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Posted: 12/31/2002 5:42:13 PM EST
A Garden City Policeman made a routine traffic stop and another guy stopped behind the cruiser with a rifle and opened fire on the officer. The officer took off into the high school parking lot with the guy following and still shooting at him. Backup arrived within a couple of seconds and the bad guy was shot to death. I think a total of 14 rounds was shot by the bad guy. The officer was hit in both legs and is in stable condition. Sounds like the guy wanted to get shot more then wanted to kill someone. He was pretty close and didnt hit the officer in any vital areas other then the legs. This happened right outside my office! I am going to look for any stray round hits on the building when it gets light out. I am just glad the officer is doing well.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 5:46:31 PM EST
I'm glad the officer wasn't more badly injured, but I have to ask: Did the perp use a "sport utility rifle?"
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 5:49:14 PM EST
Hopefully it was a Marlin mod. 60.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 5:59:35 PM EST
No info on the types of weapons used. But my girlfriend heard that 14 rounds were fired and said thats a lot of bullets. And I was thinking, thats only about half my AR mag!
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 6:01:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARDOC: No info on the types of weapons used. But my girlfriend heard that 14 rounds were fired and said thats a lot of bullets. And I was thinking, thats only about half my AR mag!
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New Mod. 60's only hold 14 rounds...older ones held up to 18
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 6:12:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 6:21:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 6:27:10 PM EST
I'll admit it. I laughed. But, I'm a sick bastard.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 6:27:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 6:37:50 PM EST
My buddies at the hospital are telling me he should make a full recovery. I was just thinking what I would do if I saw this happening. My first reaction would be to help the officer with my weapon. The only other thing that I keep thinking of are the backup officers that would arrive on the scene and mistake me for the perp. Regardless I dont think I could sit there and watch an officer get gunned down.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 7:02:21 PM EST
Has this made the news yet? I can't find it anywhere on line. Post a link when it hits the front page please. Thanks,
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 7:09:58 PM EST
It just happened a few hours ago. The state police are still there investigating. It should be in the papers tomorrow. Its on the radio and TV now. Detnews.com
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:07:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARDOC: My buddies at the hospital are telling me he should make a full recovery. I was just thinking what I would do if I saw this happening. My first reaction would be to help the officer with my weapon. The only other thing that I keep thinking of are the backup officers that would arrive on the scene and mistake me for the perp. Regardless I dont think I could sit there and watch an officer get gunned down.
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It's not your responsibility to defend the officer. Do you know this officer? He could be one of the "prick" officers, or worse, a JBT. Why put your life in jeapordy when the "backup" officers would probably just shoot you?
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:11:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:18:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
Originally Posted By ARDOC: My buddies at the hospital are telling me he should make a full recovery. I was just thinking what I would do if I saw this happening. My first reaction would be to help the officer with my weapon. The only other thing that I keep thinking of are the backup officers that would arrive on the scene and mistake me for the perp. Regardless I dont think I could sit there and watch an officer get gunned down.
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It's not your responsibility to defend the officer. Do you know this officer? He could be one of the "prick" officers, or worse, a JBT. Why put your life in jeapordy when the "backup" officers would probably just shoot you?
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I see your point... Hell, why jump in if you see a woman being attacked, she may be a bitch or laughed at your advances one night. Pathetic comment. Pathetic mindset. Pathetic.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:27:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARDOC: A Garden City Policeman made a routine traffic stop and another guy stopped behind the cruiser
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I hate it when people do that. Stories like this are why it is NOT a good idea to stop and ask a cop for directions to the mall when he is in the middle of a car stop.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:32:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 8:33:58 PM EST by FireControlman]
hey [b]AR15fan[/b], which way to the Angels stadium? "I'm trying to get to Knotts Berry Farm.."
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:39:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
Originally Posted By ARDOC: My buddies at the hospital are telling me he should make a full recovery. I was just thinking what I would do if I saw this happening. My first reaction would be to help the officer with my weapon. The only other thing that I keep thinking of are the backup officers that would arrive on the scene and mistake me for the perp. Regardless I dont think I could sit there and watch an officer get gunned down.
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It's not your responsibility to defend the officer. Do you know this officer? He could be one of the "prick" officers, or worse, a JBT. Why put your life in jeapordy when the "backup" officers would probably just shoot you?
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since when is it not every citizen's responsibility to defend or protect our fellow americans? Police officer or not (most of which are good- take off the tin foil hat!)
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:56:51 PM EST
Actually I do know this officer, at least I know who he is. The city is small and the officers tend to be in the ER and the hospital a lot. We also play a benefit hockey game every year. Cops vs. the Docs. I am glad to report we beat them again this year! But it was close after a shootout and overtime.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:57:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By crumabn: since when is it not every citizen's responsibility to defend or protect our fellow americans? Police officer or not (most of which are good- take off the tin foil hat!)
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Since when IS it your responsibility to protect others, especially strangers? It's every individual's [b]own[/b] responsibility for their own safety - or don't you people believe your own arguments for concealed carry laws?
Originally Posted By FiveO: I see your point... Hell, why jump in if you see a woman being attacked, she may be a bitch or laughed at your advances one night. Pathetic comment. Pathetic mindset. Pathetic.
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And a pathetic response from you. I'll ask it again: why would you come to the cop's aid when he and his backup will order you to drop your weapon or just shoot you right there? Why would you put yourself in that position? So none of you have ever paid attention to the real life stories told in this forum on this very subject?
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:03:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:09:56 PM EST
All I have to say is Corporal Upham!
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:25:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARDOC: Actually I do know this officer, at least I know who he is. The city is small and the officers tend to be in the ER and the hospital a lot. We also play a benefit hockey game every year. Cops vs. the Docs. I am glad to report we beat them again this year! But it was close after a shootout and overtime.
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That's different, then, sounded like he was a stranger who would just as soon point the gun at you. Next time you talk to him you should ask him how he would feel about you defending him (assuming you were carrying at the time). Still, there's a risk that the backup cops wouldn't know you, shoot first and ask questions later.
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Note to self--count on someone other than [b]Kroagnon[/b] to watch my six. [rolleyes]
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I'd watch your back if I had good reason to believe you'd back me up in statements to the LEOs and not turn me in for "assaulting" you. You know, like how a number of folks that participate in this forum have been treated in said situation? Note that I haven't heard anybody else here state that they would actually defend a stranger from attack with their firearm... me thinks alot of you really agree with me but don't want to admit it publicly. I'm not one who's scared of talking about "sensitive" topics.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:28:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2002 9:30:43 PM EST by FiveO]
Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
Originally Posted By crumabn: since when is it not every citizen's responsibility to defend or protect our fellow americans? Police officer or not (most of which are good- take off the tin foil hat!)
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Since when IS it your responsibility to protect others, especially strangers? It's every individual's [b]own[/b] responsibility for their own safety - or don't you people believe your own arguments for concealed carry laws?
Originally Posted By FiveO: I see your point... Hell, why jump in if you see a woman being attacked, she may be a bitch or laughed at your advances one night. Pathetic comment. Pathetic mindset. Pathetic.
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And a pathetic response from you. I'll ask it again: why would you come to the cop's aid when he and his backup will order you to drop your weapon or just shoot you right there? Why would you put yourself in that position? So none of you have ever paid attention to the real life stories told in this forum on this very subject?
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ARDOC stated "My first reaction would be to help the officer with my weapon. Regardless I dont think I could sit there and watch an officer get gunned down." Says alot about him that that was HIS FIRST REACTION! He never said it was his RESPONSIBILITY. Some people RISE to the occasion, some slither under a rock and make excuses. Shit, help the guy. When backup arrives put your gun down and your hands up, or get on the fing ground. Are you afraid of getting your shirt dirty? You are talking about a man's life. But hey, if your position is "every man for himself, screw anyone else" then have a good life, Lone Ranger. Your first response is "Fuck that cop. He may be a JBT." Plus your quote, "Since when IS it your responsibility to protect others, especially strangers? It's every individual's own responsibility for their own safety ..." says alot about you too Bud. I say again, "PATHETIC."
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:53:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
Originally Posted By ARDOC: I was just thinking what I would do if I saw this happening. My first reaction would be to help the officer with my weapon. .[b]
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It's not your responsibility to defend the officer. Do you know this officer? He could be one of the "prick" officers, or worse, a JBT. Why put your life in jeapordy when the "backup" officers would probably just shoot you?
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[/b] We used to have a name for people like you... Asshole, yeah that's it, asshole.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:54:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 9:59:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 10:21:16 PM EST
Michigan defense of others law is funny. You can use deadly force to defend your family, your servants, and perhaps your friends (the maybe comes from the fact that one of the two main cases was a black household full of family and friends under attack by the Black Legion). Strangers are not someone you can use deadly force to defend as a legal defense. If you defend a stranger in Michigan with your gun you are totally depending on the prosecution not charging you---a stupid bet in wayne county.
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 11:02:23 PM EST
Happy to report, the officer Known as John Doe to protect him is doing well. Multiple GSWs to his legs. Looks like he took one to the shoulder that was stopped by his vest. The shoulder looked pretty bruised. Obviously he must have been shot by a pistol caliber carbine of some sort or was damn lucky. Most rifle caliber shootings I have seen just zip right through the kevlar. A Detroit cop I help treat in the ER was shot with several 7.62 AK rounds. Just zipped right through. Nice round holes. Not much tissue damage. I apologize for bringing up such a heated topic. We can only be responsible for our own actions. I know what I have to do and will do. Someone else will consider other options. And this is OK.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 4:55:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: Michigan defense of others law is funny. You can use deadly force to defend your family, your servants, and perhaps your friends (the maybe comes from the fact that one of the two main cases was a black household full of family and friends under attack by the Black Legion). Strangers are not someone you can use deadly force to defend as a legal defense. If you defend a stranger in Michigan with your gun you are totally depending on the prosecution not charging you---a stupid bet in wayne county.
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Something tells me that if you shot the bad guy shooting and saved the cops ass, you would be alright in a court of law. Cops stick together and have lots of friends, I think you would be hard pressed to get charged with a crime. But I'm not a legal expert, just stating my opinion.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 5:16:14 AM EST
It's not your responsibility to defend the officer. Do you know this officer? He could be one of the "prick" officers, or worse, a JBT. Why put your life in jeapordy when the "backup" officers would probably just shoot you?
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Did you ever think that the reason some LEO's have an attitude towards certain civilians, is because those civilians attitude is the same as yours????? How can you sit there and basically say "Fuck that cop, he's on his own"? What if that cop got killed because you did nothing to help him? And people wonder why there is such an "us vs. them" attitude between law enforcement and civilians in this country [:(] Yes, there are a lot of shitty cops, but there are a hell of a lot more civilians that are ASSHOLES! ARDOC, We all know your heart and head were, and will be in the right place.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 5:42:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2003 5:44:30 AM EST by Silence]
Originally Posted By JH225: Did you ever think that the reason some LEO's have an attitude towards certain civilians, is because those civilians attitude is the same as yours????? How can you sit there and basically say "Fuck that cop, he's on his own"? What if that cop got killed because you did nothing to help him?
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Legally speaking you are not required to do ANYTHING to help ANYBODY at anytime. If somebody makes the moral decision to say 'fuck em, he is on his own' that is a perfectly legal and valid moral choice (and in some areas with trigger happy cops I would say it would be the smart thing to do, especially if you happen to be on of the lower classes). Same as cops make when they decide whether or not to help 'civilians' in trouble. (thinks back to Comlumbine and cops hiding outside while kids were dying inside).
And people wonder why there is such an "us vs. them" attitude between law enforcement and civilians in this country [:(] Yes, there are a lot of shitty cops, but there are a hell of a lot more civilians that are ASSHOLES!
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I dunno, seems alot of LEOs think they are something special. LEOs only have one power I dont as a citizen, that is the ability to arrest people for crimes they did not personally witness. The rest of the priveledges (immunities to certain gun laws, etc) that the LEOs have been given are just so much horseshit and should be removed. 'Civilians' have the RIGHT to be assholes. LEOs as public servants DONT. Remember the motto is supposed to be 'Protect and serve', not 'Enslave and Dominate'.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 5:44:11 AM EST
Not coming to the rescue of someone in need is exactly whats wrong with this country. Not the only thing but a big one. Too many people just turn their heads and say it's not their problem. Well, someday it could be. I am just a military cop but I treat everyone with respect until they start becoming disrespectful. If an individual wants to ruin his/her career or life over a speeding ticket so be it. I will always come to the aide of anyone that needs it. Regardless of possible legal ramifications. Kroagnon you are a tool. [V]
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 6:46:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Barrel-BurnerM2HB: I am just a military cop but I treat everyone with respect until they start becoming disrespectful. [V]
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"Just" a military cop? You sir are lacking in self esteem. I rank LE's in any branch of the military well above civilian patrol officers when it comes to discipline, training and professionalism. The standards that they must adhere to (the Manual for Courts Martial, UCMJ, etc.) are unquestionable. I should know, I was one. [:)]
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 6:55:11 AM EST
you guys aren't gonna like me much. if it had been here and a sheriff's deputy i'd have helped but if it had been one of the city kitties well "AIM HIGHER DUDE ALL YA DID WAS SHOOT HIM IN THE LEG< DON'T LET THAT F***** GET AWAY!"
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:25:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By kernal_panic: you guys aren't gonna like me much. if it had been here and a sheriff's deputy i'd have helped but if it had been one of the city kitties well "AIM HIGHER DUDE ALL YA DID WAS SHOOT HIM IN THE LEG< DON'T LET THAT F***** GET AWAY!"
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Its better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 7:51:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By KOW:
Originally Posted By kernal_panic: you guys aren't gonna like me much. if it had been here and a sheriff's deputy i'd have helped but if it had been one of the city kitties well "AIM HIGHER DUDE ALL YA DID WAS SHOOT HIM IN THE LEG< DON'T LET THAT F***** GET AWAY!"
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Its better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
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Ain't *that* the truth. Must be a slow day in the trailer park...
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:03:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kroagnon: It's not your responsibility to defend the officer. Why put your life in jeapordy when the "backup" officers would probably just shoot you?
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Because it's the right thing to do. Panzer Out
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:40:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 9:38:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By Venerated:
Originally Posted By Barrel-BurnerM2HB: I am just a military cop but I treat everyone with respect until they start becoming disrespectful. [V]
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"Just" a military cop? You sir are lacking in self esteem. I rank LE's in any branch of the military well above civilian patrol officers when it comes to discipline, training and professionalism. The standards that they must adhere to (the Manual for Courts Martial, UCMJ, etc.) are unquestionable. I should know, I was one. [:)]
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I don't lack self-esteem. Yes we may have high levels of discipline and professionalism but training lacks and we don't get the hands on experience a civilian leo has. You should see the individuals that join the military these days. Assclowns. [grenade]
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:02:04 AM EST
Kroagnon, you are ridiculous. Please move out of this country and stop fouling up our air. I think the word pathetic has been tossed a few times, but I will toss it again. PATHETIC!!!!!!!POS
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:21:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 10:28:18 AM EST
it sure didn't take this one long to go down the tubes... let's see. we have a nutcase with a rifle and a cop doing his job. nutcase tries to murder said cop...and some of you guys are cheering on the nutcase? or wouldn't try to help the cop? that's sad.
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