i may catch alot of flack for this, but i think it needs to be said....so here goes....    

Good guys huh...
just ask yourself who are the good guys.  us?  them?  was this an unprovoked attack on america?  did the arab terrorist kill themselves and all those other people for no other reason but insanity?  why do they hate us so much? why do we hate them?  the mere mention of war makes president bushes popularity skyrocket.  the economy is in a slump.  the public is so ready for blood no one is asking a very important question, why?  i can give you three (of many) reasons the terrorist attacks took place last week:

1)sport utility vehicles
2)5% of the world population using 50% of the worlds resources.
3)israel

in giving these examples i am in NO WAY condoning what took place at the world trade center and the pentagon, it was an act of lunacy.  just as any attack on any human being is an act of lunacy.  just as going to war is an act of lunacy.

it is time for the american people to wake up and realize that there are others on this earth besides ourselves.  our constant and gross waste of all resources can not be sustained or tollerated.  the media has most people brainwashed into stepping right in line with the "american" lifestyle, just check out the constant advertisments and lack of truth on your television sets.  "new bigger v8, cleaner whiter teeth, best ever, 4.9%apr, buy now pay later."  they are selling lies, and your buying.  american greed is growing at a geometric rate.
it is also time to wash our hands of isreal, and cease to support the attrocities they commit with billions of dollars in federal aid.

take a good hard look at where you are standing.  we as humans are neck deep in a horrible situation that has been created by the politians, the media, and religious fanatics.  and the ONLY possible outcome now is more innocent people will die.(u.s. troops, u.s. civillians, arab civillians)  but dont you worry because the governments of the world assure you that war is good, and necessary, we cant just talk, its too complex, dont you know?
who got us into this mess?  the career politicans, generals, advertisers, the religous fanatics, and most likely you too.

i love america,
i wish i knew where america went,
i wish i lived there.

"no escape from the mass mind rape.  play it again jack, and then rewind the tape.  and play it again and again until your mind is locked in."

13thMonkey

ps, if you dont agree with me, im sorry you bought all the shit they are selling you.

No.  That's just so ridiculous it doesn't even need refutation.



These people are not environmentalists nor WTO protestors.  They don't give a shit about that.



No, not really in this case.
Bin Laden only VERY recently started supporting the cause of the Palestinians.  His cause is and has always been to purify the Muslim world of Western influence.  It isn't our aid to Israel he despises, it's our very existence.  It's our McDonald's, our fashions, our MTV.
If you actually believe that crap, I am sorry you bought the line the pointy-headed tinfoil hat crowd has sold you.

keep it comming.......

oh and by the way,  5% of the world population using 50% of the world resources is a very big problem.......

13thMonkey

Sounds more like your political agenda to me.

Bin Laden and company are true fanatics that only Tyler Durden would understand.

Two words... [b]Dumb Ass[/b]

It may be a big problem to you, but I really do not think they give a shit.


Aviator  [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]

i said they are true fanitics, to this there is no doubt.  

13thMonkey

Aviator, to correct you, 5% of the worlds population using 50% of the worlds resources is exactly why they give a shit.

13thMonkey

ps the "dumbass" comment was cute.

Then you just answered your own question as to why they did it. Fanatics, plain and simple. Don't try and drag SUVs and Resource use and Isreal into this.


Aviator  [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]

so are you fanatical enough to think the lifestyle you, and millions others live everyday has no effect on the world as a whole?
wake up.

13thMonkey

to clear things up, this is not an enviromental issue, bin ladens flunkies are not eco-terrorists.  it is an issue of all out greed, that most are too blind to see....
13thMonkey

Dude, this is a damn poor time and damn poor example for trying to push your tree hugging, anachist, socialist agenda. Give it up.


Aviator  [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]

I'm done with this thread.

aviator, im glad you are an "american".

13thMonkey

That's about it. U.S. military presence in the Muslim World, especially in Bin Laden's home Country of Saudi Arabia, really chaps his ass. We are seen as the ultimate evil of the world. I saw an old interview with Bin laden, and he stated that he saw no distinction between Soldiers and civilians. I guess that is pretty obvious. He also said that the American Military was weak, in that it only fights in "easy" wars. His view is that the American soldier does not have the stomach for long, bloody conflicts. Looks like were going find out.

i bet it chaps his ass, did it not chap yours when they made a military presence here?  but thats not the point.  the point is no one has acknowleged any of my valid points or intelligently refuted anything i have said.  thats rather scary.  so go ahead, speak up, i wont tell on you.

13thMonkey

That's because posts that aren't intelligent in the first place can't be refuted intelligently.

Ditto on aviator's dumbass comment.

another one passes the buck.  

13thMonkey

Not to Bin Laden.  It is NOT the motive behind this attack, no matter what your friends at the RATM board think.

americas greed and contempt in dealing with all other countries not his concern?....really, when did you speak to him last?

13thMonkey

BTW, 13 monkeys was one of the worst movies I've seen in my life. Two hours down the drain.

jeez that sure makes me feel wrong.....

13thMonkey

Hey , 13th chimp boy, if you don't like it  here go buy a nice piece of property in Afghanistan or Pakistan & walk your talk!!

This notion that America is a big evil country that uses up all the resources at the rest of the world's expense is BS.
 What about China, Saudi Arabia, the entire continent of Europe or Japan? Just because a given society is more technologicly advanced & has a thriving free market economy doesn't make it evil. The USA has bailed out many other countries over the last 80yrs both financially & militarily!

Who funds that socialist oligarchy of self-serving "diplomats" called the U.N.  ???
 Where does the Red Cross derive most of it's funds?
 What country spends more than the USA on foreign aid annually ???????
 What country contributes most to the IMF & the World Bank??
 AND what country usually leads the charge to forgive the billions of dollars of bad debt that third world contries default on at an alarming rate??? (because most third world countries like those in Africa can't stop having civil wars & killing themselves left & right while the worthless elected officials pilfer the national treasury before bailing for asylum somehwhere!)

 AND what country usually pays for all that kind of SHIT with money & blood all the friggin time????????

Why don't you move to France of some nice little socialist country where you can sit on your ass smoking cigarettes & drinking wine while whining about your small government stipend!!

p.s.  if I drive a Corvette instead of a SUV
      does that make me a better person?
      It still sucks gas when my foot hits
      the firewall!

I would say that you are a retard, however that would be insensitive to the retarded.

We have been attacked, it is now the time for unity.  Don't be an apologist for the terrorists.  And don't rationalize.  'nuff said.

did you mean "fanatics" ?

When did YOU speak to him last????

Monkey, you have yet to make a valid point for anyone here to refute.

OK chimp boy,

"SUV's " is a valid point???  That's a little vague isn't it??

 Are you implying that the USofA is too dependent on OIL ??
 What developed country isn't ??
What do autos,planes,trains,ships,heavy machinery & many power plants rely on to
fuel their engines/turbines?
  Name a developed country that isn't primarily dependent on fossil fuels??
Why should the USA be singled out for this sin?

I really don't think Bin Ladan gives two shits about the enviroment or conspicuos consuption of natural resources! What about the Saudi's & Kuwait & United Arab Emirates, Oman etc. ???
All Islamic Monarchy's filthy rich from OIL & driving around in gold plated Rolls Royces.
Maybe you & your enviro-buddies do but that really isn't a VALID ISSUE then is it?
Your just trying to grind your philosopical axe aren't you?
 Stop projecting your issues on to your hero!

5% of the population consuming 50% of the resources?

 I could basicly say see above! Again you obviously have a philosopical axe to grind on this concept BUT what it has to do with Bin Laden & the killing of 5000+ innocent people is beyond me!
 Your concern about man (& I guess western civiliaztion) using a disproportionate share
of the Earth's resources is an old one BUT your really reaching here trying to connect that with Bin Laden & radical Islamic Fundamentalists!

Israel, you finally have a indresct Valid issue but again a vague one!

So most Islamic states aren't friends of Israel but some moderate ones do have peace agreements with the state of Israel.
 The Islamic's even fight amongst themselves!!
Iran is NO friend of Bin Laden becuase there is a big difference between the Sunni's & Shi'as.
Why do you think Iran & Iraq fought for 10yrs?

The Saudi's & Egypt can't stand Bin Laden becuase he is a radical fundmentalist opposed to ANY western influence & opposed to the existing monarchys that control oil & the government of Egypt.(he subsidizes the Egyptian Jihad)
 The Saudi govenrment froze all his assets in 96'or98' but he still gets millions from the estate of his now deceased father's business that was built with Saudi oil money.  Bin Laden is a trust-fund terrorist!!

Bin Laden wants an entire Arabian peninsula of fundamentalist Islamic states (like Yemen & Sudan)& he supports other guerilla grups in countries like Indonesia & the Phillipines that are trying to over throw those governments.

So 13th chimp boy what are you?
An eco-anarchist who worships Allah ??

You a anti-technology Ted Kaczynski disciple?

If that's the case turn off your evil PC and crawl back into your eco-cave because your "valid points" aren't very valid!!!

Hey 13thMonkey where'd you go??

No fun to debate all by myself!  [:)]

He'll be back...after all, he's proved he's a MASTERdeBATER...

LOL!!