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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#1]
I dont really care what the answer to that question is, either way we're all fucked.
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:31:58 PM EDT
[#2]
People choose their own life's path with help and signs on how to do it from God.
A combo of both really. Fate, yay or nay is the question. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:34:08 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:40:04 PM EDT
[#4]
Can you come and give a speech at my sister's high school? |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:44:32 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:52:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Good question.
I will answer to the best of my ability. Ever man, woman, and childd has free will. It is what makes us differant then the animals. We have the ability to judge, create, think, and thus cotrol our environment. Not other animal on this planet is able to do this. Some people will also refer to this as "Original Sin" but that's for a differant topic. So basically it is we that determine our own destiny. Now keep in mind that thru prayer and meditation one can align his will with the will of God. SGatr15 |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:52:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Free will. I am a secularist. I am not even a secular humanist, because they believe people are inherently good.
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:52:59 PM EDT
[#8]
There is no god.
Shit happens. Especially if you party naked! 
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:54:29 PM EDT
[#9]
GOD has a master plan with emphasis on its conclusion and intervenes to keep it on course in the grand scheme. We're designed to choose the path to HIM or away from HIM. Good or evil. I guess HE kind of threw us into life to ultimately deal with ourselves. That's my simplified view.
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:54:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Why does it happen?
Because it happens. Roll the bones. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:55:09 PM EDT
[#11]
I think it could go either way. But it falls to whether you believe in god (or gods) or not. That can go either way too
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:56:12 PM EDT
[#12]
There is no FREE WILL in the pure sense, people make choices but those choices are influenced by a subtle inperceptable force called spirit.
Free will denies the sovereignty of God. God takes responsibility for everything. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 7:59:00 PM EDT
[#13]
There is God's will, and then there is your free will.
All you have to do is make sure yours matches His. It's not that difficult, really.... |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:03:11 PM EDT
[#14]
I thought that the normal Christian lin was that God gave us free will? |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:03:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Only if there is free beer. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 8:13:39 PM EDT
[#16]
I believe in free will.
We all choose the path that we take each and every day. We choose to be good parents, responsible citizens, and moral or not. There is no one to blame but yourself when you choose to do otherwise. Most are exposed to, are taught, or at least know of the moral way. We know the right way to behave but for our own selfish benefit we wrong or oppress others. This is not moral, is only self indulgent, and can lead only to more evil. Within everyone is the ability to do good and all must be held accountable here and in the after life for their actions, everyday and at all times. 
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:05:45 PM EDT
[#17]
DT
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:06:34 PM EDT
[#18]
No that is the common misconception but not the truth, God knows the end from the beginning the alpha and the omega, a sparrow doesn't fall without his notice, the hairs on your head are numbered and known by Him. People try to make God small like a human so they can comprehend Him rather than woship Him as the Creator of the universe beyond the capability of simple text language to communicate such glory. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:07:48 PM EDT
[#19]
"Ever man, woman, and childd has free will. It is what makes us differant then the animals."
And my cats and dogs are what robots? "We have the ability to judge, create, think, and thus cotrol our environment." While I doubt animals "judge" the way people do, they certainly think, create and do a lot to control their environment also. They were here billions of years before people were, people just build more elaborate structures, and can do more to control environments. But to say animals don't do any of that, I don't agree. They day people can make themselves immortal is the day they're really different from animals. While God might have a master plan, I don't think everything that happens is a result of His doing. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:19:47 PM EDT
[#20]
2Thes.2 1. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: Scripture doesnt liken man to robots, God likens them to clay, simple mud. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:24:05 PM EDT
[#21]
WTF would God pre-ordain ppl. to be rapists and child molestors? That makes absolutely no sense...and if it was true...well, that isn't a God I want to believe in. Oh, the answer is free will in case that wasn't clear. 
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:27:58 PM EDT
[#22]
The problem with this view is this: If there is no Free Will, then we truely do not have choices. If we do not have choices, then we can not sin. If we can not sin, then we are sinless. If we are sinless, then all of the evil things in the world are actually good.  See, there MUST be Free Will... |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:30:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Man is born with a sin nature and is bound by sin. Yet God offers man freedom from his chains. Man can either turn to God and be set free, or say no to God and remain a servant to sin.
God is not a Calvinist, and men are not puppets on a string. Men do have the freedom to choose. Men are responsible for their actions. God's plan will come to pass on his timetable. Man cannot thwart his plan. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:32:23 PM EDT
[#24]
You, sir are confusing FOREKNOWLEDGE with FORE-CONTROL. If God controls all of our every actions, then God is a murderer. The Bible refutes this point: "Let no man say when he is tempted that he is tempted of God..." |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:32:41 PM EDT
[#25]
The pahantom of free-will |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:35:28 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:37:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Please answer my question: How can there be sin, if there is no free will?
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:38:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Are you Muslim? This sounds much like the rhetoric spouted by those that behead American non-combatants. Why then, shouldn't any of us kill anyone we please? |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:43:45 PM EDT
[#29]
 minus the Y  |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:47:34 PM EDT
[#30]
There is no way to answer the free-will question with seven words or less and why just one essay is linked. If you reduce the question to the eleven words above you just used the only answer that is as short is that there is no sin at that level. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:54:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Free does not mean "without influence", Free (in this case) means that 1) there are legitimate, individual choices and 2) that the individual can indeed make a choice. Let's do a little experiment here, shall we? Close your eyes right now. There--you just made a choice. Since you made a choice (whether or not you actually closed your eyes is irrelevant), you must have Free Will. Personally, I think we as Christians tend to make these things more complicated than they actually are. The Bible says that we sin. Sin MUST involve a choice. Therefore there MUST be Free Will. It really is that simple. Quit thinking so hard, you are going to strain something! 
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Posted: 9/20/2004 9:57:32 PM EDT
[#32]
No. Even Jesus Christ had to take responsibility for his own actions ("not my will but thine"). Each and every man may choose his own way in life. God loves us too much to force us to make a decision. He may have foreknowledge of our choices, but he does not control them! God cannot take responsibility for our sins unless we allow him to. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:02:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Think of it this way:
1) If there is no Free Will, then we can not sin. If we can not sin, then we do not need a Savior. This doctrine of MAN has made a Savior irrelevant! 2) If there is no Free Will, then God has SPECIFICALLY CHOSEN who goes to Heaven. The logic follows from this that God created some of Mankind, with no possibility of going to Heaven. Therefore, you worship a God who created a certain portion of the population specifically in order to send them to Hell, and endure eternal torment! Sounds to me like you have created God in your own image, and made a Savior irrelevant. Since I know you haven't actually intentionally done this, please think carefully about the logical conclusion of some of the doctrine you espouse. Remember, this thought process was invented by Calvin, and it certainly wasn't something that was believed by the First Century Church. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:03:36 PM EDT
[#34]
You claim to be superior to God then. God can and does force us to do many things, thank God. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:05:30 PM EDT
[#35]
When dealing with pre-destination, it is wise to keep this in mind:
God preordained the Bride of Christ. The Bride is the Church. Individual membership within this group is self-determined, and voluntary. If you read all of those "tough" passages (Romans 9, 11?) with this in mind, it all becomes clear. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:09:35 PM EDT
[#36]
I can believe that you would choose to worship a God that forces people to sin. What kind of crazy doctrine is that? If you can't see the problems with this thought process, I truly do feel sorry for you. I am beginning to think that this might be one of those "pearls before swine" situations. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:10:06 PM EDT
[#37]
off topic but the eternal torment doctrine is a dogma of demons. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:12:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Actually, it was not invented by Calvin. Calvin got it from Augustine, and Augustine got it from Manichaeanism. Calvin took the man-made religion and its beliefs and went to the Bible to try and prove them. He uses some verses here and there, taking them out of their context, to try and support the false doctrines. |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:15:04 PM EDT
[#39]
You poor, poor fool.  I am done here. Clearly, you are brainwashed beyond help, and I think my logic will stand for those that have the ability to examine it from an objective viewpoint. (PS, according to your logic, God is making me believe this. Therefore I must be right!) |
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Posted: 9/20/2004 10:20:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Just in case you missed it the first time.
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Posted: 9/21/2004 7:43:13 PM EDT
[#41]
So you're saying, all those people killed at the WTC on 9/11, all our people who have died in in the middle east, are wicked and being destroyed by God??? |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 8:23:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Check the Old testament, yes God caused that tower to fall on those people, yes He creates vesels of wrath fitted unto destruction and yes He sends sufferings upon the saints and yes He is more than justified in doing so.
God is great, why try to make Him a limited human with mortal logic? |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 8:37:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Ok, I guess you've made it clear who you really worship. You might have noticed the conspicuous absence of the Devil in the OT, and the figure of speech where "caused" is substituted for "allowed". Let's review quickly:
Not just "no darkness", but "no darkness at all". Really.
If you're worshiping the god (the god of this world) who bombed the world trade center, I suggest you rethink your allegiances, 'cause it ain't the big guy upstairs. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 8:51:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Ignore this fool. Man and Satan brings evil...not God. SGtar15 |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:01:21 PM EDT
[#45]
"Isiah 45-5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God besides me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me; 6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:02:54 PM EDT
[#46]
And just what did Christ say bout calling your brother fool? read Isiah 45-7 again. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:05:19 PM EDT
[#47]
"Scripture doesnt liken man to robots, God likens them to clay, simple mud."
Well if every single action were God's will then we'd basically be nothing but robots is all I was suggesting, and I don't think that is the case. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:08:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Please reread my post. The bit about the Devil not being mentioned much in the OT. The other bit about figures of speech where God "creating" evil means God "allowing" evil because of our free will (and Lucifer's). He created all (including Lucifer). The fact that Lucifer became evil was a function of his free will, not of God's will. |
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:09:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Christ never met you. SGtar15
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Posted: 9/21/2004 9:11:38 PM EDT
[#50]
"Man and Satan brings evil...not God."
And God brought forth man and Satan, so what's the difference? |
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