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Posted: 4/25/2013 6:57:34 PM EDT
The thoroughly wholesome and educational eastern front thread got me to thinking about when I used to play Panzer General II on the PC. It was one of my favorite computer war games, generally agreed to be a classic of the genre.

In PGII my strategy was often thus: I usually went for quality over quantity and upgraded my units to veteran status whenever possible as opposed to simply buying more. The point of this thread is, however, that for the most part I NEVER purchased new aircraft no matter what nation I played. I just used what I started the game with and used those primarily for recon. I was never a big adherent of air power in PZII, unlike some players.

No, my love was ARTILLERY. More specifically, artillery that I upgraded in every way possible and then protected with AAA (that I also upgraded in every way possible). Of course, combined arms coordination was the critical factor, but my "combined arms" consisted of armor, elite infantry, copious AAA, and massive, brutal, powerful friggin' ARTY (my AAA was there for one purpose and one purpose only: to defend my precious arty)!!!

Bombers? Fighter planes? I didn't need any stinkin' bombers. I maneuvered my forces adroitly, always looking for the chance to POUND THE LIVING FUCK out of my opponent with my beautiful, deadly, massed guns. Oh, the sweet smell of success! Many times, by the time I'd worked over a fortified city with my arty, my infantry wouldn't take any casualties when they assaulted.

My opponents would be left stunned, smashed, stupefied, bereft of any defense against the mighty steel rain pouring down upon their pointy heads!

Now:

Why doesn't the U.S. Army follow a similar doctrine in the real world? Artillery is cheaper than bombers, can be mass produced, and can do the same thing at the tactical level (we're not talking strategic bombing, here): knock down buildings and blow shit up. Why doesn't the U.S. military abide by the principles of Field Marshal Echo_Hotel? Let the Zoomies fly around in their fancy aero-planes and look cool. Who needs'em when you have legions of gun bunnies at your beck and call? Why does the U.S. military seem so "aircraft centric?"

Experts and fools are all welcome to respond.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:29:00 PM EDT
You bastages probably never played Axis & Allies, either.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:35:17 PM EDT
If we ever fought a war in super-mountainous terrain, it might be slightly easier and faster to get bombs on target than artillery. Especially if said war had no defined "front line" and engagements were random and sporadic.  Totally theoretical.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:45:01 PM EDT



Originally Posted By ZoomieFoosh:


If we ever fought a war in super-mountainous terrain,


IF?  We've been fighting there for 10+ years.

 
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:46:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By ZoomieFoosh:
If we ever fought a war in super-mountainous terrain,

IF?  We've been fighting there for 10+ years.  


Written with sarcasm...
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:51:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 7:52:32 PM EDT by Echo_Hotel]
Originally Posted By ZoomieFoosh:

If we ever fought a war in super-mountainous terrain, it might be slightly easier and faster to get bombs on target than artillery. Especially if said war had no defined "front line" and engagements were random and sporadic.  Totally theoretical.


Hmmm...I suspect from your avatar that your viewpoint may be "aircraft-centric."

We'll forgive you for that.

Anyway, I freely admit that in highly mountainous terrain one can't lug a bunch of arty and self-propelled guns around. But what about when we invaded Iraq? I read somewhere that we came darn close to running out of artillery shells a few times. The big brains at the top apparently hadn't counted on the voracious appetite of the guns for ammunition. Grunts like their fire support. They like it a lot, apparently.

I don't think the Air Force or Navy ever came close to running out of bombs. No, they got to sit up there boring holes in the sky in air conditioned comfort, waiting for the call for CAS.

Just seems cheaper to drop shells on the enemy rather than bombs. Plus, gun bunnies don't get shot down and paraded in front of cameras and put on YouTube and such. Seems to me that the MLRS would be just as valuable as the F-15E most of the time.

*ETA: keep in mind, I got all of my strategic level training from Panzer General II.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:56:57 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:


You bastages probably never played Axis & Allies, either.


I laugh at your axis and allies...



Try this:







 
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 7:58:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:
You bastages probably never played Axis & Allies, either.

I laugh at your axis and allies...

Try this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8a/Third_Reich_box_cover.jpg
 


Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:10:40 PM EDT
Look up the free download for winSPWW2 and winSPMBT
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:13:37 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Chaingun:


Look up the free download for winSPWW2 and winSPMBT


Huge +1 there.



 
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:13:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chaingun:

Look up the free download for winSPWW2 and winSPMBT


I actually had downloaded SPMBT but then I reinstalled my OS and lost it. I'll have to download it again.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:38:30 PM EDT
You just totally self-invented Soviet military doctrine.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:43:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:44:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:47:55 PM EDT
In real life, you'd find out what SEAD means, then your Arty pieces would get destroyed.
 
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:54:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
In real life, you'd find out what SEAD means, then your Arty pieces would get destroyed.  


A doctrine developed to counter soviet AAA centric doctrine.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:58:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 8:59:47 PM EDT by vern23]
sadflkdfladsj





 
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 9:00:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 9:00:26 PM EDT by Enigma102083]
Originally Posted By vern23:
sadflkdfladsj
 


Haha, you fucked up


Smoke yourself.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 9:00:46 PM EDT
If only the strategery of real life was as simple as computer games.
 
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 10:42:37 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Enigma102083:


You just totally self-invented Soviet military doctrine.






 
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 11:10:35 PM EDT
Airplanes are a LOT more mobile than arty. In a running fight, your tanks and mech infantry can often outrun your arty.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 11:13:09 PM EDT
In the last 20 years the US Army has decreased the amount of firepower available to a DIV CDR by 75%, cut command and control capabilities and will soon phase out the most effective munitions.

So we are actually going in the other direction.
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 11:13:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cpl_fisher:
Airplanes are a LOT more mobile than arty. In a running fight, your tanks and mech infantry can often outrun your arty.


Only because US Artillery is both slow and short ranged.
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