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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/28/2001 7:11:27 PM EDT
Found out from my uncle (LEO) who took a class last week with a SWAT instructor who travels the nation that the planner and main leader of the LA bank robbery rented the movie HEAT 17 times. I always speculated this since the similarities were there. Pretty interesting huh?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:17:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/28/2001 7:12:31 PM EDT by M15A2]
The similarities end when the BG's get away in HEAT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA EDITED to note that the cops in HEAT brought better weapons.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:23:12 PM EDT
very true...very true
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:29:03 PM EDT
Just goes to show you, you should buy the movie..[:D]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:31:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Confederate: Just goes to show you, you should buy the movie..[:D]
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Bought it on DVD last week.[;)]
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:34:54 PM EDT
I was going to post this as a topic, but someone else brought up the LA shootout, here goes. I have read and heard that both of those idiots were convicted violent felons and were therefore not supposed to be in possession of any firearms, much less illegally modified AK's. I heard that theses guys had been arrested about a year before the shootout in possession of the same illegally modified weapons, beat the rap, and somehow got back the aforementioned guns. The reason I ask is because I like to point this and other things, out to anti's as an example of where law enforcement has had chances to head off some of these shootings (like the guy, Buford something, who tried to have himself committed and had been ordered to turn in his guns, but no follow through) and have dropped the ball. I don't mean individual LEO's (not cop bashing), but the policies of admin types who usually are anti anyway.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:04:47 AM EDT
The Norh Hollywood robbers did not have illegally modified AKs. They had factory full-auto Type 56-1 rifles (chinese AK clones) that had been illegally smuggled into the country. Remember about the same time, US Customs busted a guy with ties to Norinco in China for smuggling in 1,000 full auto AKs (hmmm, 10 years and 10K per weapon, how big was his sentence?). Their HK-91s and AR clones were illegally modified to fire FA. These guys also did watch "Heat" several times, and it was probably their inspiration.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:17:17 AM EDT
Good for them, makes them look like even bigger idiots. I bet they fought over who would play Val Kilmer. "No way dude, you got to play him last time, it's my turn to play the Kilmiester!"
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:19:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: The Norh Hollywood robbers did not have illegally modified AKs. They had factory full-auto Type 56-1 rifles (chinese AK clones) that had been illegally smuggled into the country. Remember about the same time, US Customs busted a guy with ties to Norinco in China for smuggling in 1,000 full auto AKs (hmmm, 10 years and 10K per weapon, how big was his sentence?). Their HK-91s and AR clones were illegally modified to fire FA. These guys also did watch "Heat" several times, and it was probably their inspiration.
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Ya whatever happened to that dude and his cohorts? You always hear of the bust, but rarely the trial and the outcome.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:35:15 AM EDT
They should have rented it one more time. If they would have used better tatics they may have gotten away.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:41:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 3:57:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2001 3:51:47 AM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846: Ya whatever happened to that dude and his cohorts? You always hear of the bust, but rarely the trial and the outcome.
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If you are talking about the North Hollywood robbers then you don't hear of them because they died in the gun fight. Well one shot himself and the other bled out.[uzi]
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The dude who tried to smuggle 1000 AK's and got busted at the Port Of Alameda/ Oakland.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:33:47 AM EDT
The LAPD training tape on the shootout, state that the AK's were also illegially modified S/A rifles. The final rifle the one in front of the white car had, was a Bushmaster with Beta C. again, illegially modified. BTW, one of the AK's had Romanian furniture, and one of the bad guy's was Romanian.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 7:21:43 AM EDT
If they had really watched they would have seen the part where Sizemore and the driver of the getaway car were shot. 2 kills by the LAPD. They should have brought more people. I bet they thought they were playing Kilmer and Dnero when actually they were the other two.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:46:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stg44: The LAPD training tape on the shootout, state that the AK's were also illegially modified S/A rifles.
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I've seen the tape, too. I have also read a report on the incident that IDed the weapons as Norinco Type 56-1 Rifles, which were FA from the factory. Who to believe? The report had a very detailed breakdonw of the weapons, and whether they were semi, full and if they were modified. I don't recall off the top of my head, but I believ there was a Bushmaster Xm15 (illegally modified to fire FA) a couple of HK91s (illegally modified to fire FA) A couple of 56-1 (factory FA; illegally possessed), a legal AR15 of some type, a couple of handguns and I think a couple more rifles, but I don't remember the whole thing. The breakdown was very detailed and I tend to give it a bit more creedence than the LAPD tape. Also, LA claims a partial kill on the one that shot himself. He was hit in the neck by a potentially fatal 9mm round fired by an LAPD SWAT officer's MP5 at the same time he shot himself.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:51:30 AM EDT
[url]http://www.crimescenetours.com/scenarios/north_hollywood.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:03:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:40:16 AM EDT
I can't believe they watched HEAT even one time as poorly as they performed.They didn't zone,use cover or even try to fire and manuever.At least the actors in HEAT acted like they knew what they were doing.What weak ass badguys.If those had been Okie cops instead of LA Pantywaist Department sissys those guys would have gotten ate up quickly with a rash of head shots and rifle fire.The robbers didn't even shoulder their weapons or use their sights at all!The cops were bunched up and totally held down with suppressive fire and neither of those fags even tried to advance or flank or even take an aimed shot.Two buck privates with rudimentary infantry training would have dominated in those circumstances but those morons just spewed bullets into the ground and let themselves die.What a couple of fags.I'll bet Kilmer and Deniro would have done ten times the damage those guys did and they are just actors!Just goes to show you that stupid is as stupid does and if they were smart enough to be dangerous they'd have been smart enough to not rob a bank;) SOPMOD M4A5
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:52:09 AM EDT
Where can I see the full tape of that incident ..? THanks
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 10:59:39 AM EDT
I heard that the two bank robbers were pumped up on steroids and were very aggressive (even before the robbery) because of it. Anyone else confirm that?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:07:11 AM EDT
The AK importer was not jailed for his 1000 military grade Norinko AK clones. He had the correct permits and import papers but after doing some math, he soon discovered that at the current price of SAR's, he would never be able to make a profit after the civilian conversion costs and federal fees. I believe he just surrendered them. They were all confiscated and destroyed. As for the LAPD being wussies, that is a definite... NOT! They successfully boxed in two bank robbers with fully automatic rifles using only 9mm pistols and shotguns. Anyone that thinks they could have done better with pistol caliber ammo is insane. There were wounded officers laying all over the place shot right through their cover, none of the other cops retreated. They held their ground and kept the two hedged in. The officers reported multiple hits on the robbers but they all bounced off of their body armor. It wasn't until the swat team showed up with M-16's, were they able to put the last guy out of action. And they engaged the last robber at point blank range while under direct automatic fire. They drove up right up to the car he was firing his full auto AR-15 behind and returned fire. That was definitely one of the most courageous acts under fire that I've seen or heard of. No cowards showed up that day.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:15:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:20:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 11:43:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sodie: As for the LAPD being wussies, that is a definite... NOT! They successfully boxed in two bank robbers with fully automatic rifles using only 9mm pistols and shotguns. Anyone that thinks they could have done better with pistol caliber ammo is insane. There were wounded officers laying all over the place shot right through their cover, none of the other cops retreated. They held their ground and kept the two hedged in. The officers reported multiple hits on the robbers but they all bounced off of their body armor. It wasn't until the swat team showed up with M-16's, were they able to put the last guy out of action. And they engaged the last robber at point blank range while under direct automatic fire. They drove up right up to the car he was firing his full auto AR-15 behind and returned fire. That was definitely one of the most courageous acts under fire that I've seen or heard of. No cowards showed up that day.
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OOOOH BOY! 1)they didn't "box in" shit.They bunched up and hid behind their cover.150 officers didn't even manage 3 head shots at rock throwing range on 2 "clowns" who only managed to hit any of them by accident. 2)They held their ground?What were they going to do run away with their fellow officers laying there bleeding on the ground? 3)As to 9mm pistols and shotguns against full auto rifles that has happened thousands of times since WWI and never seemed to preclude swift vistory when the opposing force outnumbered their opponents 75 to 1. 4)As for being insane that may be true but I gaurantee you that 2 Oklahoma State Troopers could have rolled in there and wasted those pricks in a minute or two,with nothing more than pistols. 5)The average midwestern LEO (or garden variety redneck for that matter)has a few thousand rounds down range for every one round expended by the average LAPD beat cop.The pantywaist comment is about a lack of dedication to skill more than a lack of willingness to perform their jobs when faced with the requirement to do so.They are too busy shaking down motorists and harassing black people to learn how to effectively use their weapons.I watched those guys training on television and was amazed to see the "no shootinist" bunch of sissified city boys(and girls but that is a whole other problem by itself) I'd ever seen.They shot about as well as college students from out of state do after a couple of lessons at our local range. 6)If I watched someone take as long to reload as those BGs did and who were not even really aiming in my general direction 90% of the time I would feel like an idiot for not being able to take them both out myself.I'd just take my time rest my pistol over the fender of my car and pop him repeatedly in the melon until he dropped.The fact that 150 guys could have done this from the beggining but didn't makes them awfully weak to me. 7)What kind of cop who is given a duty shotgun doesn't have a couple of slugs where he can get to them?I'm sorry but no amount of soft body armor is going to keep you from being floored by a 1oz slug fired at the torso at 25M.The fact that nobody was on that program is pretty gay if you ask me(which you didn't;). Weak cops and weaker robbers,must be a Kalifornia thing;)
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 1:16:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 1:58:19 PM EDT
Andy McNab (read Bravo Two Zero) helped choreograph the shoot out. [uzi] [heavy]
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 2:30:35 PM EDT
Did you guys ever think what would happen if those two fools were in your neighborhood? Its deer season around here and everyone is getting their rifles sighted in. If they were in any other part of the country rather than the commie laden California, they would have been toast. I am not even talking about some of us with black rifles. Just the hunting rifles around here would have taken them out.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 2:31:28 PM EDT
Well your Okie patrol officers must all be Olympic quality pistol shooters if they could manage a head shot at 70 to 80 yards while under fire. The LAPD as far as I know only had standard issue 9mm's with fixed combat sights. They did not have match grade extended barrel 1911's with 4x Leupold scopes. There is a reason that pistol ranges only go out to 75 feet. Prior to the bank robbery, the LAPD was issued only buck shot and bean bags for their shotguns. No slugs or sabots allows. It wasn't until recently that some of our legistlators had to write in some new laws to allow a select few patrol cars carry AR-15's and BRI slugs. And there were no guns like the AK-47, HK-91 or AR-15 in WW1. They used bolt action Mausers, Enfields and Nagants. Submachine guns like Thomsons weren't available until the end of WW1. And MP-40 means Machine Pistol 1940, they didn't have those either. Kevlar Ballistic vests also didn't exist in 1917. Just like those poor unfortunate souls that had to charge a Maxim gun implacement at point blank range, anyone charging full auto AK-47s and AR-15s with 70 round drums would have been mowed down just like grass.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:16:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sodie: The AK importer was not jailed for his 1000 military grade Norinko AK clones. He had the correct permits and import papers but after doing some math, he soon discovered that at the current price of SAR's, he would never be able to make a profit after the civilian conversion costs and federal fees. I believe he just surrendered them. They were all confiscated and destroyed.
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I think we are talking about different cases here. The one I am referring to was the import of factory manufactured machine guns (Type 56-1 rifles). There is no legal way to import those, unless it is for sale to a government entity. US Customs busted him, and was setting up a follow-up deal for bigger hardware when it leaked to the press. The thing that got me was that you have to wonder how many shipments they didn't catch. I have no problem with LAPDs performance that day, although I wonder if anyone thought about trying for mobility shots. That incident was a wake-up call for everyone and got law enforcement all around the country thinking about how to respond to those type of incidents. I don't think this could happen again (with the same results, at least) in LA. The robbers would get taken out much, much faster.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:42:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By natez:
Originally Posted By Sodie: The AK importer was not jailed for his 1000 military grade Norinko AK clones. He had the correct permits and import papers but after doing some math, he soon discovered that at the current price of SAR's, he would never be able to make a profit after the civilian conversion costs and federal fees. I believe he just surrendered them. They were all confiscated and destroyed.
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I think we are talking about different cases here. The one I am referring to was the import of factory manufactured machine guns (Type 56-1 rifles). There is no legal way to import those, unless it is for sale to a government entity. US Customs busted him, and was setting up a follow-up deal for bigger hardware when it leaked to the press. The thing that got me was that you have to wonder how many shipments they didn't catch. I have no problem with LAPDs performance that day, although I wonder if anyone thought about trying for mobility shots. That incident was a wake-up call for everyone and got law enforcement all around the country thinking about how to respond to those type of incidents. I don't think this could happen again (with the same results, at least) in LA. The robbers would get taken out much, much faster.
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I ran a check on the news archives, the guns were Norinco/ Polytech AK47 full auto's and there were 2000 of them.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 5:46:29 PM EDT
Federal agents say Ku apparently believed the automatic weapons he was selling were going to gang dealers. It is not clear why he thought so, however, because local law enforcement sources say that AK-47s are not used regularly by street gangs.
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[size=6]WTF?[/size=6]I thought they were the weapon of choice?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:01:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846:
Federal agents say Ku apparently believed the automatic weapons he was selling were going to gang dealers. It is not clear why he thought so, however, because local law enforcement sources say that AK-47s are not used regularly by street gangs.
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[size=6]WTF?[/size=6]I thought they were the weapon of choice?
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i expect sarcasm here, but really though; how many AK's are used by street gangs? assault style weapons are used in less than one percent of the types of firearms used in the commission of a felony. the AK would only be the weapon of choice (as opposed to AR-15, MP5, AUG, etc) because of price. would'nt a thug or terrorist rather have an AUG?
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:12:40 PM EDT
The only similarities between the movies I could detect was that the cops were lousey shots in both.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:54:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By libertarian:
Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846:
Federal agents say Ku apparently believed the automatic weapons he was selling were going to gang dealers. It is not clear why he thought so, however, because local law enforcement sources say that AK-47s are not used regularly by street gangs.
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[size=6]WTF?[/size=6]I thought they were the weapon of choice?
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i expect sarcasm here, but really though; how many AK's are used by street gangs? assault style weapons are used in less than one percent of the types of firearms used in the commission of a felony. the AK would only be the weapon of choice (as opposed to AR-15, MP5, AUG, etc) because of price. would'nt a thug or terrorist rather have an AUG?
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Next time the FVKO's try that "assault weapon" choice of gangs crap, I'll send this article to them. And this incident was in March 1996.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 9:55:40 PM EDT
Too bad none of us was there with our "venison spanker" 30-06's or 300 Win mags! Body armor or not, a 30-06-.308-7mm Mag-etc to the chest would have put them down. It was strange watching that tape the whole time thinking "In Idaho that shootout woulda lasted ten seconds before every swinging dick in the vicinity was plugging away at them with high power deer rifles." Or something to that effect..... Funny how the gun control laws designed to "protect" us never do. Crash
Originally Posted By Big_Bear: Sodie, I agree with you too. LAPD did a great job under the circumstances, considering they had only 9mms and shotguns to work with.
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Link Posted: 10/30/2001 7:24:40 AM EDT
those Oklahoma cops must be ...[b]SUPER COPS[/b] where do you get 150 LAPD cops involved in the shoot out ? watch the video again, i dont see more than 30. probably 150 on scene AFTER the incident, or 120 surronding the area and keeping traffic stopped on a VERY BUSY intersection, trying to keep more civilans from being shot. the gunfight didnt move into the nieghborhood until the very end. the gunfight happened in the middle of the day, when most people are at work, not sitting at home with a scoped 30-06 rifle on there lap. IF someone had ran down the street with a rifle in hand trying to "help" the cops, what are the cops to think? A)hes another robber coming to shoot us? (so we better shoot him). B)hes some wack job who thinks hes gonna help us, but will probably shoot one of us or a civilan by accident? (so we better take our attention away from the shootout to contain this wack job with a rifle) if a bank robber with a FA rifle is shooting at you from stone throwing distance (50 yards), are you going to take the time to do a headshot at 50 yards? got the balls to stand in front of him at 20yards and try for a headshot?
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 8:19:53 AM EDT
living in Huntington beach at the time of the North Hollywood shootout and watching it live on tv. i think the police did one hell of a job considereing what they were up agiensnt. Oh a head shot would take em out sure it would but you try making a head shot when someones blazing away at you with a FA and your scared to death
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 9:17:48 AM EDT
SOPMODM4 - cut them some slack. All of your armchair quarterbacking aside - it looked like a no fun having affair. I do agree with what you have stated about the BG's - but I don't think "getting away" was as much their intention as doing damage. "Better to burn out than fade away". Lastly, I agree - no slugs? However I doubt if you spoke to a beat cop they were in favor of that at the time. Kommiefornia politics at your service. SODIE - I agree - all things considered they did a great job. Tremendously brave men and women that day. Esp the cruiser at the end. The sad aftermath has been a further errosion of gun rights in California due to the misplaced knee jerk reactions of dipshits. It saddens me that the family of the last dirt bag to die sued - a true perversion of the system (like Rodney King). All things considered - how could anyone other than a dirtbag plaintiff's attorney (read - my cut is 40%) construct a logical argument that society as a whole was not better served by allowing that guy to bleed out that day? FWIW - MSNBC reported that these same two "beautiful people" took down a armmored truck with the same basic MO - they shot and killed the driver.
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