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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/6/2002 10:31:16 AM EDT
SAN FRANCISCO (KRON) -- There is disturbing news from San Francisco International Airport. KRON 4 has learned that a national guardsman was wounded when his gun accidentally discharged at the airport. It is the first such incident of its kind since the national guard began patroling airports in October. The incident happened last Friday night shortly after 11, at SFO. Fortunately, the wound was not life threatening and no one else was hit. Specialist Louis Alvarez and other members of the national guard were going off duty that Friday night. They gathered at the airport's courtyard number one outside the international terminal for a bus ride to their hotel. Alvarez, according to his superiors, was about to unload his 9-milimeter sidearm. Its a safety procedure that soldiers go through before leaving the airport. To make sure there's no live round in the chamber of a pistol, soldiers fire into a red barrel filled with sand - called a clearing barrel. Lt. Robert Paoletti explains the safety procedure: "They fire into the clearing barrel to drive home on an empty chamber to make sure the weapon is clear. We also have the non-commissioned officers inspect the chambers of the weapons to make sure they're clear to insure safety." But Alvarez apparently had difficulty removing his sidearm from the holster. There was also a live round in the chamber. Somehow, as he was struggling, the gun went off and the round hit him in the buttocks. Alvarez's superiors say the shooting was unfortunate. "He's a good soldier that had an accident. He is trained on the weapon. He is qualified in the weapon so it's an unfortunate thing," Lt. Paoletti says. The national guard has now launched a formal investigation to find out exactely why the accidental shooting happened. Soldiers are permitted to carry live ammunition, but normal operational protocol does not allow live rounds in the chambers unless the alert is upgraded. Did Alverez violate regulations by carrying his sidearm with a live round in the chamber? "I'm not at liberty to discuss what the actual reason for the accidental discharge was. Like I said, it's under a formal investigation. Hopefully we'll be able to come to some resolution," says Lt. Paoletti. Police were called immediately to the scene, but there was apparently some tense moments and confusion while police tried to piece together what happened. Airport sources tell KRON 4 that some officers thought, initially, that the soldier had been shot by a terrorist. Alvarez was taken to San Francisco General. He's now back at home recuperating from his wound. (Copyright 2001 KRON 4. All Rights Reserved.)
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:35:27 AM EDT
What type weapon was it?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:38:49 AM EDT
based on it being a 9mm in the report, probably a Beretta M-9 [beer]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:42:40 AM EDT
"a national guardsman was wounded when his gun accidentally discharged" Sorry guys, personal rant here. The news, yet again states that a weapon misfired and accidentally discharged. Writing as if the weapon is inherently evil and responsible for the "accident" is part of the media's efforts to vilify weapons, in general. BS!! The weapon appears to have functioned as designed; i.e., it fired when a round was chambered and the trigger was pulled. The pistol did not appear to have malfuctioned and fired without any operator input. The individual is responsible for the negligent discharge, not the weapon. SPC Alvarez shot himself in the ass, would be a more correct, if less PC description of what happened, but then the individual would be responsible for his own actions, a violation of liberal doctrine. He appears to have been carrying with a chambered round, in violation of his orders, as well.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:42:42 AM EDT
If it was a Beretta, I'll be interested to know how you get an AD, pulling your gun out of the holster, with the SAFETY ON?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:48:12 AM EDT
I don't believe in AD's. It was an ND,"Negligent Discharge". Ouch, that’s guna leave a mark... Cg..
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:50:12 AM EDT
Even more so with the M-12 holster. When I was in one place in Germany as an MP there we had uncle mikes belts and police gear with black M-12 style holsters for the M-9s. One of the guys on my shift got the order of chambering backward and holstered without looking (flipped the safety off first, then racked the slide) he went the entire shift hammer back with no discharge. The holster may be slow, but is protects the gun.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 10:52:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2002 7:59:42 PM EDT by SF]
ECS: Don't you see? Alvarez "had difficulty removing his sidearm from the holster. There was also a live round in the chamber. Somehow, as he was struggling, the gun went off and the round hit him in the buttocks." This makes it sound like the holster and the gun were conspiring to injure SPC Alvarez. Then "there was a round in the chamber". Wonder who/how that happened? Finally, he was "struggling" with the evil handgun when it "went off." This is the translation from liberalspeak, as well as how the AR15-6 investigation should read. "SPC Alvarez had chambered a round in his sidearm, in violation of his orders and ROE, failed to keep his finger off the trigger while the safety was disengaged and negligently discharged his weapon, also in violation of his orders. The resultant wound to SPC Alvarez was NOT in the line of duty, as it resulted from his own willful violation of orders, negligence, and failure to follow safe firearms handling procedures as instructed in Basic Training."
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:02:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SF: ECS: Don't you see? Alvarez "had difficulty removing his sidearm from the holster. There was also a live round in the chamber. Somehow, as he was struggling, the gun went off and the round hit him in the buttocks." This makes it sound like the holster and the gun were conspiring to injure SPC Alvarez. Then "there was a round in the chamber". Wonder who/how that happened? Finally, he was "struggling" with the evil handgun when it "went off." How is this translation from liberalspeak, as well as how the AR15-6 investigation should read. "SPC Alvarez had chambered a round in his sidearm, in violation of his orders and ROE, failed to keep his finger off the trigger while the safety was disengaged and negligently discharged his weapon, also in violation of his orders. The resultant wound to SPC Alvarez was NOT in the line of duty, as it resulted from his own willful violation of orders, negligence, and failure to follow safe firearms handling procedures as instructed in Basic Training."
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Oh I get it....somehow a Beretta M9, which has a mind of its own, decided to get in a wrestling match with its owner. The owner, a poor hapless creature, struggled valiantly to control the evil weapon. During the struggle the weapon turned off its own safety, self-chambered a 9mm cartridge, aimed itself at dumb-asses ass, and discharged.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 11:05:42 AM EDT
Exactly. Believe it or not, that is the message they want the public to get. Guns are unsafe. Get it? Just like the headline "Gun Accidentally Kills Child". Film at eleven with hapless individual holding the weapon when it went on its horrible, self-initiated killing spree.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:01:26 PM EDT
The gun did not misfire!!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:08:27 PM EDT
Seems every time I shoot myself it's a misfire. [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:12:30 PM EDT
RE: Post above... ...you must have alot of bullet holes in you!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:28:46 PM EDT
SF, you nailed it with your post. The liberal medai [b]always[/b] makes "accidents" the fault of the vile evil gun. This would be a great time to get the email address of the writer and send him/her a few hundred opinions from our fellow AR15er's. CMOS
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 2:57:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By punkatomic: RE: Post above... ...you must have alot of bullet holes in you!
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I have exactly the number of holes that you would expect from misfiring guns. [smoke]
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 3:15:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SF: ECS: he was "struggling" with the evil handgun when it "went off."
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fortunately, when the leo's arrived looking for the terrorist that shot SPC Alvarez, the evil handgun and holster had been subdued and the clearing barrel surrounded by other national guard personnel.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 3:53:43 PM EDT
"Accident" my ass...
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:00:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ECS:
Originally Posted By SF: ECS: Don't you see? Alvarez "had difficulty removing his sidearm from the holster. There was also a live round in the chamber. Somehow, as he was struggling, the gun went off and the round hit him in the buttocks." This makes it sound like the holster and the gun were conspiring to injure SPC Alvarez. Then "there was a round in the chamber". Wonder who/how that happened? Finally, he was "struggling" with the evil handgun when it "went off." How is this translation from liberalspeak, as well as how the AR15-6 investigation should read. "SPC Alvarez had chambered a round in his sidearm, in violation of his orders and ROE, failed to keep his finger off the trigger while the safety was disengaged and negligently discharged his weapon, also in violation of his orders. The resultant wound to SPC Alvarez was NOT in the line of duty, as it resulted from his own willful violation of orders, negligence, and failure to follow safe firearms handling procedures as instructed in Basic Training."
View Quote
Oh I get it....somehow a Beretta M9, which has a mind of its own, decided to get in a wrestling match with its owner. The owner, a poor hapless creature, struggled valiantly to control the evil weapon. During the struggle the weapon turned off its own safety, self-chambered a 9mm cartridge, aimed itself at dumb-asses ass, and discharged.
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I had this happen to me when i put my evil ar15 down on the table the dang thing all of a sudden jumped up and started chasing me! OH! i lived thank goodness.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:11:31 PM EDT
Thats why they are not allowed to have bullets in there gun most of the time. R35
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:25:09 PM EDT
5subslr5, Thanks for clearing that up for me, I see that we're on the same page with regards to misfires. I didn't know what the hell you meant, but I'm glad you're not shooting yourself.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:28:26 PM EDT
Guys, Have you considered that this is the California national guard we're talking about? It was probably the first time Specialist Louis Alvarez had ever seen or handled a sidearm.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:52:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:57:21 PM EDT
Will he get to show his buttocks off to the president? oh well......
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:25:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: Guys, Have you considered that this is the California national guard we're talking about? It was probably the first time Specialist Louis Alvarez had ever seen or handled a sidearm.
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I believe that even the Kalifornia NG has to complete basic training before reaching the rank of E-4. Said basic training, and possibly AIT has numerous classes on firearms employment and safety, to include range time. SPC means at least two years in the unit, which hopefully included SOME Army training, like range time. I can hear it now, probably went like this: "Okay, folks, here are your orders for weapons handling. Read the ROE card you have been issued and ensure you understand it before leaving here today. Come see me if you have any questions. Follow your General Orders and the orders of your NCOICs and officers. Alvarez, stop playing around and pay attention. You are to place a loaded mag in your weapon. DO NOT chamber a round unless told to do so, or required to do so in preparation to fire. Place your weapon in the issue holster. Do not remove it unless told to do so or neccesary to protect yourself or others IAW the ROE. Do not point the weapon at anything you do not wish to destroy. Treat all weapons as loaded at all times. Keep your finger off the trigger unless shooting. Are there any questions? Alvarez, are you listening to me? If necessary to respond to a deadly threat, remove your weapon from the holster, keeping your finger off the trigger, and pull the slide to the rear to chamber a round. Do not point the weapon at anything you do not wish to destroy. Treat all weapons as loaded at all times. Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard unless shooting. Engage the threat, reloading as required. If you do not have to fire, engage the safety and clear the weapon by removing the magazine, then ejecting the chambered round, replacing it in the magazine. Does everyone understand? SPC Alvarez, pay attention! We will clear all weapons at the end of the shift in the following sequence: report to the clearing point. Remove the weapon from the holster, keeping your finger off the trigger. Treat the weapon as if it were loaded. Do not point the muzzle at anything you do not wish to destroy. Engage the safety. Remove the magazine. Keep your finger off the trigger and the weapon pointed in a safe direction, into the barrel. Pull the slide to the rear, permitting the NCOIC to verify that the chamber is clear. release the slide, point the weapon into the barrel, release the safety, and pull the trigger. Everyone got that? Let's run through it a few times. Alvarez, wake up! Did you get all of that? Sarge, stop picking on me, I ain't stupid...."
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 9:13:04 PM EDT
sf, Very funny and probably accurate reply. Thank you, hav'nt laughed that hard in a while.
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