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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/16/2002 4:13:04 PM EDT
Apparently, the ATF has created a secret group of teams who go around to rifle ranges, etc, looking for people who are inserting pre-ban mags into post-ban weapons, in order to bust 'em, and confiscate weapons & mags. Uh huh.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:17:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:18:41 PM EDT
That's just [whacko]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:19:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:20:18 PM EDT
And this would be because of what???? Where I live it is perfactly legal to put a preban magazine in a post ban weapon. What country do you live in?
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:22:52 PM EDT
I guess I must've missed the section of the USC where it states that using pre-ban mags in a post-ban rifle is illegal. Stupid me. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:27:01 PM EDT
Silly me, I will have to throw them all out! [sleep]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:29:12 PM EDT
At the time, I was looking at Shorty AK, and I told the guy behind the counter "You know this guy's full of sh*t, right?" I gather that this guy comes in from time to time to educate those of us who know nothing about guns.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:37:18 PM EDT
Zardoz, I think I know the shop you're talking about. The owner showed me a brochure from the NRA stating that putting a pre-ban magazine into a post-ban weapon was a felony. Thank you the NRA for spreading false information.z
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:45:21 PM EDT
This was at Fast Cash Pawnshop on 221, about a mile or so down from I-85. I would think the owner would throw away trash like those brochures. I would also think that the NRA would at least make an attempt to know what they're talking about before they publish BS like that.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:54:52 PM EDT
The ONLY time inserting a preban mag into a post ban gun may be illegal is when you insert a preban foreign made mag into a post ban gun made with foreign parts, where the mag counts as one of the seven US parts. If you replace the mag follower and floorplate with a US made one, then you are okay, and do not have an illegal weapon. This situation arises with some of the post ban AK variants you see floating around. This is what our so called "expert" may be refering to. Once, I went to a south Florida pawn shop looking for guns and cheap mags, I believe it was affiliated with Gator Guns and Archery. Anyhow, I was looking to buy an AK mag for my MAK 90. I ask the guy behind the counter if he has any in stock. He goes to the back room and pulls out a 30rd chinese mag. I look at the price sticker, and ask him if he is joking. 60 BUCKS! I politely told him I didnt want it. What gets me is, some idiot probably paid 60 bucks for that mag! I ordered some out of the Shotgun News the same day for 8 bucks each!
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 4:56:09 PM EDT
[puke] And Elvis is still alive..... right....
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:08:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:13:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:26:43 PM EDT
OK so there I am at the range with my Rifle and several loaded magazines around me and my pistol on my hip. Now an ATF agent comes up, starts a conversation and wants to arrest me for preban mags in a postban. If there are any ATF agents with balls that big and brains that small some good old darwinian natural selection really needs to take place.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:30:13 PM EDT
well if u get caught with ,shit the govt.says u aint supposed to have ,use the same defense they use when they get caught with shit they aint supposed to have,tell them u believe in the second ,and its supported ,by the fifth. everyone hates the 1st. and 2nd. but they all love the 5th.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:37:50 PM EDT
yeah its better to have 4 $800.00 guns with 10 rd. mags than a $200.00 dollar gun with 2 20 round mags. u know like hit me with a hammer and that will make me smarter.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 5:46:32 PM EDT
Oh-Oh [peep]
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 6:06:46 PM EDT
Yeah sure... then how do manufacturers get away with giving a preban magazine with their postban guns? example: Para Ordincance, Smith & Wesson on their Sigmas, etc. This is a BS story.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 6:41:07 PM EDT
Zardoz, I thought you meant the guy working in the shop was saying that. It wasn't clear from your first post that it was a customer. I have heard that same comment from the owner of a local shop. Fast Cash: Nice selection of rifles. I stop by there every couple of months. I like being able to look at the rifles closely, which you just can't do when they're behind a counter or behind glass. I bought a Kel-Tec P-32 from them just over a year ago, and they wouldn't mail it back to Kel-Tec for me. They could send it USPS, but instead, I had to pay about $35 to send it overnight UPS. I paid $30 extra to buy it from there rather than from Dunbar's, so I'm not happy about that. I even offered the guy $15 extra for mailing it, so I wouldn't have to deal with finding a UPS customer with daily pickup to send it, and he still said no. Before that, I had taken five customers to their shop that bought from them. Since then, I take my friends and family to gun shows since there isn't a good local shop to recommend.
should contact the NRA [about the brochure]
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It was from the summer of 1994. I think they were trying to scare people into donating money. I also know a couple of local guys with Glocks that won't use pre-ban mags in their post-ban pistols, because "that's what the NRA told them."z
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 10:59:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer: Yeah sure... then how do manufacturers get away with giving a preban magazine with their postban guns? example: Para Ordincance, Smith & Wesson on their Sigmas, etc.
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Not entirely BS. For example, it's illegal to put one of those Pierce finger rest additions on a 10 or 9rd mag, i.e. Glock 26/27 if it includes the +2 rd mag increases. IOW, a post ban mag CANNOT be altered to be more than 10rds. PO can sell hi-caps because they made a shitload of frames before the ban became effective, i.e. they were grandfathered because of the cutoff date. IIRC, the law says a NIB firearm cannot be sold with a hi-cap, it does not say one cannot be used with same firearm. I recall the antis howling long & hard at this "loophole". I am NOT a lawyer, your mileage may vary.
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 11:36:25 PM EDT
IIRC, the law says a NIB firearm cannot be sold with a hi-cap
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I don't think so. I've seen FAL's, an AR, and a couple of AK's new in the box that came with a >10 round capacity magazine. You can go to [url]www.aimsurplus.com[/url] to see a Romanian SAR-1 and a SAR-3 advertised as coming with one.z
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 4:32:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole:
Originally Posted By Energizer: Yeah sure... then how do manufacturers get away with giving a preban magazine with their postban guns? example: Para Ordincance, Smith & Wesson on their Sigmas, etc.
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Not entirely BS. For example, it's illegal to put one of those Pierce finger rest additions on a 10 or 9rd mag, i.e. Glock 26/27 if it includes the +2 rd mag increases. IOW, a post ban mag CANNOT be altered to be more than 10rds. PO can sell hi-caps because they made a shitload of frames before the ban became effective, i.e. they were grandfathered because of the cutoff date. IIRC, the law says a NIB firearm cannot be sold with a hi-cap, it does not say one cannot be used with same firearm. I recall the antis howling long & hard at this "loophole". I am NOT a lawyer, your mileage may vary.
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Yes it is entirely BS-- we are talking about PRE-BAN magazines being used in post-ban weapons-- not altering a 9 or 10 round post-ban magazine to add 2 more rounds. Good thing you aren't a lawyer. What law are you referring to when you say, "the law says a NIB firearm cannot be sold with a hi-cap"??? Please site your source. --I have seen many NIB firearms come with 1 10 round magazine, and 1 pre-ban high capacity magazine... In fact, many AR15-style firearms were sold with high capacity magazines.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 4:39:58 AM EDT
I AM that secret ATF agent, and if you install a +2 on that post ban Glock magazine or slap a Hungarian 30 round AKM mag in a Romak thumbhole sporter... I WILL get you! You've been warned.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 9:20:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2002 9:21:12 AM EDT by SNorman]
Hey guys, the law only pertains to imported postban weapons that do not contain the "correct" number of US made parts, *I think* you legally cannot insert a pre-ban high capacity magazine into them (unless they have a butthole stock?)
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 10:35:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman: Hey guys, the law only pertains to imported postban weapons that do not contain the "correct" number of US made parts, *I think* you legally cannot insert a pre-ban high capacity magazine into them (unless they have a butthole stock?)
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This makes sense, and I agree that you may be correct, but the topic did not specify imported weapons.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 10:58:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer: This makes sense, and I agree that you may be correct, but the topic did not specify imported weapons.
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That's right, well I guess the "special" (ed) ATF teams have their work cut out for them then!
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 11:40:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kaliburz: [puke] And Elvis is still alive..... right....
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DAMN! I'VE BEEN FOUND OUT!
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 12:07:40 PM EDT
I have recieved a lot of bad information here in South Carolina 1) Can't use pre ban mags in post ban guns. 2) FFLs have to track the sale of high-cap mags 3) If I buy high-cap mags off the internet the ATF will come to my house late at night Try Carolina Gun and Reel on Hwy 17. Their prices are a bit high but they seem to know what they are doing.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 12:17:43 PM EDT
If that were true then the magazines would simply be parts for a pre-ban gun and would still be produced.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 12:49:34 PM EDT
Try Carolina Gun and Reel
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Where is that? Do you have any contact info. I've got 17 phone books from around the state here at work, and I didn't see it listed in any of them. BellSouth information also didn't have a business listed with that name in SC. Also, the Secretary of State's office (www.scos.com) didn't either.z
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 12:53:07 PM EDT
No such "tactical insertion team" exists. He is lying, "Operation Mag Scam" is just a Urban Legend. Pay no attention to the short haired man at the end of the line with his spotting scope trained on your shooting bench. We don't exist, you never heard of us, go back to sleep, it was a dream.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 12:56:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 1:01:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pv74: The ONLY time inserting a preban mag into a post ban gun may be illegal is when you insert a preban foreign made mag into a post ban gun made with foreign parts, where the mag counts as one of the seven US parts. If you replace the mag follower and floorplate with a US made one, then you are okay, and do not have an illegal weapon. This situation arises with some of the post ban AK variants you see floating around. This is what our so called "expert" may be refering to. Once, I went to a south Florida pawn shop looking for guns and cheap mags, I believe it was affiliated with Gator Guns and Archery. Anyhow, I was looking to buy an AK mag for my MAK 90. I ask the guy behind the counter if he has any in stock. He goes to the back room and pulls out a 30rd chinese mag. I look at the price sticker, and ask him if he is joking. 60 BUCKS! I politely told him I didnt want it. What gets me is, some idiot probably paid 60 bucks for that mag! I ordered some out of the Shotgun News the same day for 8 bucks each!
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Jesus H Christ, have the batfr's made the rules for owning a firearm more confusing than the freakin' tax code or what. this BS has got to stop.
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 1:32:56 PM EDT
Isn't it strange how the ATF can claim their "position" on various interpretations of law, even though there is no specific law? Then its up to you to fight it in court?
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 2:50:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom:
Try Carolina Gun and Reel
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Where is that? Do you have any contact info. I've got 17 phone books from around the state here at work, and I didn't see it listed in any of them. BellSouth information also didn't have a business listed with that name in SC. Also, the Secretary of State's office (www.scos.com) didn't either.z
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Sorry, the name is Carolina Rod and Gun Inc. They are at 1319 Savannah Hwy in Charleston, SC. Their phone number is (843)-571-7972 or (843)-571-7991
Link Posted: 5/17/2002 11:22:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zoom: Zardoz, I thought you meant the guy working in the shop was saying that. It wasn't clear from your first post that it was a customer. I have heard that same comment from the owner of a local shop. Fast Cash: Nice selection of rifles. I stop by there every couple of months. I like being able to look at the rifles closely, which you just can't do when they're behind a counter or behind glass. I bought a Kel-Tec P-32 from them just over a year ago, and they wouldn't mail it back to Kel-Tec for me. They could send it USPS, but instead, I had to pay about $35 to send it overnight UPS. I paid $30 extra to buy it from there rather than from Dunbar's, so I'm not happy about that. I even offered the guy $15 extra for mailing it, so I wouldn't have to deal with finding a UPS customer with daily pickup to send it, and he still said no. Before that, I had taken five customers to their shop that bought from them. Since then, I take my friends and family to gun shows since there isn't a good local shop to recommend.
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Sorry; I guess I should have secified that it was a customer, although I have heard a few pearls of wisdom like this from shop owners, myself. I hate to hear this about F/Cash; I thought they were a little more Customer oriented than this. I suppose I'll have to find somewhere new to do my buying. Thanks for the heads-up, zoom.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 5:37:34 AM EDT
The preban mag in postban gun part is BS, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if shooting ranges are being watched. Local cops, county sheriffs, state police, and the feds all know how easy it is to arrest someone with a 100% legal firearm and send him to prison for a long time on fabricated charges.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:59:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pv74: The ONLY time inserting a preban mag into a post ban gun may be illegal is when you insert a preban foreign made mag into a post ban gun made with foreign parts, where the mag counts as one of the seven US parts. If you replace the mag follower and floorplate with a US made one, then you are okay, and do not have an illegal weapon. This situation arises with some of the post ban AK variants you see floating around. This is what our so called "expert" may be refering to.
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This is somewhat misleading. The law (18 USC §178.39) specifies a list of parts, of which a maximum of 10 can be of foreign manufacture. These parts include the following: (1) Receiver (2) Barrel (3) Muzzle attachment (4) Bolt (5) Bolt carrier (6) Gas piston (7) Trigger housings (lower receiver) (8) Operating rod (charging handle) (9) Trigger (10) Hammer (11) Sear (12) Buttstock (13) Pistol grip (14) Handguards (15) Magazine body (16) Magazine Follower (17) Magazine Floorplate A FAL, for example, has these 17 parts. Since a maximum of 10 foreign parts are allowed, 7 of the original parts must be replaced to make the gun legal. A different gun might have a different number of parts from the list, and the number of required U.S. made parts would be different.
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