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Posted: 10/27/2013 3:07:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 3:11:28 AM EST by steyr__scout]
I was reading this and it got me wondering.

I'm happily employed and I don't have any HR experience; I'm just curious. Also, I'm not a veteran. Please don't take this thread the wrong way if you are one.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:09:59 AM EST
It never hurt me as far as I know, I think it may have helped in fact.

If a company felt that way though, I sure would not want to work for them, whether I was a veteran or not. Idiots.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:12:34 AM EST
More often than not, it actually helps.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:24:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 46and2:
More often than not, it actually helps.
View Quote

I'm a hr consultant and I've visited many many HR departments and I've never seen a hint of anti-veteran bias


Many folks have someone in their family that was or is in the military
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:33:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 46and2:
More often than not, it actually helps.
View Quote

Not HR, but I help with interviews for my team. If anything, I would rather have a vet than not. We also seem to attract a bit of former LE as well.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:48:11 AM EST
It's usually a benefit but I can see how it could be a negative.

EX: A guy (veteran) has an argument with co-worker. HR or management asks him about his mental state and suggest he get screened for PTSD instead of focusing on conflict resolution.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:48:42 AM EST
When I owned my company; prior service folks sent to the head of the line.

I guess that 'military experience' was discriminated for --not against.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:50:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 3:55:09 AM EST by zegermanznew]
Yes, I discriminate.

(4 years ago)
I just finished hiring my twelve man crew. I was told not to hire any more, 12 was it.

Well, this guy in his late twenties walks into the shop and asks if were hiring. I asked, any prior roofing or electrical experience? He said no.

I asked, what have you been doing the last two years? He smiled and said, I've been in Iraq with the 10th Mountain; just got home 3 days ago.



I looked him square in the eyes for a few seconds, trying to get a good read on him. After about 5 seconds I extended my hand to shake his, and said thanks for your service, welcome home and congratulations, your hired. Just like that, two questions, less than a minute.



I caught hell from my higher-ups for hiring 13, I knew I would but, meh. I justified it by telling them at least one of them won't make the cut, and of course they didn't, so we moved along seamlessly and I looked like a genius. Karma I suppose.

The crew has since separated, the company bought and merged and bought and merged, but the guy Im talking about is still in the same industry, doing very well. (As am I) We are very close friends now, and go shooting together quite frequently, despite the fact we work at different companies now.

He often thanked me for sticking my neck out for him, said I changed his life and he wondered frequently where he would be had he not walked in that day. I would always just thank him back for his service, and assure him it is the decisions HE made in HIS life that got him where he is today. I was just happy to be a part of it.




"A life is not important, except in its effect on other lives." - Jackie Robinson
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:01:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 4:01:52 AM EST by Tactical_Bacon]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zegermanznew:
Yes, I discriminate.

(4 years ago)
I just finished hiring my twelve man crew. I was told not to hire any more, 12 was it.

Well, this guy in his late twenties walks into the shop and asks if were hiring. I asked, any prior roofing or electrical experience? He said no.

I asked, what have you been doing the last two years? He smiled and said, I've been in Iraq with the 10th Mountain; just got home 3 days ago.



I looked him square in the eyes for a few seconds, trying to get a good read on him. After about 5 seconds I extended my hand to shake his, and said thanks for your service, welcome home and congratulations, your hired. Just like that, two questions, less than a minute.



I caught hell from my higher-ups for hiring 13, I knew I would but, meh. I justified it by telling them at least one of them won't make the cut, and of course they didn't, so we moved along seamlessly and I looked like a genius. Karma I suppose.

The crew has since separated, the company bought and merged and bought and merged, but the guy Im talking about is still in the same industry, doing very well. (As am I) We are very close friends now, and go shooting together quite frequently, despite the fact we work at different companies now.

He often thanked me for sticking my neck out for him, said I changed his life and he wondered frequently where he would be had he not walked in that day. I would always just thank him back for his service, and assure him it is the decisions HE made in HIS life that got him where he is today. I was just happy to be a part of it.




"A life is not important, except in its effect on other lives." - Jackie Robinson
View Quote
Thank You.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:06:29 AM EST
I had to explain to a girl in HR that being 100% disabled from the military did not mean that the person could not do hard physical labor.

Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:14:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2013 4:18:11 AM EST by bjkb1f]
Opposite here. My firm has a recruiting team dedicated to vets. Just the other day I interviewed a guy specifically because he was a vet. His resume was not as good as others I looked at, but I figured as a vet, he would be hard working and willing to learn whatever was needed. Ultimately, there was another candidate who was a better fit, but I wanted to be sure we gave the guy a chance, when if his resume had not included military service I would not have given it a second look.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:15:21 AM EST
In the past vets got free points on tests for like the post office etc. When I hired if all things were equal, I hired the vet because I knew he was used to doing what he was told.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:26:03 AM EST
Maybe the chick in the article just moved to the wrong "husband's home town" in Texas for "analyst" jobs?

Virtually every, single client or colleague I have is ex-military, they have never complained of an "anti" bias. In fact, most semi-gloat about the ease with which they can shift jobs or sectors because of their military experience.

There may be a LOT of ex-military who are trying to fit their round peg skill set into a square hole civi job, too. Even in the federal goverment GIS sector there's a whole bunch of jobs I can think of that look a little like private sector jobs but would leave an applicant wholly unprepared to actually perform in such a setting.

I dunno, one article doesn't really lead me to believe the problem is systemic, based on my own hiring experiences and anecdotal evidence.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:28:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NRA2:
In the past vets got free points on tests for like the post office etc. When I hired if all things were equal, I hired the vet because I knew he was used to doing what he was told.
View Quote


Yeah that's true. I knew a couple of vets that got hired by the local post office that could barely read, could not read or use a ruler, could not read a very simple blue print, etc. and were generally as dumb as a bag of rocks...... they got hired over guys that were MUCH smarter.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:37:20 AM EST
I am not an HR person however, I have had a hand in hiring here and there.

My answer would be no.

Since this has never been for a government job or one that gives "points" to vets if a more qualified person exists then they might get the job over a veteran who isn't as qualified.

My experience with vets especially in a position of leadership has been very good. We have an employee right now who was a complete goof off. A few folks though it was because he was in the Army and had an IED incident. I scoffed at it and said give him more responsibility. They did and this employee went from being a complete screw up to actually doing very well. He was bored in his former position and needed more to do. At my last job the two guys that worked for me on a regular basis and I would not give up were former AF and a Marine. I wanted to hire another employee (an ARFcommer and Marine) but my boss screwed that up.

Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:44:15 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zegermanznew:
Yes, I discriminate.

(4 years ago)
I just finished hiring my twelve man crew. I was told not to hire any more, 12 was it.

Well, this guy in his late twenties walks into the shop and asks if were hiring. I asked, any prior roofing or electrical experience? He said no.

I asked, what have you been doing the last two years? He smiled and said, I've been in Iraq with the 10th Mountain; just got home 3 days ago.



I looked him square in the eyes for a few seconds, trying to get a good read on him. After about 5 seconds I extended my hand to shake his, and said thanks for your service, welcome home and congratulations, your hired. Just like that, two questions, less than a minute.



I caught hell from my higher-ups for hiring 13, I knew I would but, meh. I justified it by telling them at least one of them won't make the cut, and of course they didn't, so we moved along seamlessly and I looked like a genius. Karma I suppose.

The crew has since separated, the company bought and merged and bought and merged, but the guy Im talking about is still in the same industry, doing very well. (As am I) We are very close friends now, and go shooting together quite frequently, despite the fact we work at different companies now.

He often thanked me for sticking my neck out for him, said I changed his life and he wondered frequently where he would be had he not walked in that day. I would always just thank him back for his service, and assure him it is the decisions HE made in HIS life that got him where he is today. I was just happy to be a part of it.




"A life is not important, except in its effect on other lives." - Jackie Robinson
View Quote



Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:46:20 AM EST
Current reservist, so not technically a vet. Some hiring managers don't like the idea of having to share you one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer for "this military crap, because that's what it is."

Fuck that guy.

I get the idea that big corporations like to hire military/vets and the smaller companies not so much.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:50:39 AM EST
in finance industry? hell yes there is. it's high paced, stressful, and can get very personal. a vet is going to be the exact opposite of a lackey, which isn't desirable to them.

plus they are afraid of saying the wrong thing and then getting killed for it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:50:58 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dipper:


Yeah that's true. I knew a couple of vets that got hired by the local post office that could barely read, could not read or use a ruler, could not read a very simple blue print, etc. and were generally as dumb as a bag of rocks...... they got hired over guys that were MUCH smarter.
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Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By NRA2:
In the past vets got free points on tests for like the post office etc. When I hired if all things were equal, I hired the vet because I knew he was used to doing what he was told.


Yeah that's true. I knew a couple of vets that got hired by the local post office that could barely read, could not read or use a ruler, could not read a very simple blue print, etc. and were generally as dumb as a bag of rocks...... they got hired over guys that were MUCH smarter.

You know, I hate to point out the elephant in the room here but, there it is.

Simply *being* a vet doesn't, necessarily, elevate a person beyond their natural abilities. I have known many very smart, adaptable and driven vets. I have met more than a few who were dumber than a bag of hair and to whom I wouldn't entrust a job requiring much more responsibility than swapping urinal pucks.

It's a mixed bag and it's certainly not universal, either way.

It's entirely possible, if you're a vet having trouble finding a job, you simply suck and your vet status isn't enough of a boost to get an employer past that glaringly obvious (in some cases) fact..
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 4:59:35 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DTIguy:
Current reservist, so not technically a vet. Some hiring managers don't like the idea of having to share you one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer for "this military crap, because that's what it is."

Fuck that guy.

I get the idea that big corporations like to hire military/vets and the smaller companies not so much.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote


This was back around 1990 when I was in the Army Reserve I had a guy who I know didn't hire me due to being in the Reserves for an electrician apprenticeship. Took his test and aced it due to the fact I repaired electronics for Uncle Sam. At the last part of the interview he asked me if I was still in the Reserves and how much time it took up. When I told him one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year he just said "Oh" in the same way you would if Ted Bundy introduced himself as your daughter's new boyfriend. The interview had been going great, he's cracking jokes and we clearly had rapport going, but it ended right after that. I received a letter thanking me for applying but someone else was given the job.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 5:05:48 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 46and2:
More often than not, it actually helps.
View Quote


This. I'd say about half our engineering dept. is former Navy.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 5:06:13 AM EST
Been on many hiring committees, everything from engineering management positions to technical personnel... Military was looked at like any other experience and judged based on its relevance to the job.

Whether positive or negative was based on its presentation.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 5:07:27 AM EST
i am a hiring manager in medical sales, i get a mix of weird and socially awkward ones - no different than non-vets
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 5:24:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tarfin:


This was back around 1990 when I was in the Army Reserve I had a guy who I know didn't hire me due to being in the Reserves for an electrician apprenticeship. Took his test and aced it due to the fact I repaired electronics for Uncle Sam. At the last part of the interview he asked me if I was still in the Reserves and how much time it took up. When I told him one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year he just said "Oh" in the same way you would if Ted Bundy introduced himself as your daughter's new boyfriend. The interview had been going great, he's cracking jokes and we clearly had rapport going, but it ended right after that. I received a letter thanking me for applying but someone else was given the job.
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Originally Posted By tarfin:
Originally Posted By DTIguy:
Current reservist, so not technically a vet. Some hiring managers don't like the idea of having to share you one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer for "this military crap, because that's what it is."

Fuck that guy.

I get the idea that big corporations like to hire military/vets and the smaller companies not so much.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


This was back around 1990 when I was in the Army Reserve I had a guy who I know didn't hire me due to being in the Reserves for an electrician apprenticeship. Took his test and aced it due to the fact I repaired electronics for Uncle Sam. At the last part of the interview he asked me if I was still in the Reserves and how much time it took up. When I told him one weekend a month and 2 weeks a year he just said "Oh" in the same way you would if Ted Bundy introduced himself as your daughter's new boyfriend. The interview had been going great, he's cracking jokes and we clearly had rapport going, but it ended right after that. I received a letter thanking me for applying but someone else was given the job.


I'm pretty sure asking questions about reserve obligations during an interview is illegal. If you can't make time for some very petty obligations, I'd rather not work for you in the first place. Like I said, every interview I've had with big companies they either avoid bringing up military involvement or look at it favorably because they actually understand USERRA and know the company is getting a tax credit.

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Link Posted: 10/27/2013 5:26:47 AM EST
I don't think most vets would like to feel like they were hired for tax credit reasons.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 5:29:19 AM EST
My company prefers to hire vets, and we operate a training program (Battlefields to Oilfields) where we train vets using their GI Bill and help place them in various oilfield jobs across the industry. While some people might not like to hire vets, I think as a whole employers prefer them as they are usually more disciplined and harder working than your average college kid or high school graduate.
Link Posted: 10/27/2013 3:17:38 PM EST
mixed bag i'd say..
old boss was IS military (guard). we got along the first time I met him, literally had walked in after where I was working one day, talked to him all joe shlubbed out, but shook his hand and we hit it off.. I worked the hardest I've ever worked for that guy for 3 years until he left. we had a great time too. but because he was MIL. he knew about mil shit bleeding into civi employment: training classes, orders, additional drills, and it never was an issue as far a having to take off.

new boss, is a civi..says they support vets, but will walk a razor thin line when it comes to letting me off for duty, training classes, addtl, required training not on drill or 2 week AT. they'll bitch a blue streak about it. had to use PTO because I hadn't accrued enough time in the company to use vacation for REQUIRED training outside of MUTAs and AT. still pissed about that.

If I was a supervisor or an important lynch pin, I might understand.. but a support monkey? PLEASE.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:24:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:29:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 46and2:
More often than not, it actually helps.
View Quote


I didn't get a job flying a corporate jet soley based on, "that guy was a sniper in Iraq. I don't want some crazy murdurer flying me around."
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:31:53 PM EST
Haven't seen anything anti-veteran. I have seen anti-reservist sentiment though in different workforce settings, private and government.

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Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:33:12 PM EST
Not in my industry....oilfield trash loves our Vets....

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:36:23 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 46and2:
More often than not, it actually helps.
View Quote


I'm not HR but I work with HR during the hiring process and this has been my experience.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:37:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:



Sup...
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Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Originally Posted By steyr__scout:
I was reading this and it got me wondering.

I'm happily employed and I don't have any HR experience; I'm just curious. Also, I'm not a veteran. Please don't take this thread the wrong way if you are one.



Sup...


OH SNAP!!

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:39:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 2:46:00 PM EST by Miles_Urbanus]
The industries which are dominated by liberals who are the most likely to show bias against veterans are not well represented amongst Arfcommers.

My dad is is a retired Navy Captain (O-6, 30 years) and MD. He had a hard time finding positions at many university run hospitals. He was literally told they didn't want him yelling at other doctors and nurses in his department. I have watched HR peoples eyes glaze over when I explain my jargon free military experience.

There is some bias against vets in our society. It is not pervasive or popular but it exists. The pendulum was swinging the other way in 1968 and it was much more in the open.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:41:29 PM EST
Being a veteran GOT me a job, and a start in the industry I have worked in for almost 20 years.

I had zero experience, but the office manager was a 4F type who had a little bromance thing going for veterans.

Hey, as long as I didn't have to do anything but my job and tell him the occasional "I was there" story, I was willing.

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:44:16 PM EST
Interviewed for a Probation Officer job one time; two HR people interviewing me. One was a woman and one was a man. The woman asked me about my military experience and what my job was; as soon as I said I was in the Infantry, the man got a disgusted look on his face and he completely shut down for the rest of the interview that lasted another 30mins or so. I think he said two sentences once I said I was in the Infantry. Didn't get the job but I wanted to punch that fuckin dickface's face in.

My only experience with it being a negative. Everywhere else is like, "Omg, that's awesome! Thank you for serving!" but I also live in central/conservative KS so that helps.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:52:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 2:54:15 PM EST by Paulie771]
The industry I'm in (class I railroad) actively recruit vets/military. There's a team in corporate whose sole job is to get vets hired. I think the company I work for is approaching 1/3rd total employees that are either current or former military.

So I'd say it's industry specific.

Seriously, if you're vet and don't mind being outdoors or hard work, keep an eye out every week (most jobs are only posted for 5 days) on your nearest Class I's career page.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:53:57 PM EST
In my little world, most definitely not.

I hired my shop supervisor and my general manager, both vets and both great employees. Now if I could just clone them.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:54:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 2:57:32 PM EST by combatcanin08]
I worked for a company that said they liked to hire mil folks.

But the manager at our facility did not see it that way and would openly bad mouth those employs.

As for hiring them I go by there demeanor and the way the speak and act during interviews.

like every one some are good some are not so good.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 2:54:48 PM EST
It's never hurt me.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:01:43 PM EST
i've seen it happen. guy who is out here with me right now got let go from a police department due to his deployment. it was more than obvious, but difficult to prove still without anything on paper saying as much. last i heard it was still being investigated. what will come of it i don't know. i've also had a higher up in another police department tell me that some departments in his area simply won't hire those in the National Guard or Reserves due to so many deployments.

how rampant it is, with police departments or otherwise, i really don't know. again, its something that is very hard to prove.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:06:01 PM EST
As a person who makes decisions, it is a plus. Punctuality, work ethic and attendance is usually much better with vets. Had one that was a sorry ass, but he was the exception.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:06:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WTProtector:
Not in my industry....oilfield trash loves our Vets....

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Pretty much this
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:09:07 PM EST
I am a veteran and if it were me as the HR guy veterans wouldn't necessarily get a free pass. Just because a guy says/was a service member doesn't mean he was the stellar performer and worked 100% and then some, and then went to church on Sundays. Like anything else I would ask to see some paper, proof of a commendatory history, perhaps some references from his last command. I lost money due to a Sergeant of Marines, a person/rank who prior in my mind should be a measuring stick of performance. In fact being prior military (especially a Marine) I know precisely what to ask and look for so there is no BSing me.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:10:11 PM EST

Not HR, but I have done a lot of hiring. Due to some health issues I never served. I always figured the way I could pay that back was give a vet the benefit of a doubt if given a chance, this includes hiring. At very least they tend to be somewhat driven and dependable. They tend to understand "I don't have time to explain, but I need this done ASAP." The downside is the last vet I hired I have to keep telling him to chill out a bit.

Then again I worked at a place where the boss would only hire people if he thought they could drink as much as the rest of the team. He had serious issues. Then again we used to have quarterly business meetings at the strip club.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:10:24 PM EST
I think it cuts both ways. I'm pretty sure I got my last job because I was a vet and I think it helped me get into school....BUT there were both schools and jobs that I was actually more qualified for than were I ended up that seemed to shut me down immediately...and it made me a little suspicious. Overall I think it is a plus.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:11:38 PM EST
My only problem is this:

A lot of my co-workers are guard/reserve. Cop shop runs 24/7/365. When they are gone to drill, it puts an incredible strain on those of us not guard/reserve. On top of that, they receive their regular pay on top of their G/R duty time (when it falls on days they work). My opinion is that, if they want that second job/income, they should have to balance it the same way the rest of us have to balance our second jobs. Either adjust schedules or take vacation time.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:11:38 PM EST
I have a problem with it from a .gov mandated stand point but if a private business wants to give preference to whom ever they want than by all means.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:19:16 PM EST
I'm a vet, my boss is retired Army and he (not me) tossed a guy at the resume stage because we knew (internal candidate) that the guy had been acitivated the last two years and was likely to get activated again. I spoke up but in the end there's no way to find your way through to hire someone that is likely to walk in the door and right back again for who know's how long. Its futile. I need people on the job. It was a very conflicting situation that I didn't enjoy.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:21:12 PM EST
We hire as many vets as we can get to take the jobs. They are no different from other folks, some work out, some don't. It seems that retired vets or vets that served 8+ years are better suited to the job than the 4 and out guys. That being said, it makes no difference how long they served, if they can stay awake through the interview, they get a job.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:22:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By lucky_13:
We hire as many vets as we can get to take the jobs. They are no different from other folks, some work out, some don't. It seems that retired vets or vets that served 8+ years are better suited to the job than the 4 and out guys. That being said, it makes no difference how long they served, if they can stay awake through the interview, they get a job.
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You had a candidate fall asleep during an interview?
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