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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/3/2005 1:53:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 2:15:38 AM EDT by twonami]
damn, they are getting burnt out and shot at. A few broke down and a few are really pissed at their fellow officers that turned in their badges
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:58:37 AM EDT
Man. That's a terrible situation.

You hear the one cop? He said something like:

"And to those coward cops out there who just deserted, remember that you swore to protect and serve these people. Where's your loyalty to your community?"

And that video of the night situation with the gunshots and chemical plant explosion looked eerily like the Iraq warzone looks at night.

What a freaking mess.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:01:56 AM EDT
sad, just damn sad
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:05:57 AM EDT
think it's safe to say we now know who the honest cops are in NO, as well as who the dishonest ones are.

I felt really sorry for that one young looking cop who was giving a message to his wife. He just kept saying "I love you" and broke down into tears. It seemed he thought he wasn't going to make it out of there alive, but was staying anyway.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:08:34 AM EDT
LEO bashers on this board needed to see the honest ones and not the Wal-Mart shoe looters
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:17:22 AM EDT
Gut check comes to mind. What pisses me off is that we have created a society where this is acceptable and they will not pay for letting others die.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:18:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 2:20:32 AM EDT by twonami]

Louisiana State Police officers stop a car in downtown New Orleans, Friday, Sept. 2, 2005. The occupants of the car were searched and then let go.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:25:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
think it's safe to say we now know who the honest cops are in NO, as well as who the dishonest ones are.

I felt really sorry for that one young looking cop who was giving a message to his wife. He just kept saying "I love you" and broke down into tears. It seemed he thought he wasn't going to make it out of there alive, but was staying anyway.



I agree and while i feel for the young cop and his family. he is doing the right thing. if those before us did not have the balls to do what needed to be done, we would not be here.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:28:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/HURRICANE_KATRINA.sff_TXHOU115_20050902221840.jpg
Louisiana State Police officers stop a car in downtown New Orleans, Friday, Sept. 2, 2005. The occupants of the car were searched and then let go.


What's up with the officer canting his rifle?

Please tell me it's something other than trying to look "gangsta."
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:29:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Louisiana State Police officers stop a car in downtown New Orleans, Friday, Sept. 2, 2005. The occupants of the car were searched and then let go.

It's about time something like that happens.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 3:59:28 AM EDT
Why is it everythime a LEO has a weapon canted its because they want to look "gansta"?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:02:06 AM EDT
I guess NO would have no problem deputizing me and let me volunteer with the LEOs.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:15:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Man. That's a terrible situation.

You hear the one cop? He said something like:

"And to those coward cops out there who just deserted, remember that you swore to protect and serve these people. Where's your loyalty to your community?"




The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:17:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By twonami:
ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/HURRICANE_KATRINA.sff_TXHOU115_20050902221840.jpg
Louisiana State Police officers stop a car in downtown New Orleans, Friday, Sept. 2, 2005. The occupants of the car were searched and then let go.


What's up with the officer canting his rifle?

Please tell me it's something other than trying to look "gangsta."

Optics sit high enough above the bore axis that at very close range the sights are nearly worhtless. By canting the rifle he can simply look down the brl like you do when shooting a bead sighted shotgun.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:19:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By w4klr:
I guess NO would have no problem deputizing me and let me volunteer with the LEOs.



Okay. What will you do with the looters you arrest? what jail will you book them into? Where will you file your reports? Who will proscute the cases, in what courthouse and before which judge? Which public defendeer will repreasent them?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:20:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Man. That's a terrible situation.

You hear the one cop? He said something like:

"And to those coward cops out there who just deserted, remember that you swore to protect and serve these people. Where's your loyalty to your community?"




The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."



Yeah. Makes me wish the cops that ran were eligible for UCMJ. God bless those that are still trying.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:22:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 4:23:01 AM EDT by Oslow]
Okay. What will you do with the looters you arrest? what jail will you book them into? Where will you file your reports? Who will proscute the cases, in what courthouse and before which judge? Which public defendeer will repreasent them?

Arrest?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:35:46 AM EDT
why are the people in the car being drown down upon?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:56:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."


That's funny. The NG doesn't seem to be having the same problem.

I also find it strange that while some in the NOPD are running away there are hundreds of officers volunteering to go in. Looks like those good men, and the remaining good men on the NOPD, don't quite see it your way.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:07:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 5:09:18 AM EDT by SgtKiwi]
They did OK in the late 1800's without paperwork and such. That's all it is there now. The way I see it. An eye for an eye.

You rape or kill someone, you die... you steal, you get to meet Mr. ASP. You shoot at someone, you get shot. If there are no prosecuters, judges, or jails, I guess you have to improvise. You wouldn't have to shoot too many rapists before people would stop raping.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:10:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By twonami:
ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/HURRICANE_KATRINA.sff_TXHOU115_20050902221840.jpg
Louisiana State Police officers stop a car in downtown New Orleans, Friday, Sept. 2, 2005. The occupants of the car were searched and then let go.


What's up with the officer canting his rifle?

Please tell me it's something other than trying to look "gangsta."



maybe the photo caught the gun as he was bringing it up - it is not like he was psoing for the camera, probably an action shot....
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:11:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RED_5:
why are the people in the car being drown down upon?



maybe because everyone should have evacuated by now, and they are assuming that the occupants probably stole the car
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:33:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Oslow:
Okay. What will you do with the looters you arrest? what jail will you book them into? Where will you file your reports? Who will proscute the cases, in what courthouse and before which judge? Which public defendeer will repreasent them?

Arrest?



WOW

+1 though
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:15:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."


That's funny. The NG doesn't seem to be having the same problem.




The NG has an entirely different role. They are not arresting people, jailing them, and bringing them to trial in civilian courts.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:26:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."


That's funny. The NG doesn't seem to be having the same problem.




The NG has an entirely different role. They are not arresting people, jailing them, and bringing them to trial in civilian courts.


That's the point isn't it. The NOPD failed to adapt to the realities of the situation. First they did not protect the people in emergency shelters. Second, the joined and then tried to stop the looting. They did not have a plan for a disaster. They decided they could do nothing because they didn't have courts for the first two days and the situation degenerated into an arms race. It didn't degenerate into an arms race to protect property; it was to protect lives.

At the point where you have to evacuate 500,000 people from a city who cares about someone trying to walk off with a big screen TV? As I said before, they aren't going far with it. I hate looters, but come on. The city is flooding and they're worried about someone taking Nikes?

The point is in a natural disaster like this the police definitely have a role. A very crucial role mainly in keeping order until the NG can arrive with more resources. It was insanity to me to watch the NOPD trying to protect property when they have 1500 people and lives were at stake.

Was it the individual officers' fault? Hell no. The city leadership failed the department. They failed to define the role in a post disaster situation. They failed to communicate and IMO they deployed their resources in a horrible fashion. Leaving the Convention Center after 7:00pm? Stupid deployment decision.

It's called prioritization. You may not be able to do everything you could do under normal circumstances, but there are still things that can be done and should be done. NOPD didn't do that.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:37:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."


That's funny. The NG doesn't seem to be having the same problem.




The NG has an entirely different role. They are not arresting people, jailing them, and bringing them to trial in civilian courts.


That's the point isn't it. The NOPD failed to adapt to the realities of the situation. First they did not protect the people in emergency shelters. Second, the joined and then tried to stop the looting. They did not have a plan for a disaster. They decided they could do nothing because they didn't have courts for the first two days and the situation degenerated into an arms race. It didn't degenerate into an arms race to protect property; it was to protect lives.

At the point where you have to evacuate 500,000 people from a city who cares about someone trying to walk off with a big screen TV? As I said before, they aren't going far with it. I hate looters, but come on. The city is flooding and they're worried about someone taking Nikes?



So you are saying NOPD should evolve into a sort of untrained EMS agency in a situation like this? Instead of protecting lives and property by enforceing the laws of the state of LA, they should becoe generic red cross type workers? You can certainly make a strong arguement for that type of response, but its something that should be trained and rehearsed prior. State law should also clearly spell out that authority/responsibilty to prevent the officers who act in good faith from being sued/prosecuted for violations of established civil & criminal process.

For everyone saying the police should just ignore the constitutional protections the citizens of NOLA have and start shooting looters and such. It sounds like good fun but the resulting federal civil rights charges brought by the guys in DC who still have plenty of jail space, courts, and prosecutors wont be.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:58:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
So you are saying NOPD should evolve into a sort of untrained EMS agency in a situation like this? Instead of protecting lives and property by enforceing the laws of the state of LA, they should becoe generic red cross type workers?


Not quite, but as you pointed out there are no courts or court dates for the forseeable future. The jails are flooded. The police are still needed to maintain order as best as they can under the circumstances. Property crimes, IMO, aren't important. People being raped in an evacuation shelter or people being killed in a shelter, if it did happen(not sure I believe all the reports) should have been dealt with.
Again safety and the preservation of life should have been the priorities.


You can certainly make a strong arguement for that type of response, but its something that should be trained and rehearsed prior. State law should also clearly spell out that authority/responsibilty to prevent the officers who act in good faith from being sued/prosecuted for violations of established civil & criminal process.


Agreed. IMO the entire city of NO screwed the pooch. Not the individual officer's fault, but the Mayor and the Police Chief failed to communicate their priorities to the force. They also failed to realize a couple hundred thousand people spread out over a flooded city cannot be controlled by 1500 officers. They needed to deploy and stay at potential problem areas, ie hospitals and evacuation centers.

As for your legislation, doesn't declaring an area a disaster area suspend standard criminal/civil procedures? I guess it depends on the state/fed gov't.


For everyone saying the police should just ignore the constitutional protections the citizens of NOLA have and start shooting looters and such. It sounds like good fun but the resulting federal civil rights charges brought by the guys in DC who still have plenty of jail space, courts, and prosecutors wont be.


For the record, I never said the cops should shoot looters. If people want to defend their property, fine. But the cops shouldn't worry about property under these circumstances.

In previous posts you mentioned the entire city of NO is gone. That's not quite true. The City of Long Beach, MS is gone. Totally gone. I don't recall seeing one standing building in that town, hopefully there are some. Other cities in MS, Gulfport, Biloxi, Bay St. Louis, Waveland, Ocean Springs(did anyone find the mayor of OS?) were also heavily damaged. However, we are not hearing the same stories from MS. IMO it is because the governor and mayor failed to provide leadership.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:43:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Man. That's a terrible situation.

You hear the one cop? He said something like:

"And to those coward cops out there who just deserted, remember that you swore to protect and serve these people. Where's your loyalty to your community?"




The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."



You of all people should know that LE is not simply about punishing people. Cops are still needed in the city to get people to shelter, and protect rexcue workers. And I would be very surprised if no one has strung a bunch of razor wire in a square and started throwing criminals into it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:47:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By twonami:
ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/HURRICANE_KATRINA.sff_TXHOU115_20050902221840.jpg
Louisiana State Police officers stop a car in downtown New Orleans, Friday, Sept. 2, 2005. The occupants of the car were searched and then let go.


What's up with the officer canting his rifle?

Please tell me it's something other than trying to look "gangsta."

Optics sit high enough above the bore axis that at very close range the sights are nearly worhtless. By canting the rifle he can simply look down the brl like you do when shooting a bead sighted shotgun.


+1 also it is alot esier to see into the car without the rifles gear blocking your vision
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:53:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RED_5:
why are the people in the car being drown down upon?



Brand new 'lac with no tags and no temp tags...

Why do you think?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:15:30 PM EDT


From what I have read:

www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/




Now this is something that requires tact, and I do not have much experience with reporting, but I think the world needs to know how overwhelmed the police are out here: I have reports from 3 different police sources that 2 police officers have committed suicide. Out of respect for their families, I will not name them or go into detail. Truly tragic how bad things are. I sincerely hope I did the right thing in reporting this.




We need to give some of these guys a break. It is very easy for all of us to sit back and say they should do this or do that. Now, give that, some of the NO PD need to be arrested themselves for looting and other crimes.


Bigfeet
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:30:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RED_5:
why are the people in the car being drown down upon?




There's a carwash behind the cameraman.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:38:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By RED_5:
why are the people in the car being drown down upon?




There's a carwash behind the cameraman.



my first guess it that there was a dog in the car.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:44:00 PM EDT


Typical LEO's.....profiling. Aren't most of the people they're stopping black?



Link Posted: 9/3/2005 3:46:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 3:49:17 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Man. That's a terrible situation.

You hear the one cop? He said something like:

"And to those coward cops out there who just deserted, remember that you swore to protect and serve these people. Where's your loyalty to your community?"




The city of New Orleans has ceased to exist. The community you speak of is now headed to the astrodome. Perhaps the NOPD should be reassigned thee. there is nothing left worth protecting in NOLA. The basic tools LE needs to function; Courts, judges, prosecutors, jails are no longer found in NOLA.

Did you watch the footage of the cops dealing with looters like the wack a mole game? Any cop remaining in NOLA has only two options. one is summary exicution of anyone found breaking the law. ther other is "stop or I'll yell stop again."



You of all people should know that LE is not simply about punishing people. Cops are still needed in the city to get people to shelter, and protect rexcue workers.



How do cops protect rescue workers? By the rule of law, the implied threat of jail or lawfull violence in response to violations of the laws of the state of New Orleans. When the BG's know there are no jails, prosecutors, juges or courts they know those threats are impotent posturing.


And I would be very surprised if no one has strung a bunch of razor wire in a square and started throwing criminals into it.



in my state you have 72 hours to arraign suspects. what judge is going to do the arraignments in your razor wire jail? If they are not arraigned in time then the guards at your razor wire facility have violated the suspects federal civil rights of due process.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 3:57:58 PM EDT
AR15fan, I guess you missed the part where the writ of habeus corpus was suspended in LA.

So if a cop doesn't have a jail to lock someone in he should sit by while people get killed? Thats really logical.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:00:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By w4klr:
I guess NO would have no problem deputizing me and let me volunteer with the LEOs.



Wrong. Bureaucracy and little dick syndrome abounds down there.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:27:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
The city is flooding and they're worried about someone taking Nikes?



Yes, I fail to understand the "Save the Nikes" campaign while people are being raped, robbed, killed, and dying from [lack of] medical attention in the Convention Center and elsewhere in the city. Some of the most mis-placed priorities I have ever seen.
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