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Posted: 5/7/2004 6:05:33 AM EST
What is/was so special about these guns that made them as expensive as they were/are?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:06:49 AM EST
steyr made a great thread about them, if the search was up i would find it for you
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:12:29 AM EST
They are a wonderfully manufactured, ALL TOOLED STEEL handgun with a fixed barrel, squeeze-cock single-action trigger with a low bore axis. IMHO the finest handgun ever produced by HK. As far as cost is concerned for a factory-manufactured pistol have you ever priced a SIG P210?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:30:58 AM EST
So why'd they stop making them? Not enough sold?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:37:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 6:41:00 AM EST by Duffy]
I used to have a P7M13. I guess it didn't catch on despite its elegant simplicity is because it's so different, users have to be retrained with it. There's no slide release, no safety. When the slide locks to the rear, insert a new mag and squeeze the front strap to release the slide back home. It takes something like 13lb of pressure to first squeeze the front strap but only like a 3 pounds of pressure to keep it there. It's rather unusual also in that it uses a retarded gas sytem with a fixed piston to cycle instead of recoil or blow back. The magazine in the P7M13 is unique as well, in that it's single colume on top but staggered after the first 3 or 4 rounds, ostensibly for improved feeding. I don't see this emulated anywhere else, even in other HK pistols, so I don't think it has much merits to it.
I still regret selling it
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:47:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Duffy:
I used to have a P7M13. I guess it didn't catch on despite its elegant simplicity is because it's so different, users have to be retrained with it. There's no slide release, no safety. When the slide locks to the rear, insert a new mag and squeeze the front strap to release the slide back home. It takes something like 13lb of pressure to first squeeze the front strap but only like a 3 pounds of pressure to keep it there. It's rather unusual also in that it uses a retarded gas sytem with a fixed piston to cycle instead of recoil or blow back. The magazine in the P7M13 is unique as well, in that it's single colume on top but staggered after the first 3 or 4 rounds, ostensibly for improved feeding. I don't see this emulated anywhere else, even in other HK pistols, so I don't think it has much merits to it.
I still regret selling it



So despite all of it's abnormalities, you liked it?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:12:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
So why'd they stop making them? Not enough sold?



Still make them, one of the best handgun designs ever IMHO.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:23:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Duffy:
I used to have a P7M13. I guess it didn't catch on despite its elegant simplicity is because it's so different, users have to be retrained with it. There's no slide release, no safety. When the slide locks to the rear, insert a new mag and squeeze the front strap to release the slide back home. It takes something like 13lb of pressure to first squeeze the front strap but only like a 3 pounds of pressure to keep it there. It's rather unusual also in that it uses a retarded gas sytem with a fixed piston to cycle instead of recoil or blow back. The magazine in the P7M13 is unique as well, in that it's single colume on top but staggered after the first 3 or 4 rounds, ostensibly for improved feeding. I don't see this emulated anywhere else, even in other HK pistols, so I don't think it has much merits to it.
I still regret selling it




I agree that it definately necessary to retrain yourself if you're new to the design, but the same goes with 1911s if you're used to traditional DA/SA handguns. BTW, it does have a safety and slide release, just not in any traditional sense.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:27:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:29:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
So why'd they stop making them? Not enough sold?



They still make them and they cost about $1,400. When search gets back I'll bump the review I did on them.



Why don't they list them on their website anymore?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:33:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:33:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:47:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
This is one of those firearms I have always been interested in but have never had a chance to fire so I am reluctant to cough up $ 1400, particularly for a 9mm pistol; even if it might be the coolest 9mm pistol on the planet.



I would never pay that much for one myself. The used ones hold up really well, so that's the way to go.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:49:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:56:55 AM EST
The HK p7 series is simply the fastest from safe and in the holster to drawn and ready to fire for me.

I've been shooting them since I was a kid and I would never use anything else unless forced to. (Right now I only have a USP but my next p7 is on the way- I'm told).

Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:59:52 AM EST
Wow! She is back!


Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:00:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 9:00:37 AM EST by HKocher]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I don't see used ones around that often.


Probably best to look online. I can't vouch for the condition or quality, but CDNN always seems to have them advertised at 'good' prices.

Not much chance of stumbling upon one at local shops, but who knows, I got a sweet deal on my M10 from a small shop in TX.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:01:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 9:03:56 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:06:03 AM EST
They had a whole bunch of HK P7's available when a police dept. changed their's out (New Jersey?)

I saw one in a dealer's case at a gun show last month. It said LEO only (M13) but he indicated to an interested party that he would sell the gun without the magazine which I assume was legal. Anyway the price was $800, which was pretty common when there were a lot of these on the market.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:17:53 AM EST
Go to Gunsamerica.com and do a search for P7

www.gunsamerica.com/search.cgi


Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:22:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:
The HK p7 series is simply the fastest from safe and in the holster to drawn and ready to fire for me.

I'm curious about that statement - what pistol CAN'T be made be ready to fire within the timespan you cite?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:41:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
The HK p7 series is simply the fastest from safe and in the holster to drawn and ready to fire for me.

I'm curious about that statement - what pistol CAN'T be made be ready to fire within the timespan you cite?



In my experience, any other weapon that requires manipulation of a safety with a thumb or other finger prior to being ready to fire reduces the time my weapon gets on target after drawing. Glocks might be close but their trigger safety mechanism makes me very nervous. I don't like carrying in condition one since I use a thigh holster for CCW. Too likely to get caught in something. I also find that it is the most accurate pistol I have ever fired (probably because of the fixed barrel). Moreover you can beat it to death and it still fires happily. They seem to like to be dirty. I like the redundant extractor as well.

Just the nicest handgun I have fired, and I've fired lots. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 9:45:24 AM EST
Yup! Very well put it and always to the point.

Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:15:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:
...I use a thigh holster for CCW...



Eh? How does that work?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:29:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
...I use a thigh holster for CCW...



Eh? How does that work?



I'll draw you a diagram.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:29:35 AM EST
I use one at work and don't like it. When you've spent your life shooting revolvers, berrettas, smiths and glocks, it's hard to get used to that squeeze cocker. Oh sure, it's OK when you're thinking about squeezing the cocker. However, get in a stress situation, manipulate a flashlight or have to think about one other thing besides cocking, and guess what... You'll be standing there wondering why the fucker aint firing. Unless you plan on exclusive training and use, I'd stay away from this one for self defense. Otherwise, it is very accurate. I'll tell you, our armorer hates it, but he's a buy American type of guy. We have had problems with firing pins getting gummed up and cockers breaking. Ours are second hand, which may be the reason we are experiencing some of the hiccups. Also, the P7 holster is cut away so that the mag release is exposed. If you wear it for duty, as sure as the sun will set in the west, you will lose magazines in chairs and in your vehicle. Did I mention I don't like the P7 (ha ha) I will conclude by saying our SRT loves the stinking things. However, they're queer for any and everything German (MP5, G36, Sausage, etc.)
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:34:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
...I use a thigh holster for CCW...



Eh? How does that work?



I'll draw you a diagram.



I'm not trying to be facetious, I just don't see how a thigh holster works for CCW, unless you're wearing a long coat.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:38:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
...I use a thigh holster for CCW...



Eh? How does that work?



I'll draw you a diagram.



I'm not trying to be facetious, I just don't see how a thigh holster works for CCW, unless you're wearing a long coat.



It's under my skirt.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:40:42 AM EST
Oh. That makes sense. I'm stupid...
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:57:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By HKocher:
Oh. That makes sense. I'm stupid...



Link Posted: 5/7/2004 11:05:47 AM EST
Hot damn!

I need to get one of those for my fiance.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 11:06:39 AM EST

I have 2 P7M8's and I love them both! They are hands down the safest, fastest CCW pistols around. Plus they are very-very thin, makes it very easy to conceal with an inside the waist-band holster. They are also very realiable. I have put over 4000 rounds thru one of them and i have NEVER had a malfunction. I also want to add that I bought some Olympic 9mm that had very hard primers, which my Glock 19 could not ignite. So I slapped them into the P7 and they shot like butter. In addition, they are super-accurate due to the fixed barrel. Its like having a lazer gun; just aim and sqeeze. At 15-yards the rounds usually touch on the target. Did I mention they are super-slick! No stupid levers or switches on the sides, just smoot hard steel.

I love my P7's
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 11:23:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
...I use a thigh holster for CCW...



Eh? How does that work?



I'll draw you a diagram.

<pfff> (sound of me spitting out my coke and laughing)
tatjana, I think he wants pictures!
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 11:29:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By tatjana:

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
...I use a thigh holster for CCW...



Eh? How does that work?



I'll draw you a diagram.



I'm not trying to be facetious, I just don't see how a thigh holster works for CCW, unless you're wearing a long coat.



It's under my skirt.



A great selling point for the tactical kilt. Never will they suspect your kilt is concealing a second gun ready for action.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 11:47:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 11:48:45 AM EST by HKocher]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

<pfff> (sound of me spitting out my coke and laughing)
tatjana, I think he wants pictures!



Hey jackass, I'm a gentleman, so I don't want pictures. Okay, I'm not opposed to pictures, but I wouldn't ask for them.

Sorry, when I think of 'thigh holster', I automatically think of something green or black in Kydex or 'ballistic' nylon. This is definitely not the same type of holster, thus confusion ensued.


Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:28:56 AM EST
Had one since '85. I will NEVER sell it. It's not my issue weapon and I no longer CCW it daily. It has "jammed" twice... The very first round I ever shot; offhand thumb inadvertantly depressed the ambi mag release lever; NEVER happened again with ANY type of grip. And after 500+ rnds wo cleaning; one partial eject or "stovepipe". Racked the slide and back in business during the training.
My wife tried the P7 when I first got it and put a round 4" from the X @ 7 yrds. (She NEVER practices and has only been to a range 3 or 4 times) She wanted 5 rnds in the mag next and slow-fired @ 7 yrds again ... All 5 in one ragged hole ... and yes, I did save the target. If the cost bothers you, get something else and shoot it with pride. BTW, the best comment I ever heard about the P7 was from someone here on ARF.com to someone that was considering funding their next purchase by selling a P7 (apologies to the author?) ...
"Holy Sh!t, what were you thinking? Getting a good deal by selling a P7 has got to be like winning the special olympics! Even if you win, you're still retarded!" Stay safe
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 9:21:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By sparkyCG:
BTW, the best comment I ever heard about the P7 was from someone here on ARF.com to someone that was considering funding their next purchase by selling a P7 (apologies to the author?) ...
"Holy Sh!t, what were you thinking? Getting a good deal by selling a P7 has got to be like winning the special olympics! Even if you win, you're still retarded!" Stay safe



That's a good quote and I wholeheartedly agree with it.

I've sold a lot of guns over the years, but my P7M10 is the one I miss the most. I sold it for double what I paid for it and I still regret it.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:47:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:58:23 PM EST
Shoot a P7 most of the time at IDPA matches, carried a work some and some CCW. In my experience it is an extremely accurate and reliable pistol. I does have some differences from other guns, You must squeeze lever to cock, not a problem it happens in the course of getting a grip on the gun. The mag releases can be activated by the holster, thin them or get a holster that protects them. I use a Blade-tech paddle. No lead bullets or steel case ammo. I do not use either in my other weapons. The slide lock is hard to use. No easy way around that except inserting an empty mag. In return for these design quirks you get a dead reliable, extremely accurate, fairly concealable pistol that with any maintenance should last forever. I have well over 30k through mine and it was used when I bought it. It is expensive but used ones can be found at reasonable prices. The M8 version is still available from Hk as of February.
Scott
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 9:46:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 11:18:47 PM EST
Funny story....my very snotty rich father-in-law decided to by a CCP gun. He is the type who will only eat French cheese, and the best wines, cigars.....etc, etc. He did about 4 months of research before bringing home a brand new P7m8 one day.

He calls me up to his house to see it. Nice looking gun, very low barrel profile...then I ask him if I may hold it - he wipes it down and puts it back in it's little box like he did not even hear me. I figure he must have not wanted me to handle it for some reason (he is a very anal kind of guy about his stuff)

So I politely ask him if he would like to see my USP 9mm Compact. "Oh...well thanks, but I will see it tomorrow, all of the "other” lower end HK pistols all just look the same to me" he said.

Well...this got my blood boiling a bit...so the next day we met at the range. I get my gear out, lay it on the metal tray in my lane, put my first paper up and send it down range. I look over to see if he was ready....well.....not quite.


He had just finished wiping down the metal tray with Windex and paper towels. He then very carefully unfolded a special "gun blanket" to cover all of the metal area (Black with the red HK logo showing on top of course) He then removes the P7 like a sweaty stick of old dynamite, and gingerly sits it down in a nice pose next to his two magazines. Next comes out the polishing cloth, but not for the gun this time....he is holding the mags with the cloth, and polishing the bullets as he loads up each magazine.

All the time talking to me about the wonders of the P7, and how it is the single most modern and accurate firearm in the world at this time (1997?)

I ask him if he would like to see my slightly beat up USP again, he kind of gave me a polite smile, and said well...."it's definitely black , it looks like a great pistol to work towards a P7. Now at this time I had just about had it with his euro snob remarks and Mr. Clean act, but he asked me to wait so we could shoot together.

He ran his target out to 10 yards and emptied his mag very slowly. About 4 rounds hit the paper human outline...the rest were flyers or not even on the paper. His face turned red, and he brought the target back ASAP, said some kind of curse words, got out the polishing rag, gave it a good wipe down (fingerprints must have been messing with his grip somehow).

Another paper out to about 7 yards this time. He emptied the mag in about 7 seconds. "Yes" he yelled...and pulled the paper back in. He had a small group of 3 bullets in the lower right thigh of the target, the rest were all flyers. "Man this thing is accurate" is all he could keep saying as he polished it again.

I had it by then. I ran the paper out to 15 yards and said a little prayer too myself....then I popped two eye holes, 4 in a rough line for the mouth, and a ragged four hole group to the heart area, dropped the mag to the ground (I actually saw him gasp at the sight of my magazine bouncing off the concrete floor) speed reload, and then dumped the rest of them into the chest and forehead as fast as I could with out loosing control.


I asked him if he would like to try my USP, as he was packing the P7 back up. I asked him what he was doing, and he said that felt that his gun should be looked at by an HK tech before shooting any more. I politely asked him "why" - and he replied because I did not pay $1200.00 for a pistol that wont shoot where I point it!

Asked him one more time if he would like to shoot the USP, and he politely declined, and left.
I have never shot with him again, and he has never spoke of that day since.

I never did get to shoot that damn P7......bastard!!!!
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 11:44:28 PM EST
Funny story there Blackgun. I had an alternate expierance same kind of person in what they like to get. They wanted a home defense gun. I offered to help assist them sice they were a friends parents and I was going to that gunshow anyway. Well they get the cheapest thing they could find a Hi-point and 1 box of Wolf 9mm for it. I suggested they may want to look at other guns, they didnt want to, same with the ammo.

To this day they still have not shot it, but they feel safe now.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 5:32:52 AM EST
I want one very badly but they are rare here. They only time I had a chance to buy one I was out of cash.

The skirt/thigh holster. I should get my wife to try that, but then again, I can't even get her to wear skirts.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 5:57:39 AM EST
i would like to have one, but not in a $1400 kind of way
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 9:00:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Blackgun_Fun:
<snip>



Good story, that guy was a major turd.

Unfortunately it seems like there are a lot of folks like that in the Euro-gun world.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 10:01:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 11:40:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 11:41:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 12:17:29 PM EST
The all steel construction makes its tough but a little heavy. Its a dense piece of weapon. But its small and talk about accuracy. My only other CCw gun that comes near it is my SIG239.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 12:22:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By tatjana:
www.btammolabs.com/images/thigh.gif



The knee is healing up well!

(Yes, of course I know this isn't you.)

-Troy



Hey! That's my legs!

Just kidding, I wish. Troy previous post was right on. That's exactly what I have experienced with my P7 M8. A very accurate gun, just point and shoot. Oh boy, did it get hot. I have to admit that I have a hard time to adjust to the squeeze trigger at first.

A fine gun to own nevertheless.

Link Posted: 5/9/2004 12:44:17 PM EST
Pic of one.
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