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Posted: 11/1/2009 1:20:11 PM EST
Ok...first of all, if this is a dupe...tough! First time I've seen it. Now on with the show!

I do NOT have a dog in this fight. I have no agenda at all. I am curious about the results, especially the M4 kaboom.

I have a few ARs including a Colt. I also have some piston rifles including a Sig 556. I do not own an HK 416, so I can't attest to the veracity of this test video.

I don't care at all about the results, because I'm not about to attempt a recreation of the tests. I am a [missile] test engineer by profession and I'm just curious about the methodology employed by the HK test team and the results they achieved. I believe I understand the reasons for the M4 detonation.

I would like the real firearm experts here at ARFCOM to provide us with their opinions of what happened and why.

HK vs M4 Op Test

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:24:06 PM EST
Very old dupe.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:26:10 PM EST
my guess would be water in the gas port causing build up of pressure = boom
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:27:53 PM EST
in before the mob lynching
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:31:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 1:32:05 PM EST by sporter]
Very credible test....
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:33:02 PM EST
Hmmmm...

I came across this too: M4 The Best?

For the record, my favorite rifle is my Stag Arms 2L M4Gery.

That said, I don't abuse it like the testers do nor even the grunts in the field.

Also...I recall that I did treat my CAR-15 pretty badly many years ago and it never failed me.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:35:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:37:52 PM EST
the guy in the video i guess doesnt believe in eye protection either.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:39:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?



agree
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:39:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 1:41:00 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:41:24 PM EST
Funny how they didn't test accuracy or velocity. Those are more important than shooting it with a barrel full of water.

There is NO WAY that water in the gas tube would cause the case to fail, that is just pure bull. The HK only survived the test due to a long and oversized throat which caused gas leakage in front of the bullet, purging the barrel so the bullet would not encounter water resistance. These two make the accuracy of the HK inferior.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:42:06 PM EST
I can explain this very simply on ar15.com nothing beats the 5.56 colt m4, m16 or AR15.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:43:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Funny how they didn't test accuracy or velocity. Those are more important than shooting it with a barrel full of water.

There is NO WAY that water in the gas tube would cause the case to fail, that is just pure bull. The HK only survived the test due to a long and oversized throat which caused gas leakage in front of the bullet, purging the barrel so the bullet would not encounter water resistance. These two make the accuracy of the HK inferior.


Now we're getting somewhere!
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:43:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

How about they fact he gave the HK twice as long to drain and how he made sure and not tip the barrel of the Colt downward?

Re-watch it closely a few times.

+1
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:43:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Ok...first of all, if this is a dupe...tough! First time I've seen it. Now on with the show!

I do NOT have a dog in this fight. I have no agenda at all. I am curious about the results, especially the M4 kaboom.

I have a few ARs including a Colt. I also have some piston rifles including a Sig 556. I do not own an HK 416, so I can't attest to the veracity of this test video.

I don't care at all about the results, because I'm not about to attempt a recreation of the tests. I am a [missile] test engineer by profession and I'm just curious about the methodology employed by the HK test team and the results they achieved. I believe I understand the reasons for the M4 detonation.

I would like the real firearm experts here at ARFCOM to provide us with their opinions of what happened and why.

HK vs M4 Op Test



It's not rocket science.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:45:31 PM EST
Did you notice only the protective helmet was used on the competitor and not on the 416?

Very fishy.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:45:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?


The date on the video is 9/9/2005. I'm very confident it has been hashed out here several times.

As stated before, not a very subjective test. If H&K would have followed the test procedures stated at the beging of the video, I think the outcome would have been different.
Not letting the water drain before firing is never safe/good for any firearm.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:45:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:46:42 PM EST
This has never, ever been discussed on arfcom. No search would ever have brought this exact video/discussion up.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:47:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Raztag:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.




It is. And many, many times over.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:47:16 PM EST
Yup, a real scientific test. Some dudes backyard pond.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:48:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Scottyman:
Did you notice only the protective helmet was used on the competitor and not on the 416?

Very fishy.


Noticed that...

I also noticed that no water drained out of either gun's barrel. Did the water drain back into the chamber?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:48:23 PM EST
I'm guessin it wasn't the first time they blowed up an M4 (with this particular "test") due to the different headgear while shooting...




Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:50:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?




Yep...




Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:51:03 PM EST
The word "rigged" comes to mind. This was a biased test. Here is another question - how many here have actually ever seen or handled or shot a HK416 in person? I would guess less than 1%
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:52:53 PM EST
Since they were already anticipating something explosive with only the DI design and not the 416 the entire video has no credibility.

I still prefer piston systems.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:53:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:54:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?

Did the gas tube explode? No? How did ANY THING in the gas tube cause the case head to fail?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:54:42 PM EST
I have a few piston guns and they run fine and can take misuse and abuse a lot better then my colts but I will leave it for those younger then my rifles to tell me which ones are best
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:55:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Squigglez:
my guess would be water in the gas port causing build up of pressure = boom

How? Did the gas tube explode? . No, it was the case head .


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:56:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By Noname:
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?




Yep...



Sure it did, same place it the gas goes, out the vent holes in the BC.

Thankfully we have some people who can think logically.


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:57:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By Raztag:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.




It is. And many, many times over.


And the OP stated he didnt care if it was or was not. Some of us have not been around since the begining of time.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:57:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:59:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 2:03:41 PM EST by Noname]
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili.


IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNDANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...!







Carry on...




Link Posted: 11/1/2009 1:59:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By Raztag:
Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By Raztag:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.




It is. And many, many times over.


And the OP stated he didnt care if it was or was not. Some of us have not been around since the begining of time.



Do you have a search function?


what in holy fuck does that have to do with anything?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:00:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Noname:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili.


IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNTANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...!







Carry on...






Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:00:49 PM EST
The all seem to be speaking German or some shit..
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:01:04 PM EST
The thing that always cracks me up about this video is the techno version of the theme from Das Boot.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:02:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:
The all seem to be speaking German or some shit..


well it is HK...
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:02:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 2:03:16 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:05:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Noname:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili.


IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNTANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...!







Carry on...






The same stupid BS comes up every single time this "test" is discussed here. Each time the few people on this board who know what they are talking about come in and set the record straight. The thread still goes a few more pages with asinine speculation coupled with no understanding of how these weapons even function.

Don't we have rules regarding dupes? The point of calling them out as dupes is so they can get locked. Someone search and post a link to the latest non-locked thread regarding this "test" and let the OP add to it.

As an aside, I got to handle a 416 upper, does that count?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:06:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By Raztag:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By Raztag:
Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By Raztag:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.




It is. And many, many times over.


And the OP stated he didnt care if it was or was not. Some of us have not been around since the begining of time.



Do you have a search function?


what in holy fuck does that have to do with anything?



What the fuck does turning this site into a perputal groundhog day have to do with anything either?

Why don't we discuss 1911 vs Glock, 45acp vs 9mm and AK-47 vs M-16 too while we are at it?


Sounds like you know everything there is to know about everything Festus. Maybe your work is done here.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:09:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:11:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Noname:
Would you snot-sucking Dupetards go do something serious & real like digging the fucking beans out of your fucking chili.


IF IT'S A FUCKING DUPE THEN DON'T FUCKING CLICK ON THE FUCKING DUPED FUCKING THREAD YOU FUCKING REDUNDANT FUCKING FUCKTARDS...!

Carry on...


Go load your 10rd mags and file the paperwork for the intention of taking your firearms to the range.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:11:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
I know where the ignore button is Gracie. Bye Bye.


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:18:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By Noname:
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?




Yep...






Sure it did, same place it the gas goes, out the vent holes in the BC.




When the bolt is in battery ––––––––––––––––––––- the vents are closed. From that video it appears like the bolt is still engaged in the BBL extension...

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:20:35 PM EST
I have seen this happen to two M16A1s in Vietnam. At different times we came under fire while walking through a rice paddy. Everybody dives into the water. In each instance 1 guy submerges his M16 and comes up firiing with the exact same results in the video.

Everyone was instructed not to fire the rifle with water in the barrel but some did it anyway. In the field I slept on mine to be sure it was always dry and if I woke up in a fire fight I wouldn't have to look for it.

Obivously they were working toward the result they got.

In a High Power match 6 years ago a guy fired a shot with a bullet lodged in his barrel and it looked the same as the video.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:20:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:21:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?

Did the gas tube explode? No? How did ANY THING in the gas tube cause the case head to fail?



From that video you can tell it had casehead separation with the bolt still in the BBL extension?



Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:21:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Noname:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By Noname:
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
Very old dupe.


How old? Y'all ain't been here that long! Anyway...first I saw of this test video.

I'm looking for answers. Do any of you real pros seen anything wrong with the way HK did the test?

FTR...I tend to believe it was just the design of the M4 that caused it to kaboom. Water does not compress and the water in the gas tube had nowhere to go.

Agree?




Yep...



Sure it did, same place it the gas goes, out the vent holes in the BC.




When the bolt is in battery ––––––––––––––––––––- the vents are closed. From that video it appears like the bolt is still engaged in the BBL extension...


Vents are OPENED before the bolt comes out of battery . So stuff that in your pipe and smoke it.

Regardless, water or ANYTHING in the gas tube would NOT cause over-pressure in the CHAMBER. That video is football bat retarded.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 2:24:23 PM EST
For a real answer, maybe it had something to do with the fact the HK was a 10" and the Colt was a 14.5". He also gave the HK about an extra second to drain. The Colt was held at a slightly higher angle. It also seemed like the HK was pushing water out the buffer tube drainhole really fast. Almost as if it had been enlarged specisically for this test.
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