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Posted: 9/11/2004 8:28:08 PM EST
I am gonna laugh in the face of the $100 Glock mag gougers, "Pre-Ban" CETME fuckers and other misc posers who have tried to make a fortune ripping the ill-informed...
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:29:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:47:58 PM EST
I may seriously try to buy a Norinco or similar AK underfolder at a reasonable price and see how far I get. Hell, someone may want to off load something like that...?
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:49:08 PM EST
I might have to waste $5 and head to the next gun show in the area. If for nothing else than to look at magazine prices.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:57:14 PM EST
Goin' to one in my area tomorrow to see what fun I can have. Hope I catch some gouger sellin' to an ill-informed buyer. Might be fun to tell the poor sap that the gun he is trying to buy will be worth half or even less than half what he's going to have to pay in a day. The reaction might be interesting.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:58:30 PM EST
I love pissing off people at gunshows that are either ignorant about products or have rediculus prices. I went over to a guy that had a AR with a 16" barrel, flattop, collapable stock for $3000. I said since the AWB was ending I'd give him $500.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:21:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
I said since the AWB was ending I'd give him $500.



And He said. What?
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:24:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
I said since the AWB was ending I'd give him $500.



...You just don't end the story there. Don't tell us something this funny and just end it without his response.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:26:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:30:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
I said since the AWB was ending I'd give him $500.



...You just don't end the story there. Don't tell us something this funny and just end it without his response.




yeah dude you cant do that finish the dang story
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:30:38 PM EST
Were going to hear a lot of "these are collectables"
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:31:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:33:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:34:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By FiveO:
I am gonna laugh in the face of the $100 Glock mag gougers, "Pre-Ban" CETME fuckers and other misc posers who have tried to make a fortune ripping the ill-informed...




Are you going to the Tallahassee show? I'll be there tomorrow, perhaps we can meet.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:36:51 PM EST
i hate these assholes. i had a guy a few weeks ago tell me his price was non was nonnegotiable for a for a norinco marked wooden stock uzi knock-off. he would not admit that the gun was not made in isreal by uzi. he gave me a schpeal a/b how uzi made all of these guns as a subcontractor. thats why $2300 was nonnegotiable, plus the thing looked like it had been used as a sledge hammer. after a brief arguement i just laughed at him and told him good luck.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:38:44 PM EST
My brother and I are heading to the EXPO show tomorrow afternoon to pick-up some small parts for our builds tomorrow night.

My bro' wanted to go today but I convinced him it would be ALOT more fun being there just HOURS before the sunset

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:44:56 PM EST
Look for the walk ins if its allowed in your state. Youmay be able to find a good deal hanging on someones shoulder. Keep messing with the crooked dealers though. You shoud type up soon "End of the AWB' fliers to sneak onto those guys tables.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 11:05:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/11/2004 11:17:18 PM EST by FiveO]
SA, sorry if I struck a nerve. I harbor no ill will toward anyone trying to make a fair buck BUT like I know there are bad cops, you surely know there are bad gun dealers. They are the object of my scorn.

As far as the CETME goes, I have never seen a real one, just the monstroities you mention being pawned off as "pre ban."

Regarding the mags; market value/price gouging. You use your term, I'll use mine.

As far as the AK goes, I meant that if someone were willing to sell it at a normal price as opposed to $1,500 or some such shit, ya know?

You are as touchy about your fellow gun dealers as I am about my fellow LEOs so I can relate to your defensiveness I guess...

Oh, going to the Mobile show, BTW.

Link Posted: 9/11/2004 11:17:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By parshooter:

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
I said since the AWB was ending I'd give him $500.



And He said. What?



and then he found 5 dollars.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:00:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:33:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By madman_kirk:

Originally Posted By FiveO:
I may seriously try to buy a Norinco or similar AK underfolder at a reasonable price and see how far I get. Hell, someone may want to off load something like that...?

Norinco and other imported firearms will still be banned . Imported firearms are covered in the '89 ban, not the '94 ban. mmk



Yep. I mean a "Pre import ban." Someone will do a "US part count" underfolder so the value of a true all forign underfolder should become more reasonable.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:57:19 AM EST
I have noticed that the current cost for NIW preban 30rnd M16 mags is actually less than the price listed on most the preorders for new production, formerly "LEO" M16 mags.

so in the case of M16 mags, I do not expect the sunset to result in a significant price decrease.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:04:56 AM EST
I went with Winemaster to a gunshow last week and we were just laughing at the magazine prices. A lot of vendors are going to take some heavy hits in the coming years.

But there will always be a sucker out there willing to pay the price.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:44:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:45:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:20:28 AM EST
last show,,
6 norinco sks para, with folders 400$ a pop...
""pre-ban"" used ..real HK 91/g3 alloys and steel 20rnd mags 10-30$
alot of Ar goodies floating around,, to the point that its flooded the shows.

dont worry SA there is one dealer at the southern knife and gunshow that has a MARs cetme that wants 3500$,,even tho its in id say vg at best condition(dry rotted butt pad,heat damaged pistol grip ect), Or the never fired 91 for 4000$
alot of these ""new"" pre-ban rifles and mags are showing up and everyone wants top dollar or more for them.

i agree, the ak variants will drop the most,,
it will be for sure fun to see how themarket flex's with the influx of No ban weapons vs post and pre bans..... and maybe a deal or two can be had from it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:02:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By FiveO:
SA, sorry if I struck a nerve. I harbor no ill will toward anyone trying to make a fair buck BUT like I know there are bad cops, you surely know there are bad gun dealers. They are the object of my scorn.

As far as the CETME goes, I have never seen a real one, just the monstroities you mention being pawned off as "pre ban."

Regarding the mags; market value/price gouging. You use your term, I'll use mine.

As far as the AK goes, I meant that if someone were willing to sell it at a normal price as opposed to $1,500 or some such shit, ya know?

You are as touchy about your fellow gun dealers as I am about my fellow LEOs so I can relate to your defensiveness I guess...

Oh, going to the Mobile show, BTW.





I know there are bad dealers out there, I'm just trying to be fair about some of the gross generalities out there.

If you were talking about CAI CETMES offered as "preban" you should have been more specific.

As for mag prices, they reflect supply as the sunset hasn't happened yet. Now if you see $100 Glock mags next month THEN you have a point.

As for Norinco AKs, they are never gonna be reimported so the prices are not coming down. If you want a "cheap" AK you will get the opportunity to buy one, it just won't be a Norinco or Polytech.

Bash the bad dealers all you like, I only ask that you be more specific. Generalities cause problems for the honest dealers too.



I'm gonna watch to make sure you do not toss out or buy into any "unfair gross generalities" about my profession.

As far as the AKs go I am clear on what you are saying but now rather that being the only folder, fully equipped, etc, rifles out there, they will simply become collectables or curiosities and therefore, I would think, less expensive. I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:08:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 10:08:18 AM EST by repub18]
So FiveO did you go the show yet??
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:13:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 10:16:01 AM EST by FiveO]

Originally Posted By repub18:
So FiveO did you go the show yet??



Yeah, just got back. Actually we saw a bunh of NIW USGI mags for $20 and AK mags back at $8-12. We did not see any poser pre bans either for once.

I did not really feel too confrontational today so I did not fuck with the dumbass with the $125 G23 mags.

I guess I decided it was not worth arguing with idiots. Plus SA made me feel bad!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:24:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 10:24:49 AM EST by whodges13]
So If I want an under folder AKS-47 that will be legal right? I know no Norinco, but Romanian companies make these right? I want one for the collection.

http://www.ak-47.us/AKS-47.htm (LIKE THIS)
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:29:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By whodges13:
So If I want an under folder AKS-47 that will be legal right? I know no Norinco, but Romanian companies make these right? I want one for the collection.

http://www.ak-47.us/AKS-47.htm (LIKE THIS)



Yep, that is just what I want too.

It would have to comply with US part count rules but I suspect that the good folks who send the Sagias and Vepers and such will be chomping to get many AKs over here. Worst case is SAR types and I love my SAR, the fucker is bulletproof!

Perhaps SA will give us some insight?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:47:54 AM EST
I went to a little show this weekend up in Dade city, smallest funshow I've ever seen BTW. New AR mags for twenty bucks used for fifteen. New Colt 20 rndrs for thirty five. Hundred dollar Glock mags and sixty dollar 10/22 high caps that looked like they had been a dogs chew toy. Norinco folder for 595.
Got a cheapie stock for my AR and traded some 308 ammo for some 30-06 in bandos. Neat little show and close to my house.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:58:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
I went to a little show this weekend up in Dade city, smallest funshow I've ever seen BTW. New AR mags for twenty bucks used for fifteen. New Colt 20 rndrs for thirty five. Hundred dollar Glock mags and sixty dollar 10/22 high caps that looked like they had been a dogs chew toy. Norinco folder for 595.
Got a cheapie stock for my AR and traded some 308 ammo for some 30-06 in bandos. Neat little show and close to my house.



That's the ticket!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:59:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:24:40 AM EST
Due to popular demand...


Originally Posted By parshooter:

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
I said since the AWB was ending I'd give him $500.



And He said. What?



Him: "$500...er...?"
Me: "Yep, $500, cash, right here."
Him: "This is a preban, this is a very expensive stock and it has...(something bullshit)!"
Me: "Yeah, its a nice gun, no one is questoning the gun. But see this is "pre ban" because of the AWB, hence why each of these features adds to the value. But...the AWB is going away...which means this stuff is all legal and that means, sorry to tell you, your $3000, is going to worth not even half that." (I said this in a smartalec tone. Making him think I thought he was ignorant."
Him: "I know what the AWB is! I know its ending! But still this gun is worth a hell of a lot more than $500!!!"
Me: "Why...?"
Him: "look at all the features I've put on it!"
Me: "Yeah, but now that shit is available in quantities. Its not worth as much now (Sept 13)!"
Him: "Look...(and I can't rmember all the shit is was picthing me but he tried to sell me on that it was a suberb fire arm and very accurate and that he would drop the price to $2750"
Me: "Nah, I'll just what for the HK"

And I walked away. He was pissed...the story kinda went downhill from the offer which was I didn't post it...
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:06:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
As for Norinco AKs, they are never gonna be reimported so the prices are not coming down. If you want a "cheap" AK you will get the opportunity to buy one, it just won't be a Norinco or Polytech.



"Cheap AK" meaning inexpensive or shitty build?

In my opinion if the Eastern European variants had been available in the late '80's early '90's the Chinese imports would have never gotten off the ground.But during this period China was enjoying favored nation trade status, and much of Eastern Europe was not.The only preban configured guns that I remember from that period that originated in Europe were the Zastava( and not really European ,Valmet) built variants and they were MUCH more expensive,MUCH better built than the Polytechs or Norinco. Now the shoe is on the other foot and we are trying to help our Eas.Euro. "buddies" by lightening trade restrictions making their product more cost effective, even if it is a backdoor "kit" type of arrangement.

Norinco (North China Industries) is/was not a PREMIUM manufacturer by even the wildest stretch of the imagination. Serviceable? Sure. Worth a(marginal) premium as a pre-ban collectible?Sure.But as a user/shooter neither Norinco nor her bastard brother company Polytech is worth a nickle more than any of the Eastern Euro variants and in all liklihood not worth as much. There are several U.S. "manufactured" A.K variants that are VERY good quality and again in MY opinion superior in quality to anything that ever came from China under ANY name. A good friend of mine still has several Poltech AK's and they are good rifles. One of them is a long barrel marked "National Match". I laugh everytime I see it. Only thing "match" prepared on it is the name. He'll never sell them so value is a moot point.

That being said I don't look for there to be a huge decline in prices for anything(complete guns) produced post ban/pre sunset. Dealers that have inventory in this category have values assigned to this inventory that are real not imaginary. If I have a gun in stock that costs me $650 it cost me $650 and ban/no ban isn't going to change that. If it sits long enough would I sell it a reduced margin to recover my assets? Probably. Would I lose money on it because some dickhead tells me it's not worth as much because it lacks evil features that he desires?HAHAHA.... Norfolk and Waypal!Don't want to buy it? Cool ,move your pimpley ass along and quit wasting my time.

People should not be foolish enough to think that manufacturers/dealers are going to be giving guns away because they are post ban configured. Instead they will price sunset configured guns to make the older(post config) more attractive to those who may not be interested in evil features(and there are pleny of them),while maintaining their original price point until stocks of post config. weapons are depleted/gone. At that point they will have already established a price point for the sunset guns that may or may not be considerably higher than current post config. guns. I can hear the howls of "price gougeing" already.This is a business for these people, they are here to make money and tommorrow it becomes a true "sellers market".Armchair commando's across America are frothing at the mouth for these evil features. Opportunity knocks for the smart business man.

Think of it like this post.config. guns set a baseline value just like a car without optional equipment. Now add convertible top(folder) and a stereo(flash hider) and trailer package(bayo lug). What just happened to the price? Thats right it went up. Why? Because you will pay MORE to get the features you want whether you need them or not . When these guns had thumbhole stocks,5 rd magazines and muzzle devices chopped of with a chop saw it was a "buyers" market. Tommorrow it's a sellers market because they have what YOU the buyer want. Like it or not YOU will pay for it..

There are however things that appear as though they are going to "deflate" considerably. Beta mags are a good example. Two months ago $450+, tommorrow $250-(which is still rediculous). Want to make an investment? Buy Beta's they are a proven market.

I keep seeing people say that there still won't be Uzi's, Tec-9,Mac's because they are still banned. Not so. 50oz. pistol rule sunsets with the rest of this bill and so Uzi pistols, Tec-9 pistols, Mac pistols , Krinkov pistols, OA93 pistols, will once again be legal for sale . It's a sure bet that legislation isn't far down the road on these "pistols" so another good investment opportunity exists here.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:44:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:49:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 12:51:12 PM EST by RenegadeX]
.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 1:59:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Sigh....

1. NOBODY said the Norincos were great quality, only that they won't be imported again or cheap anytime soon.

2. NOBODY said "cheap or affordable" meant crap quality. Several decent quality Eastern European imports will likely come in and be 922r compliant with underfolders.



Sorry man that wasn't meant to be posted in an accusatory tone and I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.I guess I misunderstood your original post as it read like you were proud of the Chinese units. Obviously I'm not. Thats why I asked if you meant "inexpensive or shitty build?"
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 2:12:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 2:36:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 2:36:38 PM EST by wildearp]



Bash the bad dealers all you like, I only ask that you be more specific. Generalities cause problems for the honest dealers too.



I'm gonna watch to make sure you do not toss out or buy into any "unfair gross generalities" about my profession.

As far as the AKs go I am clear on what you are saying but now rather that being the only folder, fully equipped, etc, rifles out there, they will simply become collectables or curiosities and therefore, I would think, less expensive. I could be wrong.
______________________________________________________________________
Gross generalities? Having done an extensive amount of traveling and having been to gun stores and shows in many states, I would say that it is a valid generality. Price gouging for pure garbage is the norm, and this from people that should be OUR friends. You may not fit the puzzle, but most do. I only say this, because someone here may read this and see themself. Many of us unwashed have access to wholesale price lists and have a marketing backbround. It absolutely sucks to find a huge gun store and find nothing within the walls that is a good deal. It pisses me off. It needs to be said.

To validate that paragraph, I have found some of the best deals here on the ARFcom. Many deals better than gunshows. For those dealers, I commend you! I also have my expired FFL hanging on the inside wall of my safe, and I still receive many wholesale price lists.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 2:54:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By wildearp:
To validate that paragraph, I have found some of the best deals here on the ARFcom. Many deals better than gunshows. For those dealers, I commend you! I also have my expired FFL hanging on the inside wall of my safe, and I still receive many wholesale price lists.



I agree.

In the last several years the only purchases I have made at gunshows were several GI gun cleaning "toothbrushes," one of those bended fibre optic plastic bore illuminator thingies and today, a case of Wolf polymere .223 @ $110.

Other than that all of my gun related purchases have been made at t he EE or sometimes elsewhere on the 'net.

Gunshows are an excuse for me and my brothers to get together and finger fuck overpriced BS then go to Hooters on a Sunday afternoon. That's about it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:01:27 PM EST
The next local Gun show will be Oct and am actually expecting to see no price change. I figure the dealers will continue to try and screw the people for another few months.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:09:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
But Polytechs are pretty damn nice.




Agreed... best looking leper in the colony.
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