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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/19/2005 10:43:34 AM EDT
There has been a lot of hysteria, misquotes, threats, and downright uncivilized Emails (so many in fact that for the first time ever I've removed my email addy from my profile) All about a post I made the day after I came back about conditions in Lousiana, and I requested that thread be locked. Shotar has now asked that I explain my experiences in ANOTHER locked thread, so here it is.

Our team was divided. Those officers with EMS certification were split from the main group, and ended up working refugees with unarmed rescue workers. Essentially, medical search teams. We took them to what was acting as a triage station. If anyone ended up in your local hospital, they more than likely were found by us or another group like us. Several of them died. Diabetics without insulin, heart patients, etc. Lots of elderly and kids. I did not enter the nursing homes in the news, but that situation was not uncommon. (As an aside, if they died after we found them, I don't think they are counted in the Katrina death toll)

I never saw a gun confiscated except from looters. No one I talked to confiscated a gun from anyone other than a criminal. I personally did not confiscate anything other than Injectable Valium from a looter. (He had over a hundred vials)

Now, they DID confiscate guns. If it was worth keeping, had ammo, etc, it was given to whatever NON-CRIMINAL wanted it. If not, it was rendered inoperable. The obvious question, where did the guns come from? Looters were certainly not the original owners. Esp the guy that didn't realize Remington .270's have a magazine. (He was treating it as a single shot. His pockets full of ammo)

A few of them still had dealer tags or damage from busted gun locks on them, meaning these came from retail dealers or pawn shops. But the majority of them came from the looted homes of gun owners. It's a pretty obvious tipoff when a crackhead has an over/under and a Buckmark target pistol.

Think about that for a sec. You have a gun collection. Say, 30 or so long guns. Like most owners, you keep them in a closet Homak safe or similar (If even that. Most store under the bed.) What happens when you evacuate?

You take 3 or 4 with you, and leave the rest at home. Congratulations, you just armed the looters. The police then have to take them back, and get shot at in the process. From now on, I've decided that my collection is going to be stored without bolts, even in the safes. Let 'em use them as a club.

The desperate need for firearms there is kind of hard to describe. I firmly believe I could have sold mine for thousands of dollars or gotten laid for them. As it was, I gave away my backup and two shotguns. (To women. I always had a weak spot there)

I asked for them back, and just might have them returned someday, but if not they were well spent.

Even gun owners who already had them were lacking. Ammo especially. I gave away two ammo cans of buckshot and 9mm Gold Dot. 10-15 rounds at a time. ( I Had a guy ask me if my AR fired .243)

I left all my ammo/mags for the AR and all but one of the Beretta mags, (had to have SOMETHING to get home on) as well as my cleaning kit. I even gave away my cheapie Tasco binoculars.

Just a note, EVERYONE that went got sick. I overdosed like heck on Immodium I probably won't be regular until December.. One of the guys may lose use of his leg due to a knee infection. He stuck himself on debris.

Mods, I fully expect this to go south (sooner than later), please lock it at the first sign of asshattery.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:48:46 AM EDT
Shouldn't be locked. You were there. Most of the people screaming about JBT's confiscating everyone's guns are getting info from the same media they usually talk shit about. Thanks for the report.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:52:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 10:54:05 AM EDT by NorCal_LEO]
I know this was no vacation, but did you get any pics?

NorCal

BTW I liked your first post and hope this one stays.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:01:07 AM EDT
+1 for your efforts.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:05:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
I know this was no vacation, but did you get any pics?

NorCal

BTW I liked your first post and hope this one stays.



Sorry, I don't even own a camera. Not really much to see really, A fair amount of damage, but mostly my area was pretty well spared, just overwhelmed with people. We did not go into the major flooded areas, didn't have the gear for it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:07:58 AM EDT
Mine are in a safe.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:09:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
I know this was no vacation, but did you get any pics?

NorCal

BTW I liked your first post and hope this one stays.



Sorry, I don't even own a camera. Not really much to see really, A fair amount of damage, but mostly my area was pretty well spared, just overwhelmed with people. We did not go into the major flooded areas, didn't have the gear for it.



Sounds like you did good.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:13:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Mine are in a safe.



So are mine. I figure that might slow them down an hour or so. I'm pulling all the bolts.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:16:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:


You take 3 or 4 with you, and leave the rest at home. Congratulations, you just armed the looters. The police then have to take them back, and get shot at in the process. From now on, I've decided that my collection is going to be stored without bolts, even in the safes. Let 'em use them as a club.



I like that idea. But if you have a real gunsafe, you probably have no worries.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:17:23 AM EDT
"so police up all your ammo and frags. don't leave nothing for the di...."

good advice.
if i leave town my truck will go loaded.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:21:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 11:22:12 AM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:30:33 AM EDT
Nicely done, all the way around. Hopefully the right wing nuts will stay in GD so that this can stay up.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:06:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 12:09:05 PM EDT by Striker]
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:31:16 PM EDT
Sorry, forgot to mention one thing. I found it curious at the time. A doctor with us actually brought it up.

The evacuees would hit you in ripples or pulses. Almost like there was a long traffic light somewhere. Later on, these slow periods became so pronounced we actually snuck back to Orange for a shower and takeout. I have no idea what caused it. It's almost like folks reach different group levels of "f##k this,, let the others stay.".
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 12:41:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Sorry, forgot to mention one thing. I found it curious at the time. A doctor with us actually brought it up.

The evacuees would hit you in ripples or pulses. Almost like there was a long traffic light somewhere. Later on, these slow periods became so pronounced we actually snuck back to Orange for a shower and takeout. I have no idea what caused it. It's almost like folks reach different group levels of "f##k this,, let the others stay.".



what would you expect?
sheep travel in herds.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:16:24 PM EDT
John-- Thank you. GTlad to have first hand reports.

Steve
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:27:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:28:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Mine are in a safe.



So are mine. I figure that might slow them down an hour or so. I'm pulling all the bolts.



Would it be that easy for savages without electricity (for power tools)?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 2:55:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Mine are in a safe.



So are mine. I figure that might slow them down an hour or so. I'm pulling all the bolts.



Would it be that easy for savages without electricity (for power tools)?



Excellent post. Now for the question above. Most gun "safes" are really RSC rated, as in, residential storage containers. (look inside your door, surprise, RSC!) Most can be easily compromised by knocking them on their back and bashing the door in with a sledge hammer. Faster than power tools. If you have an RSC, it better be bolted to the floor.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:22:17 PM EDT
For those counting on their safes. All mechanical devices can be overcome given only one important item, time. With enough uninterrupted time almost anyone will get into anything that they wish. After an evacuation all you have is buttloads of time. Now, most "looters" are too lazy to mess with a high end safe and will look for something easy but, there are exceptions. Besides, my father always recommended storing bolts or slides or barrels seperate from their firearms for purposes of safety.

But, it's a free country. Do what you want.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:23:04 PM EDT
Thanks for the post and the work you did over there.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:49:16 PM EDT
I have responded to burglary calls where the business' safe had been "peeled" with nothing more than a chisel and big hammer. I have no illusions about how long my gunsafe would last in a "NOLA" situation.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:58:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:19:04 PM EDT
Thank you!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:39:29 PM EDT
Good post and thanks.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:23:19 PM EDT
You did good and thanks bro! Ever in central GA, beer's on me.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:33:57 PM EDT
John,
Appreciate the post. The added detail was much more enlightening.

If safes are indeed not all that safe, what the hell can I do that is practical. House alarmed, as well. I guess you could get a second safe to lock up the pistol slides and bolt/lowers on AR/AK type weapons.

I guess if somebody really wants something, there's always a way.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:37:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:42:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Striker:

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:
.

I guess if somebody really wants something, there's always a way.


Especially with time on their side.
Although I haven't done it yet..I plan on "hiding" my gun cabinet in plain sight someday.



Makes sense. Shit, the only place I lose my keys are in my front pocket. The hiding stuff "right under one's nose" truly has some merit.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:51:52 PM EDT
All I can say is , holy crap.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 8:40:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

......

Just a note, EVERYONE that went got sick. I overdosed like heck on Immodium I probably won't be regular until December.. One of the guys may lose use of his leg due to a knee infection. He stuck himself on debris.




With this shit going on, the asshat Mayor is inviting everybody back to the disease ridden shithole. The man is an amazing dipshit.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 8:41:42 PM EDT
tagged
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:30:30 AM EDT
This is a useful post and compels me to revisit my storage strategy...bolts are coming out of all my nonessential items. The few that definitely get packed for evacuation or brought out for defense stay together, the rest go boltless.

Thanks for sharing your findings.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 5:45:32 AM EDT
I can only hope you are on a wide spectrum antibiotic like Cipro. See your local Doc and let him know the shit you have been swimming. You can harbor some ugly critter in your bowels for along time.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:15:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 9:16:06 AM EDT by cmoth]
There are several manufacturers that make "hide in plain site" safes of different types. I saw one that was built into the boxspring portion of the bed. There are also units that are designed to fit in between the studs in interior walls.

Security measures are only designed as deterents for those without patience or intelligence and delaying tactics to make capture / discovery more likely. It displaces would-be thieves to go to the neighbors house instead of staying in yours. Don't ditch security measures because you can't find one that's "burglar proof". A layered defense is the best strategy than relying on any one thing. Security starts at the sidewalk not the front door.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:21:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmoth:
There are several manufacturers that make "hide in plain site" safes of different types. I saw one that was built into the boxspring portion of the bed. There are also units that are designed to fit in between the studs in interior walls.

Security measures are only designed as deterents for those without patience or intelligence and delaying tactics to make capture / discovery more likely. It displaces would-be thieves to go to the neighbors house instead of staying in yours. Don't ditch security measures because you can't find one that's "burglar proof". A layered defense is the best strategy than relying on any one thing. Security starts at the sidewalk not the front door.




Links, man. We need links to these hide-in-plain-sight safes for the wall and bed!

Good post.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 11:31:38 AM EDT

With this shit going on, the asshat Mayor is inviting everybody back to the disease ridden shithole. The man is an amazing dipshit


Yes, but in two weeks he will be back on the TV with Jesse and AL swearing up a storm that Whitey let him let folks back in when they knew it could/would make them sick. How could FEMA/Bush let him make that mistake?
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 12:11:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
There has been a lot of hysteria, misquotes, threats, and downright uncivilized Emails (so many in fact that for the first time ever I've removed my email addy from my profile) All about a post I made the day after I came back about conditions in Lousiana, and I requested that thread be locked. Shotar has now asked that I explain my experiences in ANOTHER locked thread, so here it is.

Our team was divided. Those officers with EMS certification were split from the main group, and ended up working refugees with unarmed rescue workers. Essentially, medical search teams. We took them to what was acting as a triage station. If anyone ended up in your local hospital, they more than likely were found by us or another group like us. Several of them died. Diabetics without insulin, heart patients, etc. Lots of elderly and kids. I did not enter the nursing homes in the news, but that situation was not uncommon. (As an aside, if they died after we found them, I don't think they are counted in the Katrina death toll)

I never saw a gun confiscated except from looters. No one I talked to confiscated a gun from anyone other than a criminal. I personally did not confiscate anything other than Injectable Valium from a looter. (He had over a hundred vials)

Now, they DID confiscate guns. If it was worth keeping, had ammo, etc, it was given to whatever NON-CRIMINAL wanted it. If not, it was rendered inoperable. The obvious question, where did the guns come from? Looters were certainly not the original owners. Esp the guy that didn't realize Remington .270's have a magazine. (He was treating it as a single shot. His pockets full of ammo)

A few of them still had dealer tags or damage from busted gun locks on them, meaning these came from retail dealers or pawn shops. But the majority of them came from the looted homes of gun owners. It's a pretty obvious tipoff when a crackhead has an over/under and a Buckmark target pistol.

Think about that for a sec. You have a gun collection. Say, 30 or so long guns. Like most owners, you keep them in a closet Homak safe or similar (If even that. Most store under the bed.) What happens when you evacuate?

You take 3 or 4 with you, and leave the rest at home. Congratulations, you just armed the looters. The police then have to take them back, and get shot at in the process. From now on, I've decided that my collection is going to be stored without bolts, even in the safes. Let 'em use them as a club.

The desperate need for firearms there is kind of hard to describe. I firmly believe I could have sold mine for thousands of dollars or gotten laid for them. As it was, I gave away my backup and two shotguns. (To women. I always had a weak spot there)

I asked for them back, and just might have them returned someday, but if not they were well spent.

Even gun owners who already had them were lacking. Ammo especially. I gave away two ammo cans of buckshot and 9mm Gold Dot. 10-15 rounds at a time. ( I Had a guy ask me if my AR fired .243)

I left all my ammo/mags for the AR and all but one of the Beretta mags, (had to have SOMETHING to get home on) as well as my cleaning kit. I even gave away my cheapie Tasco binoculars.

Just a note, EVERYONE that went got sick. I overdosed like heck on Immodium I probably won't be regular until December.. One of the guys may lose use of his leg due to a knee infection. He stuck himself on debris.

Mods, I fully expect this to go south (sooner than later), please lock it at the first sign of asshattery.



You are one stand up guy!
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 1:37:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 1:37:19 PM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By uafgrad:

With this shit going on, the asshat Mayor is inviting everybody back to the disease ridden shithole. The man is an amazing dipshit


Yes, but in two weeks he will be back on the TV with Jesse and AL swearing up a storm that Whitey let him let folks back in when they knew it could/would make them sick. How could FEMA/Bush let him make that mistake?



Yup, of course the media will forget the huge stink he made on Monday bitching and moaning that the Feds were against his thoughless decision to invite people home. It's hard for me to recall a "leader" that's made so many mistakes captured on TV, interviews, etc. that blatantly claims to have done nothing wrong. The guy has major cajones and is as shameless as it gets.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 4:51:33 PM EDT
Thanks for the post, John.

Glad you're safe.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:36:04 PM EDT
John, glad you made it back. You done good.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:24:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 9:26:12 PM EDT by cmoth]
Here's a couple of links.

http://www.kcsafe.com/Longgun1.htm

http://www.hiddensafes.com/oak_file.htm

http://srci.tvcc.cc/catalog/gunhutch.htm (actually a cabinet not a safe but kinda neat).

http://www.firearmstorage.com/firearm_storage.html (similar to kcsafe link above)

http://www.storesonline.com/site/408162/product/HCC1854HCC (not really hidden but looks like a chest instead of a vertical cabinet)

http://www.emporium.co.nz/guncabinets.php (these are high end and extremely nice, they are also an obvious place someone would look for valuables)

These are what I could find on short notice. The ways to conceal and divert attention from your firearms are limited only by your imagination. If you can't find a commercially available option, build it yourself.

I couldn't find the one for the bed but, one of the wall units could be built into a box spring by someone with carpentry skills.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 4:32:10 AM EDT
You gave away your backup; you really do have a big heart!
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:49:09 AM EDT
Thanks for your service and hope you feel better.

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:10:27 PM EDT
Thanks for going down there to do the good work. These posts have been the most informative things I have read since this whole Charlie Foxtrot started.

Every person that waded through shitwater to help the unappreciative while taking fire from the ungovernable is brass balled and full of piss and vinegar.

Thanks to you guys, the whole of NO didn't eat itself (although I'm inclined to think next time we let 'em do it.).
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:24:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmoth:
Here's a couple of links.

www.kcsafe.com/Longgun1.htm

www.hiddensafes.com/oak_file.htm

srci.tvcc.cc/catalog/gunhutch.htm (actually a cabinet not a safe but kinda neat).

www.firearmstorage.com/firearm_storage.html (similar to kcsafe link above)

www.storesonline.com/site/408162/product/HCC1854HCC (not really hidden but looks like a chest instead of a vertical cabinet)

www.emporium.co.nz/guncabinets.php (these are high end and extremely nice, they are also an obvious place someone would look for valuables)

These are what I could find on short notice. The ways to conceal and divert attention from your firearms are limited only by your imagination. If you can't find a commercially available option, build it yourself.

I couldn't find the one for the bed but, one of the wall units could be built into a box spring by someone with carpentry skills.



Made 'em hot, 'cause I'm too lazy to cut and paste...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:50:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 7:38:36 AM EDT by SgtWhiting]
Johninaustin:

Thank you for your service and for the excellent observations from you and your fellow LEO's. I am duly impressed and in awe of the things you saw and did. A commendation for your work would never be enough.

I will admit to not liking some of the things some concerns I saw on the news with the NOPD officers and some of the state agencies sent there to help. Without going into detail about how I know this, I am still upset at the California Highway Patrol's response at NOLA and their complete and utter lack of training in this area. Not to mention some fellow LEO associates (LASO Swift Water Rescue Unit) whose camp was completely looted on the first day of their arrival while they were in the field.

With your express permission I would like to re-print your observations & comments to my officers at my police department and to the sheriff's substation in my area. I believe they would be invaluable as training information.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:26:13 PM EDT
GREAT write-up Johninaustin!

We were down there starting Labor day. We did a few days of clean-up SAR and then came home. That was the biggest dissapointment-having to come home so quick. LA DNR pulled our EMAC so we had to leave. We ran into one group of "mall-ninjas." They were walking MLK blvd. where we were launching our boats. There were 4 guys wearing all black BDU's with no body armor and "security officer" badges from chains. A couple had drop leg holsters and one had a shoulder holster. A few telltale signs: They all had black hoods stuffed in their back pockets, they all had one hell of a gangsta' walk about them.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 10:00:09 PM EDT
Thanks John, great post.



Originally Posted By cmoth:
Here's a couple of links.

http://www.emporium.co.nz/guncabinets.php (these are high end and extremely nice, they are also an obvious place someone would look for valuables)





Wonder what shipping from New Zealand would cost?


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