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Posted: 1/8/2005 11:38:42 AM EDT
I met up this morning with members GlockLuvinRedLeg and BatMasterson for a little shooting.

Once the initial B.S. session was out of the way we got serious about yanking some triggers. I pulled out my AR18 and went through 3 or 4 mags with no problems. On the next mag, I pulled the charging handle back and when I released it, the SHTF. The gun just started spraying rounds downrange. HOLY SHIT! It dumped most of the magazine before it finally jammed. That was a scary couple of seconds. Thank God it was pointed downrange. Safe rules of gun handling saved my bacon.

Inspection of the lower shows that the hammer is not locking back. Apparently the hammer is following the bolt carrier home and basically slam firing. Now to go look for a picture of a hammer. I think mine is broke, just need a picture to confirm.

Runaway gun...........not something I care to repeat anytime soon.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:42:31 AM EDT
Wow that was scary. I had a gun that doubled or tripled once. I had to replace the major parts of the fire control system.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:42:36 AM EDT
It's good thing that you had the presence of mind to remain in control and it keep it in a safe direction.

Good work.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:43:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
Runaway gun...........not something I care to repeat anytime soon.



Happened to me on a new AR build.

Somehow, I forgot to install the spring
on the disconnector. Luckily, I always
only load three rounds max when testing
a new gun. The triple was ... unexpected.


Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:44:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 11:44:45 AM EDT by 4v50]
It could also be the spring that activates the secondary sear.  If the AR-18 is anything like the AR-15, it's got a double hook hammer and the rear hook catches onto the secondary sear which holds it in place to prevent the hammer from following the carrier forward.  If the spring is worn or isn't working, the secondary sear fails to engage the hammer's rear hook.  (Forgive me if my terminology isn't right).

BTW, good gun handling & I'm glad no one was hurt.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:45:44 AM EDT
Try it on a Mark 19 when firing it free traverse  Immediate action is sit down, shut up, hang on...unlike most other beltfeds where you can break the belt.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:46:23 AM EDT
Before I knew better - I put grease on the hooks of the hammer on one of my Garands.

Surprise 3 shot bursts with 30/06 are a wee bit on the ouchy side.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:49:37 AM EDT
Hmm...another problem with the AR's?  

Glad to hear everyone was safe though.  Were there any people around?  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:53:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 11:54:31 AM EDT by warlord]

Originally Posted By SWS:
It's good thing that you had the presence of mind to remain in control and it keep it in a safe direction.


A few years back, an armourer for the Orange County, Calif Sheriffs was killed because of a illegally converted and confiscated runaway Mac10, the gun kept firing after he let go of the trigger but it kept firing, and came around and killed him.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:54:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 11:56:13 AM EDT by thecleaner]
damn i was at "the pit" last week (i assume that's where you were at).  i would've loved to have seen your 18. anyway, did ya figure out what the problem was? (i mean, you sure its the hammer)
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:58:13 AM EDT
I have never had one run away yet on me, lucky.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:00:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Try it on a Mark 19 when firing it free traverse  Immediate action is sit down, shut up, hang on...unlike most other beltfeds where you can break the belt.  



That will so be my luck while qualifying on it during MP school.

Hell....my luck, Im gonna be the kid that throws the pin and drops the frag during BCT.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:00:59 PM EDT
We were out at the Kilo ranges at Lejeune and one of the medium helo squadrons was there for their quals. The had 4 M249s that they had to run a few thousands rounds through. I guess they didn't want to clean all four so they only shot two. One had a new guy who was actually qual'ing on it. The other was just the hose to waste the ammo allotment through. After a few belts it started to run away. The just kept linking ammo on and letting it roll to blow throughh the ammo. Fun to watch.


Ona side note they also had a helo door mock up on a trailer with a mini-gun on it and were qual'ing that too. That was a blast to watch. The noise and sheer volume of lead it throws was trully awsome.

They ran all their guya through and then let some of the SNCO with the platoon I was attached to. Everyone took about a thousand rounds or so (about 10 seconds worth.) I was next on line and the Staff Sgt ahead of me hogs the f'ing thing until it runs dry( a good thirty seconds worth of firing.)

"Sorry doc, I guess I just got carried away."

And no way were they loading another tray up.





I still hate him to this day, and will for the rest of my life.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:01:50 PM EDT
I hope you get that jamming problem fixed.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:07:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

Originally Posted By SWS:
It's good thing that you had the presence of mind to remain in control and it keep it in a safe direction.


A few years back, an armourer for the Orange County, Calif Sheriffs was killed because of a illegally converted and confiscated runaway Mac10, the gun kept firing after he let go of the trigger but it kept firing, and came around and killed him.



They are right after all. Guns do kill people!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:08:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sherm8404:
We were out at the Kilo ranges at Lejeune and one of the medium helo squadrons was there for their quals. The had 4 M249s that they had to run a few thousands rounds through. I guess they didn't want to clean all four so they only shot two. One had a new guy who was actually qual'ing on it. The other was just the hose to waste the ammo allotment through. After a few belts it started to run away. The just kept linking ammo on and letting it roll to blow throughh the ammo. Fun to watch.


Ona side note they also had a helo door mock up on a trailer with a mini-gun on it and were qual'ing that too. That was a blast to watch. The noise and sheer volume of lead it throws was trully awsome.

They ran all their guya through and then let some of the SNCO with the platoon I was attached to. Everyone took about a thousand rounds or so (about 10 seconds worth.) I was next on line and the Staff Sgt ahead of me hogs the f'ing thing until it runs dry( a good thirty seconds worth of firing.)

"Sorry doc, I guess I just got carried away."

And no way were they loading another tray up.





I still hate him to this day, and will for the rest of my life.



Bravo Force - they never sleep
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:12:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Before I knew better - I put grease on the hooks of the hammer on one of my Garands.

Surprise 3 shot bursts with 30/06 are a wee bit on the ouchy side.



My M1 did that to me this weekend, but there's no grease on the hammer hooks!!!

It's in the shop as we speak......
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 12:21:02 PM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
Hmm...another problem with the AR's?  

Glad to hear everyone was safe though.  Were there any people around?  




Yep, I'm SURE that could never happen with, say, an XM-8 though, right? Afterall, the metal used in that fine weapon is incapable of wearing out!  What little metal is actually in the gun, that is.



ETA - Glad to hear everything turned out OK, Lumpster!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:28:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Try it on a Mark 19 when firing it free traverse  Immediate action is sit down, shut up, hang on...unlike most other beltfeds where you can break the belt.  



"Luckily" there is "only" 48 rounds in a box of 40mm.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:27:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Try it on a Mark 19 when firing it free traverse  Immediate action is sit down, shut up, hang on...unlike most other beltfeds where you can break the belt.  



That must have been a heck of a ride!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:52:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By limaxray:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Before I knew better - I put grease on the hooks of the hammer on one of my Garands.

Surprise 3 shot bursts with 30/06 are a wee bit on the ouchy side.



My M1 did that to me this weekend, but there's no grease on the hammer hooks!!!

It's in the shop as we speak......



The M1 I used to have did this, also. Again, no grease on the hammer and mine was a 5rd burst. After the burst, the trigger group fell out into the mud on the range. Scary when you're not ready for it! As it turns out, either the disconnector or the hammer, can't remember which now, was worn and the disconnector wasn't catching the hammer.

Bub
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:56:41 PM EDT
Holy crap! I'm glad no one was injured.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:59:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:03:11 PM EDT by gotm4]
Had an M60E3 do that.  Just had to hang on and pretend to be Rambo.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:00:58 PM EDT
Run awayyyyyyy!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:04:19 PM EDT
I have heard of AR's slam firing.  Would the safety ON have prevented that?  I really don't know, just curious.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:08:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:09:09 PM EDT by Sturmwehr]

Originally Posted By txinvestigator:
I have heard of AR's slam firing.  Would the safety ON have prevented that?  I really don't know, just curious.  



No, it's a free floating firing pin. It can still ignite the primer even with the safety on.

That's why I'm an advocate of "don't load until ready to shoot," unless the firearm is being used for quick reaction self-defense.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:09:31 PM EDT
I also had an M1 that occaisionally doubled. Nothing like half a mag though. Wow!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:11:55 PM EDT
I had an M82A1 runaway on me at work one time.  It was kinda cool. 10 rds downrange PDQ.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:24:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sherm8404:
The just kept linking ammo on and letting it roll to blow throughh the ammo.




Yep, because that's SOOOO good for the barrel.


You should've given them the what-for.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:46:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:
I had an M82A1 runaway on me at work one time.  It was kinda cool. 10 rds downrange PDQ.



Was it a reincarnated M2?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:56:03 PM EDT
Had an M60D runaway on me due to a worn sear pin.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:12:43 PM EDT
Well it looks like I am going to get off relatively cheap on this one. The cock notch is broken off my hammer. This was allowing the gun to slamfire.

Thank God nobody got hurt. Sure was a reminder to always keep it pointed in a safe direction.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:17:52 PM EDT
BTDT. Shitty FAL fire control groups and worn M-240G sears will cause similar situations. Takes all the fun out of it when you don't see it coming.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:17:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JSteensen:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Try it on a Mark 19 when firing it free traverse  Immediate action is sit down, shut up, hang on...unlike most other beltfeds where you can break the belt.  



That will so be my luck while qualifying on it during MP school.

Hell....my luck, Im gonna be the kid that throws the pin and drops the frag during BCT.



There's a Drill Sgt in the position with you during the throw to save your bacon if you do such a thing.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:24:57 PM EDT
Glad you had it down range, but still be very careful.  I met a guy at the range that lost a finger to a 1911 that did the exact same thing. He had his left hand on top of the slide and racked it back and it started going off, the recoil ended up lineing the gun up with his left hand fingers and took it off. He didn't even have time to move his left hand out of the way.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:03:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
Well it looks like I am going to get off relatively cheap on this one. The cock notch is broken off my hammer. This was allowing the gun to slamfire.

Thank God nobody got hurt. Sure was a reminder to always keep it pointed in a safe direction.




Good job man, you did good.

I had a M11 go bang one time, and all I did was drop the mag.

Gun was pointed down range.

No one hurt.

It's times like that you have to give yourself a pat on the back for following all the rules.

And glad it was a cheap fix to boot!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:12:05 PM EDT
Run away's are fun

Glad no one was hurt.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:12:06 PM EDT
Damn...that's a "new underwear" moment, eh???
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:28:06 PM EDT
My condolences to your dog.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:14:03 PM EDT
My M-11/9 has run away a couple times, due to worn sear/bolt engagement surfaces. I brief all new shooters that such a malfunction is a possibility, and what to do if it happens (keep pointed downrange, control muzzle climb; it'll be over in a second!).  Hasn't been much of an issue now that the slow-fire conversion is done, but it used to chew through sears pretty frequently.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:32:47 PM EDT
This is unfortunately why some gun ranges put restrictions on how many rounds you can load in a mag. Its pointless i know, for the 0.00001% of guns that malfunction and run away. As always safe handling is the only way to be safe. Good job.  
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:50:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:
The cock notch is broken off my hammer.




Heh heh.......you said "cock."
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:52:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Try it on a Mark 19 when firing it free traverse  Immediate action is sit down, shut up, hang on...unlike most other beltfeds where you can break the belt.  



if you read the -10 for the MK19, actions on runaway for that weapon is to drop one of the charging handles to stop the bolt from going into battery
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