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Posted: 8/20/2004 8:06:46 AM EST
I purchased my gun online and had it shipped to a ffl , well I was excited to say the least.

I have owned guns but all bought thru private parties.

I thought this time I am going to buy a brand new gun so I did .. now after the 3rd day on the background check they denied me !What now? ...
The gunshop owner says he cant do anything with the gun .. wont ship it back or anything.
So my question what do I do now?

I dont even know the reason I got denied but believe it may have something to do with some trouble I got into .. while working at a convient store me and this coworker were scanning lottery tickets and not paying for them. Really just messing around with out thinking about the consequances .. ( stupid yes I know) but because I had stayed out of trouble the judge gave me a defered sentance so it would not be on my record if I finished probation ..

Also when I was a senoir in high school a couple of people stole a car and we were all hanging out at Mcdonalds and the police busted the whole crew and I was busted with them but that was also a defered sentance .

So both of these were defered so they should not stop me from owning a rifle so I assume does that sound right ?

Anyone know what options I have ?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:09:27 AM EST
If both incidents are still on your record, and that is why you got denied you can ask the courts to purge them from your record.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:11:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:11:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dv8xbox:
I dont even know the reason I got denied but believe it may have something to do with some trouble I got into .. while working at a convient store me and this coworker were scanning lottery tickets and not paying for them. Really just messing around with out thinking about the consequances .. ( stupid yes I know) but because I had stayed out of trouble the judge gave me a defered sentance so it would not be on my record if I finished probation ..

Also when I was a senoir in high school a couple of people stole a car and we were all hanging out at Mcdonalds and the police busted the whole crew and I was busted with them but that was also a defered sentance .

So both of these were defered so they should not stop me from owning a rifle so I assume does that sound right ?

Anyone know what options I have ?



Options? Perhaps you could take up needlepoint until you mature a little more!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:11:19 AM EST
You are clearly too dangerous to be allowed the privledge of firearms ownership.


Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:13:20 AM EST
Dont get me wrong I know I messed up ..but this is all atleast 5 years ago.. which is truelly not a long time . I have grown up a lot since then and would not put myself in these situations ..I am not trying to start a flame war.

I have never been in trouble for anything violent or drug related .

I am just asking for advice.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:13:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
You are clearly too dangerous to be allowed the privledge of firearms ownership.





Privilege?

It's a right, he just needs to grow up some!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:13:59 AM EST
Change your life. Change your friends. Get a judge to hear your case.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:15:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 8:17:01 AM EST by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:17:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
You are clearly too dangerous to be allowed the privledge of firearms ownership.





Privilege?

It's a right, he just needs to grow up some!



I am 97% sure that is just his sense of humor, don't worry.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:17:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dv8xbox:
Dont get me wrong I know I messed up ..but this is all atleast 5 years ago.. which is truelly not a long time . I have grown up a lot since then and would not put myself in these situations ..I am not trying to start a flame war.

I have never been in trouble for anything violent or drug related .

I am just asking for advice.



In my case, I was charged with a crime at 13. The judge deferred the chanrges until I was 18. When I turned 18 and sent the judge a copy of my high school diploma, he dropped the charges.

You may be able to do something similar for the stolen car thing, IF you were a minor at the time.

As for the lottery ticket deal, was this a felony or misdemenor? If it was a felony, then you may have to wait 10 years from the time you completed your probation until you can petition the court to reinstate your rights.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:19:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
You are clearly too dangerous to be allowed the privledge of firearms ownership.





Privilege?

It's a right, he just needs to grow up some!



I am 97% sure that is just his sense of humor, don't worry.




It's an Imbroglioism. The bastard contaminated the pool quite a bit.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:19:51 AM EST
YOU SIR ARE A CRIMINAL!! Nah just kidding wait a few more years. Hope this didn't cost you much cash
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:20:02 AM EST
"deferred sentence" does not = no conviction

That car theft thing was probably a felony. If you do have a felony conviction on your record, you probably had better get rid of all your firearms. Felon in possession is a major bust these days.

If both the mentioned incidents were misdemenors, then there is no reason to deny you. Probably a case of mistaken identity. BTW, the reporting authority HAS to tell you exactly why you were denied. Find out from your FFL who did the check (state/federal) and contact them.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:23:07 AM EST
I did some stupid stuff, it took 10 years for my record to be purged
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:23:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
"deferred sentence" does not = no conviction

That car theft thing was probably a felony. If you do have a felony conviction on your record, you probably had better get rid of all your firearms. Felon in possession is a major bust these days.

If both the mentioned incidents were misdemenors, then there is no reason to deny you. Probably a case of mistaken identity. BTW, the reporting authority HAS to tell you exactly why you were denied. Find out from your FFL who did the check (state/federal) and contact them.



5 years!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:24:05 AM EST
Why is it always "a little trouble"?
Get the appeal form and good luck, hopefully you didnt lie on the 4473, because thats perjury and another crime certainly wouldnt help your new hobby.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:25:09 AM EST
Time to hire a lawyer. You can pay for him by selling your illegally possessed firearms.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:25:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
"deferred sentence" does not = no conviction

That car theft thing was probably a felony. If you do have a felony conviction on your record, you probably had better get rid of all your firearms. Felon in possession is a major bust these days.

If both the mentioned incidents were misdemenors, then there is no reason to deny you. Probably a case of mistaken identity. BTW, the reporting authority HAS to tell you exactly why you were denied. Find out from your FFL who did the check (state/federal) and contact them.


I think there is a certain class of violent misdemeanors that will also cause you to loose your gun rights.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:26:23 AM EST
Yeah , the dealer told me to come down and pick up some papers and it will explain the appeal process.
So I am going down there today to pick up the paper work .

Before attempting to get the gun I did call out local non-emergency police number and they stated that if they were defered and not actual convictions that they could not deny me ownership .

I can't believe that I am getting so many negative responses .. as a American I was under the impression it was a right outlined in the constitution , right? yet so many of you are quick to respond telling me to grow up ..

I did everything by the books I was not one of those people to go out and by one in the paper or a stolen one or even at a gun show. So cut me some slack I am simply asking for advise ... hinking.gif
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:29:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
"deferred sentence" does not = no conviction

That car theft thing was probably a felony. If you do have a felony conviction on your record, you probably had better get rid of all your firearms. Felon in possession is a major bust these days.

If both the mentioned incidents were misdemenors, then there is no reason to deny you. Probably a case of mistaken identity. BTW, the reporting authority HAS to tell you exactly why you were denied. Find out from your FFL who did the check (state/federal) and contact them.




Both were considered felonies .. but does anyone know if a defered sentance is actually a guilty convictions?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:30:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:30:14 AM EST
Start the appeal process immediately. I asked my local dealer what she does when folks get denied the first time and she said she calls it in with additional information and they usually get approved at that step. I'm not sure how the process works but ask your dealer about it.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:30:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 8:31:33 AM EST by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By Dv8xbox:

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
"deferred sentence" does not = no conviction

That car theft thing was probably a felony. If you do have a felony conviction on your record, you probably had better get rid of all your firearms. Felon in possession is a major bust these days.

If both the mentioned incidents were misdemenors, then there is no reason to deny you. Probably a case of mistaken identity. BTW, the reporting authority HAS to tell you exactly why you were denied. Find out from your FFL who did the check (state/federal) and contact them.




Both were considered felonies .. but does anyone know if a defered sentance is actually a guilty convictions?



You would not have been given ANY sentence absent a conviction.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:32:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dv8xbox:
Yeah , the dealer told me to come down and pick up some papers and it will explain the appeal process.
So I am going down there today to pick up the paper work .

Before attempting to get the gun I did call out local non-emergency police number and they stated that if they were defered and not actual convictions that they could not deny me ownership .

I can't believe that I am getting so many negative responses .. as a American I was under the impression it was a right outlined in the constitution , right? yet so many of you are quick to respond telling me to grow up ..

I did everything by the books I was not one of those people to go out and by one in the paper or a stolen one or even at a gun show. So cut me some slack I am simply asking for advise ...



Don't take the criticism so hard. Most people here (myself included) believe that gun ownership is an inalienable right. Everyone screws up, some worse than others. Take it more like encourangement to keep your nose clean!

As for the gun, go through the appeal process, find out what the reason you were disqualified was and work toward getting your record cleared. It isn't the end of the world, and getting in trouble in the past doesn't necessarily make you a bad person.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:33:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 8:38:37 AM EST by dalusa]
Same thing happened to me a year ago trying to re-new my Illinois FOI card. I've had a card for 30 straight years. In Illinois, you have to renew your card every 5 years. I called the state police on it. They told me since 911, federal authorities are doing very serious background checks on all new renewals. They told me I had a conviction from 30 years ago, having to do with a "stolen" engine on a dirtbike. Went through court on that 30 years ago and all charges were thrown out. Had to go to that courthouse and pay $20.00 for CERTIFIED copies of the expulsion. Took them about a week to find the files from that long ago. Sent the CERTIFIED copies back to the state police. Got my card back within a week. Whole process took about 6 weeks though.Shows you how our federalies work...not well. I did see my old attorney to see if he had copies of the expulsion, but they only keep records like that for about 10 years, hence, he advised me to go to the courthouse.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:34:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Dv8xbox:

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
"deferred sentence" does not = no conviction

That car theft thing was probably a felony. If you do have a felony conviction on your record, you probably had better get rid of all your firearms. Felon in possession is a major bust these days.

If both the mentioned incidents were misdemenors, then there is no reason to deny you. Probably a case of mistaken identity. BTW, the reporting authority HAS to tell you exactly why you were denied. Find out from your FFL who did the check (state/federal) and contact them.




Both were considered felonies .. but does anyone know if a defered sentance is actually a guilty convictions?



You would not have been given ANY sentence absent a conviction.



That's my understanding.

You appear to be a CONVICTED FELON - the type of sentence, deferred or not, doesn't really change that.

As a conviced felon, you are not allowed to OWN firearms - it's not only a restriction on buying them through a dealer, but on their ownership altogether.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:35:02 AM EST
You have now admitted to being a convicted felon on a public internet board. Secure a lawyer, get rid of the guns you do have, and ask a mod to trash this thread.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:35:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:36:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Dv8xbox:

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
"deferred sentence" does not = no conviction

That car theft thing was probably a felony. If you do have a felony conviction on your record, you probably had better get rid of all your firearms. Felon in possession is a major bust these days.

If both the mentioned incidents were misdemenors, then there is no reason to deny you. Probably a case of mistaken identity. BTW, the reporting authority HAS to tell you exactly why you were denied. Find out from your FFL who did the check (state/federal) and contact them.




Both were considered felonies .. but does anyone know if a defered sentance is actually a guilty convictions?



You would not have been given ANY sentence absent a conviction.



That's my understanding.

You appear to be a CONVICTED FELON - the type of sentence, deferred or not, doesn't really change that.

As a conviced felon, you are not allowed to OWN firearms - it's not only a restriction on buying them through a dealer, but on their ownership altogether.




However, you CAN get a judge to restore your rights. I believe that they generally require 10 years on the "straight-and-narrow" after you have completed your sentence.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:37:33 AM EST
[Office Space] Watch out for your cornhole bud. [/Office Space]
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:38:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
[Office Space] Watch out for your cornhole bud. [/Office Space]



cold ... but funny.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:41:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 8:42:06 AM EST by norman74]
Deferred sentence is not the same thing as deferred prosecution.

I had a deferred prosecution, and and adjudication witheld (separate instances). I had to do community service and probation for a certain amount of time or the judge would reopen the case and find me guilty. I can (and have) buy guns legally and obtain a Florida concealed weapons permit.

You have a deferred sentence. Which means the judge found you guilty of a felony, and deferred your sentence based on some criteria (probation, community service, restitution, etc.) that you must fulfill in order not to go to jail.

Understand the difference? You are seeing hostile responses for several reasons:

1) You are a convicted felon in posession of illegal firearms. You are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

2) You are evidently too dense to realize that you have one or more felony convictions. People this dense give gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

3) You have posted all of the above on a public internet forum. By doing so you are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

4) You bought guns private party, and possibly risk the liberties of those that sold you the guns. By doing so you give gunowners and possibly arfcom members a bad name.

Notice a patern here?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:42:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:42:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
[Office Space] Watch out for your cornhole bud. [/Office Space]



Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:45:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Defferred and Suspended Sentences simply mean they decided NOT to throw your butt in jail but could have if they wanted to. It does NOT mean you weren't guilty of anything or convicted.

The problems you have now are part of the punishment of the conviction.

And again, nothing expires after 5, 10 or 25 years. You need to see a lawyer if you want your rights back.

Right now you are potentially looking at a triple felony.

1. Possession of firearms. You are not even allowed to hold one at a gun show let alone have "private sale" ones.

2. Perjury. I'm assuming you falsified the 4473.

3. Attempted purchase of a firearm by a convicted criminal.

Add these up against your prior and you could be in deep doo doo.




Ouch, good point.


Boy, you sure can get an education at ar15.com, that's for sure!!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:45:57 AM EST
Okay well this is all very informative but when I went to court the judge actually told that this is not a convictions if I succefully complete probation . The only reason I remember him asking that is because I was about to start a new job and asked the judge if this would matter to my employeer and he told me no because legally I can say I was NOT convicted of a felony .
Now I am not saying that I " know" what I am talking about just explaing what I was told.

Sorry if you all take offense to these types of post .... mods.. you can delete this post ...


If my appeal process goes bad then I will be selling my gun , till then it won't be in my posession .. so chill..
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:46:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Defferred and Suspended Sentences simply mean they decided NOT to throw your butt in jail but could have if they wanted to. It does NOT mean you weren't guilty of anything or convicted.

The problems you have now are part of the punishment of the conviction.

And again, nothing expires after 5, 10 or 25 years. You need to see a lawyer if you want your rights back.

Right now you are potentially looking at a triple felony.

1. Possession of firearms. You are not even allowed to hold one at a gun show let alone have "private sale" ones.

2. Perjury. I'm assuming you falsified the 4473.

3. Attempted purchase of a firearm by a convicted criminal.

Add these up against your prior and you could be in deep doo doo.



Plus the fact that the judge could decide to send you to the slam for your previous sentences as well. If you have guns, I recommend that you get rid of them legally and quickly! Felon in possession of a firearm is a 5 year felony! The NRA has teamed up with prosecutors all across the country to make sure that people convicted of this crime do the full 5 years!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:48:15 AM EST
My misdemeanor for getting caught with a joint took 10 years to go away. I didn't even get a fine, judge let me go on my own Recog(sp). He didn't figure me to be a hardcore criminal since that is my only arrest ever.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:50:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:53:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Deferred sentence is not the same thing as deferred prosecution.

I had a deferred prosecution, and and adjudication witheld (separate instances). I had to do community service and probation for a certain amount of time or the judge would reopen the case and find me guilty. I can (and have) buy guns legally and obtain a Florida concealed weapons permit.

You have a deferred sentence. Which means the judge found you guilty of a felony, and deferred your sentence based on some criteria (probation, community service, restitution, etc.) that you must fulfill in order not to go to jail.

Understand the difference? You are seeing hostile responses for several reasons:

1) You are a convicted felon in posession of illegal firearms. You are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

2) You are evidently too dense to realize that you have one or more felony convictions. People this dense give gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

3) You have posted all of the above on a public internet forum. By doing so you are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

4) You bought guns private party, and possibly risk the liberties of those that sold you the guns. By doing so you give gunowners and possibly arfcom members a bad name.

Notice a patern here?




The fucking guns are not Illegal, it's the possession of them that is illegal, stop saying that the guns are illegal!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:56:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
You are clearly too dangerous to be allowed the privledge of firearms ownership.





Privilege?

It's a right, he just needs to grow up some!



You got that right Motown_Steve!

It is a Right not a privilege...like driving or smoking.

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:59:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Deferred sentence is not the same thing as deferred prosecution.

I had a deferred prosecution, and and adjudication witheld (separate instances). I had to do community service and probation for a certain amount of time or the judge would reopen the case and find me guilty. I can (and have) buy guns legally and obtain a Florida concealed weapons permit.

You have a deferred sentence. Which means the judge found you guilty of a felony, and deferred your sentence based on some criteria (probation, community service, restitution, etc.) that you must fulfill in order not to go to jail.

Understand the difference? You are seeing hostile responses for several reasons:

1) You are a convicted felon in posession of illegal firearms. You are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

2) You are evidently too dense to realize that you have one or more felony convictions. People this dense give gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

3) You have posted all of the above on a public internet forum. By doing so you are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

4) You bought guns private party, and possibly risk the liberties of those that sold you the guns. By doing so you give gunowners and possibly arfcom members a bad name.

Notice a patern here?




The fucking guns are not Illegal, it's the possession of them that is illegal, stop saying that the guns are illegal!



Actually, if the gun is in posession of a felon, the gun becomes an illegal firearm. It would be confiscated and destroyed as an illegal weapon.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:02:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Deferred sentence is not the same thing as deferred prosecution.

I had a deferred prosecution, and and adjudication witheld (separate instances). I had to do community service and probation for a certain amount of time or the judge would reopen the case and find me guilty. I can (and have) buy guns legally and obtain a Florida concealed weapons permit.

You have a deferred sentence. Which means the judge found you guilty of a felony, and deferred your sentence based on some criteria (probation, community service, restitution, etc.) that you must fulfill in order not to go to jail.

Understand the difference? You are seeing hostile responses for several reasons:

1) You are a convicted felon in posession of illegal firearms. You are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

2) You are evidently too dense to realize that you have one or more felony convictions. People this dense give gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

3) You have posted all of the above on a public internet forum. By doing so you are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

4) You bought guns private party, and possibly risk the liberties of those that sold you the guns. By doing so you give gunowners and possibly arfcom members a bad name.

Notice a patern here?




The fucking guns are not Illegal, it's the possession of them that is illegal, stop saying that the guns are illegal!



Actually, if the gun is in posession of a felon, the gun becomes an illegal firearm. It would be confiscated and destroyed as an illegal weapon.



I think that this guy is a anyways. First he said that they were felonies, then he said they were not felonies. Which is it?

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:03:29 AM EST
first thing you need to do its get a background check on yourself and see what shows up. secong file an appeal with the fbi nics, get forms from your local ffl, 3rd and most important start contacting your elected official to ride the fbi's ass because their process is slow, expect to spend about 6 months on this.

good luck
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:08:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Deferred sentence is not the same thing as deferred prosecution.

I had a deferred prosecution, and and adjudication witheld (separate instances). I had to do community service and probation for a certain amount of time or the judge would reopen the case and find me guilty. I can (and have) buy guns legally and obtain a Florida concealed weapons permit.

You have a deferred sentence. Which means the judge found you guilty of a felony, and deferred your sentence based on some criteria (probation, community service, restitution, etc.) that you must fulfill in order not to go to jail.

Understand the difference? You are seeing hostile responses for several reasons:

1) You are a convicted felon in posession of illegal firearms. You are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

2) You are evidently too dense to realize that you have one or more felony convictions. People this dense give gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

3) You have posted all of the above on a public internet forum. By doing so you are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

4) You bought guns private party, and possibly risk the liberties of those that sold you the guns. By doing so you give gunowners and possibly arfcom members a bad name.

Notice a patern here?




The fucking guns are not Illegal, it's the possession of them that is illegal, stop saying that the guns are illegal!



Actually, if the gun is in posession of a felon, the gun becomes an illegal firearm. It would be confiscated and destroyed as an illegal weapon.



Hmm thats funny I know a guy who had his 92fs stolen and three days after that it was recovered by the police after a guy used it to stick up a strop n' rob. He got his gun back after the guy was tried and convicted of armed robbery. No destroying the gun. Being used in the commision of a crime does not make the gun illegal. There are spesific ways for a gun to become illegal. destroy the serial number is one. Configuring a post AWB rifle in a pre AWB configuration for non LE/military/.gov use, thats an illegal gun. But than according to some no gun is ever illegal because the 2A doesn't make acceptions for whats legal and whats not.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:10:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 9:10:21 AM EST by FatMan]

Originally Posted By norman74:
Deferred sentence is not the same thing as deferred prosecution.

I had a deferred prosecution, and and adjudication witheld (separate instances). I had to do community service and probation for a certain amount of time or the judge would reopen the case and find me guilty. I can (and have) buy guns legally and obtain a Florida concealed weapons permit.

You have a deferred sentence. Which means the judge found you guilty of a felony, and deferred your sentence based on some criteria (probation, community service, restitution, etc.) that you must fulfill in order not to go to jail.

Understand the difference? You are seeing hostile responses for several reasons:

1) You are a convicted felon in posession of illegal firearms. You are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

2) You are evidently too dense to realize that you have one or more felony convictions. People this dense give gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

3) You have posted all of the above on a public internet forum. By doing so you are giving gunowners and arfcom members a bad name.

4) You bought guns private party, and possibly risk the liberties of those that sold you the guns. By doing so you give gunowners and possibly arfcom members a bad name.

Notice a patern here?



Damn. Now I got a bad name here too?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:10:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 9:10:29 AM EST by DoubleFeed]
By request of Author.
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