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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:26:36 AM EST
Not sure if already posted but...

"When you shoot a gun, you take it out and point and shoot, and I don't necessarily think eyesight is necessary," Michael Barber, who is blind, told the paper.

WTF….
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:29:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 10:31:46 AM EST by FrankDrebin]
In for the butthurt....



Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:30:24 AM EST
Permits?

Fuck that.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:31:36 AM EST
Visually disabled people have a right to self defense, too.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:33:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 10:34:39 AM EST by California_Kid]
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

About 80% who are legally blind (which is a tax code term, not a medical one) have some vision.

One way a person can qualify as blind for tax purposes is to have his or her visual field reduced to 20% of normal. There are people who have a very limited field, but good acuity (the 20/xx measurement) within that field. They can shoot just fine.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:33:01 AM EST
Wasn't there a member here who is a paraphalegic who got his CHL so that he could keep a weapon on his person for his family to use?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:34:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.
View Quote


How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:34:19 AM EST
A blind guy with a shotgun gives me pause.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:35:28 AM EST
Doesn't say anything about vision in the 2nd amendment. Why does he even need a permit though? Should be able to walk in and buy one without question.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:35:28 AM EST
OP why do you hate freedom?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:35:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 10:36:43 AM EST by California_Kid]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers. I don't care if the person uses echolocation like a bat to find the target.

Originally Posted By CWO:
A blind guy with a shotgun gives me pause.

That's the whole idea.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:35:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:36:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By California_Kid:

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers.
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Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers.


do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:36:32 AM EST
he is a citizen just like you and me. Unless he proves that he can not be trusted with a right then he should maintain that right regardless of his disability.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:37:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:


do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers.


do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?


Even if he never even takes it out of the box should he be denied the ability to own it?


nope.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:37:46 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Senoj:
Wasn't there a member here who is a paraphalegic who got his CHL so that he could keep a weapon on his person for his family to use?
View Quote


Uncle War Wagon?

Not a bad idea.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:37:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 10:40:10 AM EST by California_Kid]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:

do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers.

do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?

I don't care how they do it, as long as they can. I trust most people to be the best judges of whether or not they should carry weapons. Being blind doesn't mean you are stupid or that you have impaired judgement.

ETA I am legally blind in one eye. It's amblyopic, so there is essentially no vision in the center where most people have their best acuity. I've tried shooting with that eye. If that was the extent of my vision, I would NOT carry a firearm.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:40:14 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By California_Kid:

I don't care how they do it, as long as they can. I trust most people to be the best judges of whether or not they should carry weapons. Being blind doesn't mean you are stupid or that you have impaired judgement.
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Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers.

do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?

I don't care how they do it, as long as they can. I trust most people to be the best judges of whether or not they should carry weapons. Being blind doesn't mean you are stupid or that you have impaired judgement.


If they can negotiate a shoot house with shoot and don't shoot targets, then give them a permit.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:40:28 AM EST
My son asked me about this last night. I told him that "It's not the State's right to tell me how I can defend myself, regardless of any impairment. If a blind guy shoots someone by accident, then he is responsible." When he looked at me skeptically, I said "The state shouldn't limit what you can do simply because something bad MIGHT happen. If a blind man were to shoot the wrong person, he should be tried for manslaughter."
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:41:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:

If they can negotiate a shoot house with shoot and don't shoot targets, then give them a permit.
View Quote

I suspect that a high percentage of normally sighted people with CCW permits can't do that.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:41:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By delemorte:


Even if he never even takes it out of the box should he be denied the ability to own it?


nope.
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers.


do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?


Even if he never even takes it out of the box should he be denied the ability to own it?


nope.


I have no problem with ownership, the way the article reads is by "gun permit" they are taking about a conceal carry license. I'm not sure how I feel about someone who can't even read the application carry a firearm in public were a lot of variables are involved in a shooting situation.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:42:01 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By California_Kid:

I don't care how they do it, as long as they can. I trust most people to be the best judges of whether or not they should carry weapons. Being blind doesn't mean you are stupid or that you have impaired judgement.

ETA I am legally blind in one eye. It's amblyopic, so there is essentially no vision in the center where most people have their best acuity. I've tried shooting with that eye. If that was the extent of my vision, I would NOT carry a firearm.
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Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.

How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?

You have someone read you the questions, and you dictate the answers.

do you have someone dictate the targets from the non targets as well?

I don't care how they do it, as long as they can. I trust most people to be the best judges of whether or not they should carry weapons. Being blind doesn't mean you are stupid or that you have impaired judgement.

ETA I am legally blind in one eye. It's amblyopic, so there is essentially no vision in the center where most people have their best acuity. I've tried shooting with that eye. If that was the extent of my vision, I would NOT carry a firearm.


Agree however your right to own should not be dictated by your ability to use or the usefulness of that tool. so even if you had no arms and no eyes you should not be denied your right as a citizen unless you have been proven to dangerous to own one.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:42:20 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By R2point0:
My son asked me about this last night. I told him that "It's not the State's right to tell me how I can defend myself, regardless of any impairment. If a blind guy shoots someone by accident, then he is responsible." When he looked at me skeptically, I said "The state shouldn't limit what you can do simply because something bad MIGHT happen. If a blind man were to shoot the wrong person, he should be tried for manslaughter."
View Quote


Should a severely mentally retarded person (sub-70 IQ) be in the same boat?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:42:21 AM EST
seems like they would have a very tough time with rule 4
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:42:48 AM EST
I'm not seeing the problem with this.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:43:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
I'm not seeing the problem with this.
View Quote


Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:43:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By delemorte:

Agree however your right to own should not be dictated by your ability to use or the usefulness of that tool. so even if you had no arms and no eyes you should not be denied your right as a citizen unless you have been proven to dangerous to own one.
View Quote

I agree with this. There are people who are unable to drive but own cars. That is not a problem for anyone.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:48:58 AM EST
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Originally Posted By FrankDrebin:


Should a severely mentally retarded person (sub-70 IQ) be in the same boat?
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Originally Posted By FrankDrebin:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
My son asked me about this last night. I told him that "It's not the State's right to tell me how I can defend myself, regardless of any impairment. If a blind guy shoots someone by accident, then he is responsible." When he looked at me skeptically, I said "The state shouldn't limit what you can do simply because something bad MIGHT happen. If a blind man were to shoot the wrong person, he should be tried for manslaughter."


Should a severely mentally retarded person (sub-70 IQ) be in the same boat?


maybe maybe not. I don't know enough about mental deficiency to know what someone with an IQ of 69 is like.


can they tell the difference between right and wrong? Are they mentally stable? then sure why not? If they dont know what right and wrong are or cant tell what is real and make believe or lack the ability of self control then yea not so much. however mental deficiency and physical handicap are not the same here because when it comes down to it the act of shooting someone was a thought out decision not just some random physical response.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:49:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
I'm not seeing the problem with this.
View Quote

i laughed
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:50:27 AM EST
WTF is a "gun permit"
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:52:59 AM EST
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Originally Posted By California_Kid:

I agree with this. There are people who are unable to drive but own cars. That is not a problem for anyone.
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Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By delemorte:

Agree however your right to own should not be dictated by your ability to use or the usefulness of that tool. so even if you had no arms and no eyes you should not be denied your right as a citizen unless you have been proven to dangerous to own one.

I agree with this. There are people who are unable to drive but own cars. That is not a problem for anyone.


They can't even pass retesting of older drivers without someone crowing about "limiting their freedom".

Seems to me that the right to a firearm is a lot more clear than the right to drive on the roads.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:54:11 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:
WTF is a "gun permit"
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come to NC ill show you
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:54:26 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:
WTF is a "gun permit"
View Quote

Iowa is one of a few states that require a state-issued permit for a person to buy a handgun.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:55:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 10:55:29 AM EST by California_Kid]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


They can't even pass retesting of older drivers without someone crowing about "limiting their freedom".

Seems to me that the right to a firearm is a lot more clear than the right to drive on the roads.
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Originally Posted By delemorte:

Agree however your right to own should not be dictated by your ability to use or the usefulness of that tool. so even if you had no arms and no eyes you should not be denied your right as a citizen unless you have been proven to dangerous to own one.

I agree with this. There are people who are unable to drive but own cars. That is not a problem for anyone.


They can't even pass retesting of older drivers without someone crowing about "limiting their freedom".

Seems to me that the right to a firearm is a lot more clear than the right to drive on the roads.

Owning a car != Driving on the road.

Stevie Wonder owns several high-end cars.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:56:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By delemorte:

come to NC ill show you
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By Ragin_Cajun:
WTF is a "gun permit"

come to NC ill show you


Based upon the article, they appear to mean CCW permits and not New York-style licenses to purchase a gun.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:57:38 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By guitarmonkey55:
Doesn't say anything about vision in the 2nd amendment. Why does he even need a permit though? Should be able to walk in and buy one without question.
View Quote

Iowa requires permits to own handguns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Iowa
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:02:29 AM EST
I went to a gun show with a friend.

He brough this blind friend. Degree of blindness I have no idea, but he had to be led around the show and be told what guns he was being handed.

Dude was looking for a CCW piece.

I still at the whole idea.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:04:23 AM EST
I have a much bigger problem with the fact that a permit is even required in the first place.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:05:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:05:38 AM EST
They ought to require eye tests before anyone is allowed to obtain a permit to carry a gun for self defense......................not really.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:06:55 AM EST
From a legal point of view, I'm fine with it. He's still responsible for what he does with it, same as you or me.

Not okay with the permit, though. Just let the dude buy what he wants.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:06:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:


How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.


How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?


That amorphous blob yelling "give me yo' money fo' I cut you!" is a properly identified target.

And after many hours on pistol ranges I'm, convinced about a third of shooters are legally blind anyway.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:07:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:


How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?
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Originally Posted By DukeFan23:
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
If a person can distinguish between a target and a non-target, and hit the target reliably, I don't care what senses are involved.


How can you do that when your vision is so bad you can't even read the ccw application in front of your face?



get out commie

no logic allowed thank you
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:07:18 AM EST
"Shall not infringe..."

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:08:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By geekz0r:

Iowa requires permits to own handguns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Iowa
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Originally Posted By geekz0r:
Originally Posted By guitarmonkey55:
Doesn't say anything about vision in the 2nd amendment. Why does he even need a permit though? Should be able to walk in and buy one without question.

Iowa requires permits to own handguns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Iowa

Not to own, only to acquire.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:08:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
If they can negotiate a shoot house with shoot and don't shoot targets, then give them a permit.
View Quote


Why impose tougher standards than on the rest of us?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:09:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By FrankDrebin:


Should a severely mentally retarded person (sub-70 IQ) be in the same boat?
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Originally Posted By FrankDrebin:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
My son asked me about this last night. I told him that "It's not the State's right to tell me how I can defend myself, regardless of any impairment. If a blind guy shoots someone by accident, then he is responsible." When he looked at me skeptically, I said "The state shouldn't limit what you can do simply because something bad MIGHT happen. If a blind man were to shoot the wrong person, he should be tried for manslaughter."


Should a severely mentally retarded person (sub-70 IQ) be in the same boat?



get out commie

just because a gun can kill someone stone dead with a tiny press on a trigger

who says you need any ability to see your target or the brainpower to use the gun responsibly?

fuck that shit
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:11:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By midmo:
"Shall not infringe..."

View Quote


This should be the only response in this thread.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:11:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 11:14:10 AM EST by delemorte]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cyborg543:



get out commie

just because a gun can kill someone stone dead with a tiny press on a trigger

who says you need any ability to see your target or the brainpower to use the gun responsibly?

fuck that shit
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Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Originally Posted By FrankDrebin:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
My son asked me about this last night. I told him that "It's not the State's right to tell me how I can defend myself, regardless of any impairment. If a blind guy shoots someone by accident, then he is responsible." When he looked at me skeptically, I said "The state shouldn't limit what you can do simply because something bad MIGHT happen. If a blind man were to shoot the wrong person, he should be tried for manslaughter."


Should a severely mentally retarded person (sub-70 IQ) be in the same boat?



get out commie

just because a gun can kill someone stone dead with a tiny press on a trigger

who says you need any ability to see your target or the brainpower to use the gun responsibly?

fuck that shit



Cars kill far more people every year and they are still handing out licenses to women and Asians every day.






ETA. Who said shit about using the gun responsibly? we are talking about ownership. Do i think he could engage a target in a crowded mall? Hell no. Does not mean he should be denied the right to own or carry one.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:13:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:


Why impose tougher standards than on the rest of us?
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Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Originally Posted By WilliamGray:
If they can negotiate a shoot house with shoot and don't shoot targets, then give them a permit.


Why impose tougher standards than on the rest of us?



yeah, reality is for fags
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:14:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By delemorte:



Cars kill far more people every year and they are still handing out licenses to women and Asians every day.


http://youtu.be/pezdwLmU2H4
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Originally Posted By FrankDrebin:
Originally Posted By R2point0:
My son asked me about this last night. I told him that "It's not the State's right to tell me how I can defend myself, regardless of any impairment. If a blind guy shoots someone by accident, then he is responsible." When he looked at me skeptically, I said "The state shouldn't limit what you can do simply because something bad MIGHT happen. If a blind man were to shoot the wrong person, he should be tried for manslaughter."


Should a severely mentally retarded person (sub-70 IQ) be in the same boat?



get out commie

just because a gun can kill someone stone dead with a tiny press on a trigger

who says you need any ability to see your target or the brainpower to use the gun responsibly?

fuck that shit



Cars kill far more people every year and they are still handing out licenses to women and Asians every day.


http://youtu.be/pezdwLmU2H4





arf never dissapoints
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