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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/23/2005 8:55:40 AM EDT
http://ksn.com/news/stories/9051099.html

The Feds want you to speak in plain english, or no dinero.

Air time is valuable this seems counter intuitve to me.. Why not standardize 10 codes instead.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 10:07:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gutshot:
http://ksn.com/news/stories/9051099.html

The Feds want you to speak in plain english, or no dinero.

Air time is valuable this seems counter intuitve to me.. Why not standardize 10 codes instead.



I don't know........ 10 codes are no secret and they are no where near standard among agencies, even within the same State/County in some cases.

Seesm to me saying "Dispatch copy a traffic stop" is just about the same as saying "Dispatch, 10-65 a 10-50".

"Copy a DL check" vs "10-65 a 10-27, 10-29P"
"Message relayed" vs "10-39" to the "10-37"

The list goes on and on. I have always wanted to see 10 codes go by the wayside. Keep some codes and signals that are Officer Safety/Survival oriented, otherewise, I say good riddens to 10 codes vs plain text in routine situations/transmissions.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 10:16:30 AM EDT
Anybody have the actual cite for this requirement and deadline? I'm going to need more than just an out-of-state internet article to take this anywhere...
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 10:17:05 AM EDT
There, made it easy for everyone...

Fed calls for police talk in plain English

by Dana Hertneky
KSN News


WICHITA, Kansas, Aug 23, 2005 -- The federal government wants to change the way police and other emergency responders talk to each other in the interest of national safety.

Law enforcement and emergency personnel have been using 10-codes for years. But in case of a national emergency, the United States government wants everyone speaking the same language: plain English. If they don’t, the government is threatening to withhold federal funds.

About half of everything the Sedgwick County Dispatcher does is in code.

"We think it’s in our best interest, naturally, to comply with that but over and above that the clear text is probably a pretty good idea," said Randy Duncan, Sedgwick County Emergency Management.

Duncan said the codes often differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and can cause confusion when agencies try to communicate with each other. So Sedgwick County will start gradually switching over.

"It’s very simple -- you should say what you mean and mean what you say."

But Kansas Highway Patrol Trooper Ryan Tauer said it’s not that simple.

"When time is critical on the radio, you don’t want to have someone who is talking forever trying to give a synopsis of what’s going on when you can use just a 10-code," said Tauer.

In addition, Tauer points out that using code is sometimes necessary for security.

"Because the suspect we have with us doesn’t necessarily know we’re talking about them or what we’re talking about. It’s just an officer safety issue."

Still, with millions of dollars in emergency preparedness money at stake, the federal government will likely have the last word. They are calling for all departments to start talking in plain English by next September.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 10:48:02 AM EDT
It can be confusing at times. We monitor some radio traffic from a neighboring county in Kansas. Their sig 30 means clear ncic/local. Our sig 30 is traffic fatality.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 12:24:25 PM EDT
Sounds to me like they only want to suspend the use of 10 codes IN THE EVENT OF A NATIONAL EMERGENCY. I don't see where they are calling for the end of 10 codes period.

Non-issue .
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 12:42:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 12:55:00 PM EDT by lebrew]
fire/ems been doing that for some time now.
Refrence: National Incident Management System (expected compliance by Oct)
It works better to avoid confusion when incidents involve different jurisdictions with multiple departments to tell them in plain english what is going on and what the situation is.
I dont know if LE is affected the same way other emergency services are.

Lebrew
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 1:16:27 PM EDT
We went away with 10 codes beforeI was an officer...they still float around...10-4 , 10-8 etc but not many
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 1:50:17 PM EDT
The worst part about 10 codes is trying to communicate with other agencies.

When I worked in Chicago, trying to talk to ISP or a suburban guy on ISPERN could be a real challenge and it always turned into plain talk.

Just about all of them had different codes. Some used 10 codes, some used "signals" i.e. in one town, a Signal 6 was man with a gun. In another town, it was a trespass.

I don't worry about the badguys overhearing my radio traffic because I wear an earpiece, along with about 65% of my dept. Personally, I think earpieces should be manadatory for everyone.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 2:15:34 PM EDT
One Adam-12, 459 in progress at Worthington and Busch, code three. What's your 10-20? over.


How'd I do?
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 2:16:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lebrew:
fire/ems been doing that for some time now.
Refrence: National Incident Management System (expected compliance by Oct)
It works better to avoid confusion when incidents involve different jurisdictions with multiple departments to tell them in plain english what is going on and what the situation is.
I dont know if LE is affected the same way other emergency services are.

Lebrew




Yep........... And as for what the article said about an officer safety............. Whats wrong with coming up with Alpha codes or something for tricky situations.......

We use for a 'Dead Right There', say on a cardiac red or trauma red where family members are present, tension and emotions are high. If we can't do anything for 'em we call fire control and tell 'em 'Signal 7'.
If we need the SO or PD we say 'Call the other Agency' fire control then says 'message delivered' or 'other agency enroute'
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 3:00:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:46:27 PM EDT
The use of standard English is the best way for everyone to understand what is going on. Look at any of the large incidents (or even small ones) and communications was the biggest problem. What's the use of spending hundreds of millions to billions of dollars on communication systems so agencies can talk to each other if Firefighter Smith can't understand what Officer Jones is saying. If you don't use it everyday then you won't use it in a large scale multi agency event. When the stress is on you are going to continue to use what you always use. This is why the feds WILL withold money if agencies do not become NIMS (National Incident Management System) compliant. The foundation of NIMS is common terminology so everyone is on the same page when the big one happens.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 7:23:29 PM EDT
Funny thing is I find myself using them in regular convo even when I dont have to, especially with my cop buddies, non cops will look at us like WTF did yall just say? Kinda like speaking a 2nd language most dont understand. Sometimes I'll blurt it out to someone who isnt a cop on accident just from habit. On the other hand I still use a cheat sheet above my visor cause no matter how many times I've read it over and attempted to memorize it I'll just forget those rarely used ones.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 11:43:30 PM EDT
I am ok with codes as long as there is standardization. In our county code-11 means you are being held hostage. In a city in our county they started using cade-11, but for them it ment routine cover. The first night I heard that on their channel it took a lot of us my surprise when the other officers in the city did not do anything.


Link Posted: 8/23/2005 11:58:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By a320az:
There, made it easy for everyone...

Fed calls for police talk in plain EnglishLanguage that does not require anyone to put forth any effort

by Dana Hertneky
KSN News


WICHITA, Kansas, Aug 23, 2005 -- The federal government wants to change the way police and other emergency responders talk to each other in the interest of national safetymaking it easier for the latest highschool graduate to actually do their job.

Law enforcement and emergency personnel have been using 10-codes for years. But in case of a national emergency, the United States government some self important bureaucrat on a power trip wants everyone speaking the same language: plain English (que?). If they don’t, the government is threatening to withhold federal fundsthe tittie.

About half of everything the Sedgwick County Dispatcher does is in code.

"We think it’s in our best interest, naturally, to comply with that but over and above that the clear text is probably a pretty good idea,""Why don't they just kick us all in the balls" said Randy Duncan, Sedgwick County Emergency Management.

{SNIP}



There is a reason for the 10-codes, the message could get through fast when the signal sucks. Standardization makes more sense.....Next they are going to get rid of the phoenetic (Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot) system..and replace it with a more Multicultural, politically correct one.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:42:43 AM EDT
We got away from 10 codes some time ago in the valley for fire, especially since mutual and automatic aid was implemented in the valley. We are constantly running calls into Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert and plain english makes it much easier to communicate especially at high stress incidents.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:12:37 PM EDT
One county I am in all agencies use plain english.

The other county everyone uses plain english except the sherrifs.

Plain english is better IMO with the excpetion of prowords for special safety and sensitive situations.

Other people have to talk on the radio with poor signal. Airline Airline Pilots Pilots Talk Talk Double Double When When Signal Signal Sucks Sucks.

I can say "Say again" as fast as "10-9". If signal is really bad "Say again your last" so they'll hear enough.

Next thing you know they'll want the police to join the rest of the planet with their phonetic alphabet (alpha bravo instead of adam boy)

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 9:14:39 PM EDT
10 codes suck
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:54:17 AM EDT
We use clear speech for the most part. There are a hadful of "codes" and "signals," but there are maybe a dozen at most. It would be nice if they were all universal though. Like Code 4 in LAPD is "all clear" our Code 4 means "dead." Now I know we're 1500 miles apart so it's a dumb comparison, but it shows the vast difference in definitions.

On a related note, what do you guys think about the phonetic alphabet (Adam, Boy, Charles) that's used in LE, as opposed to the universal phonetic alphabet (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie) that's used by the rest of the English-speaking world. I know I still accidentally slip in unviersal phonetics from time to time.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:19:19 AM EDT
10-codes should die a much needed death. Most of the time, officers are using enough plain english that the 10-codes are superfelous anyway. Besides the example given of 10-50 meaning traffic stop, in my agency a 10-50 is a motor vehicle accident, 10-39 is a traffic stop.

I welcome the usage of plain language.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 10:23:04 AM EDT
Us MPs use plain english. We have a few duress codes, just in case. Ones standing for "Are you clear?" "This is going bad quick." etc etc etc.

The most cryptic phrase we have is Roger, Tango...."I copy, Thank You."
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:48:21 PM EDT
I'm a Fed...I wonder if they'll make us do the same? I don't wear an earpiece at work because the general public doesn't have a clue what a 10-100 is, or know what it means if the return on the NCIC/WALES check is 10-26. I do think that in the event of an emergency, though, it would be much better during cross departmental communication to use plain english.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:59:14 PM EDT
10-4.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:40:50 AM EDT
Yeah. I'd be happy to see the codes go. To many different systems, and you end up using clear speech if you're on LEERN or NLEC or something, and talking to other agenices. Not to mention, the way we use codes, it actually makes things longer. "signal 9" is Investigate Complaint, which is always followed by an description on what you have to go investigate anyways. So you get "singal 9 for a loud party and 123 Main Street" ... why not just skip the whole signal thing!!
dp
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:44:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 1:11:18 PM EDT by trippletap]
Wrong.

It has nothing to do with making it easier for idiots. Each department has it's own version of ten codes. When a large scale incident occurs and everyone starts communicating through the regional emergency network, it get's very confusing.

Just as an example, some of the codes my department uses are:

Arrived at scene = 10-23

Use caution = 10-0

Busy = 10-6

Back in service = 10-8

Telephone call = 10-21

Disturbance = 10-15

Complaintant = 10-17

Now, I am curious what some of the other members departments use for these....I bet there will be alot of differences.


Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By a320az:
There, made it easy for everyone...

Fed calls for police talk in plain EnglishLanguage that does not require anyone to put forth any effort

by Dana Hertneky
KSN News


WICHITA, Kansas, Aug 23, 2005 -- The federal government wants to change the way police and other emergency responders talk to each other in the interest of national safetymaking it easier for the latest highschool graduate to actually do their job.

Law enforcement and emergency personnel have been using 10-codes for years. But in case of a national emergency, the United States government some self important bureaucrat on a power trip wants everyone speaking the same language: plain English (que?). If they don’t, the government is threatening to withhold federal fundsthe tittie.

About half of everything the Sedgwick County Dispatcher does is in code.

"We think it’s in our best interest, naturally, to comply with that but over and above that the clear text is probably a pretty good idea,""Why don't they just kick us all in the balls" said Randy Duncan, Sedgwick County Emergency Management.

{SNIP}



There is a reason for the 10-codes, the message could get through fast when the signal sucks. Standardization makes more sense.....Next they are going to get rid of the phoenetic (Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot) system..and replace it with a more Multicultural, politically correct one.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:57:26 PM EDT
Until we got the Fed letter our codes were:

Arrived at scene = 10-97

Use caution = 10-39 (armed subject)

Busy = 10-6

Back in service = 10-8

Telephone call = 10-21

Disturbance = 10-87

Complaintant = none

Most of the officers have made a good transition except those who refuse to use any 10-code. This results in an affirmative response of " Ummm.....OK" instead of "10-4".
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:08:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Anybody have the actual cite for this requirement and deadline? I'm going to need more than just an out-of-state internet article to take this anywhere...



NIMS: plain language vs 10 codes

Question
Our 911 center, which recieves and dispatches all emergency and non-emergency calls has told us that we may not use 10-codes at all. I gather we must use plain language when using NIMS ICS. Is that correct?


Answer
According to the NIMS: "Incident communications are facilitated through the development and use of a common communications plan and interoperable communications processes and architectures. This integrated approach links the operational and support units of the various agencies involved and is necessary to maintain communications connectivity and discipline and enable common situational awareness and interaction."

The ability to communicate within ICS(Incident Command System) is absolutely critical and using standard or common terminology is essential to ensuring efficient, clear communication. ICS requires the use of common terminology; that is, the use of plain English. Common terminology in communications is necessary to support mutual aid and the infusion of new responders coming to an event so they will be able to communicate with one another. All exercises that responders participate in should feature plain English commands so they can function in a multi-jurisdiction environment. Field manuals and training should also be revised to reflect the plain English standard. That said, it is the intention of the NIMS Integration Center to take a practical common sense approach to this, and not cut off funding to a city because we hear of first responder who happens use ten codes.

This question/answer came up on the FEMA/NIMS FAQ page.


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:35:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By trippletap:
Wrong.

It has nothing to do with making it easier for idiots. Each department has it's own version of ten codes. When a large scale incident occurs and everyone starts communicating through the regional emergency network, it get's very confusing.

Just as an example, some of the codes my department uses are:

Arrived at scene = 10-23

Use caution = 10-0

Busy = 10-6

Back in service = 10-8

Telephone call = 10-21

Disturbance = 10-15

Complaintant = 10-17

Now, I am curious what some of the other members departments use for these....I bet there will be alot of differences.


Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By a320az:
There, made it easy for everyone...

Fed calls for police talk in plain EnglishLanguage that does not require anyone to put forth any effort

by Dana Hertneky
KSN News


WICHITA, Kansas, Aug 23, 2005 -- The federal government wants to change the way police and other emergency responders talk to each other in the interest of national safetymaking it easier for the latest highschool graduate to actually do their job.

Law enforcement and emergency personnel have been using 10-codes for years. But in case of a national emergency, the United States government some self important bureaucrat on a power trip wants everyone speaking the same language: plain English (que?). If they don’t, the government is threatening to withhold federal fundsthe tittie.

About half of everything the Sedgwick County Dispatcher does is in code.

"We think it’s in our best interest, naturally, to comply with that but over and above that the clear text is probably a pretty good idea,""Why don't they just kick us all in the balls" said Randy Duncan, Sedgwick County Emergency Management.

{SNIP}



There is a reason for the 10-codes, the message could get through fast when the signal sucks. Standardization makes more sense.....Next they are going to get rid of the phoenetic (Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot) system..and replace it with a more Multicultural, politically correct one.




Arrived at scene = 10-23 standby here. 10-97 is arrived at scene

use caution = 10-0 dont have

Busy = 10-6 same

Back in service = 10-8 same

Telephone call = 10-21 same

Disturbance = 10-15 is prisoner here disturbance is a signal 22

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:12:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tac45:

Originally Posted By trippletap:
Wrong.

It has nothing to do with making it easier for idiots. Each department has it's own version of ten codes. When a large scale incident occurs and everyone starts communicating through the regional emergency network, it get's very confusing.

Just as an example, some of the codes my department uses are:

Arrived at scene = 10-23

Use caution = 10-0

Busy = 10-6

Back in service = 10-8

Telephone call = 10-21

Disturbance = 10-15

Complaintant = 10-17

Now, I am curious what some of the other members departments use for these....I bet there will be alot of differences.


Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By a320az:
There, made it easy for everyone... hLanguage that does not require anyone to put forth any effort

by Dana Hertneky
KSN News


WICHITA, Kansas, Aug 23, 2005 -- The federal government wants to change the way police and other emergency responders talk to each other in the interest of national safetymaking it easier for the latest highschool graduate to actually do their job.

Law enforcement and emergency personnel have been using 10-codes for years. But in case of a national emergency, the United States government some self important bureaucrat on a power trip wants everyone speaking the same language: plain English (que?). If they don’t, the government is threatening to withhold federal fundsthe tittie.

About half of everything the Sedgwick County Dispatcher does is in code.

"We think it’s in our best interest, naturally, to comply with that but over and above that the clear text is probably a pretty good idea,""Why don't they just kick us all in the balls" said Randy Duncan, Sedgwick County Emergency Management.

{SNIP}



There is a reason for the 10-codes, the message could get through fast when the signal sucks. Standardization makes more sense.....Next they are going to get rid of the phoenetic (Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot) system..and replace it with a more Multicultural, politically correct one.




Arrived at scene = 10-23 standby here. 10-97 is arrived at scene

use caution = 10-0 dont have

Busy = 10-6 same

Back in service = 10-8 same

Telephone call = 10-21 same

Disturbance = 10-15 is prisoner here disturbance is a signal 22





About the same.

Arrived at scene = 10-23

Busy = 10-6

Back in service = 10-8

Telephone call = 10-21

Need to take a shit = 10-200

FEMA = Federal Government = ALL FUCKED UP


Link Posted: 9/9/2005 5:22:59 AM EDT
There's only one reason why 10-codes might be a good idea. For example, at our PD 10-23 means what is your status, 10-25 means "I'm fine, don't ask again," while 10-24 means "things are or are getting ugly, keep checking back". At least 95% of the people you deal with have no idea what "10-24" is going to mean, but if you go over the radio saying in plain english, "yeah I might need some backup here soon," that's giving out info I'd rather the person I'm dealing with doesn't know.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:03:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
The worst part about 10 codes is trying to communicate with other agencies.

When I worked in Chicago, trying to talk to ISP or a suburban guy on ISPERN could be a real challenge and it always turned into plain talk.

Just about all of them had different codes. Some used 10 codes, some used "signals" i.e. in one town, a Signal 6 was man with a gun. In another town, it was a trespass.

I don't worry about the badguys overhearing my radio traffic because I wear an earpiece, along with about 65% of my dept. Personally, I think earpieces should be manadatory for everyone.


Sheep



Ten Codes are not permitted on ISPERN. Never have been.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 2:56:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Caiman_BCSO:
I am ok with codes as long as there is standardization. In our county code-11 means you are being held hostage. In a city in our county they started using cade-11, but for them it ment routine cover. The first night I heard that on their channel it took a lot of us my surprise when the other officers in the city did not do anything.





"Code 11" here means "personal reason", usually translated "bathroom break". I don't know if anyone has ever screamed it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 7:26:00 PM EDT
We have four different PD's working off our dispatch center. One of them has jumped all over this and ordered officers to do away with 10 codes.
Even though the date for compliance is well in the future.
Poor bastichs, they start to do a 10 code then revert to plain talk.
It is funny in a painful way to hear.

Hey FEMA....."Big ass hurricane coming, be prepared" ...over

Think it would have made a differance?

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 2:58:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmoth:
10-codes should die a much needed death. Most of the time, officers are using enough plain english that the 10-codes are superfelous anyway. Besides the example given of 10-50 meaning traffic stop, in my agency a 10-50 is a motor vehicle accident, 10-39 is a traffic stop.

I welcome the usage of plain language.



+1
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:30:44 PM EDT
We use plain language and it seems to work fine except for the long winded officers that cant seem to remember to say "unit# Report Avail" or "unit# On Scene".... Instead they say "unit#...I spoke with the reporter and this is a civil matter between her and her daughter and I advised her on the procedures of getting her removed from the home as well as how to file a civil suit. I also spoke with the neighbor and took a report reference the ongoing harrasment problems between the two neighbors....report...avail...show me enroute to my meal...

My response.....Clear

And as far as Emergency traffic or Officer Safety information that we dont want the public or better yet the media to here we send by MCT.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:38:43 PM EDT
Just in case...
that wasnt a bashing of LEO I was just venting a little.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 1:22:11 AM EDT
MCT? What's an MCT? I'm kidding but my podunk PD has no such luxury.

You are correct on long-winded traffic. If my dispatchers and LTs didn't demand a full disposition of the call over the radio I'd barely say anything.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 1:38:31 AM EDT
I worked dispatch and we used about 10 of our 100 10 codes, and used plain english the rest of the time. An example for a 10 code we would use would be sending a deputy to a rape. We didn't want to say the name or the address and then say rape. Other than that it was just 10-4, 96,97, and 98.
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