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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:46:41 PM EDT
You want to surrender your 4th amendent rights by sending that in? BATFE can show up at your door and search your house if you have that.

Well! F that. I'll pay a little extra for another Yugo 7mm, thank you very much. I don't need anybody knocking on my door.

But before the forms make their way to the shredder, what's the Hive Mind say about this? True or false?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:47:09 PM EDT
False
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 9:59:15 PM EDT
Yep, false.

In the unlikely event that the BATFE ever wants to review your C&R collection or records, you have the option of bringing them to the local BATFE office.

A C&R license does NOT give the BATFE permission to enter your home, unless you invite them.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:03:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 10:04:24 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
Your friend is a paranoid fruitcake. They don't do unscheduled inspections, and they certainly are not allowed to search your entire house. In fact, given their funding, inspections of ANY C&R holders are extremely rare, and at most a perfunctory exercise in checking that you keep records - NOT searching any premises.



Relax, and send in the paperwork already.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:08:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 10:09:00 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Yep, false.

In the unlikely event that the BATFE ever wants to review your C&R collection or records, you have the option of bringing them to the local BATFE office.

A C&R license does NOT give the BATFE permission to enter your home, unless you invite them.



Correct

I have had my C&R for 7 years and never heard from the ATF other than by mail and then only for bulletins, updates on laws, and a renewal application.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:08:52 PM EDT
WHAT??? where in the paperwork does it say "By signing this you give up your 4th amendment right?"

Paranoid I tell ya... He's PARANOID!!!!


If you have second thoughts, go to the C&R forum on ARFCOM and ask them if any of them had unwanted visits from BATFE.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:19:07 PM EDT
Solid. I have officially changed my mind, this stuff is in the mail Monday following a call to my local BTAFE office to confirm the above. From a pay phone downtown. Hey, better safe than sorry, right?

Thanks, guys. Now I can get a Mauser delivered right to my doorstep!

Now I need to avoid selling too many guns so as to not be considered a business, right? Are there some guidelines as to how many transactions you can be involved with in a year? Let's say I buy ten Yugo SKS's in a year and I sell 8 of them. Can I be legitimately considered a collector that was scrumming around for an interesting rifle and didn't get one?

I'll head off to C&R corner if this is more appropriately directed over there.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:21:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 10:21:34 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Upstat:
Solid. I have officially changed my mind, this stuff is in the mail Monday following a call to my local BTAFE office to confirm the above. From a pay phone downtown. Hey, better safe than sorry, right?




Don't forget to talk through a handkerchief...
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:24:08 PM EDT
And if they can they can only do it once per year anyway.

Thanks FOPA!
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:30:26 PM EDT
Just think of the discounts you are missing out on
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 10:38:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Your friend is a paranoid fruitcake.





Soooooooo which ARFCOM member is he?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:12:25 PM EDT
there is no yugo 7mm. the yugo 59/66 sks is not a c&r in california. you will be broke in a month if you get your c&r but you will get great deals on everything.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:16:20 PM EDT
False
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:19:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 11:26:47 PM EDT by Hoppy]
Find a new friend. The one you have is full of shit.


Originally Posted By Upstat:
Solid. I have officially changed my mind, this stuff is in the mail Monday following a call to my local BTAFE office to confirm the above. From a pay phone downtown. Hey, better safe than sorry, right?




Wrapped a little tight aren't we?



Thanks, guys. Now I can get a Mauser delivered right to my doorstep!

Now I need to avoid selling too many guns so as to not be considered a business, right? Are there some guidelines as to how many transactions you can be involved with in a year? Let's say I buy ten Yugo SKS's in a year and I sell 8 of them. Can I be legitimately considered a collector that was scrumming around for an interesting rifle and didn't get one?

I'll head off to C&R corner if this is more appropriately directed over there.




If you buy ten and sell eight you run the risk of being seen as a dealer. There is no set amount that you can sell, but you must not appear to be using your C&R as a business.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 11:28:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2005 11:28:33 PM EDT by eodtech2000]
Let your paranoid friend pay extra, while you collect goodies and get hefty discounts from Midway & Brownells.

Just ordered myself a K-31 from AIM for $89.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:36:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 4:37:57 AM EDT by Jack19]
Originally Posted By Upstat:
Solid. I have officially changed my mind, this stuff is in the mail Monday following a call to my local BTAFE office to confirm the above. From a pay phone downtown. Hey, better safe than sorry, right?

lol; Better use that pay phone. If they weren't going to search your house before....they will after that call. "Hello BATmen? I'd just like to confirm that you are NOT able to search my entire house if I have a C&R license, is that right?"

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:17:22 AM EDT
I have heard this paranoid comment before as well. It was from a respected member. I will send my paperwork anyway!
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:48:37 AM EDT
My paperwork goes in the mail today on the way to work.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:02:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 6:02:53 AM EDT by TheCynic]

Originally Posted By Upstat:
Well! F that. I'll pay a little extra for another Yugo 7mm, thank you very much. I don't need anybody knocking on my door.



Just curious, do you often make major decisions
based on rumor and supposition?

You should probably read the rules and regs
associated with the license before you just sign
some paperwork.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:05:45 AM EDT
Tin Foil, Isle 1
Tin Foil, Isle 1
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:19:37 AM EDT
You know,

I had several people tell me that getting an NFA item was grounds for ATF to search your home 2x's a year to keep tabs on said item. This was back in 1989 or so and I passed a few M16's for about $1000. I could afford them back then and wished I had picked them up. I didn't find out until later on that they were full of crap. I should have called ATF back then to get the real info, but like you, I didn't want any interaction with them if I could avoid it. <kicking own ass>

Now I really want an M16 and can't afford it for the life of me.

I really wish people wouldn't spout BS about things they have zero clue in. Or you could legally kick their ass if you find out they are wrong and it cost you. Bring back public flogging? - not a bad idea....


Before you denigrate me too much, the internet was still a college/uber geek thing - little known, but I was surfing BBS's with my AT/PC way back then, looking for porn of course.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:10:51 AM EDT
With a C&R, they may ask to inspect your bound book. They don't inspect your residence, unless there is some reason to and it takes a warrant.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:35:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Upstat:

Now I need to avoid selling too many guns so as to not be considered a business, right? Are there some guidelines as to how many transactions you can be involved with in a year? Let's say I buy ten Yugo SKS's in a year and I sell 8 of them. Can I be legitimately considered a collector that was scrumming around for an interesting rifle and didn't get one?





Not to sound like ANOTHER paranoid person, but if you are PLANNING on selling lots of firearms, I'm not sure a C&R license is the one you need. Maybe I'm just overinterpreting what you wrote, but that first sentence sounded a little calculating Apologies if I mis-read it.

The primary purpose of the C&R is purely for collecting. As someone decides to change or downsize their collection, of course they can sell firearms off. By the same token, if someone really wanted a nice Yugo, the might buy ten of them, for exactly the reason you are poiting out.

However, if the ATF DO decide to inspect your records, and they see that you regularly buy 10 of a rifle, and then turn around and sell most of them (at gunshows or to your buddies) they'd probably be quite unhappy with that. I have no doubt they've heard the "Oh, but I bought 10 of them just to find a nice one, and then sold the 9 I didn't like" argument before.



That said - even if you go crazy, and sell 20 guns a year - I find it HIGHLY unlikely that the ATF would ever even notice. So knock yourself out. Would I do it, or recommend it? Absolutely not - because that's not what the license is for.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:39:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 7:42:37 AM EDT by AZ-Dave]

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Upstat:
Well! F that. I'll pay a little extra for another Yugo 7mm, thank you very much. I don't need anybody knocking on my door.



Just curious, do you often make major decisions
based on rumor and supposition?

You should probably read the rules and regs
associated with the license before you just sign
some paperwork.



+ 1--I'm sure you didn't just decide a day or two ago to go for a CCR, you would think more people would do their own research on something that seems so important to them, instead of asking a group of people you never met their opinions right before you might drop something in the mail.

Reminds me of the guys that say "i'm going on vacation tomorrow four states away, can I carry concealed across them all?"
ETA: I'm sure the state trooper will understand if you say "the guy on ARFCOM said......"
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:45:13 AM EDT
I got my C&R several months ago, but haven't bought any guns with it and don't own any C&R eligible guns. I've used it to get my discounts... don't have the money for guns right now.

What would the ATF say if I show up for an inspection with no books and no guns??

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:49:59 AM EDT
Stop worrying. Under the Patriot Act they can search your house any time they want, anyway. They don't need a C&R license as an excuse.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:56:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Stop worrying. Under the Patriot Act they can search your house any time they want, anyway. They don't need a C&R license as an excuse.



Exactly. If there is any valid suspicion of firearm violations, the BATFE will be knocking on/down your door with a warrant no matter what licensure you do or don't have.

I think the whole "surrender your 4th rights" scare was started by some 01 surplus dealer trying to keep his customers from getting C&R and cutting into his profits.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:57:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DDiggler:
I got my C&R several months ago, but haven't bought any guns with it and don't own any C&R eligible guns. I've used it to get my discounts... don't have the money for guns right now.

What would the ATF say if I show up for an inspection with no books and no guns??




They wouldn't care at all - just like the DMV wouldn't care if I got a license, but never drove a car.

Seriously - buy a Yugo or Turk or something! It's cool just to have it shipped to your house.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:10:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
<snip>

Seriously - buy a Yugo or Turk or something! It's cool just to have it shipped to your house.


I know, I know. I am concentrating on paying off my debt, then look out! NFA, here I come... and maybe a few Mausers or something to keep me busy.

Seriously though, I ordered a few GoldenRods for the my safe and my cousin's safe, and then a couple other things from Brownells... and I already made my money back with the C&R with one order.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:29:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:35:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Stop worrying. Under the Patriot Act they can search your house any time they want, anyway. They don't need a C&R license as an excuse.



Which section allows them to "search your house any time they want"?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:37:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Stop worrying. Under the Patriot Act they can search your house any time they want, anyway. They don't need a C&R license as an excuse.



Which section allows them to "search your house any time they want"?




The magic section that is typed on invisible double-sided tinfoil - with free-mason typewriters.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:40:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Stop worrying. Under the Patriot Act they can search your house any time they want, anyway. They don't need a C&R license as an excuse.



Which section allows them to "search your house any time they want"?




The magic section that is typed on invisible double-sided tinfoil - with free-mason typewriters.



Oh yes, that section, must have slipped my mind, or rather, the memory was wiped by the mind control rays from the weather channel, I must remember, shiny side out...
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