I really think that people should wait and see exactally what Hamas wants to do before automatically pulling the plug on them.  They have the support of the Palestenians, so there is a chance that they could make an agreement the Pal's would go for.

Quoted: I really think that people should wait and see exactally what Hamas wants to do before automatically pulling the plug on them.  They have the support of the Palestenians, so there is a chance that they could make an agreement the Pal's would go for.

NO

It is no secret what Hamas wants to do... they have plainly told us their intent, over and over and over....

How about we just believe what they have told us and…

Fuck Hamas.

Quoted: I really think that people should wait and see exactally what Hamas wants to do before automatically pulling the plug on them.  They have the support of the Palestenians, so there is a chance that they could make an agreement the Pal's would go for.

I agree seems like they want to be moderate and come to some kind of resolution.

Good start this is.

Speak against publically, privately, make any deal they can to gain advantage.  

I would never trust Hamas, EVER, PERIOD!!!!! Terrorists do not change their beliefs, only their actions.

So Hamas is "Moderate".  Riiiiiigghht.  


-K

There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ.

Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Quoted: Quoted: So Hamas is "Moderate".  Riiiiiigghht.   -K Last years 'Terrorist' is this years 'Statesman'.... historical fact.

Eurasia has always been our ally.

Eastasia has always been our enemy.


Eastasia has always been our ally.

Eurasia has always been our enemy.

Quoted: Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

That's an oversimplified view. As long as your two enemies don't unite you can defeat them in detail.

HAMAS has big problems. It's easy to be against something, but they won't last long as an organization if they fail to govern. Ask the other terrorist organization who tried to govern, the PLO.

Quoted: Quoted: So Hamas is "Moderate".  Riiiiiigghht.   -K Last years 'Terrorist' is this years 'Statesman'.... historical fact.

Vito, you could be right, case in point-> Anwar Sadat.

Quoted: So Hamas is "Moderate".  Riiiiiigghht.   -K

They're moderate extremists. Kinda like how Brady Campgain sits just right of Feinstein.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's an oversimplified view. As long as your two enemies don't unite you can defeat them in detail. HAMAS has big problems. It's easy to be against something, but they won't last long as an organization if they fail to govern. Ask the other terrorist organization who tried to govern, the PLO.

It might be if you go to the school of Bush.

But it is reallity

Yep, Hamas doesn't want Jihad, they just want to kill all the Jews...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's an oversimplified view. As long as your two enemies don't unite you can defeat them in detail. HAMAS has big problems. It's easy to be against something, but they won't last long as an organization if they fail to govern. Ask the other terrorist organization who tried to govern, the PLO. It might be if you go to the school of Bush. But it is reallity

slaughter answer this one simple question:
Are you or are you not a liberal?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's an oversimplified view. As long as your two enemies don't unite you can defeat them in detail. HAMAS has big problems. It's easy to be against something, but they won't last long as an organization if they fail to govern. Ask the other terrorist organization who tried to govern, the PLO. It might be if you go to the school of Bush. But it is reallity

So we should be buddy-buddy with HAMAS now?

Funny, people tend to accuse Bush of oversimplification. You're accusing him of not oversimplifying.

The simple fact is it IS an oversimplification. The USSR might have been an ally in WWII, but they were not our friends.

I wouldn't trust a Palestinian as far as I could throw them.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's an oversimplified view. As long as your two enemies don't unite you can defeat them in detail. HAMAS has big problems. It's easy to be against something, but they won't last long as an organization if they fail to govern. Ask the other terrorist organization who tried to govern, the PLO. It might be if you go to the school of Bush. But it is reallity slaughter answer this one simple question: Are you or are you not a liberal?

6 a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United States  associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government,  and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives


Might be ?
But I am registered as a Republician

Quoted: I wouldn't trust a Palestinian as far as I could throw them.

Only a fool would trust anything from Hamas.

Hamas has made their intentions clear I guess some people just do not want to hear what they have said… or secretly want to aid them.

Well... regardless of Hamas' intentions... we're just gonna have to wait for the fireworks to start whether we sympathize or not.

seems like i heard that al-zahiri was part of the muslim brotherhood in egypt. a pretty hard core group. but his tactics, strategy and rhetoric was too extrememe even for them. so they kicked him out or exiled him or whatever. he couldna get along with the best of the worst egyptian terrorists so he went to live in goat-caves with osama and brew up things like 911, beheadings and the fatwa-against-all-non-muslims-and-anyone-else-etc.

is not suprising to see hamas take their stance against this guy. who is more radical than osama. however hamas is gonna have to change its stripes and deal with israel on some level to make it into the realm of potential political reality. otherwise their just another plo type outlaw gang..

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's an oversimplified view. As long as your two enemies don't unite you can defeat them in detail. HAMAS has big problems. It's easy to be against something, but they won't last long as an organization if they fail to govern. Ask the other terrorist organization who tried to govern, the PLO. It might be if you go to the school of Bush. But it is reallity So we should be buddy-buddy with HAMAS now? Funny, people tend to accuse Bush of oversimplification. You're accusing him of not oversimplifying. The simple fact is it IS an oversimplification. The USSR might have been an ally in WWII, but they were not our friends.

But they are now ?

Or at least somewhat are .

Thanks for making my point.

From the Hamas charter:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.


The Islamic spirit is what should prevail in every Moslem society. The society that confronts a vicious enemy which acts in a way similar to Nazism, making no differentiation between man and woman, between children and old people - such a society is entitled to this Islamic spirit

The Palestinian Liberation Organization is the closest to the heart of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion. It does not refrain from resorting to all methods, using all evil and contemptible ways to achieve its end. It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups.

Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that.

Sounds moderate to me.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So Hamas is "Moderate".  Riiiiiigghht.   -K Last years 'Terrorist' is this years 'Statesman'.... historical fact. Eurasia has always been our ally. Eastasia has always been our enemy. Eastasia has always been our ally. Eurasia has always been our enemy.

+1   Hamas is double-plus-ungood

Quoted: From the Hamas charter: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." "The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. " Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know." "After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying." The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters. The Islamic spirit is what should prevail in every Moslem society. The society that confronts a vicious enemy which acts in a way similar to Nazism, making no differentiation between man and woman, between children and old people - such a society is entitled to this Islamic spirit The Palestinian Liberation Organization is the closest to the heart of the Islamic Resistance Movement. The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion. It does not refrain from resorting to all methods, using all evil and contemptible ways to achieve its end. It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. Sounds moderate to me.

As we change laws, so can they change their agenda.

It just takes time and talks

There are some simple minds and wishful thinking at work.

Hamas is under a ton of pressure. Funding to the Palestinians has been cut off by several Nations. Funding that is necessary to keep a Palestinian Government in Power. The funding was cut off because Hamas is widely considered a terrorist organization.

Hamas claims this is untrue. So what are they supposed to do? Openly welcome AQ or Publically distance themselves? This public distancing does not necessarily indicate their "real" position on the support from AQ. I ran a google on gullible and I didn't get any hits.

Bomber

Quoted: Quoted: From the Hamas charter: snip As we change laws, so can they change their agenda. It just takes time and talks

Maybe we should have some more Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences.

Yeah OK, trust some guys in white sheets from the mid-East.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a lot of good in this news. AQ often uses the "oppression" of the Palis as a reason to call believers to arms. If the Palis are telling them to go take a hike, it is a blow to AQ. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's an oversimplified view. As long as your two enemies don't unite you can defeat them in detail. HAMAS has big problems. It's easy to be against something, but they won't last long as an organization if they fail to govern. Ask the other terrorist organization who tried to govern, the PLO. It might be if you go to the school of Bush. But it is reallity So we should be buddy-buddy with HAMAS now? Funny, people tend to accuse Bush of oversimplification. You're accusing him of not oversimplifying. The simple fact is it IS an oversimplification. The USSR might have been an ally in WWII, but they were not our friends. But they are now ? Or at least somewhat are .

Nope. They have to prove it. As of yet, they have not. All they have done was publically renounce AQ help. That doesn't mean there isn't backroom deals. It does mean that they undermined, to an extent, an AQ recruiting mantra. HAMAS still advocates the elimination of Israel, which is in direct contrast to our National Policy for that part of the world. If they contradict our policy how can they be friends? Simple answer is they cannot.

Thanks for making my point.

Your point hasn't been made. In fact, it has soundly been refuted, on multiple levels.

Quoted: I really think that people should wait and see exactally what Hamas wants to do before automatically pulling the plug on them.  They have the support of the Palestenians, so there is a chance that they could make an agreement the Pal's would go for.

They might be the only group that whip the Palestinian people into shape...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So Hamas is "Moderate".  Riiiiiigghht.   -K Last years 'Terrorist' is this years 'Statesman'.... historical fact. Vito, you could be right, case in point-> Anwar Sadat.

I think you mean Menachem Begin.

Quoted: www.ice.gov/graphics/news/newsreleases/insideice/images/insideICE_080204_1.jpg Yeah OK, trust some guys in white sheets from the mid-East.

Seem pretty moderate to me.

That's a pretty moderate ammount of explosives.



No reason we souldn't be freinds with them.