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Posted: 9/22/2004 7:29:21 AM EST
Local officers praise new law about toy guns
Governor signs bill banning realistic-looking weapons in public
By KELLY NIX
The Salinas Californian

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABOUT THE LAW
A new state law prohibits the use of toy or imitation guns in public unless they are clear plastic or painted a bright color. Fines range from $100 for the first offense to $200 for the second offense and a misdemeanor charge for three or more offenses.

Salinas police say they overwhelmingly support a new state law that prohibits displaying toy guns in public unless the weapons are clearly fake.

"If it discourages people from carrying realistic guns, it can only help in preventing potentially tragic confrontations," said Salinas police Lt. Kelly McMillin.

On Monday, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed Senate Bill 1858 by Sen. Joseph Dunn, D-Santa Ana. The law requires that for toy guns to be shown or played with in public, they must be made of clear plastic or be painted a bright color so that they are not mistaken for a real firearm. The law took effect immediately.

Those who break the law face a $100 fine for the first offense, $200 for second offense and a misdemeanor charge on a third or subsequent offense, according to a statement from state Attorney General Bill Lockyer's office.

Deputy police Chief Rick Moore said Salinas officers have had numerous close calls involving realistic-looking toy weapons.

Earlier this year, an officer investigating a call of a person with a firearm came face-to-face with a boy holding a paintball gun, Moore said.

"The officer, through all of this, realized it was a paintball (gun) and didn't shoot the kid," he said.

Some of the imitation or toy guns Salinas police officers have confiscated look so authentic they're dead ringers for the real thing, McMillin said.

"When a police officer sees somebody with a weapon, you have seconds or fractions of a second to make a life-or-death decision. You certainly don't have time to inquire about the authenticity of the gun."

Along with cap guns or other toys, the law also applies to airguns, including the BB and pellet variety.

The law requires that imitation firearms manufactured after July 1, 2005, have a warning label that states the law.

Theatrical productions and sporting events that use imitation guns are exempt from the law.

The legislation also allows prosecutors to file additional charges if someone uses a realistic-looking fake firearm in a public building, airport or school.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:31:36 AM EST
Wonder what happens when they see something like this?

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:32:13 AM EST
You just don't know how many 5 year olds I have almost emtied my magazine into because of airsoft guns.

Kids should be banned.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:34:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Kids should be banned.


Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:36:44 AM EST
So the RINO is 2/3 on gun/ammo bills taht have come before him...
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:37:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By DavidC:
Wonder what happens when they see something like this?

www.supercharger.net/private/cavblue.jpg



Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:39:13 AM EST
He's on a hot streak!

And to think that some people want to amend the constitution so that this RINO can run in 2008!
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:40:46 AM EST
effing safety police at work for the nanny state.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:45:27 AM EST
So is Hollywood exempt?

I just can't picture Arnold shooting predators with a clearly marked airsoft.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:45:45 AM EST
He's a girlyman.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:47:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 7:48:17 AM EST by jmcdonaldva1]
No wonder he gets along with the Kennedy family, he's no different than they are.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:52:38 AM EST
So now all of the gang members with guns can just paint them wild colors and the cops will think they are toys right?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:55:55 AM EST
"The law requires that imitation firearms manufactured after July 1, 2005, have a warning label that states the law. "

Aw man....the price of pre bans is gonna sky rocket.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 7:58:08 AM EST
What a liberal gun grabbing dick. He fits right in huh?

HS1
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:01:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:
So the RINO is 2/3 on gun/ammo bills taht have come before him...



Did you expect anything else from the Kalinfornifreak.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:06:28 AM EST
He also has a bill coming across his desk banning kids doing this:



Yelling "Bang!" would be an additional felony.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:11:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
He also has a bill coming across his desk banning kids doing this:

www.wcpclan.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shoot.jpg

Yelling "Bang!" would be an additional felony.




In some schools they can expel (sp) you for it...
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:13:28 AM EST
The problem is trigger happy Caliban cops. Has it become defacto standard to shot anyone who appears to be holding a gun of some form, without asking questions? Or to take a stance that anyone besides themselves is a bad guy. There was a time when cops checked out a kid's toy gun, and weren't afraid of asking questions.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:16:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Kids should be banned.




For the children, of course!
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:17:05 AM EST
I won't allow him on my TV, fuck him and his ugly ass wife.

Nazi fucking bastard.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:25:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 8:26:49 AM EST by Maddogkiller]
My first reaction to reading or hearing news of this sort coming from California makes my bust out laughing. I laugh at the stupidity of the people that inhabit that state. However, I stop laughing when I once again remember that these stupid people are my fellow countrymen, my fellow Americans, and it breaks my heart to know what gutless cowards so many of us are becoming.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:31:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Maddogkiller:
My first reaction to reading or hearing news of this sort coming from California makes my bust out laughing. I laugh at the stupidity of the people that inhabit that state. However, I stop laughing when I once again remember that these stupid people are my fellow countrymen, my fellow Americans, and it breaks my heart to know what gutless cowards so many of us are becoming.



+1
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:38:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:40:42 AM EST
Will there be a surge in paint sales at wal-mart as all of the local gang bangers paint there guns yellow in order to make the cops hesitate?

ktm500
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:44:31 AM EST
Hes gonna terminate every single freedom left in CA...
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:49:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
Hes gonna terminate every single freedom left in CA...



...All 6 of them?

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:50:01 AM EST
Geez. It was so much better to be a kid in the 70s/80s. I had toy cap guns that looked like 1911s. And a wicked cool bolt action that actually opened and closed. Even the GI Joes I played with had realistic looking weapons.

Mind you, I realize why that is. There used to be a Laser Tag kind of game with "guns" that emitted a very loud sound back in the late 80s. In fact I believe a kid in MI was killed by a cop because he stupidly pointed it at the officer... But I'd blame the kid's parents for not telling the freakin kid to not point a realistic looking gun at a cop before I signed a law making them illegal.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:50:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:
So the RINO is 2/3 on gun/ammo bills taht have come before him...



Are you saying he vetoed a bill, or he hasn't signed yet? I heard about an ammo bill, but I don't know its disposition . . . (I'm well aware of the 50 BMG bill).
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:51:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
And to think that some people want to amend the constitution so that this RINO can run in 2008!



Not this RIAT*!



( * Republican In All Things)
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:51:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 9:07:52 AM EST by nightstalker]
Moral

When you walk outside with your airsoft G23 to scare the crows shitting on your freshly washed car.....

WEAR YOUR TRAUMA PLATE


edit: Arnold signed the ban on .50BMG weapons.

He vetoed the fingerprint for ammo bill and the more onerous "safe storage of weapons" bill that would have made gun owners lock their guns up in the closet with their free political speech and their free religious speech, only to be taken out for nostalgia purposes.

Coming to your neighborhood soon.


Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:51:29 AM EST
i actually have a serious question about this in regards to airsoft.

how does the law define public? airsoft is generally played in a somewhat public area a bit off the beaten path but still in plain view even if it is on private property. how will this be affected?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 8:59:05 AM EST
According to the Cal Penal Code, "public place" is defined as:

Any place which is open to common or general use, participation and enjoyment by members of the public.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:02:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 9:03:40 AM EST by kill-9]

Originally Posted By 2gun:
i actually have a serious question about this in regards to airsoft.

how does the law define public? airsoft is generally played in a somewhat public area a bit off the beaten path but still in plain view even if it is on private property. how will this be affected?



Ah, that brings up a key aspect of many modern laws. They are left purposefully ambiguous to allow the prosecutors flexibility. Whether something is illegal is often not objectively defined but, rather, based on the subjective desires (whims) of government attorneys.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:06:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 9:09:31 AM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
effing safety police at work for the nanny state.



I get several road rage related calls involving airsoft guns every week. For some reason, highschool kids like to paint the orange tip then carry the Airsoft in their car to brandish at anyone who pissess them off in traffic. We have had major traffic collisions becuase some kid pointed an airsoft at another driver, who swerved in response and caused a collision.

We have also had several robberies with airsoft, and many suicides-by-cop involving Airsoft.

Airsoft might not be a problem in your state. It's a huge problem in So Cal.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:11:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 9:48:12 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:31:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
They day is coming when they are just going to coat California in Nerf so no one gets hurt.



That's actually a great idea with all the earthquakes they have there.

If there was one state that says "DO NOT LIVE HERE", it's Cali. Mudslides, wildfires, earthquakes, smog (in parts)... How do you CA guys do it???
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:33:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 9:39:28 AM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
They day is coming when they are just going to coat California in Nerf so no one gets hurt.



That's actually a great idea with all the earthquakes they have there.

If there was one state that says "DO NOT LIVE HERE", it's Cali. Mudslides, wildfires, earthquakes, smog (in parts)... How do you CA guys do it???



I moved to California, from Michigan, and it's a huge improvement.

But dont worry, it's comming to your state too.

Police concerned about toy guns

Pellet guns resemble real firearms creating potential danger on street.

By JON OTTMAN - Staff Writer

Is it real or a toy?

That's a tough question for Shelby Township police officers to answer in a split second if confronted by a gun on the street.

Township police have been notified that a local dollar store is selling plastic pistols that fire a hard pellet at a relatively high velocity.

The potential for mom's concern of "You'll shoot your eye out," is one thing, but the situation could be much worse, according to Shelby Township Police Chief Robert Leman.

Across the nation and particularly in New York City, several people bearing toy guns have been shot and injured or killed by police officers who mistakenly believed the guns that they saw were real.

"They look real," Leman said. "Our concern is that a 15-year-old who has one of these things might have one of these on them and if one of our officers approaches him and sees this gun, the results could be disastrous."

Such shootings are tragic, as the loss of life is regrettable, but police officers must also deal with the consequences of their defensive actions.

"In these cases, the shootings can be justified," Leman said.

There are several potential scenarios that could bring police in contact with someone possessing one of the pellet guns.

Police often come in contact with teens walking around the community after dark. A teen with one of the weapons tucked in a waistband would trigger a defensive response from police.

"Or what if a child had one of these and left it in their parent's car and the parent was pulled over on a traffic stop," Leman said. "The officer would go defensive and handle the driver a lot differently than a normal traffic violation. It would be an extremely stressful situation for all involved."

Teens and guns are not unknown to police.

Leman said that police receive reports every once in a while regarding teens or children spotted walking into woods with a rifle.

"Ninety-nine percent of the time, it turns out to be a BB rifle," he said.

In the late 1980s, a federal law was passed requiring toy manufacturers to market toy guns that appeared less realistic and thus less likely to be confused with a real firearm. A later law required toy guns to have a solid, bright orange plug at the barrel to help police officers and others recognize that the gun was not real.

However, some enterprising children or adults have been known to either remove the plug or paint it black to circumvent the rule.

More recent manufacture has also brought the marketing of very realistic-looking BB guns that are dead-ringers for the real thing.

The gun in question in Shelby Township, a plastic replica of a Heckler and Koch 9-mm semi-automatic, has a very small red ring around the muzzle of the gun.

"You can barely see it," Leman said. "It would be hard to distinguish it in an instant if it were drawn, and at night or in low visibility, I think an officer wouldn't see it at all."

Leman compared the gun side-by-side with a Glock 27, a compact .40-caliber semi-automatic typically issued to detectives.

"You can see that they are very similar in size and appearance," he said. "While the toy gun has wood-type grips and ours, the Glock, does not, there are other small semi-automatics out there that have wooden grips that look just like this."

While the store that is the source of the guns has a sign posted that sales will be limited to those 18 and older, Leman said that one complaint received came from the parent of a 13-year-old boy.

Leman strongly encourages parents to be aware of the guns and the potential danger they pose.

"We would hope that the store would abide by their rule and limit the sale to adults 18 and over," he said. "And we suggest parents use good judgment in terms of letting their children have something like this."

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:36:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
effing safety police at work for the nanny state.



I get several road rage related calls involving airsoft guns every week. For some reason, highschool kids like to paint the orange tip then carry the Airsoft in their car to brandish at anyone who pissess them off in traffic. We have had major traffic collisions becuase some kid pointed an airsoft at another driver, who swerved in response and caused a collision.

We have also had several robberies with airsoft, and many suicides-by-cop involving Airsoft.

Airsoft might not be a problem in your state. It's a huge problem in So Cal.



You think a $100 fine is going to stop someone from robbing a bank or committing suicide?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:41:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By jeremy223:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
effing safety police at work for the nanny state.



I get several road rage related calls involving airsoft guns every week. For some reason, highschool kids like to paint the orange tip then carry the Airsoft in their car to brandish at anyone who pissess them off in traffic. We have had major traffic collisions becuase some kid pointed an airsoft at another driver, who swerved in response and caused a collision.

We have also had several robberies with airsoft, and many suicides-by-cop involving Airsoft.

Airsoft might not be a problem in your state. It's a huge problem in So Cal.



You think a $100 fine is going to stop someone from robbing a bank or committing suicide?



No, it will stop the nuisance calls, so we can focus on the bank robbers and suicidal gunmen. Cuts down on the signal to noise ratio.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:41:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 9:43:13 AM EST by NorCal_LEO]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
They day is coming when they are just going to coat California in Nerf so no one gets hurt.





I was wondering why my dept just issued us these:

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:42:35 AM EST
Growing up we had toy guns and we roamed the streets with them. We even walked down major streets in West L.A with bb guns and never once did we get questioned.

why didn't we have problems then...

So, what is the problem now?
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:43:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By deimos:

Originally Posted By DavidC:
Wonder what happens when they see something like this?

www.supercharger.net/private/cavblue.jpg






+1
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:45:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
They day is coming when they are just going to coat California in Nerf so no one gets hurt.



That's actually a great idea with all the earthquakes they have there.

If there was one state that says "DO NOT LIVE HERE", it's Cali. Mudslides, wildfires, earthquakes, smog (in parts)... How do you CA guys do it???



I moved to California, from Michigan, and it's a huge improvement.

But dont worry, it's comming to your state too.

*snip*



You like it better in Cali? With all the stuff I mentioned? Only thing crappy about MI is that we're getting more liberal (by inches... though CCW and dove hunting are recent conservative "wins") as time goes on... You enjoy Cali. I am not particularly enamored of MI, in all honestly... but I'd never move to Cali. SC, NC, TN, TX, NM and AZ are on my preferred list.

As for the article, I saw that when it was making the rounds. Local TV showed a cop holding up one of the offending plastic Airsoft type guns... for a second. Then they edited the video to ONLY show the officer's REAL gun... so it looked exactly like a real gun, no orange muzzle or anything. Silly "scare-the-sheeple" tactic.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:48:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
effing safety police at work for the nanny state.



I get several road rage related calls involving airsoft guns every week. For some reason, highschool kids like to paint the orange tip then carry the Airsoft in their car to brandish at anyone who pissess them off in traffic. We have had major traffic collisions becuase some kid pointed an airsoft at another driver, who swerved in response and caused a collision.

We have also had several robberies with airsoft, and many suicides-by-cop involving Airsoft.

Airsoft might not be a problem in your state. It's a huge problem in So Cal.



So, write down the tags of these little asses and file a complaint. Is it not threatening deadly force to point a weapon, immitation or not, at someone? Seems to me the law is already equiped to deal with it. Of course I'm sure the ban will now stop assholes from flashing them as they drive by since it's the law now! Nope just like the parent said... More safety police bullshit from our nanny state.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:49:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 9:49:33 AM EST by Lumpy196]
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:50:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
Growing up we had toy guns and we roamed the streets with them. We even walked down major streets in West L.A with bb guns and never once did we get questioned.

why didn't we have problems then...

So, what is the problem now?



The problem now is its not 8 year olds playing cops & robbers. Its 21 year olds carrying them into clubs in their waistbands, and 16 year olds pointing them at drivers in traffic.

Just last week I had a suicide by cop attempt involving an Airsoft. Guy called 911, said he had a gun and was going to kill his roommate and himself. We got there and the guy was infront of the house holding the "gun." Fortunatley he was standing very close to a street light and we could see the "gun" well enough to be reasonably sure it was not a real gun, so we didnt kill him. We wacked him on the forearm with an ASP instead. Now he has something to be depressed about, a crippled right arm.

He was very pissed off that we did not shoot him.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:53:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
Hes gonna terminate every single freedom left in CA...



...All 6 of them?




It is rare that something I read makes me laugh out loud, but that did it!

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:55:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
Growing up we had toy guns and we roamed the streets with them. We even walked down major streets in West L.A with bb guns and never once did we get questioned.

why didn't we have problems then...

So, what is the problem now?



The problem now is its not 8 year olds playing cops & robbers. Its 21 year olds carrying them into clubs in their waistbands, and 16 year olds pointing them at drivers in traffic.

Just last week I had a suicide by cop attempt involving an Airsoft. Guy called 911, said he had a gun and was going to kill his roommate and himself. We got there and the guy was infront of the house holding the "gun." Fortunatley he was standing very close to a street light and we could see the "gun" well enough to be reasonably sure it was not a real gun, so we didnt kill him. We wacked him on the forearm with an ASP instead. Now he has something to be depressed about, a crippled right arm.

He was very pissed off that we did not shoot him.




Why not let natural selection take it's course? Seriously, the dumbass who brings a BB gun to a gun fight is going to lose. I just can't see the danger. I'd love to see them pulling this in a state with LTC.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 9:57:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
They day is coming when they are just going to coat California in Nerf so no one gets hurt.



That's actually a great idea with all the earthquakes they have there.

If there was one state that says "DO NOT LIVE HERE", it's Cali. Mudslides, wildfires, earthquakes, smog (in parts)... How do you CA guys do it???



I moved to California, from Michigan, and it's a huge improvement.

But dont worry, it's comming to your state too.

*snip*



You like it better in Cali? With all the stuff I mentioned? Only thing crappy about MI is...



The Weather
The huge welfare roles
The recent Somali immigrants
The high property tax rates
The Pistol Purchase Permit
The any firearm under 30" is a "handgun" law
The rusted out cars
Went with Gore in 2000
Going with Kerry in 2004
The prison Union
The auto unions
Your Canadian overlord <G>
Getting candian change from stores
Michigan gives drivers licenses to illegals
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 10:01:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
[ Is it not threatening deadly force to point a weapon, immitation or not, at someone?



Brandish a replica firarm. A cite and release misdemeanor offence. The "victim" has to sign an order of arrest though. Shitty thing about "victims" is they always call, they always want the cops to show up, they always "just thought you should know" but when it comes time to sign an order of arrest 90% back out. I cant wait until i'm a short timer and can ask those people "then why the fuck did you call us!?"
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 10:03:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Kids should be banned.




For the children, of course!


Ban Children. Do it for the guns!
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