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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/6/2001 6:12:39 PM EDT
I went to the Harrisburg show in Pa today looking for AR-15 stuff and FAL kits. In the show i found a Pa dealer who had a Bushmaster preban striped lower for $500. MMMMM sounds like a deal. Its in pretty nice shape so i asked if was ever a complete rifle. The guy in charge says yes it was a Pittsburg police gun that was stripped. So i boughtit for $500. Then when i got home someone gave me the site with the preban numbers. This one has a 100,000 more numbers than a preban. In the L150,xxx range The cutoff is around L060,000 range. Should my first call be to the ATF?
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:17:34 PM EDT
I would call the manufacturer first to verify the number. If it is in fact not, I would try to take it back to the guy who sold it to you and get my money back. Best thing to do is keep a list of ser #'s with you when you go to a show. Buyer be ware.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:17:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By flashx: I went to the Harrisburg show in Pa today looking for AR-15 stuff and FAL kits. In the show i found a Pa dealer who had a Bushmaster preban striped lower for $500. MMMMM sounds like a deal. Its in pretty nice shape so i asked if was ever a complete rifle. The guy in charge says yes it was a Pittsburg police gun that was stripped. So i boughtit for $500. Then when i got home someone gave me the site with the preban numbers. This one has a 100,000 more numbers than a preban. In the L150,xxx range The cutoff is around L060,000 range. Should my first call be to the ATF?
View Quote
No. ATF can't help you if you bought a postban lower, and you thought it was preban. Find the guy if you can, and get your money back, he screwed you over, but ATF won't be any help. All they can say is, "Gee, guess you can't build it into a preban then, eh?" Sorry to hear it happened.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:22:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2001 6:22:14 PM EDT by MelonPopper-M1A]
Yep. Print the list from the computer, and the next time you see this *sshole, LOUDLY inform him that you don't appreciate him defrauding you, the more people around, the better.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:31:10 PM EDT
That ain't right. What happened to being honest?
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:34:08 PM EDT
Does this dealer have a name? I'm sure all the AR15.com viewers in and around PA would like to know who this piece of crap is.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:35:53 PM EDT
Build your gun and stick it down his throat, preferably when his mouth is shut. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:36:51 PM EDT
Depending on the response i get from the guy, I am going to call Bushmaster in the AM and see what they say. Maybe the guy was taking someone elses word for it. But a postban Bushmaster lower is only worth about $150 at the most(especially used) I am not a happy camper at this point
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:37:00 PM EDT
These kind of people suck. I was at a show recently and a guy had a low serial number 1903 Springfield that he was trying to sell as a good shooter. He could possibly get someone hurt and I loudly told him so.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:41:00 PM EDT
If this guy doesnt make good on this deal his name will be here in LARGE PRINT in the near future
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 7:02:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 7:04:29 PM EDT
The last fucking thing I'd do is go to the ATF. Number one, at this point it's your word against his. Getting the enemy involved aint going to do you any good, it only makes their job easier. I've been through this situation before, so I know how pissed you are, but no need for the authorities. Hell just the last night I posted a thread after I got sold some LE only mags at a gunshow. Took them back and exchanged them no problem after explaining to him that this was a felony. Two years ago I was at a gun show in KC,MO and was sold a complete rifle that was supposed to be a pre ban. Well he was gone the next day and I didn't have a reciept. Instead of going to the authorities, I called the person who put on the gun show and did a little detective work and got his home phone number, turns out he lived in another state. Called him up and got real shitty about it, it wasn't long before he was ready to meet me and give my money back. I probably would have just kept it and ended up parting it out but it barely worth what I payed for it with the condition it was in unless the lower reciever had been a pre ban. Anyway, hope this works out for you, I know how frustrating it can be. It's shit like this that'll get gun shows shut down. It would be one thing skirting the law for the commen good, but when you start ripping people off in the name of greed, well then FUCK YOU!
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 7:52:44 PM EDT
Gun shows are full of sheisters and assholes. I've seen people trying to sell postban AR's for $1500. I have also often seen preban upper receivers on postban lowers, illegal SBR's, and LOTS of piece of crap rifles that had "Colt Preban!" on the tag, when it was obviously not. I always like to know everything before I buy ANYTHING at a gunshow. If I have to I give them $20 (with receipt) and have them hold it until I can verify what it is and what it is worth. Like someone said before, I don't mean to be rude, but you were taken for a $400 ride. Get your money back. If he won't give it to you then threaten to file police charges for theft by deception, because he essentially conned you into buying something that it was not. If he does not take the threat seriously, then press charges. Let him know that kind of bullshit will not be tolerated.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 8:04:11 PM EDT
Yes Flashx, you got hosed. My pre-ban Bush is L059xxx. It was made in the summer of 94. Going to the ATF will do you no good. He sold you a lower the pre-ban features are on the upper. If he sold you a pre-ban upper on a post ban lower then there might be a case. When buying a Pre-ban Buy the whole rifle, get a signed statement from the seller that the rifle was in that configuration prior to 9-13-94. If he won't do it pass on it. That pole smoker needs an ass whippin.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 8:21:07 PM EDT
Caveat Emptor. I'm sorry you got burned. The Federal Assault Weapons law was passed, what?, in 1994??, and it's now 2001, I don't think it is right to expect that one can circumvent the spirit and intent of the law by purchasing a "pre-ban" lower that differs from a post-ban by mere virtue of a serial number and assemble a pre-ban rifle, in fact, I've asked and received a direct answer from ATF and they referred me to the US Code where it's reasonable to assume that buying a pre-ban rifle after the effective date of the law is a violation. I know many people insist that there are lowers out there that somehow came from legal pre-1994 rifles that can be today re-assembled into pre-ban rifles. Let them be right in their own minds, but they will be violating the law regardless.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 8:21:28 PM EDT
Why not, call um
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 2:57:50 AM EDT
I'll be calling the dealer as soon as he opens this mourning I have a reciept and this shop is within driving distance from me. Yes Silver Surfer i should have had the numbers with me. I wasnt planning on buying a preban yeaterday and now wish i hadnt. Its hard to believe this dealer didnt know it was a post ban. Ill let you guys know tonight how i made out thanks for the input
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 3:06:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By flashx: Ill let you guys know tonight how i made out thanks for the input
View Quote
Post a picture of his larynx.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 3:16:07 AM EDT
Oh man! Sorry to hear that you got a raw deal. I have gone to the Great Western Gun Show, in Pomona, Calif, in the past, and man, it always scares the $hit out of me to buy something that expensive there. Now add the pre/post ban stuff. UGH! You have to be right on top of it. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 4:25:30 AM EDT
The 2 times I bought lower receivers the were marked post ban on receipt. So if he marked pre ban you have some proof. Forget ATF. I would go to his shop or call if he is close and be humble. Say sir I think you made a misterke in marking this receiver I call Bushmaster and verified the serial number and it is a post ban. I would like a price adjustment or a pre ban with proper serial number. If he doesn't do this then chalk it up to he is a sc mbag. I HAVE TO SAY IT AGAIN WE NEED A SH T LIST. With an explanation of what the dealer did or didn't do so the customer can make his/her choice. Got to go to work guys good luck
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 5:30:21 AM EDT
Did you ever consider that the guy was just stupid? You automatically assumed he was a cheat. Perhaps the Cop who sold it to him told him it was pre-ban. Just because the cop had evil features on his gun I can believe a cop would think it was pre-ban because many are ignorant of such things. Did the dealer actually say it was pre-ban or just let you assume that it was? It could easily have been a LEO gun only and not marked as such. I would contact the dealer and give them the chance of redemption before calling shenanigans. Was it a dealer and you did 4473? Or a private sale?
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:53:25 AM EDT
whats the preocupation with pre ban ARs.if your so stupid and dont know what your looking at you dont need a pre ban.most dealers lie or dont know either.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:54:00 AM EDT
whats the preocupation with pre ban ARs.if your so stupid and dont know what your looking at you dont need a pre ban.most dealers lie or dont know either.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 11:03:11 AM EDT
your story reminds me of a time i went to JIMS PAWN and GUN in Wilmington NC and was about to pay 1200 for a Bushy shorty. When I asked the manager "Nick" about preban or postban he said he couldn't comment on it and it wasn;t his responsibility to worry about it..Anyway i wrote down the Ser # and called Bushy later that day...sure enough...it was a postban that someone in the store had put together with collapsable stock-flashhider ect....i didn't go back but later heard a story about a guy who bought a supposedly preban Bushy 20'gun and checked the #'s and sure enough--it was a postban with flashider ect....He took it back and they produced a preban to replace it--So if you're in NC and dealing with Jim's---Beware!!!!!Dick
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 11:08:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 11:59:35 AM EDT
Well, not to promote my own software or anything, but if you'd been equipped with a Handspring Visor (or any PalmOS device) and my AR15 Serial # list you would have known that it was obviously post ban. you can download it from [url]http://www.brianlane.com/SN15.php[/url] Its too bad you got ripped off, but remember that there are always bad people out there who want to take advantage of you in one way or another. Protect yourself and always be skeptical! Brian
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 12:03:40 PM EDT
Yeah this kind of thing really sucks. The last show I attended a guy had a bushmaster with a preban barrel on it. He was wanting $1200. My buddy picks it up and the serial number is like 120,000 something, and asks me if that’s preban. I respond in a loud voice, “That is an illegal postban” The next time around the show the guy had the factory BM postban upper on the gun, which had been under the table. This piece of trash know what he was doing. Ever since the AW ban in 89 people have been getting burned by this sort of crap. Some of these raw deals are people who really don’t know or understand the law, the rest are liars and thieves. All I can say, unless you really know what you doing you’d better get someone on your side who does. Or find a dealer that can be trusted, which isn’t easy. The problem with firearms is every thinks they’re an “expert”. In today’s second hand AW market you’ve got to watch you back. I’ve seen some really good fakes as well as “incorrect” samples. Has someone suggested, for AR-15 preban shopping, print the list and take it with you. Watch yourself out there.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 12:56:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2001 1:03:26 PM EDT by flashx]
I got in touch with the dealer this mourning. Since i did pay with a credit card he said he wouldnt charge it to me and i just have to mail it back to him. I think im gonna take some closeup pictures of it showing the serial number Then send it so someone has to sign for it. That way if it is charged to my credit card i have proof that it was returned Dave Hineman the lower had a tag on it that said PreBan Bushmater lower reciever. Scoop if you have to ask what the attraction is then im not sure you understand the whole deal If you put a preban Bushmaster next to a postban Bushmaster reciever the only difference is the number
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