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Posted: 11/18/2001 2:27:46 PM EDT
Going to give the wife my Glock (21C) I need to pick a new Duty weapon. I was thinking H&K USP full size in .45ACP The Sigs dont feel good in my hand. H&K or Glock or Other. 45 is a MUST! and I cant use Single Action for duty. Price is not a restraint either.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 2:37:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 2:38:25 PM EDT
Replace with a 1911 or a Model 19. Yeah, I *know* I'm a stick in the mud.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:00:44 PM EDT
I would personally choose the HK USP feels good in the hand for me.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:02:40 PM EDT
USP-all the way. Sig a second choice, but HK first. Juggernaut
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:03:31 PM EDT
Dude if you're going to get a polymer .45 and like the USP why did you even think about the Glock? Go with the USP and purchase some LEO 12 round mags. Does it have to be double action only? If not the USP gives the benefit of double action first pull and single action follow ups. Don't let all the Glock guys tell you that you'll have to "retrain" yourself to shoot with two different shooting methods because of this option either. But make sure that your comfortable with it. And if you think that the double action on the HK is gritty (a lot of them are) then buy the match trigger group and forget about it.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:10:27 PM EDT
There's a good point about sticking with what you're trained in and keeping with a Glock. On the other hand if you don't mind retraining a bit I would go for the USP, especially if you can get LEO mags. The recoil is softer in with the USP, IMHO (I have both a G21 and a USP Tactical), and although you give up a round of mag capacity the grip isn't overly fat like the G21. I personally am a single-action junky so I like the cocked and locked option the USP offers but if you can't have that on duty, no prob just decock. The only semi-serious design flaw in the USP is the ambi mag release, I like a push button better. My $.02 dividend check...
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:14:32 PM EDT
It's too bad Sigs don't feel good to you. The P229 is the bomb. Go for the USP and never look at another Glock again.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:48:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:51:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 3:57:01 PM EDT
I have to give my .02 cents worth. I have a sig226 and a glock 22. At work I carry a HKUSP40 I prefer the glock over the HK but I love my sig dearly If I had the means to get a .45 I would get the Sig 220 but I don't so will stick with the two I already own. I have no experience with the HK 45 but the glock 20 and 21's I shot I didn't really like seemed alot thicker than my 22 I would say find someone with thew HK model you want and shoot it first to see how it feels to you. You know the feel of the glock but what every YOU are most comfortable with is the main concern. Both pistols are reliable and robust so I see that a s a non issue here. John
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 4:29:04 PM EDT
Get a SIG.... They RULE ! [url]www.sigtalk.com[/url] (soon to be merged with AR15.com when i get motivated to actually do something with my life [:D])
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 4:46:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2001 4:40:00 PM EDT by LAcop]
EASY choice for me....[size=6]GLOCK[/size=6]
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 4:50:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 5:42:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2001 5:35:48 PM EDT by Bob243]
If were my decision this would the my choices in order. 1 Sig P220 fit very well in my hand and also shot one well the first time I picked it up 2 SA or Kimber 1911 also fit very well in my hand, and shot one well the first time I picked it up. 3 HK USP40 Compact fit very well in my hand, the 45 are a bit big, but good weight. I am not picking on glock in any way shape or form, but I have yet to pick one up that feels comfortable in my hand. ~edited for spelling
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 6:54:55 PM EDT
If you liked your previous Glock, get a Glock.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 7:34:00 PM EDT
Mouse gun Mouse gun, is better than any I left my 45 in the house gun. I hope you had you wife try the gun and see if she can hit anything with it or would even carry a gun that large.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 8:54:55 PM EDT
HK USP rules.....
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 8:57:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 9:01:52 PM EDT
sig 229 .40 is great
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 9:27:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2001 9:21:58 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
It becomes obvious that a few of you didn't read the part where he said ".45 is a must." Personally, I'm lusting after a HK USP Tactical. The gun feels like it was made for my hand. It's absolutely perfect. I still need to shoot it before I start saving. However, the others who point out you should stick with the firing system your familiar with have a valid point. In a stress situation, it comes down to training, practice, and muscle memory. I've read too many stories about guys whos reactions were instinctual and they had several shots in a threat before they really had time to think about it, most recently from Masood Ayoob. They say it takes something like 5,000 plus repetitive motions to develop muscle memory, and that is key to performing in a situation where your life is on the line. If you've trained extensively with the Glock system, then I'd urge you to stay with it simply because it will be the same as your previous weapon and you won't run into the problem of not releasing your safety or other such glitch that might happen with the HK. It would take significant practice and repetition to get to a level where using the HK would be instinctual, and if you're willing to put that time in then I'd go with the HK. But if I were personally in your shoes and had to pick a duty sidearm, I'd want something I could perform with simply because I was intimately familiar with what I was using. It's like if you put a 1911 in my hand right now. I'd end up dead because in a stress situation the gun wouldn't go bang. My current systems (Glock Safe Action and SW99 DA/SA) are completely different, and neither of them have any sort of manual safety. So, it's less of a comment on the system and more upon my ability to use the system by instint. Either way, choose wisely. Since it's a duty sidearm your life may well depend upon it. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 9:32:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 9:36:58 PM EDT
I have an HK and a Glock, and I have to say, I prefer the Glock.
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 10:07:40 PM EDT
I, also a stick in the mud, say get a 1911 or clone...pat
Link Posted: 11/18/2001 10:14:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2001 10:07:27 PM EDT by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By brouhaha: You can shoot my USP Match .45 without the barrel weight. It will feel almost exactly the same. I think I'll be at the range this coming weekend if you're interested.
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I appreciate the offer, and would love to take you up on it. E-mail me a date and a time and I'll make sure I'm free. Any particualr ammo you suggest I pick up to put through it? I'll bring the SW99 if you've never shot the Walther P99 or S&W SW99 and want to try it out. God Bless Texas
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 1:14:44 AM EDT
During 7 years as a cop I carried 3 guns, all GLOCK. When it positively has to go bang every time, GLOCK there is NO substitute. In addition to the there amazing accuracy, combat proven reliability, and there stunning good looks, you can get 2 Glocks for the price of one Sig or HK.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 4:03:25 AM EDT
What do you people have against Beretta?
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 4:50:38 AM EDT
1911 is more accurate than sig glock or hk, get a double stack magazine with 13+ rounds, hell of a lot better gun. But however if you are used to the glock, maybe you should use it. -Chuck
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 6:34:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 6:39:01 AM EDT
Oh, good call. My bad.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 7:28:06 AM EDT
My wife loves the Glock 21C she going to carry it in a purse holster so the size dosnt matter. she has small hands but shot the 21 better than the 23. I have trained with 1911,glock,H&K USP single action only is out I probably go with the USP....first shot double second single. but if I find a good deal on another 21 I might go with that....thanks for the Imput guys. Sig feals nasty in my hand..I have extremly large hands even with an overmold it was nasty.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 8:51:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2001 8:44:27 AM EDT by Santyth]
Agh! Why doesn't anyone get this? [b][size=3]GLOCKS ARE SINGLE ACTION ONLY![/size=3][/b]
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 8:55:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Santyth: Agh! Why doesn't anyone get this? [b][size=3]GLOCKS ARE SINGLE ACTION ONLY![/size=3][/b]
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I argue this point a lot the answer I ge tis beacuse the Glock Company "SAYS" its D.A.O. pisses me off too.. My 1st choice for a duty weapon would be the Wilson Combat.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 9:01:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2001 8:54:18 AM EDT by Santyth]
They say that? Really? I appreciate Glocks and all, but that's really stupid of them. Dry fire one of those, then try to pull the trigger again without cycling the action. Wait, you can't? Wow! At least with a 1911 you can pull the hammer back again for a restrike. I'm not trying to turn this into another "Glock vs. 1911" thing, I'm just trying to say that carrying a Glock instead of 1911 [b]for the sole reason that the Glock is supposedly DAO[/b] is bogus. Equally bogus if your department mandates no single actions but lets you carry Glock. Bah. Edited to clarify that I meant Glock was stupid for calling their stuff DAO.
Link Posted: 11/19/2001 11:18:23 PM EDT
Coming from a Glock, perhaps the USP40C with LEM trigger is a good choice? Or maybe wait until they offer it on the USP45F.
Link Posted: 2/17/2002 7:59:03 AM EDT
go for a Walther P99 or a Alchemy Spectre
Link Posted: 2/17/2002 8:14:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BURN: Going to give the wife my Glock (21C) I need to pick a new Duty weapon.
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I have a Glock 21. Can't beat having 13 rounds of 45ACP! I'd say stick with it. The new one's have even better ergonomics than before. Finger groves and thum rests. They also have a built in rail system for tactical lights and such. The model 21C comes factory ported!. Remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you are a patrol officer, you really have no need for external safeties. Just get one of those new Safariland Level 4, yes 4!, holsters and start practicing. In any event, shoot all of the weapons you are considering. One well placed shot is worth more than 4 missed ones, and people shoot differently with different guns. As for giving the old Model 21 to your wife, are you sure she can handle it. Not be sexist, but that is one heck of a double stack grip on that gun. It's borderline even for me at 6ft 215lbs. But those are just my thoughts. Good luck and stay safe!
Link Posted: 2/17/2002 10:38:21 AM EDT
Is the need for .45 personal preference or department mandate? If it's personal preference, I'd go with the Glock 20. No, it's not the 'ultimate handgun', but it's pretty darn good for a duty gun. Blazer 200 grain fmj is a pretty soft-shooting practice load, and you can run a 175-grain Silvertip at 1200+ fps for duty. Proload also has a 155-grain BHP @ 1350 fps or a 180-grain BHP @ 1200 fps. Any of those would make an outstanding duty load, with better tactical penetration than the .45. My department issues a Glock 21 with Federal 230-grain +P bonded-core LE only tactical ammo. Last shooting we had at a bad guy in an old truck, didn't penetrate very consistently. 10mm has more energy and a smaller cross section, seems to punch through things better. If the department says it has to be .45, I'd stick with the Glock. I love my P226 in .40, but I had a lot of bad luck with Sig 220's in .45. Went through six department 220's when we used to issue them before I got one that actually worked.
Link Posted: 2/17/2002 10:54:12 AM EDT
[size=6]HECKLER & KOCH[/size=6]
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