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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/25/2004 6:38:23 PM EST
About two years ago I purchased a Mazda Tribute and Paid cash for it. For the last two years I have had nothing but trouble; I've taken it back six times! Four of the times I took the car back it was because of a service soon light, two more time for a check engine light and now I'm about to take it in for a low coolant light that keep coming on and going off even though I have the correct amount of coolant in the vehicle. I have had the vehicle serviced for all scheduled checkups and oil changes on time at the dealership which I purchased the vehicle. I have also have managed to keep all the receipts for all of the work that’s been done.
The real problem is not the hassle of having to take the vehicle in to get fixed; it is that the problems that are occurring are putting my life and everyone else’s life that rides with me in danger. Every time the service engine soon light comes on it’s because a seatbelt sensor is going bad and that same sensor happens to be the one that fires the small amount of explosive that makes the seatbelt lock up whenever a collision happens. Now I have been very blunt with the dealership and they know that they would be held responsible in a collision happened and the seatbelt did not retain tension.

What should I do? Should I try to invoke the Missouri lemon laws or just try and get them to fix this again? Also if you have had any experience with Lemon laws please chime in with advice.

Thanks a lot,
Jerad
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:41:12 PM EST
Talk to the Regional Mazda Rep about a solution.


Hmm, I just traded mine, but I ran 50,000 miles on with virtually zero problems.

Must be the Ford blood in yours!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:41:48 PM EST
trade it in!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:42:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:43:18 PM EST
"About two years ago I purchased a Mazda Tribute "

I think this was your first big problem
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:43:19 PM EST
go to alldata.com and look up what problems are reported
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:51:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Botch:
"About two years ago I purchased a Mazda Tribute "

I think this was your first big problem



Yea I agree but I'm reading over the laws at lemon Laws

407.573.
The terms, conditions, or limitations of the express warranty, or* the period of one year following the date of original delivery of the new motor vehicle to a consumer, whichever expires earlier, may be extended if the new motor vehicle warranty problem has been reported but has not been repaired by the manufacturer, or its agent, by the expiration of the applicable time period.

Thanks Jerad
From what I'm reading I think this time I need to give a written notice stating that the next time it happens I will invoke lemon laws. After that If it happens again (5th time) I will be able to invoke the lemon laws. My question is do they pay what the vehicles worth? If so who judges that? I don't want to be paying for a vehicle again and I don't have enough to buy another one with cash.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:53:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 6:54:00 PM EST by HRGlen]
There is no way a seatbelt sensor would be turning on a check engine light. It would turn on an airbag light or seatbelt light.

There is a common problem on the tribute and ford escape with the DPFE sensors that turn on check engine lights. Check engine lights are generally emission concerns and do not mean you or the motor is in danger, if a check engine light is flashing it means that it can cause damage to the cats and usually a hint that something is stuck and dumping fuel that could internally damage the cat. If a check engine light is on and the vehicle drives normal its usually some silly emission sensor and can even be a pin hole sized leak in the gas cap or the vapor lines that run with that sealed gas tank system. The fact the light is on tells a tech what the problem is and which area to look at.

The Tribute and Escape have a very common failure of the sensor located in the coolant bottle that will turn that light on even though the bottle is full.

Frustrating when you pay monthly and have problems.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:04:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 7:06:29 PM EST by Roadhawk]
For starters, a Service Engine Soon light and a Check Engine light are the same thing. When one of those lights comes on the problem is with the emission, engine or transmission controls. None of these lights come on for airbags or seat belts.

I am not really familar with your model, but in most cars, if a problem arise with seat belts or airbags, a different light comes on, which normlly is SRS...Supplemental Restaint System.

These are 2 completely different systems.

I have a lot of years in working on cars in dealerships, and now in application and calibration work for OE and afternarket products, I can offer you a bit of advise.

If you want to sue or invoke the lemon law, get someone who knows what they are talking about to help you. Document everything.

As it stands now, you gave enough information to tell me you have problems with differnet systems and you believe it is all related. That won't fly in court. Either find another dealer to explain to you what is going on, or find an Independent that can help you.

I don't believe you have a lemon. You have experienced problems with mulitple systems. Maybe they are intermittent and your dealer hasn't been able to correctly diagnose the problem when you brought the car to them.

In any event, contrary to popular belief, Japanese cars have problems like all the rest...get used to it.



Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:11:25 PM EST
Road hawk is right, you have lemon rights if that coolant bottle comes on and is repaired X amount of times and it can not be repaired. For example, in AZ if the vehicle comes into a dealership and they make a repair and that repair fails again, after the 5th attempt you could qualify for a buyback, it also involves days the vehicle is in the shop for service.

The best thing to do is to ask to sit down with a service manager and ask him what your options are and to explain the repairs in english. A customer that asks calmly would get answers, if you go in screaming lemon law and im going to sue it will get a tight lip from the manager for fear of legal issues.

the dealership is not negatively affected by you accomplishing a buyback thru a lemon type law, dealerships are privately owned and not owned by Mazda corporation. Mazda buys it back, not the dealership.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:43:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
For starters, a Service Engine Soon light and a Check Engine light are the same thing.




Not Always ..... The Check Engine Light (CEL) is mandated by federal law (OBD-II) and is Yellow in color , it can only be illuminated by emission spacific codes , Anything exceeding 1.5 times the FTP ( Federal Test Procedure ) emission test results for that model/engine combo .

Service Engine Soon (SES) is Manfacture opption and is Red in color and can be illuminated by anything they want .

Or thats the way the original SAE J1979 guideline was written .

The problem is that between 1996 and 2000 many manfactures were using one or the other
or even both sometimes while sorting out their complience to SAE J1979 standard (OBD-II). After 2000 it was adjusted to include both SES & CEL , just so long as its a Yellow/Amber light ,and only iluminated by Emission related failures .

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:54:12 PM EST
Jerad,
Regarding the seatbelt light thingy....I have had a similar problem with my Carrera but in my case it's nothing to worry about.

The airbag light comes on in my car due to a poor ground between the seatbelt connector and the car's ECU. According to Porsche Cars N.A. it has nothing do with the proper function of the airbag and its ability to deploy in an accident. The airbag light has come on 3 times for me and the dealerships response is the same as yours...replace the seatbelt connector. It usually works for 6-9 months before the light is back on. (There's a more complicated repair but it takes longer and involves changing out part of the wiring harness so it's easier for the dealership to replace a seatbelt connector...oh well. )

The responses above are correct, a 'check engine light' typically indicates things like, mass airflow sensor (MAF), oxygen sensor, improperly sealed gas cap, emissions issues, things like that.

I agree that you should just go in calmly and discuss options with the service manager, stay calm and document everything but don't threaten with a lawsuit.

If you eventually do need to sue, that'll be warning enough without spouting off and looking hysterical.

Good luck with it.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:55:42 PM EST
Sell it and buy a Mercedes Benz.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:02:39 PM EST
when life hands you lemons, make lemonade...

that is, piss on it and buy a honda.

i just dumped my 1996 S10 4x4 chevy (anyone who went to the first BRC should remember it- BECAUSE THE DAMN ENGINE BLEW UP!) for a 2004 honda civic ex. maybe less room, and a higher monthly note, but MUCH more reliable and less costly to drive/maintain.

at two years past purchase, a little late to invoke the lemon laws. i am calling shennanigans on the tribute. trade it in.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:10:50 PM EST
Sorry about your bad luck with the car, but I just wanted to let you know that there is no explosive charge that locks up your seatbelt in an accident. There is a spring-loaded catch in the seat-belt spool that engages if the belt pulls out too quickly.

I'm not saying this to knock on you, I just don't want you to lose credibility with your dealer when figuring out what to do about your car.

I wish you luck.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:18:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By HRGlen:
There is no way a seatbelt sensor would be turning on a check engine light. It would turn on an airbag light or seatbelt light.

There is a common problem on the tribute and ford escape with the DPFE sensors that turn on check engine lights. Check engine lights are generally emission concerns and do not mean you or the motor is in danger, if a check engine light is flashing it means that it can cause damage to the cats and usually a hint that something is stuck and dumping fuel that could internally damage the cat. If a check engine light is on and the vehicle drives normal its usually some silly emission sensor and can even be a pin hole sized leak in the gas cap or the vapor lines that run with that sealed gas tank system. The fact the light is on tells a tech what the problem is and which area to look at.

The Tribute and Escape have a very common failure of the sensor located in the coolant bottle that will turn that light on even though the bottle is full.

Frustrating when you pay monthly and have problems.



Sorry guys I was thinking of the wrong light, but the problem is correct it is the seatbelt sensor. Now that I think about it, it was an airbag light not a check engine light. I've had way too many lights come on in this car it's hard to keep them straight.
Jerad
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:25:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Sorry about your bad luck with the car, but I just wanted to let you know that there is no explosive charge that locks up your seatbelt in an accident. There is a spring-loaded catch in the seat-belt spool that engages if the belt pulls out too quickly.

I'm not saying this to knock on you, I just don't want you to lose credibility with your dealer when figuring out what to do about your car.

I wish you luck.



Pyrotechnic

Pyrotechnic pretensioners use electrically triggered pyrotechnics that tighten the seatbelt a prescribed amount upon sensing a crash event. These devices can operate on either the buckle or ratchet side of the seatbelt mechanism. These are the most highly technical type of pretensioner, and also the most expensive. These will be the focus of this report

Go here
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:28:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jerad:

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Sorry about your bad luck with the car, but I just wanted to let you know that there is no explosive charge that locks up your seatbelt in an accident. There is a spring-loaded catch in the seat-belt spool that engages if the belt pulls out too quickly.

I'm not saying this to knock on you, I just don't want you to lose credibility with your dealer when figuring out what to do about your car.

I wish you luck.



Pyrotechnic

Pyrotechnic pretensioners use electrically triggered pyrotechnics that tighten the seatbelt a prescribed amount upon sensing a crash event. These devices can operate on either the buckle or ratchet side of the seatbelt mechanism. These are the most highly technical type of pretensioner, and also the most expensive. These will be the focus of this report

Go here



Sonuvagun, you learn something new every day. These are standard equipment on the Tribute?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:56:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By chrome1:

Originally Posted By Roadhawk:
For starters, a Service Engine Soon light and a Check Engine light are the same thing.




Not Always ..... The Check Engine Light (CEL) is mandated by federal law (OBD-II) and is Yellow in color , it can only be illuminated by emission spacific codes , Anything exceeding 1.5 times the FTP ( Federal Test Procedure ) emission test results for that model/engine combo .

Service Engine Soon (SES) is Manfacture opption and is Red in color and can be illuminated by anything they want .

Or thats the way the original SAE J1979 guideline was written .

The problem is that between 1996 and 2000 many manfactures were using one or the other
or even both sometimes while sorting out their complience to SAE J1979 standard (OBD-II). After 2000 it was adjusted to include both SES & CEL , just so long as its a Yellow/Amber light ,and only iluminated by Emission related failures .




Sorry, but you are totally off base. SAE J1979 does not mandate anything about colors of lights. J1979 defines the diganostic test modes, Mode $01 through Mode $09. I perform calibration work within the parameters of J1979 every day.

The terms CEL and SES are not even SAE terms. Look at SAE J1930...the correct term is MIL, Malfunction Indicator Lamp. The other terms were manufacturer assigned, and it became confusing because the MIL for one model could be called an SES, and another model might use the term SES for an indicator that service, such as an oil change, was needed.

The MIL is not only used for emission related trouble codes. SAE J2012 mandates the different Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P0, P1, P2, P3, C0, C1, C2, C3, B0, B1, B2, B3. P-powertrain, c-chassis, B-body.

If you want a copy of any of the SAE standards, I can send you a copy.

Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:59:49 AM EST
have you tried squeezing it til the juice runs down your leg?
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:42:05 PM EST
Absolutely worth looking into your State's Lemon Laws, and the manf representatives - but I don't know if 6 service calls in two years will qualify.
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