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Posted: 5/14/2004 6:43:43 AM EST
...the whole thing is fake??

I have no proof of anything, just a weird feeling in my gut.


What we know (i.e. have been told so far - we don't KNOW anything)

    He was travelling around Iraq unguarded. Suicidally stupid.

    Mousaui (20th hijacker ) had his password

    His father is RABIDLY anti-war and anti-Bush

    He is reportedly pro war pro Bush.

    The Dems are making hay out of the Abu Graib non-event.

    Berg had a recent Israeli stamp in his passport, but told his parents he hadn't been there in quite some time.

    Everyone had detained him, no one had detained him.

    The "video tape" is pretty fuzzy

    Supposedly they found his body.

    His killer has (almost) positively been identified as al Whackoffcari.



And the weirdness goes on from there.

I work in radio and the news guys tell me medical doctors are saying his death was faked.

Was he Mossad? Or CIA? Or just an idealistic dummy?

Somehow, I doubt were ever gonna know the truth.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:45:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 6:45:37 AM EST by NewbHunter]
What is the reasoning behind these doctors thinking it was faked?
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:48:04 AM EST
I've been thinking ALOT about this as well. I just can't see anybody being this naive as to walk around in a combat zone in iraq, as well as being jewish, not to mention unarmed. I really don't have a guess as to the truth in all of this, but I bet there's more to it than we will ever know.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:48:48 AM EST
All of the above.....And let our imagination goes wild.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:51:42 AM EST
it would be quite a trick, considering they found his body.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:53:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
What is the reasoning behind these doctors thinking it was faked?



I just got it in part from the news guy here at the radio station, but they cite insufficient blood flow.

It should have been a blood bath when severring all the arteries in the neck. Which kinda makes sense, I guess. I'm no doctor.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:56:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:02:10 AM EST
I just heard on FOXNEWS that he was picked up with a copy of the Koran and some anti-semitic materials. Pretty wierd for someone of the Jewish faith.

Although...look at that Johnny Walker Lindh douchebag

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:02:34 AM EST
Where did those muslims get the orange jump suit for him? I found that a bit odd..... looks like a prison uniform like we'd give prisoners in this country. Supposedly he had a Koran & anti-semitic material with him.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:03:08 AM EST
Watching the Russian officer get it by the Muslims in Chechnya, there was no "bloodbath." The blood pooled out of the neck, but there was no big exciting spray or anything. Watching the Berg video, it was too dark for me to see... I don't think it was faked.
Scott
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:04:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from garandman -

Was he Mossad? Or CIA?

How does that figure into a possible 'faked death'?

Do we think that the Mossad or the CIA is linked in some manner to al Qaeda?

Eric The(Quizical)Hun



No.

It just seems this kid had ALOT going for him, not some flower child idealogue. I'm thinking he was there on "business."

And I don't mean free enterprise.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:05:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 7:05:40 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By jt325i:
. Supposedly he had a Koran & anti-semitic material with him.



Cover. Or planted by that animal al Zawqari.



Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:09:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 7:10:13 AM EST by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By jt325i:
Where did those muslims get the orange jump suit for him? I found that a bit odd..... looks like a prison uniform like we'd give prisoners in this country. Supposedly he had a Koran & anti-semitic material with him.



Well, apparently other prisoners had the orange jump suits as well. Specifically, many POW's from GW1 had orange jump suits on IIRC. I don't find that odd at all. If the CIA or someone else was really trying to fake a death, do you think they'd be dumb enough to overlook anything that obvious?

Second, I find this anti-semitic, and Koran thing to be interesting. Was this material found on him when the FBI interviewed/detained him? Or was it found on his body after he was murdered? If after, don't you think that it's possible that his killers planted it? I thought I heard on a radio broadcast that both Berg and Pearl were practicing Jews too.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:14:40 AM EST
have you seen the whole video?
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:15:51 AM EST
I wonder if he might have been an Arab "sympathizer" or a convert-in-progress, going over there to help the people he identified with.
AQ might have blundered and just grabbed and killed thed first westerner they saw not knowing he was anti-war.

CKMorley
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:16:07 AM EST
Of course if I was wandering arund in a war zone with no protection team, etc....Jewish or not...maybe I'd just throw a little anti-sementic literature in my hip pocket so if I was detained by the "other side" I might look a bit better to them. Stands to reason to me... but it's about all that does in this story.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:22:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
have you seen the whole video?




I think SOMEONE is likely dead (AND that the Arats who did this are REALLY bad at making a video)

I just think there's more to the story.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:33:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 7:35:55 AM EST by Mr_Fabulous]




This ultra modern aluminum foil hat will protect you from the brain scanning rays of the NSA, certain 'auction' websites, fbi.com, and CIA satellites that are monitoring your subversive thoughts. You may not have considered this before, but your lead lined hat is worthless if you can give away your secrets to the very people most dangerous to you - your government!

The PFHT contains space age materials, and is guaranteed to work for you. All government I/O is cut off. It's like a firewall for your brain.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:38:51 AM EST
My suspicion is that he was a genuinely decent guy who thought that if he was nice to everyone else, they’d be nice to him.

And he was wrong!!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:40:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By iveseenalittleontv:
...... they found his body.



DAMN......you "ANTI-Conspiracy" types ALWAYS have a way of screwing things up!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:40:49 AM EST
In my opinion the poor guy was a decent kid raised by hippies. He was completely unprepared for the real world, and he paid a horrible price for it.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:41:15 AM EST
Here's a real numbnuts conspiracy theory tin-foil guy for you to read.

genmay.com/showthread.php?t=354134

Standard issue chair, ffs.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:42:18 AM EST
There are alot of coincidences here. I am not sure things are as they seem on atleast some levels.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:46:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:49:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:50:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:50:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
have you seen the whole video?



I have seen the whole video, thought I skipped the speech part. Berg was pushed down and off the camera, so it would be easy to fake the cutting part. One would think there would be a bit more blood on the face even if there were no spray and splatter.

The real mystery for me is the jump suit. I don't think real terrorists will bother with such nicety.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:50:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By sniperx:
I think he looks too comfortable with the situation in the first part of the film.
And his facial hair??? I think there is more to it




They held him for almost a month, he would of looked adjusted and scruffy.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:51:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By jt325i:
Where did those muslims get the orange jump suit for him? I found that a bit odd..... looks like a prison uniform like we'd give prisoners in this country. Supposedly he had a Koran & anti-semitic material with him.



Well, apparently other prisoners had the orange jump suits as well. Specifically, many POW's from GW1 had orange jump suits on IIRC. I don't find that odd at all. If the CIA or someone else was really trying to fake a death, do you think they'd be dumb enough to overlook anything that obvious?

Second, I find this anti-semitic, and Koran thing to be interesting. Was this material found on him when the FBI interviewed/detained him? Or was it found on his body after he was murdered? If after, don't you think that it's possible that his killers planted it? I thought I heard on a radio broadcast that both Berg and Pearl were practicing Jews too.



Kind of like the suggestions here of burying muslims in pig skins or shooting them with pig-lubed ammunition?

I agree with those, by the way!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:52:29 AM EST
I'm not suggesting anything one way or another here. Just making a simple observation. But...

...now that I think back about watching the video, and I think back about the pictures that I saw of Nick Berg sitting there waiting to be executed it crossed my mind that he didn't look anything like his up close picture that was posted on FOX yesterday or the day before. I'm not saying it wasn't him in the video, but I just really didn't pay any attention to it before because I attributed that to the fact that he had a beard in the video and the fact that it was blurry. Anyone else think the same thing?
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:53:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 7:54:06 AM EST by Mr_Fabulous]
This is getting silly. PLEASE EXPLAIN THE BODY. Why would you fake a murder, then dump his dead body. I feel my IQ going down reading this BS
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:53:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:56:25 AM EST
It was staged to take down the heat from the prison scandal.


Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:57:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By sniperx:
I think he looks too comfortable with the situation in the first part of the film.
And his facial hair??? I think there is more to it



My first thought when I saw the video was at the beginning he did seem a bit calm and I figured he was most likely drugged...
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:05:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By DarkStar:

Originally Posted By sniperx:
I think he looks too comfortable with the situation in the first part of the film.
And his facial hair??? I think there is more to it



My first thought when I saw the video was at the beginning he did seem a bit calm and I figured he was most likely drugged...



Well, there is something else too. I watched the video a few times and was interested to see how little he struggled really. Yes, I know he was bound, but I've seen two vids of Russian conscripts getting their throats cut by Chechens, and they made ALOT more noise and squirmed and struggled more than Berg did. At first I thought, well he is just resigned to his fate and he took it like a man, but now I can't help but wonder if he was either drugged, or was a convert who thought he was getting martyred or something. I still think the vid is real, you can see that they have a hard time cutting through his spine when they take the head off, but I have to wonder why he didn't struggle more...
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:11:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:

Originally Posted By DarkStar:

Originally Posted By sniperx:
I think he looks too comfortable with the situation in the first part of the film.
And his facial hair??? I think there is more to it



My first thought when I saw the video was at the beginning he did seem a bit calm and I figured he was most likely drugged...



Well, there is something else too. I watched the video a few times and was interested to see how little he struggled really. Yes, I know he was bound, but I've seen two vids of Russian conscripts getting their throats cut by Chechens, and they made ALOT more noise and squirmed and struggled more than Berg did. At first I thought, well he is just resigned to his fate and he took it like a man, but now I can't help but wonder if he was either drugged, or was a convert who thought he was getting martyred or something. I still think the vid is real, you can see that they have a hard time cutting through his spine when they take the head off, but I have to wonder why he didn't struggle more...



Well, I would bet that he was drugged or something. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I remember the one other chechen vid and that guy looked drugged for sure. He hardly struggled and didn't even really scream. Of course that was higher image quality too.

Despite the fact that I don't believe it was faked, there are some odd things about this story.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:11:35 AM EST
Drugged. They tried to drug Daniel Pearl but he wouldn't let them..or so the story goes.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:14:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:23:17 AM EST by nightstalker]

Originally Posted By Mr_Fabulous:
This is getting silly. PLEASE EXPLAIN THE BODY. Why would you fake a murder, then dump his dead body. I feel my IQ going down reading this BS



head-less I'm assuming although I've found no specific accounts to that effect.

edit: The reports DO say headless. I'm wondering if the doubters have substance WHY isn't there MORE denial from the ARAB press and organizations rather than their belated condemnations (like CAIR). It seems they are not willing to take the ball and run with it re: the claim that it is faked, CIA, not Berg, orange jumpsuit, not enough blood, not enough struggle etc.

The first claims (according to CIA) were made via an ARAB web-site that was showing the video. It is shut down. I guess it could have been a CIA fronted ARAB web-site that no one in the ARAB world was on to.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:20:36 AM EST
His bio in now way points to CIA or Mosaad.
Did he become an agent while on Spring Break?
It just doesn't add up.

Maybe, just maybe, he was a guy in Iraq looking for opportunity, and just found trouble.

The virulently anti-war dad and the Mousaoui Email link would lead me AWAY from any friendly spy link, and towards the enemy.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:23:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:26:33 AM EST by The_Macallan]
This truly has to be one of the dumbest conversations I've ever seen here.


1) There was PLENTY of blood by the time they finally finished sawing through Mr. Berg's neck.
They started cutting the SIDE of his neck where it's mostly muscles - trapezius, SCM, scalenes etc. No major blood vessels there. Then they went to the front and opened his larynx - again missing the carotid artery and jugular vein. Only after much hacking did they finally get the major vessels - and there WAS a lot of blood by the time the Satanists were finished with their human sacrifice.

2) His body was moving not "being moved" but actually moving itself.
While he was being slaughtered his body was held down by at LEAST three animals - one on each leg and one on his back. He couldn't kick or roll (like the Chechen Russian), he couldn't move his arms or turn his head. So the ONLY kinds of movements possible were from his entire torso flinching - and his abdomen WAS flexing and there was no way those movements could have been faked on a cadaver.

3) The gutteral sounds of screaming and gasping did not sound "faked".

4) A head WAS severed and a body WAS found and it WAS positively identified as Mr. Berg.

5) If ANYONE was going to be picked up and executed by MoslemMaggots over there it would CERTAINLY be a loner, naive, unarmed Jew.

6) Was Daniel Pearl's beheading faked too? So why is Mr. Berg's then so questionable?


I wonder if the questions being raised about whether Mr. Berg's slaughter is real are some sort of subconscious psychological coping mechanism going on in some people to deny the stark reality of what really happened and how savage, inhuman and evil our enemy really is.

It's like the leftist pacifists - they just can't fathom how evil some people really are, and so they trick themselves into denying reality just to make themselves sleep better believing there really AREN'T people so evil out there and that it's really all just a political lie.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:28:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:29:43 AM EST by SgtKiwi]
Personally I believe a few things about this:

1) An American got their head cut off on that video

2) 5 Militant Muslims did it

3) Does anything else matter?

ETA: While I think there are alot of strange turns in this story, none of them change the above facts.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:29:11 AM EST
OK let me get this theory straight.

-Zionists and the CIA fake the video to draw heat from the prison scandel.
-Then they realy murder the guy so his body will be found.
-or they dump some other headless body and hope no one is bright enough to attempt to identify the body with DNA or fingerprints
-The Zionists and the CIA then post the video to an Al Qieda website
-The Al Qieda guys reported to be in the video must be in it too because they never deny it was them.
-Nick burg's family and neighbors are all actors good enough for academy awards.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:29:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:40:45 AM EST by knightsar]
I had a lib where I work say the same thing. I think people would like to think that it was fake because the think no one could do such a thing to another human. Wake the Hell up!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:31:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:32:53 AM EST by SgtKiwi]

Originally Posted By Mr_Fabulous:
OK let me get this theory straight.

-Zionists and the CIA fake the video to draw heat from the prison scandel.
-Then they realy murder the guy so his body will be found.
-or they dump some other headless body and hope no one is bright enough to attempt to identify the body with DNA or fingerprints
-The Zionists and the CIA then post the video to an Al Qieda website
-The Al Qieda guys reported to be in the video must be in it too because they never deny it was them.
-Nick burg's family and neighbors are all actors good enough for academy awards.




I can't speak for everyone else, but what I am saying is weird to me is the fact that he was there, Jewish, alone, and unarmed. I just think there is more to THAT story. I do believe that he was murdered on that video by 5 militant muslim men. I just can't come to any rational reason why he went over there.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:34:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:35:10 AM EST by Mr_Fabulous]
Why is it hard to believe that a niave jewish kid went to Iraq and got murdered by fundamentalists.

It would have been amazing to me if it had turned out that he didn't have any problems.

The guy was lucky to survive as long as he did.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:40:21 AM EST
I'd like to see something besides a fifth-hand mutter about 'doctors think'.
Ask those "doctors" what effents detention, dehydration, and being sedated have on blood pressure.

Sure looked real to me, and PLENTY of blood pooling on the floor.
And a shitty compressed video, BGs in all black - how would we see the blood spurt, anyway?


DU is full of a hundred insane "theories" about this being staged. That some of those ideas / memes filter into the general population and that some of that population is susceptible to doubt is no surprise.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:41:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
This truly has to be one of the dumbest conversations I've ever seen here.



Well that sums it up for me, and I agree whole heartedly with the rest of the post also. For all those people out there (I know that most of us "here" are not those people) who think what America is doing is wrong, I think they should have to see this horrific murder in it's entirety. Then try keep saying that it's is and was ok that these animals did this to their own people for fun.......and now ours
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:43:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mr_Fabulous:
Why is it hard to believe that a niave jewish kid went to Iraq and got murdered by fundamentalists.

murdered?..not hard for me to believe. Jewish kid going to iraq right now?...Dumb on so many levels, that I think there's more to it. I am not trying to diminish the fact that he was an American and he was brutally murdered for that fact.

It would have been amazing to me if it had turned out that he didn't have any problems.


Yeah, that would have amazed me too.

The guy was lucky to survive as long as he did.

Agree there as well.


Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:48:08 AM EST

You conspiracy theory guys crack me up. You come up with the most convoluted unbelieveable stuff that would give the best fiction writers a run for their money. Nick Berg was buried today. Fingerprints and DNA conclusively prove it was Nick Berg. What is so hard to believe about an American detainee being executed by terrorists? What evidence do you have re: the Mossad, CIA, Al Qaeda, the Family etc being in cohoots to fabricate the story?

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:50:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scottman:
Watching the Russian officer get it by the Muslims in Chechnya, there was no "bloodbath." The blood pooled out of the neck, but there was no big exciting spray or anything. Watching the Berg video, it was too dark for me to see... I don't think it was faked.
Scott



But in Kill Bill the blood shoots up like a geyser.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:54:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:55:11 AM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
have you seen the whole video?



I have and the one part seemed like the "normal" amount of blood flow for the wound being administered.

Stiill is/ was a crappy vid. and the soundtrack was all messed up.
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