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Posted: 12/20/2004 4:26:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 5:35:22 PM EDT by dwebb210]
So I'm in route to the shop that is supposed to install helper springs on my truck tomorrow.
Wife is following me, because I have to leave the truck with them overnight.

As we are approaching the right-turn lane at an intersection, some jerk blinks his signal for half a blink
as he starts to move in behind me. He would have hit my wife in her Honda Civic, except
she honks her horn. The horn happens to be air horns off a dump truck. Scares the holy crap
out of the guy, who jerks back into his lane. He obviously saw her after that.

About a half second later, he signals again, and cuts her off with enough room that he
isn't going to hit her this time. The problem is, by this time I am slowing down for the
turn. I am in the turn lane. I have a green light. But I don't have a green arrow and
traffic is in the intersection. I am slowing down because I question my brakes and I
was being careful.

The guy must have been paying attention to my wife instead of me, because
the next thing I know, he has locked up his brakes to avoid hitting me.

I'm still looking around for the truck that was honking a second ago, forgetting I had put
truck horns in my wife's car. Then I hear his horn honk. I'm looking all over for a major
pileup, so I hit my brakes. (I was only going about 10mph when I braked, so it wasn't a big deal)

The problem was, the guy was back on the gas when I hit my brakes.
(at least as best as I could tell)

He tried to steer around me, but didn't quite make it.
He was driving a '99 Olds 88.
His front bumper is trashed.
His passenger side fender is trashed.
Both door panels are trashed. Front door glass shattered.
The rear quarter panel above his tire is trashed.
I handed the officer his side mirror that was under my truck.

When he got out of his car, he was mad and yelling.
Pounding his fists on the roof is his car.
(I assume he has dents from that, as hard as he was hitting it)
He came over to me YELLING.
(and me without my G17)
I locked the door as he approached.
He yelled "WHAT WERE YOU DOING?!?".
I replied "I was slowing down for the turn, what were you doing.
I already had my cell phone out and dialing 911. He walked away from me.
It wasn't an emergency, but I didn't know if he was going to get out of hand.
I didn't open my door until the police arrived.

The only witness who stopped was my wife.
I'm sure her statement is all but meaningless.

The police took statements and filled out a report. They gave him his copy, and then they
came to me. I asked if any tickets were issued, and they said he was ticketed for
rear-ending me. (I don't know if it was a failure to maintain control or what)

The officer advised me that the other driver claims I jammed on my brakes
in an attempt to get him to hit me. I tried to point out that my vehicle was in the
middle of the curve part of the turn lane, and I would therefore be slowing down anyway.
I explained my reasons for stopping. She said it was my word against his, but HE was the
only one issued a ticket.

The problem is, not only do we both have State Farm insurance, we both have the same agent.

My father used to teach Drivers Education, and has experience with the finer points of the
rules of the road, as well as having been in a rear-end accident like mine in the school's car.

I called him to see how much hassle it was going to be since it was my word against the other
guy about me stopping too suddenly.

Dad's opinion was that it could be reduced down to the other driver rear ending me. His fault 100%.
It didn't matter that I was slowing down for a curve.
It didn't matter that I was reacting to someone honking or screeching their tires.
The fact was, he hit me. Period.

I thought insurance companies assigned levels of blame to each party, and that they
would likely find me partially responsible for even being present. He says probably not,
but he wasn't sure.

I KNOW someone reading this has been rear-ended. (or rear ended someone else)

What happens? Was blame divided?
What about both of us having the same agent? Any hassles?

I have attached photos just for fun, since everyone likes photos.

My truck is an '85 F150 with the 300ci L6 (straight 6) engine.
Lots of miles, lots of rust, but it never fails to start, and it runs great.

I had a pickup involved in a hit-and-run 12 years ago that had less damage, and
was declared a total loss. I'm going to try to fight to keep this one from being declared a total.
If you can believe it, I have full coverage on it. But Dang... even used beater pickups
cost a ton of money.

Dave













Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:31:18 PM EDT
He rear ended you...his fault and he will have a hard time proving otherwise. State Farm will probably drop both of you.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:31:40 PM EDT
Where's the dent?
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:32:54 PM EDT
Just a rule of thumb, but, generally speaking, the rear ender is at fault. There's no such thing as "blame for being present," at least not in my humble 15 years as an attorney defending these things. Even if you are stopped for no apparent reason, it's his job not to hit you. Of course, this excludes swoop and squat fraud etc.

The agent deal has nothing to do with it, the agent won't determine fault, an adjuster will.

Unless you are in a no fault state, in that case, all bets are off.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:33:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Where's the dent?



Behind the Ford Oval.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:34:33 PM EDT
I don't think the fact that you have the same insurance carrier and agent is germaine in any sense. It's nothing more than coincidence.

If he was ticketed, he's going to be assigned the blame by the claims department, unless he is successful in defending himself against it. I would imagine that the claims adjuster will try to just settle with you for some value.

I would be hesitant to let them do one of the deals where they total the car and you buy it back for a dollar. You'll then have a vehicle with a salvage title, I think.

Sucks. Sorry to read about your truck getting mangled by a doofus. Maybe you can use some of the settlement money to get your brakes fixed!
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:35:45 PM EDT
Lucky for me, I have a class-4 hitch receiver.
The bumper's mounting bracket was pushed in until the bumper hit the receiver.
Then the bumper folded in at the receiver.

The truck still moves in a straight line. I can't see any damage to the frame.
Had the hitch receiver not been there, the bumper would be very intimate with the tire.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:37:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Where's the dent?



Behind the Ford Oval.

SGatr15



Hey, I represent that remark.

Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:39:17 PM EDT
That's a teeny little scratch!!

Oh by the way I was the only witness to a drunk driving accident that killed a 15 year old girl. I almost got hit head on and swerved, he hit and killed the girl driving behind me.

I had to go in for a deposition for the insurance company, turns out the drunk AND the girl were insured by the same agent. Yikes!
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:39:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
He rear ended you...his fault and he will have a hard time proving otherwise. State Farm will probably drop both of you.

SGatr15



I'm not laughing. I've heard of insurance companies doing crap like that.

I have four separate vehicle policies with State Farm.
From what they have told me, claims stay on the individual policy.
I could get a policy canceled for whatever reason, but they won't drop all of them.
Since this is the first incident with this vehicle, I doubt they will drop me.
But stranger things happen.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:41:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2004 4:41:50 PM EDT by dwebb210]

Originally Posted By SNorman:

That's a teeny little scratch!!

yea, yea... It will buff right out.

Oh by the way I was the only witness to a drunk driving accident that killed a 15 year old girl. I almost got hit head on and swerved, he hit and killed the girl driving behind me.

I had to go in for a deposition for the insurance company, turns out the drunk AND the girl were insured by the same agent. Yikes!



Dang... Hope he is still in prison.

Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:42:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2004 4:43:54 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:43:07 PM EDT
I'll give you $500 for that truck! Looks like the rust termites have got to it long before the dent. LOL.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:49:39 PM EDT
Don't assume that because you are rear ended you aren't going to be found at fault. I was making a right turn once (signaled in advance, in the turn lane, doing nothing wrong). The woman behind me was distracted by her kids (I surmise) and rear-ended me. The pigcop shows up, and it turns out that he went to high school with the woman. The cop tickets me for "improper turn" or something equally pathetic. I fight it in court (alone, stupidly) and the tax collectorjudge just ignores me. That made my insurance suck for several years.

Now why do I get nervous around cops again...?
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:51:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:

Unless you are in a no fault state, in that case, all bets are off.



According to http://www.autoinsuranceindepth.com/no-fault-insurance.html
Illinois is not a "no fault" state.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 4:56:59 PM EDT
An 85 in less than marginal shape? and how much to repair? I wouldn't be surprised if they total it, give you a check and drive it away for scrap. You don't really expect them to pay more to repair it than it is worth do you? BTW How much difference would salvage title mean on that one anyway? Not like anybody was going to pay you much for it would they? one way or the other?

I "totaled" a car once, it wasn't a beater, but it was ok for commuting. So I got the high book value, it was clearly in great shape but peeling the right front running gear off a Subaru body totals it.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:01:27 PM EDT
You needed a new bumper anyways.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:01:34 PM EDT
My uncle used to be a Nebraska/Iowa district manager for allstate.

There shouldn't be any hassles. This is actually a really easy one for them.

Totaling: Your truck didn't lose any value since it's 20 years old & the body was in poor conditionin. To the insurance company it held $0 value before the accident. They will likely delcare it as a loss and give you $1000 or $1500 and close the claim.

You won't be dropped by allstate for this accident unless you've got a reall poor record with them already.

The other driver most likely will not be dropped. But unless he had full coverage he'll be walking.


Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:04:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2004 5:05:14 PM EDT by dwebb210]

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
An 85 in less than marginal shape? and how much to repair? I wouldn't be surprised if they total it, give you a check and drive it away for scrap. You don't really expect them to pay more to repair it than it is worth do you? BTW How much difference would salvage title mean on that one anyway? Not like anybody was going to pay you much for it would they? one way or the other?

I "totaled" a car once, it wasn't a beater, but it was ok for commuting. So I got the high book value, it was clearly in great shape but peeling the right front running gear off a Subaru body totals it.



Have you seen what a used pickup sells for?

One with the body condition of mine will start at $500 without an engine.
The transmission and differential have been recently rebuilt.
The brakes are like new, except for the master cylinder that has a small leak in a seal.
New radiator. new heater core. New hitch receiver.
New alternator. New battery.

edit: New means replaced within the last 500 miles. (within the last year)

If I wanted one that ran as good as mine, you would be looking at a couple grand, easy.

Rust is just cosmetic.

You can't compare the price of used trucks to used cars.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:05:14 PM EDT
I agree with Aimless. Happened to me as well. The other driver was at fault for rear rending me. Both of us had the same agent and Insurance carrier.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:13:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Just a rule of thumb, but, generally speaking, the rear ender is at fault. There's no such thing as "blame for being present," at least not in my humble 15 years as an attorney defending these things. Even if you are stopped for no apparent reason, it's his job not to hit you. Of course, this excludes swoop and squat fraud etc.

The agent deal has nothing to do with it, the agent won't determine fault, an adjuster will.

Unless you are in a no fault state, in that case, all bets are off.



What CITADELGRAD87 said except the nofault stuff. It won't make any difference to you but if you hit someone insured by the same insurance company you may not have to pay the deductible.

Here is a true hit in the rear exchange. Driver 1 was hit in the rear by Driver 2.

Cop to Driver 1: What happened.

Driver 1: I was slowing down and the guy hit me from the rear.

Driver 2: Officer I hit him because he was going to slow. He should get a ticket for obstructing traffic.

Cop hands Driver 2 a ticket for following too closely and speed in in excess of conditions.


Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:15:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dwebb210:

Originally Posted By SNorman:

That's a teeny little scratch!!

yea, yea... It will buff right out.

Oh by the way I was the only witness to a drunk driving accident that killed a 15 year old girl. I almost got hit head on and swerved, he hit and killed the girl driving behind me.

I had to go in for a deposition for the insurance company, turns out the drunk AND the girl were insured by the same agent. Yikes!



Dang... Hope he is still in prison.




My testimony put him in jail, but I believe he only got a few years which really pisses me off.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:18:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:45:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Why in heaven's name are you paying for full collision on that thing? The collision coverage probably costs more per year than they'll pay for the truck.



My 250 deductable collision insurance only costs me $63.60 per YEAR over what my liability costs.

As far as I'm concerned, that is awesome insurance to protect me against the loss of the
value of the truck.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:55:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dwebb210:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Why in heaven's name are you paying for full collision on that thing? The collision coverage probably costs more per year than they'll pay for the truck.



My 250 deductable collision insurance only costs me $63.60 per YEAR over what my liability costs.

As far as I'm concerned, that is awesome insurance to protect me against the loss of the
value of the truck.

Dave




No offense, but that truck is worth $350 tops.


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 5:59:32 PM EDT
I can just imagine the look on the adjusters face when he estimates the damage. I think he will total that one out guy. I would buy the truck back from the insurance company and drive it until it dies.
Link Posted: 12/20/2004 6:24:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

No offense, but that truck is worth $350 tops.

Sgatr15



No offense taken.

But I defy anyone to find a full size pickup within 200 miles of my home, for less than $500.
(one that runs, and is street legal)

Dave

Link Posted: 12/28/2004 1:23:43 PM EDT
State Farm said the truck is valued at $1900.
Minus $500 for rust.
Plus cost for title transfer.
Minus $125 if I want to retain the truck.

I picked up a check for $1192.50 today.
They are mailing me the deductible that was subtracted.

All totalled, I will get $1442.50.

I ordered a new bumper and two tail lights. $188 shipped to my door.

I'm not sure my skills are good enough to repair the sheet metal damage,
but I guess I can't hurt what is already damaged.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 1:31:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
I don't think the fact that you have the same insurance carrier and agent is germaine in any sense. It's nothing more than coincidence.




To quote Sheriff Buford T. Justice, "what the hell do the god damn Germans have to do with this?"
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 1:34:09 PM EDT
Forgot to mention that State Farm determined the other driver was 100% at fault.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 1:37:17 PM EDT
Wow, the dude that hit you caused your fenders to rust and your bumper to fall off?
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 1:44:31 PM EDT
How do they bust cases of "Swoop and Squat" fraud?
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 1:50:55 PM EDT
You're supposed to wash these things with fresh water and soap, not a brine solution.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 1:54:48 PM EDT
So what kind of new goodies are you getting with the extra cash? Glad nobody was hurt and it seems like everything got worked out. Minus some lost time & hassle...enjoy your new toys.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 2:47:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arrgr:
So what kind of new goodies are you getting with the extra cash? Glad nobody was hurt and it seems like everything got worked out. Minus some lost time & hassle...enjoy your new toys.



I took the truck to the suspension shop after work.
They just called a half hour ago, and said it was done.
For $290, I got the rear helper springs I needed.

The bumper and tail lights cost $188.

I still have to fix the sheet metal.

I've been making excuses for not buying new tires for my Saturn for a year now.

After that, I should still have $500 or so. I'll put that towards an AR-50.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 2:56:17 PM EDT
I was going to tell you state Farm is great about that. You never have to see the asshole again and they will handle it quickly. He gets a rate increase and you get a check if it goes well. But you said that already happened. They were great when I had a problem like that a couple of years ago,,so I am going to keep them for a long time.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 3:07:21 PM EDT
Those old trucks sure are tough.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 3:13:23 PM EDT
I had State Farm and still do. Another driver hit me resulting in a $30000 claim. I was not dropped and my rates were not affected. Having the same agent cuts through the BS and speeds up communication. I was skeptical at first, but the result was good.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 5:12:53 PM EDT
Check with your agent... you might not have to cover a deductable because you both had the same insurance company. (My experience with American Family)
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 5:28:32 PM EDT
State Farm sucks! My wife sued them and they settled out of court, she was represented by none other than ROSE LAW FIRM.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 5:34:34 PM EDT
My sister works for State Farm. They get their margin by fucking over their agents.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 5:34:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:
Check with your agent... you might not have to cover a deductable because you both had the same insurance company. (My experience with American Family)



Wierd the way things work.

I called State Farm to report the accident, and to get the ball rolling.
Hence, I filed a claim.
As with any claim you file, it is subject to your deductable.
So, any money paid is minus my deductable.

HOWEVER, since the other person was 100% liable, his policy reimburses me for my deductable.
Which is why I get one check from the "total loss division", and one from his claim rep.

It all works out in the end, but it still has to go through proper channels.

Link Posted: 12/28/2004 5:46:07 PM EDT
Two bad things about State Farm.

#1) My agent. I NEVER deal with him.
I call with a question, and the receptionist transfers me to some other lady.
If she doesn't know the answer, she calls corporate.
My agent doesn't lift a finger to do anything.
As far as I can tell, he is nothing but some kind of figurehead.


#2) State Farm screwed me once.

I had a '69 chevelle which I wrecked in '93.
Full coverage, so they paid to have it fixed.
They quickly realized it was going to cost more to fix than they thought, but they finished the job.
THEN they tell me that I wasn't paying enough for "full coverage", even though it was what they
determined. They thought my car was worth $3000. It cost that much to fix.
But, they realized my car was worth more than the $3000.

Anyway, they adjust my policy so I was insured for $6000 instead of $3000.

A year later, I total the vehicle. (not my fault)

THEN they say they overestimated the value of the vehicle, and with depreciation....
They wrote me a check for $3000 (minus my deductable)

I was too young and stupid to realize I was getting hosed.

Had I known then what I know now, I could easily have forced them into making good on their
$6000. Live and learn.

Other than that, State Farm is TERRIFIC.

I've had other claims since then.

We have certified repair centers here.

Some lady hit my Saturn. I drove the car to the dealer, who is a certified shop.
They were half way finished with the work before the other driver's insurance company
ever contacted me. State Farm handed them the bill. It was great.

No more having to deal with getting estimates. LOVE IT.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 5:49:02 PM EDT
State Farm screwed me over for 8 months before paying. I had the police report and written statements from witnesses and everything proving that the other driver ran a red light at 45 mph. You are lucky it settled quickly in your case.

In my case, when they paid, boy did they have to pay. They coulda made it easy on themselves. Dumb.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 5:51:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By newbushmaster:

Those old trucks sure are tough.



Fords never die..... they just rust away.

Actually the '85 I have was a nightmare.

WHAT IDIOT decided to computerize a freak'in carburetor???

Computer controlled EGR valve. Computer controlled everything.

I scrapped all of that, and it now has a modified GM distributor with HEI ignition.
Kicks Ass !!!

I had to use an earlier model carb for the engine to run well.
It runs a little rich, but at least it isn't knocking and pinging like it was when the computer died.



Link Posted: 12/29/2004 4:31:56 PM EDT
Don't fix the rusted sheet metal, just go get a replacment bed at a bone yard.
Link Posted: 12/29/2004 4:34:59 PM EDT
No beds available in my area.
By the time I add up the cost of a bed, and the cost to retrieve it,
I would be FAR ahead to patch the bed.
No point in getting a GOOD bed when I have holes in the floor boards.

Plus, the bed itself is great... it is the outer sides that are rusty and full of holes.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 5:40:21 PM EDT
$188 for the bumper and two tail lights.
(I got two tail lights just so they would match)

$34 for the patch panel.

$20 for the ford red paint.

Probably around $50 for other odds and ends to weld, bondo, sand,
and paint the panel.

So, from the $1440 I got for the accident, I had about 1150 left over.

So, I put it towards a new firearm.

As soon as Armalite gets their backorders caught up, I've got an AR-50 on the way.






Link Posted: 1/7/2005 6:00:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 6:08:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
The truck was not worth fixing, except to you. All of this because your wife could not touch her brakes and back off a tiny bit and let him complete the merge.

I would have filed complaints regarding the air horn bullshit.



The air horns are perfectly legal, so bite my ass. You are as bad as the guy that hit me.
Lets blame everyone else for his stupidity.

And "all of this" was because the jerk cut my wife off, almost hitting her, and then hit me.
My wife didn't cause the guy to hit me. The guy wasn't paying attention to his driving.

State Farm decided the truck was worth $1440 before the accident.
It cost me maybe $275 to fix it back to $1440 condition.
Sounds like the best investment a person could make.
(considering the truck is in great mechanical condition. )


Link Posted: 1/7/2005 6:15:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dwebb210:
About a half second later, he signals again, and cuts her off with enough room that he
isn't going to hit her this time. The problem is, by this time I am slowing down for the
turn. I am in the turn lane. I have a green light. But I don't have a green arrow and
traffic is in the intersection. I am slowing down because I question my brakes and I
was being careful.




First "cuts-off" and "enough room" are contradictions.

Next, rear end crash = his fault.

Take pictures of the intersection of the police didn't. Just so he can't claim you locked up the brakes to cause a crash. Lack of skidmarks, from a truck would help disprove that.

Whether or not you have the same agent will probably make claims go smoother, if there is any impact on the calim at all.

That will probably be totalled. It may be more productive to fight for the apropriate amount as opposed to fighting the "total".

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