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Posted: 1/24/2006 7:28:36 PM EDT
I'm selling a rifle on another forum. Going to the PO for a MO is beyond the guy so I agree to take a personal check and wait for it to clear. Check comes last Thur and I deposit it Friday. Today I get an email asking if the gun is on the way and what the tracking number is !? WTF. Been 2 business days since I put the check in the bank. I gently remind the dude about the 'wait until check clears ' part of our deal and say I will check with the bank Wed and if the check has cleared the gun will go out Wed via Priority Mail. Should take 3 days although the last took about 9 { sent on Jan 4, PO musta still be behind from the holidays I guess }.

So I get this email back :

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, and I certainly do not doubt that
that is what the bank told you, however federal law put into effect in
2005 requires banks to process checks and clear or deny them overnight. I
have another firearm waiting to be picked up from my FFL. I can't pick
that one up until yours shows up, or it costs me another 25 bucks in
transfer fees. Please tell your bank to get on with it so you can get that
rifle out the door. Couple of quick hints about shipping firearms through
the US postal service. Have it packaged before you get to the postoffice
and do not say it is a gun. I have been told by persons working for UPS
and FEDEX that the post office will set it aside until an ATF agent gets
there opens it, Checks the FFL, and then ok's it for shipping This could
explain why it took the last one you shipped nine days. Also, most post
offices send the mail out twice a day, once in the morning, usually 10 or
11am and then again at the end of the day. If you could get this out
tomorrow morning I would really appreciate it.

Thank you, I'm sure you're doing your best to get this out ASAP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did a www search and fed law says the bank must make the funds available within 5 days on out of state checks ! He's FOS

The part about not telling the PO that it is a gun could potentially land a person in prison. This guy is a complete idiot !!

I have offered him two ways to get his money back, paypal or my personal check. Actually I think a PO money order will be the best now that I think of it.

rj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:34:55 PM EDT
Just call your bank and tell them to get on with it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:35:07 PM EDT
USPS MO w/signature receipt! That way it's not "lost" in the mail.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:36:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 7:37:06 PM EDT by Max_Mike]
If you don’t wait a minimum of 2 week you are making a mistake… I have recently seen checks from other people come back after 2+ weeks and after the bank has said they cleared.

And that e-mail raises all sorts of red flags… one is the lie about the Federal law on checks and he wants you to lie to a federal employee.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:36:46 PM EDT
10 bucks says the check bounces
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:39:22 PM EDT
My first instinct tells me the check is going to bounce and he wants the gun shipped before its determined NSF. At least run the FFL number to make sure the receiving FFL is legit in the event the check clears.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:39:42 PM EDT
good call on your part.

Oh thanks for the model 110 stock info... I decided to just paint the stock that I have.

Thanks again!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:43:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hank_Rearden1:
good call on your part.

Oh thanks for the model 110 stock info... I decided to just paint the stock that I have.

Thanks again!



I'm glad you didn't buy my stock because now I'm going to use it !! I am going to buy me a 260 Rem bbl and have me another rifle.

rj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:43:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJshooter:
10 bucks says the check bounces



+1

If he wanted speed he should have sent a Postal MO… On a check he does my way on not, and he waits as long as I say. If he don’t like it he gets his money back after I am sure the check cleared in 3 weeks.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:45:44 PM EDT
From what I have know, theu dont HAVE to run them over night, but they can cCAN run it as soon as they get it. I would wait, and if he bitches, send his money back. If you stated "wait till clears" your good on your part.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:46:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
If you don’t wait a minimum of 2 week you are making a mistake… I have recently seen checks from other people come back after 2+ weeks and after the bank has said they cleared.

And that e-mail raises all sorts of red flags… one is the lie about the Federal law on checks and he wants you to lie to a federal employee.



No shit ? I ain't sending no refund for a while then.

rj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:49:29 PM EDT
Getting a MO from the USPS is easy and I'm sure his local office isn't too far for him to have gotten one. It may not be easy, but personal checks won't fly with me unless I know the guy/gal.

HH
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:49:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:56:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:
So I get this email back :
-----------------------------------------------------------------
snip...

Please tell your bank to get on with it ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------






You hop right on that now rj,

ya hear!

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:56:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 7:57:19 PM EDT by rlc]
IIRC, and i could be wrong, but the law that passed was called check 21, it allowed the banks to use a copy of a written check to be transmitted to another bank electronically, not the original check, (which may take days to be shipped or mailed to another bank)
not sure if it applied to how long the bank has to clear it,


ETA, he is being a PITA if he is too lazy or cheap to get a MO, and then expects you to jump asap
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:56:48 PM EDT
Backtracking now :
----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what seems to have upset you so much but I am sorry. First
off, I only know what my bank told me and if I got a line and I'm wrong
then ok, sorry, my fault. Second, I was not aware that you had to claim it
as a firearm. I wasn't asking you to break the law. Again I appologize. I
sure didn't mean to offend you and I'm sorry, I was just confused
apparently and thought you were being given a line about the check. As for
the post office, hey I never sent a gun with them and only knew what the
guys at UPS and FEDEX told me about sending firearms throught the post,
apparently they aren't as knowledgeable as they would have me believe.
Again I am sorry if I offended you, but I really wish you would have sent
me a reply before you made a post like that. I'd appreciate it if you
would remove it but its up to you. If its all the same and your bank says
it cleared tomorrow then I would still appreciate it if you sent it out
however you had originally planned. Again my appologies.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He seems to be well set up with an FFL so I don't know ??
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:59:01 PM EDT
Backtracking right along :
--------------------------------------------------
I really wish you would reconsider. I sincerely did not mean to offend you
or ask you to do anything that you know to be against the law. I ask that
you just go ahead with your original plan and ship the rifle to my FFL at
your convience. I will wait with my mouth shut, again my appologies for
any offense or inconvienence I may have caused you.

--------------------------------------------------------------

rj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:04:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rlc:
IIRC, and i could be wrong, but the law that passed was called check 21, it allowed the banks to use a copy of a written check to be transmitted to another bank electronically, not the original check, (which may take days to be shipped or mailed to another bank)
not sure if it applied to how long the bank has to clear it,


ETA, he is being a PITA if he is too lazy or cheap to get a MO, and then expects you to jump asap



It's a separate Fed law that says how long the banks have to post the funds to your acct.

It does get me to popping and banging { ref. overheated engine } when people pull the BS in part 2 of your post. If he had paid with a USPS MO like I requested I would have cashed the MO at the PO when I shipped out his rifle last Friday !
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:04:36 PM EDT
Is he a member here?
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:06:22 PM EDT
I own a small business, and take a lot of checks, I have deposited them, and had them credited to my account, and if they bounce, it is usually 10 to 14 days before you will know, and the money is removed from your account, as far as the law about overnight check clearing, it means the bank can now clear them electronically overnight, but they don't have to. So please don't send this goob his money back! I can almost always tell when a check will bounce, if I am running the store, I will deny them, but I can't always control the checks my employees take. when I list them for deposit, I will check the ones I feel will bounce, and they usually do. Screw him, and wait!
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:08:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:
Backtracking right along :
--------------------------------------------------
I really wish you would reconsider. I sincerely did not mean to offend you
or ask you to do anything that you know to be against the law. I ask that
you just go ahead with your original plan and ship the rifle to my FFL at
your convience. I will wait with my mouth shut, again my appologies for
any offense or inconvienence I may have caused you.

--------------------------------------------------------------

rj




And that's what I would do.
Proceed with caution. Make sure check clears for certain.
I have heard of a few deals go south after check supposedly cleared.
And FFL means nothing. Gun goes to FFL, he pays transfer fee and walks out with gun. BFD.

Most everyone is saying the same but I thought I would chime in.
I always use a CC or MO to avoid just this kind of shit and so should he.

drj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:09:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:
. Screw him, and wait!



10-4

rj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:09:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dreemweaver:
Is he a member here?



I really doubt it.

rj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:10:26 PM EDT
I would send him his check back.

Sell the gun to someone else who is less a pain in the ass.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:12:45 PM EDT
This resembles the Nigerian scammers. As soon as you get their rubber check they make demands and after you send them an attitude adjustment they go into detailed "I so sorry for offending you."
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:16:08 PM EDT
Sounds like he was given bad info, took it for gospel, and he's feeling like an ass. I'd say wait it out and ship the rifle, but don't give him a hard time.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:16:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
I would send him his check back.

Sell the gun to someone else who is less a pain in the ass.



I have already deposited the damn thing.

Here is what I am going to tell him tomorrow:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

After talking to some small business owners about returned checks, in 14 days you can have the rifle or the MO. Your choice.

------------------------------------------------------------

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:16:51 PM EDT
I'm still waiting for the money from that nigerian prince, I gave him my account #'s but still haven't seen the money, I thought I had a couple g in my account, but now I'm broke, but when he deposits my check, cha-ching! harhar
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:19:24 PM EDT
This thread reaffirms why I will only accept USPS MOs for transactions like this.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:23:01 PM EDT
Rjay, sounds like a smart choice, he's the one that put himself on the clock, not you, so if the deal costs him an extra 25, thats his fault, not yours. GOOD LUCK! I hope the deal goes through as planned, so you won't have to go through the trouble of reselling it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:26:25 PM EDT
I would say the price just went up.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:27:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:
Rjay, sounds like a smart choice, he's the one that put himself on the clock, not you, so if the deal costs him an extra 25, thats his fault, not yours. GOOD LUCK! I hope the deal goes through as planned, so you won't have to go through the trouble of reselling it.



When I was boxing it up I was asking myself why I was selling it. I will just buy a 260 Rem bbl for it and live happily ever after { $165.00 in SS !! }

rj
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:53:12 PM EDT
RJ, If you decide to keep it, tell him he did offend you, and also advised you to commit a crime, and you would rather not do business with him, but from the sound of it, him claiming to know all about shipping firearms, leading on as if he is a pro. at it, if he was, he would understand the check clearing thing. The check will probably bounce, negating the whole deal anyway. Don't write any checks on that deposit either, I'm sure you knew that, already, just a friendly reminder.... Treeman
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:11:00 PM EDT
YOU DONT HAVE TO (AND SHOULDN'T) DISCLOSE ANYTHING AS A FIREARM TO THE USPS, UPS, OR FEDEX. MORE CHANCES OF THEFT. EVEN UPS ASKS GUN STORES TO NOT MARK THE BOX AS A FIREARM OR ANYTHING RELATING TO FIREARM.

Jesus, I've been doing this for almost 10 years and I hate to hear misinformation that could cost you a "lost" firearm!


- rem
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:18:50 PM EDT
The law he is refering to is called check 21 as was mentioned by someone else. It allows for checks to be processed almost imediately, it does not mean that the will have cleared. Sometimes you can call the bank that the check was drawn on and find out if their client has the funds to cover the check in question. it is still a good idea t wait a week or two to make sure that the check actually does clear. Your customer should be okay with this because he did not want the inconvenience of going to the PO for a M/O.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:32:47 PM EDT
What nerve! If I was you I'd tell him to STFU and wait. It was his bright idea to pay with a personal check, so he can just sit and spin on it until it clears.

Galland

Link Posted: 1/24/2006 9:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 9:58:38 PM EDT by jpman7]

Originally Posted By FMJshooter:
10 bucks says the check bounces

+1 And this is why you NEVER take a personal check for online transactions. He seems to be familiar with the concept of the US Post Office. I tell people that I sell to on Ebay, that they have to send me a US Post Office money order. If they don't want to then they can buy from someone else! Period, end of story. You want to buy my stuff, you play by my rules. Simple, easy, and fair.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:20:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:


I did a www search and fed law says the bank must make the funds available within 5 days on out of state checks ! He's FOS he


rj

There is NO law stating that you must tell the post office it is a rifle.
You do have to tell a common carrier ( ups, fedex ) but the post office are different cant mail handguns, But no requirement to tell them when mailing a long gun
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:28:04 PM EDT
You have to inform them if you are shipping a firearm and if it is a rifle. No big deal and the ATF does NOT check the damn thing. I shipped a lower receiver to GA from OK about 8 mos ago with no hassles.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 2:20:56 AM EDT
Take a personal check for a gun?

personal check =

If he's got his panties in a wad over timing & he CHOSE to send a personal check, kill the deal. He's up to no damn good.

Bitch slap him.



U.S.Postal M/O only, period, end of discussion. You then have the full faith & credit of the U.S. Government and all the JBT's in the Postal Inspectors office who will enlist the BATF when a firearm and postal fraud is involved.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:30:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sta1treeman:
I'm still waiting for the money from that nigerian prince, I gave him my account #'s but still haven't seen the money, I thought I had a couple g in my account, but now I'm broke, but when he deposits my check, cha-ching! harhar



Yes, Yes, please keep patience with me a tid bit longer. It is my shame and regret that you not have transfer of funds. There are much greater sums to transfer than our original to speak of. You will most assuradly receive all promise sums and very more. Due to such extreme funds please submit valid CC number+exp.date, Social Security #, ATM card (w/PIN) and blank (but signed) bank check so that may I further to expidite tranfers of great money sums. I am at trusting you at great risk to my person. I am great fear of "hammer of death" and "the Governor " so please do not disappoint myself and yourself.

With the great sincerity and apoligize,

Your Nigerian Friend
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:37:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:37:50 AM EDT
Tell him the rifle will ship when the check clears.
If he has a problem with that, then send his money back and tell him to piss up a rope.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:39:51 AM EDT
PayPal is faster. Just don't say its for a gun.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:41:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:
Sounds like he was given bad info, took it for gospel, and he's feeling like an ass. I'd say wait it out and ship the rifle, but don't give him a hard time.



What he said.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:41:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
YOU DONT HAVE TO (AND SHOULDN'T) DISCLOSE ANYTHING AS A FIREARM TO THE USPS, UPS, OR FEDEX. MORE CHANCES OF THEFT. EVEN UPS ASKS GUN STORES TO NOT MARK THE BOX AS A FIREARM OR ANYTHING RELATING TO FIREARM.

Jesus, I've been doing this for almost 10 years and I hate to hear misinformation that could cost you a "lost" firearm!

- rem

Federal law requires you inform the carrier when a firearm is in the box, but they do not mark the box to indicate that.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:58:24 AM EDT
In cash, I trust or a Postal Money order.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:15:40 AM EDT
I only do deals online with USPS MO's because if the guy fucks up the USPS will agressively investigate and prosecute above and beyond the recourse normally afforded upstanding citizens who get robbed by Goblins and Trailer Trash.

USPS also allows you to purchase a copy of the signature used to cash the MO, so there are protections for both Buyers and Sellers.

Dave
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:30:04 AM EDT
I only accept personal checks from people I'm tight with. I've never had a problem, but I'm very cautious with who I deal with. Out of state checks take a long time to clear, so it's an inconvienience.

Taking checks from people you don't know, who then turn out to be flakes, is good reason to be concerned. I would hate to be in your shoes right now.

Said guy could have gone to his bank and asked for a money order. My bank does not charge for this service. Now you've got to wonder...

Will this check bounce, or otherwise become a problem?
Will this individual flake upon recieving the rifle?

Keep every detail of this transaction, from start to finish, in case you find yourself speaking to the Postmaster General about mail fraud / theft. Good luck... and next time, please, don't compromise yourself. If someone can't take the time to send you a money order as you request, PASS!
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:43:57 AM EDT
I am happy to take a personal check when I sell things on eBay.

Why should I care where the money comes from?

There is a little trick you can do to speed things along.

Your bank will probably tell you a check will clear in 3 or 4 days. This is wrong.
(My bank told me this)

It takes 3 or 4 business days for the check to reach the issuers bank.

CALL the issuer's bank with the account number and check number.
They will tell you if there are sufficient funds, and if the check has cleared.

Once the issuer's bank says the check has cleared, you are fine.

Your bank won't know until they receive something in the mail from the issuers bank,
which can take up to two weeks.

If you didn't make a copy of the check, or at least write down the account number and check number,
your bank likely has the information.

I forgot to record the information, and my bank was able to go to my account, and look up
the information from the transaction. Then I called the issuers bank. Everything was fine.

I remembered the name of the bank, so I didn't need that information.
I think your bank can give you that to, but I'm not 100% sure.

Good luck.


Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:45:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I only do deals online with USPS MO's because if the guy fucks up the USPS will agressively investigate and prosecute above and beyond the recourse normally afforded upstanding citizens who get robbed by Goblins and Trailer Trash.

USPS also allows you to purchase a copy of the signature used to cash the MO, so there are protections for both Buyers and Sellers.

Dave



I was buying a couple of pre-ban lowers roughly 6 months ago using usps mo's. I asked the clerk about protections with MO's and he said there is no such fraud prosecution etc... He said it's basically cash and that's it... Can anyone enlighten me?
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