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Posted: 12/2/2007 8:19:09 AM EDT
I have owned a lot of pistols (I am not rich, I just trade around a lot, as I am sure that many of you also do), including several 1911s of various brand names. I have owned XDs and CZs and DEs, etc. Almost none of them was as failure free as any of my Glocks.

I recall once I bought two identical "loaded" Spingfields, one for me -- one for my brother. We went shooting and BOTH guns would stovepipe about every third or fourth round -- no matter what ammo we tried. I remember going to the IDPA forum and asking for advice and got everything from extractor to slide face as the culprit. After much deliberation I remember going back to the forum and reporting that the problem was solved and that I had shot all day without a single malfunction. When asked what the problem was and how did I fix it, I replied "the problem was the weapons sucked" and "I fixed it by replacing them with Glock 21s".

You can run it over, drop it from a plane, bury it in mud and any of a myriad of other torture tests that you can think of and the Glock will invariable fire with little more than a shake or two to clear the barrel.

They are not HK expensive, but they are not exactly Bryco cheap (last I checked they cost more than an XD).

And as for kBs...HKs and 1911s do it too. In fact gunwriter Garry James has collected many documented instances of such non-Glock kB occurrences. Those too, usually caused by overpowered loads.

But does anyone associate HK with kB? Nope. I just don't get it.

Accuracy is good, performance is stellar, price is right.

I am pretty much chalking it up to snobbery. I saw a T-Shirt that I think sums it up as far as I can tell: "Kimber is what you show your friends...Glock is what you show your enemies".

I would like to see a poll where the question was phrased like so: You have a box of brand name commercial .45 ammo. You have your choice of two weapons that your life will depend on immediately as-is, straight out of the box. Those two weapons are a Glock 21 or a Springfield 1911A1 of comparable price (not a TGO II or similar high end custom shop version). Which would you choose? (I would set up the poll but I don't know how).

For the record, before I end this post, let me add that I can't understand why the Ruger "P" series isn't lauded more. I have never had one of them fail either.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:20:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:22:28 AM EDT
Grip angle.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:22:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:23:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 8:23:45 AM EDT by badfish274]


=

Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:23:56 AM EDT
Thoroughly discussed here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=617862

If you really want to know the answer, find it here: Glock vs. Others explained
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:24:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:25:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 8:26:49 AM EDT by Rosenrot]
In terms of reliability Glock is second to none.

Glock torture test
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:25:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RickTinsley:
Glock Hate...What Gives?











Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:27:02 AM EDT
height=8
Thoroughly discussed here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=617862

If you really want to know the answer, find it here: Glock vs. Others explained


Sorry if I rehashed a tired subject, I did a search and didn't get any results. I will read the threads suggested and perhaps that will answer my question. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:27:37 AM EDT
I don't mind if you post it again. I was just letting you know.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:27:39 AM EDT
glock punched me in the balls and spilled coke on my carpet
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:29:14 AM EDT
It's a vanilla chocolate thing, with an inexplicable hatred for vanilla.

I reluctantly got a Glock when I won it in a charity poker hand, I picked a 27, and it was about 1500 worry free rounds through it at IDPA.

Was anyone else there having feed, ejection problems? Not that I recall, but that Glock goes bang every single time I want it to.

If peace of mind means I don't shoot anyhting but factory FMJ, that's fine, that's all I shot out of anything except wheelguns, anyway.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:30:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:30:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shawnofthedead:
glock punched me in the balls and spilled coke on my carpet


Did your balls itch?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:33:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
In terms of reliability Glock is second to none.

Glock torture test


+1
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:34:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:36:55 AM EDT
I dunno, I outshoot my buddy with his glock, and I was using a ruger p89..
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:40:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 8:42:25 AM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
sights suck
ergonomics suck
the fact that they have a unusually high incident of KB's to everything else sucks

the only thing glock does right is PR marketing. how many "defects" have they tried to hide by calling them "upgrades" instead of recalling defective issues.

shoot what works FOR YOU. glock doesn't work for me. i will never own another and will do my best to talk people out of them

jmho

mike


The man speaks truth. We have a lot of offiers that carry the brand since they get a killer deal from the distributor when they graduate the Academy. (below cost)

The armorer keeps handgun and ammo recalls/safety bulletins etc on clipboards in the range office. Glock has it's very own clipboard that looks like a phone directory.

BTW: Know how to cure a Glock user?

Let him shoot 50 rounds thru your Sig or Kimber on the qual course. I've saved 4 officers from the dark side that way so far.

Glock is the Harley Davidson of the gun world. Okay product, but man, can they sell T-shirts.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:41:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SplatSTi:
I dunno, I outshoot my buddy with his glock, and I was using a ruger p89..


What does that prove? Your buddy can't shoot?

I think the turn off of Glocks can be summed up to:
Grip angle
lack of mechanical safety
plastic
ugliness- they look okay to me, but I know some think they are ugly.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:41:42 AM EDT
Jesus titty fucking crist, how many times do we need to go over this?

We all hate glock because glock is complete shit
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:43:47 AM EDT
Because if John Moses Browning (PBOH) didn't design it, it is inferior.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:43:51 AM EDT
Paul Jannuzzo

60 Minutes

Ballistic Fingerprinting.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:45:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 8:46:40 AM EDT by ED_P]
I have a G19 and G26 because they are good for what they are, but the stupid little trigger in trigger IS NOT a safety, and if you think the grip is as comfortable as a 1911/Beretta/SIG/HK you are lying to yourself to justify your choice in firearms.

You can say with proper handling the lack of a safety is not an issue, but we are all humans and having even a decocker is a step up, and also allows a much crisper, lighter SA trigger pull.



Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:45:19 AM EDT
I own lots of pistols with Glocks and 1911s being my favorites. Price and reliability make the Glock my first choice for a pistol to bet my life on though.

Kinda related, I don't how the DOD tested and rated the pistols last time but I find the Berreta to be lacking as a pistol I have bet my life on. Thankfully it looks like they are going to issue us M4s in addition to the M9s next deployment.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:46:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Badass03:
Jesus titty fucking crist, how many times do we need to go over this?

We all hate glock because glock is complete shit


In all fairness, this is not true.

Glock is a good beginner's firearm. Cheap, lots of accessories, easy to train on.

What it is NOT is indestructible, more accurate or more reliable than any other brand.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:47:00 AM EDT
I own and like.

My 19 is my carry pistol and has over 10k through it. Thursday was the first time I ever had a failure to feed using quality ammo; This does not include the failure of everything when I tried Wolf ammo. Replaced the recoil spring and put 500 down range like it was new.

I never liked the factory sights. Finally got off my ass and replaced with XS 24/7 Big Dots based on a friends recommendation. Best damn sights I have ever used for defense and target shooting.

I own a Springfield Champion, which I like but rarely shoot. Maybe 500 rounds. It likes Wolf. Looking to trade it for a glock 19 or 26.

However, I must say that the most comfortable shooters I have owned are the Steyr M9 and M40. Ergonomically built for my hands just not as reliable as my G19.

Shoot and carry what you like. If it works for you it's good!
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:50:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:50:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ED_P:
I have a G19 and G26 because they are good for what they are, but the stupid little trigger in trigger IS NOT a safety, and if you think the grip is as comfortable as a 1911/Beretta/SIG/HK you are lying to yourself to justify your choice in firearms.

You can say with proper handling the lack of a safety is not an issue, but we are all humans and having even a decocker is a step up, and also allows a much crisper, lighter SA trigger pull.





Grip angle it the most natural pointing grip. I don't find it more or less comfortable. I don't pay attention, I line up the ishgts on any weapon.

Take a glock and take a 1911 out. close your eyes and raise the weapon, trying to figure out when the sights are aligned with both weapons. Most likely the glock will be more aligned than the 1911 - thats what people mean by more naturally pointing. Really it isn't that big a deal.

If you can't handle a slight change in grip angle, then well you are a pussy
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:55:43 AM EDT
I didn't like Glock for the longest time myself. I thought they were cheap, crappy plastic, and just plain ugly. I was and still am a 1911 bastard. But as it usually happens, I grew up some more and through my military service I had the chance to work with many firearms. I ended up owning two Glocks, the 19 and 22. I am happy with both of them and have not had any problems with them, even with extended use of +p+ ammo in both. I guess its just up to the person and there first impression of a weapon at the range. They are moderately priced and are very durable. Point is, I can sit here all day and find a dozen things wrong with every firearm brand on the market today but in the end what you like is what you like. Kinda like blondes, red heads, VS. burnettes and weaves
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:55:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:58:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By Paveway_:

Originally Posted By ED_P:
I have a G19 and G26 because they are good for what they are, but the stupid little trigger in trigger IS NOT a safety, and if you think the grip is as comfortable as a 1911/Beretta/SIG/HK you are lying to yourself to justify your choice in firearms.

You can say with proper handling the lack of a safety is not an issue, but we are all humans and having even a decocker is a step up, and also allows a much crisper, lighter SA trigger pull.





Grip angle it the most natural pointing grip. I don't find it more or less comfortable. I don't pay attention, I line up the ishgts on any weapon.

Take a glock and take a 1911 out. close your eyes and raise the weapon, trying to figure out when the sights are aligned with both weapons. Most likely the glock will be more aligned than the 1911 - thats what people mean by more naturally pointing. Really it isn't that big a deal.

If you can't handle a slight change in grip angle, then well you are a pussy


thats a pretty broad and incorrect statement for most people.

it's not a matter of "compensating" for grip angle. in a defense situation speed wins and having to "compensate" may well result in a fast miss.

the glock angle will generally point high for MOST people people where the 1911 grip will generally be closer for "most" . that of course is subjective to the individual.




thats a pretty broad and incorrect statement for most people.


So is this


the glock angle will generally point high for MOST people people where the 1911 grip will generally be closer for "most" . that of course is subjective to the individual


You are claiming the 1911 points closer, but are saying my saying that a glock points closer is a broad and sweeping statment
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:00:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By Paveway_:

Originally Posted By ED_P:
I have a G19 and G26 because they are good for what they are, but the stupid little trigger in trigger IS NOT a safety, and if you think the grip is as comfortable as a 1911/Beretta/SIG/HK you are lying to yourself to justify your choice in firearms.

You can say with proper handling the lack of a safety is not an issue, but we are all humans and having even a decocker is a step up, and also allows a much crisper, lighter SA trigger pull.





Grip angle it the most natural pointing grip. I don't find it more or less comfortable. I don't pay attention, I line up the ishgts on any weapon.

Take a glock and take a 1911 out. close your eyes and raise the weapon, trying to figure out when the sights are aligned with both weapons. Most likely the glock will be more aligned than the 1911 - thats what people mean by more naturally pointing. Really it isn't that big a deal.

If you can't handle a slight change in grip angle, then well you are a pussy


thats a pretty broad and incorrect statement for most people.

it's not a matter of "compensating" for grip angle. in a defense situation speed wins and having to "compensate" may well result in a fast miss.

the glock angle will generally point high for MOST people people where the 1911 grip will generally be closer for "most" . that of course is subjective to the individual.


Quite the opposite is true- the grip is by far one of the biggest complaints of most people, and I agree with it. It has a very uncomfortable hump in the back that 1911's/SIG/Beretta/HK do not have.

I can switch between any gun and find the natural poiting angle after pointing blindly a few times, whether Glock or any of the other firearms listed, then looking whether you're high or low. The issue is that god awful hump on the back of compact and full size Glocks.


Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:01:59 AM EDT
From my perspective, there is the whole plastic thing. Yeah, I know that all pistols are going to the "space age" plastic, but Glock started the descent into plastic hell.
There is the grip angle thing. There is the pull the trigger to take it apart thing. There is the every squirrel and swinging manhood in the hood wanted a Glock fortay!
All of that is the reason that I do not personally care to purchase or shoot any Glocks. No big deal. I also think the AK47 is about the most god awful uncomfortable rifle to shoot. Life is all about choices, to each his own. Those that love them, have at 'em, no hate from me.
But the hate! That comes from one thing only: that is the sanctimonious, greater-than-thou, we-are-the-only-reliable-gun-ever-made, join the freaking BORG attitude that so many Glock owners have.
Now since none of you here are like that, no hate!
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:05:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By swede1986:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
In terms of reliability Glock is second to none.

Glock torture test


+1


you know the xd passed the same torture test


Nooooooo!
My world crumbles.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:07:14 AM EDT
height=8
how many times do we need to go over this?


Again, sorry to bring up old topics, its just that I have recently seem several comments amounting to this:
height=8
We all hate glock because glock is complete shit


And I couldn't seem to find out why.

For the record, I own a Sig 1911 and Kimber Ultra Carry, I like them both. I am not trying to impugn the 1911, I LIKE the 1911, I just don't trust it as much as I do my Glock.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:07:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By Badass03:
Jesus titty fucking crist, how many times do we need to go over this?

We all hate glock because glock is complete shit


In all fairness, this is not true.

Glock is a good beginner's firearm. Cheap, lots of accessories, easy to train on.

What it is NOT is indestructible, more accurate or more reliable than any other brand.


Yep, friend is a Glock Armorer and trainer, he will NEVER tell you Glocks run forever, don't fail on occasion or break. Parts DO wear out, go out of spec and they can crud up and FTF. He stays reasonably busy so that tells one something. He also likes them very much, CCWs them but shoots competition with a built 1911.

I think a lot boils down to the fact that a Glock, because of it's contruction and looks, is looked at like it's a tool first and foremost, and pride in ownership is non existant outside of the fact that is a reliable design and most people can shoot it with little training.

I PERSONALLY like a manual thumb safety and a S/A trigger, so Glocks aren't for me. I DON'T say they are bad handguns though.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:07:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:08:44 AM EDT
I think a lot of it is just personal experience. I really dig the 1911's grip angle and the trigger obviously over a Glock. Plus, I have had ZERO bad experiences with my 1911. I got my SA Operator for $500, and it's the most accurate handgun I own. It was actually the cheapest (I know I scored a deal) of all my handguns, and so far, it's tied for most reliable with an HK I have.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:10:24 AM EDT
I own a 1911 and only carry the Glock.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:10:58 AM EDT
I will add, and hopefully not hijack, by saying I think the Beretta M-92 also gets alot of hate as well, and IMO isn't deserving of most of it. That's a whole separate thread.

Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:11:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:12:12 AM EDT
Glocks tend to be polarizing, you either love them or hate them. I fall into the "hate" camp. I hate the grip, I hate the sights, I don't want my gun exploding on me and I don't want a .45 with +P ammo to weigh less than 30oz, and I don't want a gun without an external hammer. Also, Glock fans are always trying to make every other make of hangun out to be extremely unreliable, like the poster above who claimed to have 2 new SA 1911s jam every 4 or 5 rounds. That is pure BS, plain and simple. No gun commercially sold can get away with such poor QC and be a successful product.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:13:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 9:13:52 AM EDT by Falar]

Originally Posted By ED_P:
I will add, and hopefully not hijack, by saying I think the Beretta M-92 also gets alot of hate as well, and IMO isn't deserving of most of it. That's a whole separate thread.



I've commented on this before as well. I think it deserves all of the hate it gets. If you think it is a good weapon, what does it do better than its competition? IMO, nothing.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:13:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
Grip angle.


+1

That is really my only gripe with Glock. I always had to push front site down to get on target. With my Kimber and XD, I punch the gun out and the sites are almost dead on.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:13:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RickTinsley:

...

I recall once I bought two identical "loaded" Spingfields, one for me -- one for my brother. We went shooting and BOTH guns would stovepipe about every third or fourth round -- no matter what ammo we tried.

...




I will never understand why people think it's appropriate to compare a factory-correct Glock to an after-market 1911 clone. Apples to oranges.

A properly manufactured 1911 or 1911A1 is a superbly reliable firearm. If comparing to an original factory Glock, the appropriate comparison would seem to be something like a 1911A1 built by Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca or whatever. Comparing an original factory Glock to some after-maket clone made by "Springfield Armory" or whoever doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

After all, if some Chinese company started making cheap "Grock 21" clones, would you think it was fair for me to criticize the design of an original Glock 21 because my cheap "Grock" keeps having reliablity problems, and parts keep breaking?

I have NEVER had a reliability problem with my WW2 1911A1, and it is a very accurate shooter. The fact that TONS of manufacturers (some of the using cappy parts, some of them tweaked "race guns", some of the modified in subtle ways, some of them not to spec, etc.) are now making 1911 variations doesn't change anything about the design and reliability of a correctly manufacture 1911 to original specs.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:14:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tom1000rr:
I own a 1911 and only carry the Glock.


Someday you will step out of the entry level gun and begin to learn how to shoot
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:17:57 AM EDT
Perceived Value!
You take a woefully average product line like Harley Davidson, K-40 or Glock and apply generous marketing hype telling how terriffic this POS is and people buy them. Saturn automobiles fit this catagory as well.
Marketing at its finest!
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:18:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 9:23:35 AM EDT by fxntime]

Originally Posted By Falar:
Glocks tend to be polarizing, you either love them or hate them. I fall into the "hate" camp. I hate the grip, I hate the sights, I don't want my gun exploding on me and I don't want a .45 with +P ammo to weigh less than 30oz, and I don't want a gun without an external hammer. Also, Glock fans are always trying to make every other make of hangun out to be extremely unreliable, like the poster above who claimed to have 2 new SA 1911s jam every 4 or 5 rounds. That is pure BS, plain and simple. No gun commercially sold can get away with such poor QC and be a successful product.


Actually, I can believe that SA could have an issue with reliability with some of their 1911s, their extractors are sucko, usually are not tensioned properly, their mags are hit and miss, and I've personally owned NIB one's that the main recoil spring went south on in just a few mags. [someone probably did not heat treat them correctly].

FWIW, I like the 1911 design very much and probably own more of them then the vast majority on this site, but there are some crappy renditions of them out there with lousy parts and poor QC.

Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:21:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:
<<<<<<<<<<




Yea, but your an ass face
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:22:02 AM EDT
height=8
like the poster above who claimed to have 2 new SA 1911s jam every 4 or 5 rounds. That is pure BS, plain and simple


I was the original poster with the Springfields and you can believe what you will but it is absolutely true. I have no vested interest in one handgun being praised over another, I simply told a true story to illustrate how I became a fan of the Glock 21.

height=8
No gun commercially sold can get away with such poor QC and be a successful product.


If you don't believe that a good company can have quality issues then I suggest you mosey over to a 1911 forum and look up comments on the Sig. About 80% of the people will tell you they had to send their GSRs back for tweaking (I was not one of the, mine worked well straight from the box).
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