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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 8/17/2001 5:45:52 AM EDT
I think this needs to be said. Frequently enuf, I’ve seen on this board that people have the impression that many churches / religions are against guns, and therefore many people are against religion / God. While its is true that many churches are against guns, God most definitely is not. AS the self-appointed board Chaplain, let me set the record straight. First, personal responsibility, self control and accountability are all Scriptural principles. It follows from these fundamental teachings that NO inanimate object is capable of either morality or immorality. ONLY the user can perpetrate moral or immoral acts with a gun. To teach otherwise is to contradict Scripture. Yes, you can read that to mean these “churches” are contradicting God. Second, God holds all innocent life as sacred. The RIGHT of self-defense, from both a murderer, and a tyrannical gov’t is both Scriptural and right. Frequentl;y, it was God Himself that sent Israel into battle, as the nations they fought against had violated God’s laws, most notable His reverence for innocent life. Next, let me offer an illustration. In the Garden of Gethsemane, when Chrsit was about to be crucified, peter pulled out his sword and cut off a soldiers ear. (He was pretty good with a sword, leading me to believe he practiced. Since Jesus was all-knowing, He knew Peter both had a sword, and practiced with it.) But MOST interesting is Jesus response. He neither chided Peter for not-so –concealed carry of a sword, nor the willingmess to use it in defense of others. He simply told Peter it was God’s intent that Jesus should both die for sinners, and rise again in victory over sin. Ownership / useage wasn’t the isssue – timing was. I could go on, but I believe I’ve made my case. Now, it is up to you to properly adjust your view of God.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 5:51:15 AM EDT
Right on, Garandman. That needed to be said.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 5:51:30 AM EDT
I personally do not think that the church is against guns. However, it is against some of the uses. The Vatican has its own armory.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 5:53:28 AM EDT
Ask the rabbi has some good comments on god & guns, not to mention all sorts of other good advice. [url]www.jpfo.org/askrabbi.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 5:55:54 AM EDT
The Vatican is armed, but the Catholic Church has always been in the forefront of the anti-gun movement. So much so that their tax-free status has been called into question. Just another "It's okay for us but not for you organization" Their principles are no different than Rosie's...they just have more money.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 5:57:50 AM EDT
My god is 100% behind me having guns. In fact it is a tenent of my religion. I could not imagine not having guns. That would be sacrilegous.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 5:57:57 AM EDT
It's real simple. God came first and then there came guns. So obviously he wanted us to have them, otherwise he wouldn't have given us opposable thumbs to grip the stocks!! sgtar15
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 6:03:52 AM EDT
Then again, maybe God hates guns. What's God's favorite color? I bet one of you knows.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 6:04:15 AM EDT
what a lovely fictional story, thanks for sharing that.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 6:07:30 AM EDT
Lo! There! I can see my father... Lo! There! I can see my mother... something something... cant remember the rest..... In the Halls of valhalla!
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 6:15:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 6:46:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: Blessed are the Pessimists for they carry extra Ammo mike
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LOL!!!!! [:D] thanx for that!!!! I think I'm gonna change "pessimist" to "realist" and make that a bumper sticker. [:D] Look - Beer_Slayer created the Tenth Beautitude. (See Matt 5) [:D]
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 7:10:27 AM EDT
It's great to have someone here that actually speaks for god. Can you ask him where my wife's car keys are, damn 2 year old was playing with them last night and now we can't find them anywhere.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 7:17:15 AM EDT
[size=6]UNDER THE SOFA, IN THE LIVINGROOM.[/size=6]
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 7:44:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: Then again, maybe God hates guns. What's God's favorite color? I bet one of you knows.
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Green. Duh. Have you looked outside? [:D]
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 8:13:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: It's great to have someone here that actually speaks for god. Can you ask him where my wife's car keys are, damn 2 year old was playing with them last night and now we can't find them anywhere.
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Of course, a "god" whose name is not worth capitalizing probably wouldn't know where your keyes are anyway. But I gotta think that anyone named [b]"hell raiser" [/b] who refers to their own flesh and blood as a "damn 2 year old" is appropriately named [}:D]
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 8:19:30 AM EDT
Not every priest of bishop is anti-gun, and there was an enciclical written by the Pope which says that self-defense is a moral duty.[}:D] GunLvr
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 9:16:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tras:
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: Then again, maybe God hates guns. What's God's favorite color? I bet one of you knows.
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Green. Duh. Have you looked outside? [:D]
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I just looked; you are correct![smoke]
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 9:45:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tras:
Originally Posted By Major-Murphy: Then again, maybe God hates guns. What's God's favorite color? I bet one of you knows.
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Green. Duh. Have you looked outside? [:D]
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Yeah, but look up. Also, fly around the world. A lot more blue than green.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 10:59:15 AM EDT
Look at most of the universe...it would seem black is really God's favorite color.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 11:19:57 AM EDT
Garandman. God is OK with guns .... GREAT. Therefore, everyone who say "I have no opinion except that which God and the Bible give me, should all rally around the pro0gun movement...thus, we are a HUGE MAJORITY here in the US.... But "thems" ain't the facts, damn that reality. So I guess it would be man's "organized belief" that is causing all the problems... If the Pope is anti-gun but God is pro-Gun....how do they reconcile...isn't the Pope God's servant on earth? If so, isn't he derelict in his duties? No disrespect intended...this is a real question.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 2:11:33 PM EDT
Luke 22:36 - "He that hath no sword should sell his robe and buy one." Jesus Christ No further explanations are necessary... In fact, the guy with the handle "garmentless" chose his ID based on this passage...
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 2:21:19 PM EDT
Now that you've reassured us that we aren't sinning by owning guns, according to your interpretation of what your god "said", what are supposed to do? For the record, "scriptural principles" are important only to those who believe those particular scriptures are the right ones. Frankly, whether owning guns puts me in accordance with your scriptures is of no importance to me, any more than whether a package of food that I buy is marked kosher, or I have drunk wine made from dates, or worked on anybody's Sabbath. Whether owning guns makes you feel holy is entirely your own affair. I think rather than it "needing" to be said, you just "wanted" it to be heard. and that is an entirely different thing.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 2:39:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2001 2:36:41 PM EDT by DBrewer842]
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 3:09:02 PM EDT
Dont you just love it.You title a thread so everyone nows it has religion in it.Yet you have people reply and tell you your wrong.That is what is great about faith.You just know .you dont have to prove it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 3:18:12 PM EDT
Garandman, Thanks for the wise words. I too, am a Christian gun owner! Praise be to God! Jim Hall
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 6:49:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARMALITE-FAN: That is what is great about faith.You just know. you dont have to prove it.
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Feels good deep inside your chest, don't it?
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 7:20:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 7:29:30 PM EDT
Yep, right between my Beretta and the extra mags. [b][blue]..."he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." [/blue][/b] Luke 22:36 ( that would be in the Holy Bible, Word of God, New Testament ) For those that keep knocking Christians/God/Jesus/etc.; someone said on another thread that "evolution IS a religion"...I agree and add that those with the fervent beliefs contrary or different from the Christian tenets are indeed of a "religion" of their own. Why else would these threads turn to bashfests? Huuuuhh? That said, Guns are Good! Believe THAT! Now, pass the ammo!!!
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 9:59:26 PM EDT
Sheep.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 5:25:43 AM EDT
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want-- yea, tho I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, then: thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. now: thy AR and thy 1911, they comfort me. God's no dummy, he carries.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 6:22:28 AM EDT
Well, let me give you a 'frinstance' when you may indeed be grateful that others are part of a 'churched' society, whether you are or not! HYPO: You're leaving a downtown restaurant with your wife at about 12:00 Midnight. You are both unarmed. As you are walking to your car, a door suddenly opens behind you and twelve young men spill out onto the sidewalk, and begin walking in the same direction as you. Does it matter to you, in the least, that those twelve young men are: a. Leaving a rap concert? b. Leaving a rock concert? c. Leaving a Young Men's Bible Study? Didn't take long to figure out your answer on that one, did it?[:D] Eric The(Churched)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 6:30:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2001 6:29:39 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 6:34:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Celt: The Vatican is armed, but the Catholic Church has always been in the forefront of the anti-gun movement. So much so that their tax-free status has been called into question. Just another "It's okay for us but not for you organization" Their principles are no different than Rosie's...they just have more money.
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Armed??? You mean with a bunch of hailberd toting Swiss guards in parachute pants that surround the Vatican? And who exactly is calling the Catholic Church's "tax-free status" into question?? Are you saying that the Catholic Church here in America is armed yet doesn't want it for the rest of us? Or are you saying that the Vatican is? It is true that the US Catholic Church is anti-gun, but you don't see armed guards around your local parish, do you? And I'm not quite sure how a foreign entity enjoys "tax-free status." I thought that they'd have to be a domestic organization. Maybe you can clarify that statement for me. What's your real beef with the Church anyway? I assume since you use the moniker "Celt" you identify with our (yes, I'm Irish) pagan past. Are you pagan? No judgement call, just curious.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 7:21:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: "Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" - Matthew 5:38 I believe further explanations ARE necessary - this clearly seems to say that you should not defend yourself at all.
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I wasn't going to touch this thread but this is an honest question that I can answer. It is commonly thought that the above passage would indicate that you should not defend yourself. This belief comes from the lack of historical knowledge surrounding the beginnings of Christianity as we know it. During the time of Christ, Jews and Christians (among others)were considered less than human by the ruling Romans. When they would strike a person in the face, it was always done with the back of the hand. To strike someone with the back of the hand was the greatest insult because it showed that you considered them unclean or less than human. Now the passage,[b]"But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"[/b] When someone strikes you with the back of their hand on the right cheek, they most likely will be striking you with their right hand as most people are right handed. To turn your other cheek (left cheek forward) would force them to strike you with their palm, that is if they wanted to strike you again. So by turning your cheek, you have either forced them to acknowledge that you are indeed human (the intent of the act), or you have forced them to strike you with their left backhand (an awkward thing to do for most people). This passage is a social act of defiance toward the ruling class.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 11:04:07 AM EDT
JESUS CHRIST & PORK AND BEANS - One is ham in a can the other is a canned ham. You can quote me on that one! I can show you a gun, somebody please show me god.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 11:27:50 AM EDT
God + guns = Bad.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 1:50:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 1:54:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: Little do the atheists know that Darwin was actually a Christian who believed that evolution is part of God's work. brouhaha
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Now how in the hell can you prove or know that. More utter bullshit.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 1:58:35 PM EDT
I don't have to look around to see him. He is within me everywhere I go. I may not always represent him well, but I know he is there. If you ever experience him, you will KNOW it.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 2:02:18 PM EDT
Post from mach1 -
God + guns = Bad.
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Sounds like something I heard from the liberal media during the Waco Standoff - 'nothing but a group of religious nuts with guns.' Someone, I forget who, but it sounds like something P. J. O'Roark would say, replied to that barbed criticism - [size=4]Hell, this Country was founded by religious nuts with guns![/size=4] But, hey, that's just our common history. You may whizz on it if you like! Eric The(JustDoItOuttaMyLineOfSight,Please!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 2:23:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 3:28:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2001 4:03:59 PM EDT by DJbump]
For 1Gun and all other cynics: One of many things about Creator is even though you have turned your back on your belief in him, he has not turned his back on His belief in you, he is and always will be there, and will welcome you back with open arms when you choose to return. "Do you need proof of God ?..... Does one light a torch to see the sun ?"....Buddhist proverb
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 11:34:54 PM EDT
I once learned from a great man of God. He said "nothing in and of itself is evil." God looks on the heart. A gun is like any other object, it can be used for good or bad. It all depends on the person using it. But God sure does support your right to keep and bear arms. God would not want anyone to hurt you or your children. In the ten commandments it says thou shalt not kill. The Hebrew word for kill is actually the word murder. To murder is quite another thing than to kill in self defense. You know, to often we see these wimpy-ass self-righteous religious preachers who portray Christians as weak wimpy-ass idiots. That is not how God meant for Christians to be. The true Christian, the true man of God should be strong and bold. And if he has to protect himself or his family, then he should be the most bad ass motha around. And armed to to the hilt to boot. Christ came that we might have life and have it more than abundantly. Finally my brethren, be strong in the Lord and the power of his might, put on the whole armour of God the you may be able to stand against the methods of the devil, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickidness in high places. Ephesians 6:10-12...And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall bfore you by the sword. And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword. Leviticus 26:7-8 How that for some bad ass Christians!
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 12:05:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DJbump: For 1Gun and all other cynics: One of many things about Creator is even though you have turned your back on your belief in him, he has not turned his back on His belief in you, he is and always will be there, and will welcome you back with open arms when you choose to return. "Do you need proof of God ?..... Does one light a torch to see the sun ?"....Buddhist proverb
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not accurate at all really, there was never anything to turn my back on in the first place. secondly there can be no return to a point i've never been to. the contradictions alone in religion are enough. mainly my problem is that i question everything and religion, or more so religious people, don't take questions well. proof of god? i require proof of everything. that's just me i guess. i respect your right to do,worship,follow,whatever you want. you need a god to justify your gun ownership that's fine, it's your life. live it and enjoy. need to post about how pro-gun your god is to reinforce your faith in it. ok that's fine too i guess. i do not understand why it is needed if faith is so strong a foundation to have. but again that's just my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 12:56:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 4:17:49 AM EDT
The true Christian, the true man of God should be strong and bold. And if he has to protect himself or his family, then he should be the most bad ass motha around.
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But if a Christian is going to straight to Heaven after death, why should he bother to defend himself? Why not let the bad guys help send you home to Jesus?
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 5:03:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gunlover: In the ten commandments it says thou shalt not kill. The Hebrew word for kill is actually the word murder. To murder is quite another thing than to kill in self defense.
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Your point is correct but your wording is wrong. Hebrew has different words for killing and murder just like English. The Commandment reads "Thou shalt not murder." in Hebrew. But it was mistranslated as "Thou shalt not kill." into English. They have totally different meanings.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 8:07:51 AM EDT
Armalite Fan wrote "Dont you just love it.You title a thread so everyone nows it has religion in it.Yet you have people reply and tell you your wrong.That is what is great about faith.You just know .you dont have to prove it." Wow, have you annoyed me! OK, breathe... reminder... this is not entitled a "one opinion board"...it's a discussion board, thus, the discussion......I don't think Garandman started this thread with the intend of suppressing other's opinions... next - religion is fine for YOU without proof... but if you would like to compel others to think like you do, you have two options... Persuade me or force me.... if you want to try persuading me....you have to prove it... no proof, go away. my opinion... religion is fine... who cares what you want to believe.... I feel you are entitled to believe whatever you want (religious freedom)... so long as it does not interfere with my right to do the same (a-theist...lack of religion). I object to anyone interfering with my "religion or lack there of"....you do this when: -you organize and lobby on religious principals to impact my rights...for example, when a "church" comes out against the 2nd amendment and lobbies in the public sector -you organize and establish a practice of aggressively "selling" your belief through unsolicited communication (pamphlets, house to house visits, etc) -you organize and run a business without paying taxes, where the proceeds of the business are used to lobby government basically... the "church" infringes on my rights to freedom of religion and I resent it...leave me alone and I will leave you alone... that is religious tolerance.. ps - interpreting the bible is fine...do as you will, but when you "quote scripture" to a non-believer, I see it as "truth-speak" an insidious form of mind-control loathed by real Americans...
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