job.  Break the rules = sorry, but bye bye
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:23:14 AM EDT

Quoted:
Was he stoned at work?  I understand company policy for drugs but disagree with the penalty part of it.  If the person is stoned at work, fire his ass, no questions asked.  If the person uses off the jobsite then it's not the companies buisness to enforce laws.

If a state has sodomy laws and you have a homo working for you do you fire them?  How about any other law that they break off site?  When did corporate America become a law enforcement agency?



"I'm sorry Bruce, you failed the rectum test. We have to let you go."
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:29:54 AM EDT

Quoted:
You really believe drug alcohol users limit their use to just Fiday night, to make sure they are sober for Monday-Friday? My opinion is drug alcohol
use is a good measure of the moral integrity of a man.


let the bastards get fired for boozing or smoking (like the company up in michigan tried recently) and watch the ceo's change their minds in a hurry.







But campy, alcohol is not a 100% illegal drug like pot.  You can be illegal with alcohol if you drive or hurt someone, but there is no circumstance in which you can be high on pot and not break the law.  He also knew the policy when he signed up.  It was in his contract.

This goes back to the whole contract issue.  I'm all for see more boobs on tv (id rather not see the saggy cow boobs that the superbowl controversy was about) but ABC signed a contract with the FCC when they licensed the freqencies, airspace etc.  They violated that aggreement with a saggy orangutang titty and must pay the price.  


I do agree with you to some extent.  
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:35:34 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Was he stoned at work?  I understand company policy for drugs but disagree with the penalty part of it.  If the person is stoned at work, fire his ass, no questions asked.  If the person uses off the jobsite then it's not the companies buisness to enforce laws.

If a state has sodomy laws and you have a homo working for you do you fire them?  How about any other law that they break off site?  When did corporate America become a law enforcement agency?



You really believe drug users limit their use to just Fiday night, to make sure they are sober for Monday-Friday?  My opinion is drug use is a good measure of the moral integrity of a man.



Yeah, they should fire anybody who drinks a beer on the weekend too.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:41:57 AM EDT

Quoted:
Next time try this,

"Okay, Everyone that still works here step forward."

"Not so fast bill."

that  would be funny.



Almost. Had someone I worked with that I had to sit in on a termination with several years ago. He called the guy in and says" Bill, today we are going to give you an exciting opportunity, with another company".....
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:43:00 AM EDT

Quoted:
What kind of employee was he?



Equipment Operator working a hazardous waste site.  We do alot of work for .gov so we have a fairly strict drug policy.

It amazes me that he knew about the physical weeks ahead of time but still failed.  He had to be getting stoned even after he knew his physical was scheduled.



Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:48:04 AM EDT
Sounds like this guy needed to be fired.  I mean hell you did say ANNUAL physical.  You only have to get clean and pass one drug test a year and his incompent ass can't even do that?  
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:50:27 AM EDT
He was already a pot head and now you expect him to be sharp???


He was probably a DU'er.  Someone see if theyre bitching about republican atrocities at work.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 8:50:36 AM EDT
My company works for an automotive manufacture in the upstate and we have a strict policy on drugs and we have had multiple people fail one.  Sucks some are good guys for the most part.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:16:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:26:59 AM EDT

Quoted:
But campy, alcohol is not a 100% illegal drug like pot.

alcohol fux you up as bad or worse than most drugs, is far more prevalent and the irs just brought back that old business favorite, the "3-martini lunch", as a dedudtible exspense.

besides, companies do not test for 'legality'. they test because drugs affect job performance and safety.

so does booze.

You can be illegal with alcohol if you drive or hurt someone, but there is no circumstance in which you can be high on pot and not break the law.

in most places, being publicly stoned is the same misdemeanor level as being publicly intoxicated.

public intoxication is"illegal", if that is your litmus test. it has been for decades.

He also knew the policy when he signed up. It was in his contract.

agreed, but, not my point.  buzzed up workers in some positions need to be dealt with. everything from a simple corporate reputation if the guy was seen doing dumb shit by a customer to safety to doing an acceptably good job to profitability are riding on the personel being able to do the job.

my point is that 'if' they test for drugs they better be testing for alcohol because it affects performance on the job. it affects performance whether you operate that hypothetical crane oryou  make critical decisions regarding the fate of a company and its' employees in a boardroom.

my point is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. test the crane operator...no problem. a fuxed up crane operator is never a good thing.  the next guy in line to piss in the cup better be the ceo right after lunch... after he drove back the office in the company owned lincoln that is insured with a policy with the company's name on it. or after his big-fling meeting with the client, where he agreed to do a job at too low a profit margin to buy the crane guy the much needed safety equipment...not that THAT will ever come to pass in america. executive decisions carry risk of doing harm to the company's reputation and bodily harm to others, also.

one drug is pretty much the same as the other to me. pot or booze...there's just not much difference in my eyes.

and if you think back a bit, booze WAS 'illegal' in america...once upon a time.

how did that work out?




I do agree but he still knew the requirements.  Dont have drug remains in your blood, keep your job.  As far as I know they only way to administer a drug test that tests for alcohol too is a blood test and no thanks to that.  They could always do a pee test and a breahtalyzer but then the price goes up.  


I think it falls back to the fact that we as a nation are ok with alcoholism but not publically ok with drug use.  Lots of people use drugs, lots of people abuse drugs.  Drugs includes alcohol.  

Its each employeers right to test for whats in you when you're on they're time.  Its your right not to work there if they have requirements that you dont agree with.  
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:35:31 AM EDT
I fired a guy once who was my friend when I hired him.  He cried.  It was bad.
I fired another guy for trafficking in pirated software on company computers and pornography.  He was a habitual liar and lied up until we had him escorted out of the door.  It was sad, but I don't regret letting his sorry ass go.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 9:43:06 AM EDT
It's hard to do, even when you know it's right.  Maybe you saved somebody, or at least saved the company money down the road.  Don't forget to be on alert in case he goes postal.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:09:24 AM EDT
had to take a drug test for my part time retail job. i see it more and more. this is a drug free place of employment. that is the rule, don't like it, go somewhere else.
be well
maxwell
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:15:28 AM EDT

Quoted:
You did not fire him.  He fired himself.  When he took the job, he knew about the drug tests, right?  He was probably on company time when he went to take the test, right?  If he had drugs in his system when he went to take the test, then he had drugs in his system on company time.



Not to pick nits, but pot stays in your "system" for 14 days.  It doesn't affect you for nearly that time.  

(I am not against drug testing btw, because that joint you smoked Sunday DEFINITELY affects your performance Monday).


Quoted:
But campy, alcohol is not a 100% illegal drug like pot. You can be illegal with alcohol if you drive or hurt someone, but there is no circumstance in which you can be high on pot and not break the law. He also knew the policy when he signed up. It was in his contract.



Likewise, it should be illegal for you to have detectable alcohol in your system when you come to work.  A hangover Monday morning is just as dangerous and counterproductive as a guy who smoked weed on the weekend, maybe more.

Whether something is against the law or not has little to do with the effects on the employees.


Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:23:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:31:53 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Picture a giggling, stoned man operating a crane holding a 10-ton steel beam, with 3 men trying to help position it.  




So how exactly did we get to structural steel from the drug bust?



I inferred from the earlier posts that the person who got fired used heavy equipment of some sort.  I gave the illustration to demonstrate that other people's lives can be affected by the sobriety of the person operating the equipment - so he would quit beating himself up about firing the guy.  He did the right thing in firing him.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:34:41 AM EDT
JimBeam,

LEGAL drugs can also affect performance, as much or worse than pot.  I took a soma prescribed because of a back injury Monday and feel like I got slapped by the happy clown.  I'm glad I was home at the time.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:40:56 AM EDT

Quoted:
It's hard to do, even when you know it's right.  Maybe you saved somebody, or at least saved the company money down the road.  Don't forget to be on alert in case he goes postal.



We put him on a plane going out of state within 24 hours but you are right being alert.

Camp we do test for alcohol too.  Annual testing- bunch of stuff including drugs and alcohol, random testing drugs and alcohol, and after accident testing drugs and alcohol.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:42:36 AM EDT

Quoted:

But campy, alcohol is not a 100% illegal drug like pot.  You can be illegal with alcohol if you drive or hurt someone, but there is no circumstance in which you can be high on pot and not break the law.    


It is NOT "Corporate America's" job to enforce the laws.
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:47:49 AM EDT
JimBeam

Sounds normal to me. Rules are rules. If you look at things in a black and white or go/no go sense, the guy failed to follow the rules. If you had done anything but fire him, you would have not been doing your job, and subject to termination also.

Don't read shades of gray into things and you'll be fine. You did right.

I have almost 180 employees that work for me. I don't fire them for personal reasons, its business. Hell I like most of the folks that work here, but that still doesn't stop me from firing them if they break the rules. They ( all the employees) know this is how I work and respect me for it. It's called integrity............


Stick to your guns and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.....

archer2
Link Posted: 10/29/2004 10:47:56 AM EDT

Quoted:
JimBeam,

LEGAL drugs can also affect performance, as much or worse than pot.  I took a soma prescribed because of a back injury Monday and feel like I got slapped by the happy clown.  I'm glad I was home at the time.



I agree.  If someone was taking a legal drug that caused work problemsw e would probably put them in the office.  I was on pain meds a few years ago and worked in the office till I stopped taking them.  
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