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Posted: 10/12/2004 2:55:47 PM EST
First off, anyone own one?
From all the reviews I have been able to find online, it sounds like a good target gun for the money.
Supposed to be very accurate out of the box, and I like the looks of it.

So here is the question...for those that have them...I have only seen them chambered in .223 (as opposed to 5.56)...Now, I fully understand that the caliber stamped on the barrel is what should be loaded into the gun...I understand the safety implications of now folllowing the recommendation...but...for a rifle like this, exactly what would be the difference between the two calibers? If you have seen one up close....the chamber is a big, beefy, heavy steel chamber....fronting a very heavy bull barrel. The additional blast of the 5.56 cant possibly be an issue in this rifle....or am I just an idiot for suggesting this?

In a perfect world...I can buy a 1500...and shoot the Q3131A that I already can get by the case for cheap. I know that quality factory .223.......or handloads will get me better groups...but this is purely a recreation rifle.....just want a fun shooter that can get MOA at 100 Yards consistently.

Please share your thought and experiences .....

and here is the rifle for those that arent familiar with it...
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:06:07 PM EST
I own two Howa's, one in .270 Win and the other in .300 Win Mag. The .270 is an absolute tackdriver, the 300 used to be a tackdriver but I shot the barrel out and needs a new one. The Howa's are extremely well made, the bolt is one-piece - no brazed handle, they take Remington scope bases.

I wouldn't chance firing 5.56 in it though, all it takes is the pressure to shoot thru the roof and even a bolt gun is going to give. No need to join the Kaboom club!

If really want it, get it, then take it to a good gunsmith to rechamber it to a Wylde chamber , then you will be good to go.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:17:48 PM EST
Gun question? WTF? How does this affect the election or the WOT? Get a life and post this on some gun websight!

CW
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:33:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
Gun question? WTF? How does this affect the election or the WOT? Get a life and post this on some gun websight!

CW



I will answer that...

If affects the election in that I will vote for the president that helped to facilitate the end of the AWB.....

It affects the WOT....as this would be the rifle I would use for long range tactical shots in the event that the SHTF.....it completes the range......40S&W for out to 25 yards....M4 for standing shots out to 200....and a nice tactical rifle for past 200.

Also, I just found another article that reviewed the 1500 as a .223/5.56NATO (just like it reads on my AR barrels! There may be hope.

ANyone got a 1500? How is the barrel marked? (I gotta call these folks tomorrow)
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 3:36:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By macro:

Originally Posted By Cold_Warrior:
Gun question? WTF? How does this affect the election or the WOT? Get a life and post this on some gun websight!

CW



I will answer that...

If affects the election in that I will vote for the president that helped to facilitate the end of the AWB.....

It affects the WOT....as this would be the rifle I would use for long range tactical shots in the event that the SHTF.....it completes the range......40S&W for out to 25 yards....M4 for standing shots out to 200....and a nice tactical rifle for past 200.

Also, I just found another article that reviewed the 1500 as a .223/5.56NATO (just like it reads on my AR barrels! There may be hope.

ANyone got a 1500? How is the barrel marked? (I gotta call these folks tomorrow)



It should read .223 Remington.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:13:34 PM EST
I have a SS 1500 in 223. It's a nice little gun, accurate, and was inexpensive. The rate of twist, however, is either 1/12 or 1/14 (don't remember at the moment), so it is only suitable for light bullets. Varmint loads (40gr) shoot very well.



Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:16:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:21:37 PM EST
I have a 1500 in 22-250 and it is an excellent shooter. As far as the 5.56 I'd say shoot 223 ammo unless rechambered in Wylde as eodtech2000 stated. I have a couple ARs that are Wylde chambered and they are awesome shooters.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:21:49 PM EST
DavidC or HiramRanger,

Were either of yours marked for 5.56, or were they exclusively .223 ?
What kind of groups could I expect from bulk ammo?
Also....should I assume that the Q3131A is out of the question? (or other surplus type 5.56 ammo?)

thanks
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:23:24 PM EST
I wouldnt hesitate shooting 5.56 in it I have shot 5.56 in 223 guns for years no problems any modern bolt gun chambered for 223 is m ade stronger than the brass casing is, the casing will go before the gun will
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:35:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:46:53 PM EST
Just shot 223 from it. You could proabably shoot surplus 55gr stuff.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 4:58:37 PM EST
PLEASE, just ONE documented case of a kaboom due to shooting 5.56 NATO in a .223 Remington rifle.

Just one.

Anyone?

Class?

Class?

Buehler?
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:19:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
PLEASE, just ONE documented case of a kaboom due to shooting 5.56 NATO in a .223 Remington rifle.

Just one.

Anyone?

Class?

Class?

Buehler?



Your born with 2 eyes, 10 fingers, and a intact skull, why tempt fate. Mr. Murphy is always on the lookout for individuals to wreak havoc on who don't abide by safety rules.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:25:29 PM EST
I might be missing something here, but I don't think so. The last time I checked .223 and 5.56mm were the same animal. So as far as it would concern me, if the barrell is marked ".223" I would shoot 5.56mm out of it as well.

Just my $.02 worth
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 5:28:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 5:36:05 PM EST by eodtech2000]

Originally Posted By colesteele:
I might be missing something here, but I don't think so. The last time I checked .223 and 5.56mm were the same animal. So as far as it would concern me, if the barrell is marked ".223" I would shoot 5.56mm out of it as well.

Just my $.02 worth



They are similar but not the same, the throat for one is different for the 5.56mm.

Here is the scoope on it.
www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm]www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 7:14:48 PM EST
I don’t have a Howa.

However, I’ve shot quite a bit of mil-spec 5.56 in an AR with a commercial .223 chamber (and I’m still alive to tell the story!).

My experience was that by and large, everything worked OK. However, every once in a while a round would get stuck in the chamber or would blow a primer.

In addition to the above, I suspect with a bolt gun you might have a problem with a hard to open bolt.

I wouldn’t be afraid to try it, but I’d stop if I started having problems.

Definitely wear eye protection when trying this.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:12:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I wouldnt hesitate shooting 5.56 in it I have shot 5.56 in 223 guns for years no problems any modern bolt gun chambered for 223 is m ade stronger than the brass casing is, the casing will go before the gun will



Here's a top secret nobody else knows.........................

It's the same fucking thing go ahead shoot 5.56 through it.

It's the same.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 8:36:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I wouldnt hesitate shooting 5.56 in it I have shot 5.56 in 223 guns for years no problems any modern bolt gun chambered for 223 is m ade stronger than the brass casing is, the casing will go before the gun will



Here's a top secret nobody else knows.........................

It's the same fucking thing go ahead shoot 5.56 through it.

It's the same.



It's close, but not the same. If there are ever any questions, consult the Oracle: The AR15 Ammunition Oracle
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:00:54 PM EST
I know nothing about the dfference between .223 and 5.56 BUT, I was reading somewhere on AR15.com the other day and a person stated that they shot .38 ammo in a 9mm or visa versa. That sounded risky to me. I could just see a bullet bouncing around in the barrel before it exited the muzzel.
Link Posted: 10/12/2004 10:13:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2004 10:17:24 PM EST by GodBlessTexas]

Originally Posted By Mr_Jimmy_Fly:
I know nothing about the dfference between .223 and 5.56 BUT, I was reading somewhere on AR15.com the other day and a person stated that they shot .38 ammo in a 9mm or visa versa. That sounded risky to me. I could just see a bullet bouncing around in the barrel before it exited the muzzel.



I believe the issue with the 9mm and .38 is chamber size and not bullet diameter.

As for my take on it, there are people who shoot 5.56 NATO in a .223 Remington chamber. I've never heard of anything bad happening to them first hand. If I had a bolt gun chambered in .223 Remington, I'd only shoot .223 out of it. A 5.56 NATO chambered rifle doesn't have an issues firing .223, but that doesn't necessarily work shooting .223 in a 5.56 NATO chamber.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:01:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By GodBlessTexas:

Originally Posted By Mr_Jimmy_Fly:
I know nothing about the dfference between .223 and 5.56 BUT, I was reading somewhere on AR15.com the other day and a person stated that they shot .38 ammo in a 9mm or visa versa. That sounded risky to me. I could just see a bullet bouncing around in the barrel before it exited the muzzel.



I believe the issue with the 9mm and .38 is chamber size and not bullet diameter.

As for my take on it, there are people who shoot 5.56 NATO in a .223 Remington chamber. I've never heard of anything bad happening to them first hand. If I had a bolt gun chambered in .223 Remington, I'd only shoot .223 out of it. A 5.56 NATO chambered rifle doesn't have an issues firing .223, but that doesn't necessarily work shooting .223 in a 5.56 NATO chamber.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas.



I know what you mean, but your last sentence says the same thing. I would not worry about shooting either in a bolt gun chambered for either.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:06:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mr_Jimmy_Fly:
I know nothing about the dfference between .223 and 5.56 BUT, I was reading somewhere on AR15.com the other day and a person stated that they shot .38 ammo in a 9mm or visa versa. That sounded risky to me. I could just see a bullet bouncing around in the barrel before it exited the muzzel.



You can't shoot .38 spl or .357 mag (.357 diameter bullets in a pistol chambered for 9mm.
But the bullets used to load 9mm or .380 ammo (.356 diameter) could probably be used to load .38 spl or .357 mag if you knew what you were doing. Not enough difference to cuss a cat.
.380 ammo will also fire in a 9mm, but don't do it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:19:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 7:35:06 PM EST by 444slayer]
I wouldn't worry about shooting 5.56 ammo in a .223 marked gun. At worst you will get high pressure signs, at which point I would cease and desist, but it is NOT going to blow the gun up.

I do believe that when you reload military brass you should work up from a lower load, due to the brass having less water capacity than commercial brass. I just bought 1000 rds. of American Eagle and Wolf, or I would glady buy some 5.56 ammo and be the guinea pig. I have a Weatherby/Howa .223 and Savage 110FP tactical.

I think I may have some 5.56 tracers. If I do, I am shooting some tomorrow.

Edit: I started to add this, so now I will:
WARNING. You may not have the same experiences. I do not recommend this practice. If you blow your gun up and your head off, don't blame me.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:31:02 PM EST
I have a Howa 1500 in .223 Rem. It's a great gun.

The 5.56x45mm NATO chamber has a more gradual leade than the .223 Rem. In addition, many claim that 5.56x45mm military ammo is loaded hotter than .223 Rem. ammo.

Theoretically, the hotter ammo in a chamber with a more abrupt leade can cause excessive pressure, which lead to the SAAMI warning about shooting military ammo in the commercial chamber.

The Howa 1500 has a 1/12 twist, which is perfect for the 55 grain bullet (which is all that I shoot).

Having said all the above, I shoot M193 ball in my Howa all the time. I also load M193 ball to the same velocity as military ball, using mostly H335 (but also AA2230C and WC844). I have never had any problems that I attributed to excessive pressure because of this...

I also shoot these same loads in a Rem. 788 and a Savage 112FV, and in my ARs...

WARNING. You may not have the same experiences. I do not recommend this practice. If you blow your gun up and your head off, don't blame me.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:32:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mr_Jimmy_Fly:
I know nothing about the dfference between .223 and 5.56 BUT, I was reading somewhere on AR15.com the other day and a person stated that they shot .38 ammo in a 9mm or visa versa. That sounded risky to me. I could just see a bullet bouncing around in the barrel before it exited the muzzel.



Ruger made a SP101 that can fire 38 Special and 9 MM. 38 Special uses a .357 diameter bullet and 9 MM uses a .355 diameter bullet, a bullet will not bounce around in a barrel with only .002 difference in diameter.
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