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Posted: 9/1/2005 7:35:51 PM EDT
I have been reading some disturbing posts here and on another board saying that our National Guard troops are being sent to deliver supplies unarmed. Say it aint so!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:37:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 7:37:17 PM EDT by cyclone]
I have read the exact opposite............I have heard that they are armed, and also that there is a USMC MEU in route to assist with restoring order
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:37:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I have been reading some disturbing posts here and on another board saying that our National Guard troops are being sent to deliver supplies unarmed. Say it aint so!



My son is at Camp Beauregard as a dispatcher and saw 4 bus loads pull out this afternoon for NOLA and they definitely had boom sticks with them.

wganz

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:39:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyclone:
I have read the exact opposite............I have heard that they are armed, and also that there is a USMC MEU in route to assist with restoring order



Marines too?

Damn.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:39:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:40:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By cyclone:
I have read the exact opposite............I have heard that they are armed, and also that there is a USMC MEU in route to assist with restoring order



Marines too?

Damn.



apperently the MEU just did some training in new orleins
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:40:37 PM EDT
After 9/11 there were NG at the airports with M-16's but no mag inserted.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:41:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wganz:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I have been reading some disturbing posts here and on another board saying that our National Guard troops are being sent to deliver supplies unarmed. Say it aint so!



My son is at Camp Beauregard as a dispatcher and saw 4 bus loads pull out this afternoon for NOLA and they definitely had boom sticks with them.

wganz




Your son isn't in the National Guard? I read your posted topic about Beauregard and thought he was in the NG and not allowed to carry. Oops. There is a post on another site that said what i posted about though.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:42:37 PM EDT
My little brother has been down there inside the Superdome since day one with his unit...unarmed. He tries to call everynight, and everynight it keeps getting worse. He's gotten scared.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:42:44 PM EDT
They are not allowed to shoot looters so why do they need guns?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:43:28 PM EDT
Even if those M-16s have no mags inserted, who wants to bet that there're mags tucked away on some cargo pockets.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:46:13 PM EDT
my dad was in the guard during the riots and protests in the 60's. He said it was SOP to NOT give them ammo.


GR
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:47:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:
Even if those M-16s have no mags inserted, who wants to bet that there're mags tucked away on some cargo pockets.

Then what is the point. By the time you reach for a mag you would already be dead.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:50:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:
Even if those M-16s have no mags inserted, who wants to bet that there're mags tucked away on some cargo pockets.

Then what is the point. By the time you reach for a mag you would already be dead.



I didn't say it was perfect, but you never know.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:52:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wganz:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I have been reading some disturbing posts here and on another board saying that our National Guard troops are being sent to deliver supplies unarmed. Say it aint so!



My son is at Camp Beauregard as a dispatcher and saw 4 bus loads pull out this afternoon for NOLA and they definitely had boom sticks with them.

wganz



I would be VERY surprised if they had any ammo, anyone got any hard info?
(of course, with armed looters they SHOULD have ammo)
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:53:23 PM EDT
Aarron Brown on CNN said some NG troops had just arrived with order to shoot to kill. Of course he is an idiot so I have no idea if its true.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:02:32 PM EDT
What does "MEU" stand for?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:05:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjrowley:
What does "MEU" stand for?



Marine Expoditionary Unit. They are going to storm the beach.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:07:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wganz:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I have been reading some disturbing posts here and on another board saying that our National Guard troops are being sent to deliver supplies unarmed. Say it aint so!



My son is at Camp Beauregard as a dispatcher and saw 4 bus loads pull out this afternoon for NOLA and they definitely had boom sticks with them.

wganz




Boomsticks are useless without ammo.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:18:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By mjrowley:
What does "MEU" stand for?



Marine Expoditionary Unit. They are going to storm the beach.



Interesting. This whole deal will be great training for the military.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:19:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjrowley:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By mjrowley:
What does "MEU" stand for?



Marine Expoditionary Unit. They are going to storm the beach.



Interesting. This whole deal will be great training for the military.



Or a cluster fuck if the NG can't return fire at a clear and present danger.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:22:33 PM EDT
I fear for NG soldiers being overpowered as they were today.

Next thing you know, the looters will be toting M-16 A2s.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:24:39 PM EDT
The scanners said to send armed NG's
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:27:51 PM EDT
Yes the higher ups will, in fact, send troops out with rifles, but no ammo. Been there, done that.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:32:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 8:41:19 PM EDT by NimmerMehr]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Yes the higher ups will, in fact, send troops out with rifles, but no ammo. Been there, done that.



Like Lt. Gorman
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:34:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Yes the higher ups will, in fact, send troops out with rifles, but no ammo. Been there, done that.



That shit just is not right.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:10:35 PM EDT
I have not seen the details for the ROE yet but let me tell you, up and down the chain of command in at least my neck of the NG there will not be unarmed soldiers. At least the NCO's will be issued ammo to protect the enlisted.

I will say that it's not impossible that some commander not allow ammo being issued to his troops but frankly some troops shouldn't be issued ammo as they could ate the f'd up.

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:20:24 PM EDT
Back when I did guard duty, we were issued 5 rounds each. Enough to show we were armed and ready.

But that was many years ago.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:24:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Back when I did guard duty, we were issued 5 rounds each. Enough to show we were armed and ready.

But that was many years ago.



What? Deer season?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 9:29:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 9:30:11 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Back when I did guard duty, we were issued 5 rounds each. Enough to show we were armed and ready.

But that was many years ago.



What? Deer season?



Don't laugh. In 1982, we were issued 3 rounds with a piece of masking tape over them in the mag.
Most f'd up thing IMO. I was hoping that mentality had changed.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:51:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wganz:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I have been reading some disturbing posts here and on another board saying that our National Guard troops are being sent to deliver supplies unarmed. Say it aint so!



My son is at Camp Beauregard as a dispatcher and saw 4 bus loads pull out this afternoon for NOLA and they definitely had boom sticks with them.

wganz



When the NG was working the '92 Los Angeles Riots, the 1st day they arrive they had zero ammo.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:55:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
I have been reading some disturbing posts here and on another board saying that our National Guard troops are being sent to deliver supplies unarmed. Say it aint so!



Douchebag Lawton Chiles did that shit in Miami after Hurricane Andrew. They had M16s but NO AMMO.

To make matters worse the fucking Miami Herald reported that NG members had EMPTY WEAPONS. This resulted in an outbreak of Miami gangs with LOADED weapons getting several M-16s at gun point.

In my uncles neighborhood we distributed a shitload of 5.56 NATO. We only came across one guardsman who refused the offer saying "Son, I'm from Texas...do you really think my weapon isn't loaded?"

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 12:16:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

This resulted in an outbreak of Miami gangs with LOADED weapons getting several M-16s at gun point.



"Hey guys, using unloaded weapons didn't work out so well in Miami, so we're going to try something different this time."

"Here's your Airsoft. And remember the ROE; you're only allowed to supplement your shots with a hearty 'BANG! BANG!' if the bad guy doesn't go down right away."
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 12:25:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 12:28:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
We only came across one guardsman who refused the offer saying "Son, I'm from Texas...do you really think my weapon isn't loaded?"




Sig line material for one of the Texas crew!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 12:30:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Back when I did guard duty, we were issued 5 rounds each. Enough to show we were armed and ready.

But that was many years ago.



What? Deer season?



US Army. 1987. REAL US Army. ASP guard. 5 rounds, M193, counted and inserted in the magazine. At the end of the shift, the NCOIC took the magazine, counted the rounds and relieved my of that duty.

Don't ask me why, I just obeyed all lawful commands, kept my nose clean and didn't volunteer for jack squat.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 12:51:16 AM EDT
Ammo issued, and ammo on hand are two different things....
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 1:09:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:

When the NG was working the '92 Los Angeles Riots, the 1st day they arrive they had zero ammo.



That is not true...

I had 7 rds of .45

My guys did not see any m193 ammo for 2 days.

Shit better change, Too many Thugs that are back on the block after serving time in the military, and they know better.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:30:28 AM EDT
The Guard has been training in less then lethal for about a year for this type of scenario. We have first responder units right here in NY for WMD, Commo and restoring order. The problem down there is the Governor fucked up and did not mobilize enough troops in advance, and should have already had calls into other states with troops on standby. Hell, we should already have had 30000 down there knowing how devasting the storm was going to be from day one. The way this is handled is going to make or break us for these extreme scenarios.

Unfortunately this is State Active duty orders, not mandatory federal activation. Those of us on Active orders already cannot go. That also includes those units back from deployment that are still
on Refrad for 90 days they cannot go.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:35:31 AM EDT
All over it...


Originally Posted By Stealth:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
We only came across one guardsman who refused the offer saying "Son, I'm from Texas...do you really think my weapon isn't loaded?"




Sig line material for one of the Texas crew!

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:41:21 AM EDT
August 13-16, 1965, the blacks of Los Angeles revolted. An incident between traffic police and pedestrians developed into two days of spontaneous riots. Despite increasing reinforcements, the forces of order were unable to regain control of the streets. By the third day the blacks had armed themselves by looting accessible gun stores, enabling them to fire even on police helicopters. It took thousands of police and soldiers, including an entire infantry division supported by tanks, to confine the riot to the Watts area, and several more days of street fighting to finally bring it under control. Stores were massively plundered and many were burned. Official sources listed 32 dead (including 27 blacks), more than 800 wounded and 3000 arrests.

40 years later and by golly we're gonna do it again
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:43:30 AM EDT
I just saw a good point. It's the Governor of the state that tells the NG what to do. Why didn't the Governors have these requests in in advance? Apparently they didn't think it would be that bad. What I don't understand is that if it's the Governors call to set the NG in motion, how is all this Bush's fault?

hopefully they'll get ammo before they go into NO. I saw one report from the regular Army that they were mobilizing troups. He pointed out that the US had passed a law recently forbiding the US military from doing pretty much anything on US soil unless martial law is declared. The guy said they were going down there to supplement the police force and restore order. I think they found a loophole.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 3:46:20 AM EDT
Folks need to understand something: National guard troops are governed by politicians, who are quite fond of making up elaborate and utterly stupid ROE's and fretting over the idea of people getting shot. Thus they often do dumb-f*ck things like send out troops with no ammo, because their tiny politician brain thinks that perhaps just the sight of a gun will freak the bad guys out.

The problem is that if you DO have a politician who has some sense and will tell the guardsmen to "shoot the bastards" that person will instantly become a tyrant and the media will not stop screaming until he has been removed from office, because he is so "extreme".

Witness the LEO who recently said that the days of shooting looters on sight were over. People applauded him. Gov. Barbour said looters would be dealt with harshly, and people attacked him. Why? Because liberals are f*cking idiots who can't realize that live in a fairy tale and who stubbornly refuse to engage their rational thinking for even a second, lest their entire fantasy end.

Now even the most squeamish people are calling for blood. And it is truly amazing. The very same media that is complaining because there isn't enough heavy handed order would be the EXACT same people complaining that there is too much heavy handedness if troops and efforts at order had been exercised earlier.

And now that troops are on the way, I guarantee you there will be stories decrying the heavy handed approach that will have to be taken against the thugs who are shooting and looting down there.

Liberals are f*cking idiots. The media is mostly comprised of liberals, meaning the media is mostly f*cking idiots. Anyone who listens to their criticisms and commentary seriously is also a f*cking idiot. People, ESPECIALLY people on THIS SITE ought to have enough sense to know that whatever anyone does will be wrong in the media's eyes because that's how they make their living.

Listen to the facts reported, ignore the fuggin commentary and "analysis". Remember that you can't spell analysis without ANAL, which is where most of those TV "analysts" have their heads firmly planted.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:01:18 AM EDT
I suspect soldiers can expect to get a combat ribbon for a tour of duty in New Orleans.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:08:32 AM EDT
NG was manning checkpoints UNARMED here in Miami during Andrew the bad guys knew it the the STK order was bullshit, it wasen't till the 82nd Airborne arrived that looting stopped. I cannot confirm but the NG was also unarmed in NYC during the aftermath of 9/11 maybe some NY'ers can confirm...
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:02:00 AM EDT
Betcha they've got real tight rules of engagement. Probably ask permission to load and shoot only when being fired upon. They should be shooting looters on sight.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:03:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
In my uncles neighborhood we distributed a shitload of 5.56 NATO. We only came across one guardsman who refused the offer saying "Son, I'm from Texas...do you really think my weapon isn't loaded?"

I remember whan you posted this the first time!

If only more people in NO would do what you and your neghbourd do, this wouldn't be happening...
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:21:23 AM EDT
Ever since Kent State, there have been huge restrictions on giving NG troops ammo.

It is time to rethink the empty rifle plan for restoring order.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:23:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Yes the higher ups will, in fact, send troops out with rifles, but no ammo. Been there, done that.


Well thats just fucking stupid. I hope you brought some of your own.
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