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Posted: 6/17/2009 2:43:16 PM EST
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:44:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:45:37 PM EST
a pig taken from the last 30 seconds of THIS
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:47:30 PM EST
how is he a hypocrite?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:48:01 PM EST
Oh well after seeing that, it makes perfect sense.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:48:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 2:48:30 PM EST by DarkCharisma]
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:48:43 PM EST
We only bash muslims here on ARFCOM Oh and atheists
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:49:47 PM EST
For someone who does not like beck, you sure seem to be spending alot of time posting about him.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:51:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:52:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.

Hell thats 90% of ARFCOM
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:52:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.


OK, such as? Can you find me scriptural doctrine from either the Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants that supports this, or is your evidence strictly anecdotal?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:52:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.


yeah, so?

all religions are equally absurd to me.

I don't fault anyone for their particular flavor.


Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:53:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.


Sounds like you should just move to a place that better suits your lifestyle.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:55:22 PM EST
I too am curious as to what you seem to think the LDS Church runs in the state. People in the state legislature represent their voting base. So of course some of the doctrine of the Church shows thru in bills and laws. But as you may have heard the "Zion curtain" is falling and the state is becoming more relaxed in many ways. I have been here for 20 years and you should have seen it in the 80's.

So how again does the Church run the state and how is Beck a hypocrite?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:56:23 PM EST
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:58:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.


I am not a former member of the church and I dont claim to be. It is known that just about every member of the state government is a member of the church, and the government often meets with the church to get approval before passing laws. The liquor laws are a prime example. Liquor is regulated by the DABC which its members are appointed. Every single one of the DABC board members are part of the church. It is no different than having an local government organization to regulate firearms and appoint nothing more than anti gun liberals that have never shot a firearm in their lives.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:59:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Your avatar freaks me out. Really. It is disturbing. Anyways, on topic...

I grew up (mostly) in southern Idaho, I was the only non-Mormon kid on my highschool cross country team. I was one of the only non-Mormons in my highschool. There is no love between me and the LDS church, or most any other Christian church for that matter. I hate when people try to convert others to there beliefs, among other things that I find annoying or disturbing about the LDS church. That all said, if I am going to be surrounded by goyim than Mormons are really not bad at all. As a whole they are conservative, hard working, and good people in my experience. I appreciate their culture for what it is, and if there was a group of religious people who were going to control the local government, then after Jews (not that I am biased ) Mormons would be my pick. You ought to consider yourself lucky given the other options you have. The stereotype LACs (Liberal Atheist Californians) could control your state. Consider youself blessed.

-Ben
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 2:59:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.
I'll say this much, there's no gambling, weakened beer, state liquor stores, strip clubs (real, nasty ones, anyway) no smoking anywhere, bars close so early the party hasn't even started yet... etc. All typical of a hyper religious state. Although I'm not sure these restrictions are unique to the LDS church. My guess is that any state with a very religious population will have similar restrictions.

Good thing is, I'm willing to endure the blue codes for the comparatively low crime rate. And they mostly vote conservative.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:00:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.


ok, so your anti LDS, who cares, NEW member, trying to stir up she-Ite go pick on nancy pelosi, shes a good Catholic who denounces christians and Votes PRO ABORTION..

or Teddy Kennedy, you know, someone who really matters in the over all scheme of things happeing today...


OR Franks and Dodds involvments in fannie and freddie debacal
or Congressmen Johnson with the 10k in his freezer no one wants to talk about or
charges against Rangel on Tax fraud,,or Geithners tax issues or the LIES OBAMA TOLD ME pin head.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:01:56 PM EST
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:02:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:03:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.
Beck seems like more of a 'little L' libertarian in that he doesn't subscribe to EVERYTHING the Libertarian party preaches. I'm sure just about everyone will split with their party on one issue or another. How exactly does that make one a hypocrite?

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:04:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Your avatar freaks me out. Really. It is disturbing. Anyways, on topic...

I grew up (mostly) in southern Idaho, I was the only non-Mormon kid on my highschool cross country team. I was one of the only non-Mormons in my highschool. There is no love between me and the LDS church, or most any other Christian church for that matter. I hate when people try to convert others to there beliefs, among other things that I find annoying or disturbing about the LDS church. That all said, if I am going to be surrounded by goyim than Mormons are really not bad at all. As a whole they are conservative, hard working, and good people in my experience. I appreciate their culture for what it is, and if there was a group of religious people who were going to control the local government, then after Jews (not that I am biased ) Mormons would be my pick. You ought to consider yourself lucky given the other options you have. The stereotype LACs (Liberal Atheist Californians) could control your state. Consider youself blessed.

-Ben


you are exactly right, in fact I dont see much difference between the two as far as government control is concerned. But they are good, hard working "compassionate conservative" people for the most part
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:04:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?


So move to San Francisco, get drunk and find a nice guy.
Or are they holding you hostage too ??
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:05:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.


thank you, exactly.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:06:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By TacticalMOLONLABE:
We only bash muslims here on ARFCOM Oh and atheists


You know if you are so dedicated to being an atheist, you sure pretend you're on the cross a lot. No one wants you to be a martyr, but you seek it in every thread I have ever seen about religion.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:07:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By crossedsabres:
Originally Posted By TacticalMOLONLABE:
We only bash muslims here on ARFCOM Oh and atheists


You know if you are so dedicated to being an atheist, you sure pretend you're on the cross a lot. No one wants you to be a martyr, but you seek it in every thread I have ever seen about religion.

Nah I have converted to Islam
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:07:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.


I am not a former member of the church and I dont claim to be.

Cool, carry on.

It is known that just about every member of the state government is a member of the church,

Yep, considering 60% of the population is LDS in some form, this is just statistics.

and the government often meets with the church to get approval before passing laws.

No, you're wrong.

The liquor laws are a prime example. Liquor is regulated by the DABC which its members are appointed. Every single one of the DABC board members are part of the church.

Again, statistics. When 60% of the population is something, chances are offices are going to be appointed from that population.

It is no different than having an local government organization to regulate firearms and appoint nothing more than anti gun liberals that have never shot a firearm in their lives.


Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:08:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Your avatar freaks me out. Really. It is disturbing. Anyways, on topic...

I grew up (mostly) in southern Idaho, I was the only non-Mormon kid on my highschool cross country team. I was one of the only non-Mormons in my highschool. There is no love between me and the LDS church, or most any other Christian church for that matter. I hate when people try to convert others to there beliefs, among other things that I find annoying or disturbing about the LDS church. That all said, if I am going to be surrounded by goyim than Mormons are really not bad at all. As a whole they are conservative, hard working, and good people in my experience. I appreciate their culture for what it is, and if there was a group of religious people who were going to control the local government, then after Jews (not that I am biased ) Mormons would be my pick. You ought to consider yourself lucky given the other options you have. The stereotype LACs (Liberal Atheist Californians) could control your state. Consider youself blessed.

-Ben


you are exactly right, in fact I dont see much difference between the two as far as government control is concerned. But they are good, hard working "compassionate conservative" people for the most part


You don't know religious control of a state while living in Utah. You ought to spend some time in Israel...

-Ben
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:08:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bed_Head:

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.
Beck seems like more of a 'little L' libertarian in that he doesn't subscribe to EVERYTHING the Libertarian party preaches. I'm sure just about everyone will split with their party on one issue or another. How exactly does that make one a hypocrite?



yeah your right, Im sure you can be libertarian and a dedicated member of the nation of islam as well.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:09:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By Bed_Head:

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.
Beck seems like more of a 'little L' libertarian in that he doesn't subscribe to EVERYTHING the Libertarian party preaches. I'm sure just about everyone will split with their party on one issue or another. How exactly does that make one a hypocrite?



yeah your right, Im sure you can be libertarian and a dedicated member of the nation of islam as well.


ALLAHU AKBAR
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:09:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.
I'll say this much, there's no gambling, weakened beer, state liquor stores, strip clubs (real, nasty ones, anyway) no smoking anywhere, bars close so early the party hasn't even started yet... etc. All typical of a hyper religious state. Although I'm not sure these restrictions are unique to the LDS church. My guess is that any state with a very religious population will have similar restrictions.

Good thing is, I'm willing to endure the blue codes for the comparatively low crime rate. And they mostly vote conservative.



You must be in UT county. Leave UT county and liquor can be had on Sundays. FYI, this is not unique to UT.

There's no gambling in CA either, as well as many other states. Point being?

If there's a demand for raunchy strip clubs, they'd exist. However BYU undergrads generally don't make the best strippers.

I agree with you on the Smoking thing. It's a bit over the top. I don't smoke, but that's neither here nor there.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:10:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?
You can't do those things in Oklahoma either. Is that because of the Mormons also?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:10:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.


The LDS religion advocates higher education to the fullest, for men, women and children. It's in D&C somewhere. I can find it, if you'd like.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:11:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:

Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.
I'll say this much, there's no gambling, weakened beer, state liquor stores, strip clubs (real, nasty ones, anyway) no smoking anywhere, bars close so early the party hasn't even started yet... etc. All typical of a hyper religious state. Although I'm not sure these restrictions are unique to the LDS church. My guess is that any state with a very religious population will have similar restrictions.

Good thing is, I'm willing to endure the blue codes for the comparatively low crime rate. And they mostly vote conservative.



You must be in UT county. Leave UT county and liquor can be had on Sundays. FYI, this is not unique to UT.

There's no gambling in CA either, as well as many other states. Point being?

If there's a demand for raunchy strip clubs, they'd exist. However BYU undergrads generally don't make the best strippers.

I agree with you on the Smoking thing. It's a bit over the top. I don't smoke, but that's neither here nor there.

Hell in CT you cant buy beer on Sunday
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:12:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.


I am not a former member of the church and I dont claim to be.

Cool, carry on.

It is known that just about every member of the state government is a member of the church,

Yep, considering 60% of the population is LDS in some form, this is just statistics.

and the government often meets with the church to get approval before passing laws.

No, you're wrong.

The liquor laws are a prime example. Liquor is regulated by the DABC which its members are appointed. Every single one of the DABC board members are part of the church.

Again, statistics. When 60% of the population is something, chances are offices are going to be appointed from that population.

It is no different than having an local government organization to regulate firearms and appoint nothing more than anti gun liberals that have never shot a firearm in their lives.



Hmmmmm
Representatives of the House, the Senate, bar owners, restaurants, the governor's office and the LDS Church hammered out the framework during intense closed-door negotiations this week.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:13:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.


The LDS religion advocates higher education to the fullest, for men, women and children. It's in D&C somewhere. I can find it, if you'd like.


Wouldn't apply to Glenn, as he was who he was before he was a Mormon. He's a relatively recent convert.

What I was trying to say is common sense and logic, and Mormonism are about as opposite on the scales as possible.

One could say that about most any religion, yes. But it's on a whole next level with Mormonism.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:13:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?


3.2% beer is only in grocery stores. You can walk into a liquor store and get regular strength beer––All the Asahi I've purchased has been 7.2%. Kegs can be ordered, I've seen them at various parties. So unless drunk kids are driving to WY and back on the I-80, they're probably around here somewhere.

Restrictions on buying alcohol on Sunday is not unique to Utah. Juab County allows liquor sales on Sundays. Move about 100mi. south and live in Nephi, be happy.

So all the conservative legislation bothers you? The fact that we have loose gun laws and relatively low taxes bothers you?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:13:49 PM EST
Huh?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:14:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By hondaciv:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.
Actually, that IS a bash of Mormonism. (don't get me wrong.... it's not a mean 'bash') But you make it sound like anyone who's intelligent and well read must actually be off their rocker to believe in the religion.

Perhaps you merely haven't researched the doctrines fully yet? Or perhaps you've listened too much to the anti-Mormon spins that have been regurgitated for so long by other denominations who are somewhat put-out by losing so many members to the LDS faith...

I found that the more I researched the LDS church (including its history and doctrines), the MORE I believed it. The key is to let go of the rhetoric, and search for yourself. I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I really don't want to get into a doctrine discussion in GD. I'm just pointing out that many of us have thought it through, in depth, and quite rationally (along with a very healthy dose of spiritual faith). I'm just sayin'.....
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:15:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 3:17:22 PM EST by sterling18]

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?
Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water. Knock yourself out sunshine. Just like the Good Old US Of A. Don't like it, get the hell out.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:15:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 3:18:28 PM EST by NoVaGator]
look...there are plenty of truly religious people in this nation that want you to think that they're conservative....but they're not....there are many psuedo-conservative Christians on this site and many in office. Our last President was one of them. In Muslim countries the're called Islamists. We don't have a name for them here.

But in Beck's case, I think his Mormonism is more of a facade than his conservatism.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:15:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?
Don't like the local laws, you're free to leave. From what you're looking for, it can be found in abundance in Kalifornia. Enjoy yourself.

I left NY because of the high taxes, rising crime rate, low quality of living, high cost of living, typical liberal government, anti-gun, need I go on. You want a kegger, knock yourself out. Oh by the way, you can't smoke indoors in NY, NJ and I believe CT now.

Just incase you didn't know which direction, you take I-80 West until you hit water.



Correct
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:15:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.


The LDS religion advocates higher education to the fullest, for men, women and children. It's in D&C somewhere. I can find it, if you'd like.


Wouldn't apply to Glenn, as he was who he was before he was a Mormon. He's a relatively recent convert.

What I was trying to say is common sense and logic, and Mormonism are about as opposite on the scales as possible.

One could say that about most any religion, yes. But it's on a whole next level with Mormonism.


Both the University of Utah and BYU are predominantly LDS. Both are well-regarded universities. As I said before, the religion greatly advocates higher education.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:16:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
how is he a hypocrite?


he claims he is a libertarian and is for absolute freedom yet he belongs to a religion that believes in regulating just about everything they can in government.

Like?

Did you know alcoholic beverages are sold from state-owned stores in MT and PA too?

Is Senator Harry Reid, another LDSer, the same as Mitt Romney?

You have been proven wrong. Go grind your axe elsewhere.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:17:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.


I am not a former member of the church and I dont claim to be.

Cool, carry on.

It is known that just about every member of the state government is a member of the church,

Yep, considering 60% of the population is LDS in some form, this is just statistics.

and the government often meets with the church to get approval before passing laws.

No, you're wrong.

The liquor laws are a prime example. Liquor is regulated by the DABC which its members are appointed. Every single one of the DABC board members are part of the church.

Again, statistics. When 60% of the population is something, chances are offices are going to be appointed from that population.

It is no different than having an local government organization to regulate firearms and appoint nothing more than anti gun liberals that have never shot a firearm in their lives.



Hmmmmm
Representatives of the House, the Senate, bar owners, restaurants, the governor's office and the LDS Church hammered out the framework during intense closed-door negotiations this week.


Source and context of your last statement you quoted, please.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:17:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By larkinmusic:

Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?
You can't do those things in Oklahoma either. Is that because of the Mormons also?
Must be.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:17:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
I've always wondered, and I say this 100% to not be disrespectful, but how could Glenn be so smart, so well read, so in search of truth and believe in Mormonism at the same time.

That's not a bash of Mormonism. It's just they have some really really really bizarre beliefs.


If this is what you feel then, as a life long Mormon, might I kindly let you know that you have been ill informed.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:17:32 PM EST
Ok, I may be off here, but you live in a predominantly Mormon state, with a government that is representative of the population. This is what the government is suppose to do, make decisions as representatives of the people. MOVE
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:17:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I am also at a loss as to what you are prevented from doing in this State due to some Church-influenced bit of legislation.


buying full strength beer cold from the store? buying a keg? buying alcohol on sunday? I could include gay marriage if I wanted to open that barrel of worms. A better question would be, what piece of legislation in Utah isnt church influenced?


This is retarded.
Glenn Beck is a Hypocrite because there is no gay marriage in Utah?

You have low taxes and some of the best gun laws in the country. Some of us actually live in authoritarian commie hell holes. Most Maryland grocery aren't allowed to sell beer and in Montgomery County MD all the liqour is sold by county-owned stores that close early and aren't open Sundays.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 3:18:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
For the sake of not hijacking any more threads I am starting this one for people to direct their questions to me about the above. This is not a thread to bash the lds, I made a remark about them in earlier threads and I was warned not to say naughty things about them. So I am not going to say anything derogatory. Beck is a member of the LDS church. The LDS church basically runs the state of Utah, however Salt Lake City is predominately non LDS and has had a douche liberal mayor for about 20 years or so. I do not like Beck because I think he is kind of a hypocrite because of his religious beliefs. So feel free to flame me all you want or debate me on separation of church and state.


Care to elaborate on what specific parts of the state legislature are run by the Church, and how Beck is a hypocrite in comparison to the doctrine?

I'm not a practicing member of the LDS church so you're not stepping on my toes, but I'm curious to see why you feel the way you do.


I am not a former member of the church and I dont claim to be.

Cool, carry on.

It is known that just about every member of the state government is a member of the church,

Yep, considering 60% of the population is LDS in some form, this is just statistics.

and the government often meets with the church to get approval before passing laws.

No, you're wrong.

The liquor laws are a prime example. Liquor is regulated by the DABC which its members are appointed. Every single one of the DABC board members are part of the church.

Again, statistics. When 60% of the population is something, chances are offices are going to be appointed from that population.

It is no different than having an local government organization to regulate firearms and appoint nothing more than anti gun liberals that have never shot a firearm in their lives.



Hmmmmm
Representatives of the House, the Senate, bar owners, restaurants, the governor's office and the LDS Church hammered out the framework during intense closed-door negotiations this week.


1) Salt Lake County isn't 60% LDS. Not even close.
2) As time goes on, the disconnect and under representation of non-LDS to LDS representatives grows larger.
3) The government doesn't meet with the church before passing laws. The government IS the church, as it's comprised almost exclusively by members of the LDS church.
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