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Posted: 8/21/2006 8:52:31 AM EDT
...do not collect $200.....


Judge not moved by man's gesture apology
August 18, 2006

VALPARAISO, Ind. --A judge was not moved by a man's apology for cursing and making an obscene gesture in court, sentencing him to 10 days in jail.

"This 'apology' is hardly calculated to impress this court with the defendant's contrition," Porter Superior Court Judge David Chidester wrote in his order Thursday.

Chidester said he sentenced Jonathan Wilson, 31, to more jail time because the San Pierre man continues to try to persuade the court to throw out a speeding ticket.

Wilson was ticketed June 2 for driving 70 mph in a 55 mph zone on Indiana 49. On Tuesday, he tried to persuade Chidester to dismiss the ticket. When the judge didn't, Wilson made his outburst in court.

Chidester told Wilson he could avoid a contempt of court charge by writing an apology that convinces the judge that the man understands why he was found guilty and also that the correct way to challenge a verdict is through an appeal.

In the letter, faxed from the jail late Wednesday, Wilson apologized for disrupting the courtroom with his language and gesture. He then stated that he did not understand why he was found guilty, adding, "If the judge believes his sentence is fair and impartial, I have no choice but (to) follow his orders."

Chidester said Wilson came to court seeking a confrontation. Wilson was found sleeping in the courtroom before business began and when awakened, confronted security, Chidester said.

Chidester said Wilson failed to take responsibility for his actions and that not punishing him would show contempt for the law.

"Defendant's actions and words were a threat to the administration of justice," Chidester wrote.

Wilson had been facing no more than a fine for the speeding ticket before his outburst. Wilson is set to be released Aug. 24. He also was ordered to pay a $200 fine, $109 in court costs and had his license suspended for a year.


Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:53:34 AM EDT
[#1]
Not surprising.  You can't even wear shorts into most courtrooms without being in contempt.  The judge can do just about whatever he wants if he doesn't like you.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:58:44 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
Not surprising.  You can't even wear shorts into most courtrooms without being in contempt.  The judge can do just about whatever he wants if he doesn't like you.


In most of the courtrooms around here, people dress like gangsta thugs or eight year old boys and girls (t-shirt, shorts, sneakers). Judges don't even look twice at that any more.

And that's just what the jury pool wears!

Big diff between wearing inappropriate clothes and openly insulting the judge w/ an obscene gesture, IMO.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:10:57 AM EDT
[#3]
A woman got sent to jail in are courthouse because she had a sleeveless dress on and on her are was a tattoo with a middle finger and around the finger it said "Phuck the police and there Rules!" It was funny because she got 14 days for it!!

Forgot to add she was in court for being belligerent to an officer!!

If you are not dressed inapproetly in are courthouse your asked to leave or take to the jail upstairs.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:13:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Duh! We shouldn't be surprised by the judge's reaction. If you let a guy get away with this, where do you draw the line? Let the next guy flip over a table? Let him throw a chair if he doesn't hurt anyone? I think that it sends an appropriate message.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:13:19 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Not surprising.  You can't even wear shorts into most courtrooms without being in contempt.  The judge can do just about whatever he wants if he doesn't like you.


In most of the courtrooms around here, people dress like gangsta thugs or eight year old boys and girls (t-shirt, shorts, sneakers). Judges don't even look twice at that any more.

And that's just what the jury pool wears!

Big diff between wearing inappropriate clothes and openly insulting the judge w/ an obscene gesture, IMO.


I agree, definitely.  I think if a person wants to represent themselves by wearing shorts and/or gangster clothes they should be allowed to, but I was just pointing out that the bar was pretty low to be held in contempt.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:08:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Good thing there's a difference between Contempt and Disgust. Otherwise I'd be writing this from a cell.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:14:25 AM EDT
[#7]
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?

Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:20:34 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



Free speech ends at the courtroom door.  Never, EVER, screw with a judge in his own courtroom.  You can be found in contempt for almost anything.

CO
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:22:46 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



You can be fined for disrespecting a police officer, if the gossip I heard was true.

Then again, on one of CourtTV's new shows 'Party Police' () that I saw in passing, a boater's passenger gave the police the finger, then was beligerent and got hauled off in the sheriff's launch . . . so . . . it may not be 'illegal' but you can expect to pay the price for exercising your rights in such a fashion.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:25:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Legal Darwinian... The guy got what he deserved. Hopefully it happened in front of a packed courtroom.

He'll probably be "man of the week" on his jail wing, though, for "sticking it to the man!" Yeah..
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:25:51 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
Free speech ends at the courtroom door.  Never, EVER, screw with a judge in his own courtroom.  You can be found in contempt for almost anything.

CO


Yup... when you are in a judge's court room, they are GOD. Period! I think that judges have WAY too much power today. And yet, so many use their power to turn REAL criminals loose time and time again before they've served a proper sentence. How many stories have we heard about judges turning pedofiles loose early, only for the non-rehabilitated child molester to offend again?

ETA: Your desire to exercise your Constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech will get you in deeper trouble than if you actually BREAK THE LAW.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:26:19 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



You can be fined for disrespecting a police officer, if the gossip I heard was true.

Then again, on one of CourtTV's new shows 'Party Police' () that I saw in passing, a boater's passenger gave the police the finger, then was beligerent and got hauled off in the sheriff's launch . . . so . . . it may not be 'illegal' but you can expect to pay the price for exercising your rights in such a fashion.


Ah yes, the whole "win the battle, but lose the war" thing.

Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:29:47 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



Free speech ends at the courtroom door.  Never, EVER, screw with a judge in his own courtroom.  You can be found in contempt for almost anything.

CO


This is correct.

Society has the right (and the responsibility) to demand respect for its rules (laws) and its magistrates.  If you show "contempt" for the court, you are showing contempt for the rules of society.

If you do that, society will put you in jail to punish you and, hopefully, teach you some respect and some manners.

It's not like this is something new, fellows.  Society has done these things since the beginning of history.


Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:41:16 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



Free speech ends at the courtroom door.  Never, EVER, screw with a judge in his own courtroom.  You can be found in contempt for almost anything.

CO


This is correct.

Society has the right (and the responsibility) to demand respect for its rules (laws) and its magistrates.  If you show "contempt" for the court, you are showing contempt for the rules of society.

If you do that, society will put you in jail to punish you and, hopefully, teach you some respect and some manners.

It's not like this is something new, fellows.  Society has done these things since the beginning of history.




While I don't disagree with much of your post, I hate the fact that so many judges who clearly deserve NO respect because of their bench-legislation antics or turning scum loose on a whim, demand to be respected by virtue of their office. I think that some judges have more of a God complex than doctor's. A doc can decide wether you live or die, but a judge can decide whether to make a living hell out of your life and make you wish you were dead.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:47:32 AM EDT
[#15]
I don't understand how some judges made it to the bench.

Some of the rulings and ect are just plain retarded.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:51:59 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
While I don't disagree with much of your post, I hate the fact that so many judges who clearly deserve NO respect because of their bench-legislation antics or turning scum loose on a whim, demand to be respected by virtue of their office. I think that some judges have more of a God complex than doctor's. A doc can decide wether you live or die, but a judge can decide whether to make a living hell out of your life and make you wish you were dead.


You are certainly correct that there are a lot of bad judges.

However, when you are in the military, you do not have the right to refuse to salute an officer because you don't think he is a good one.

You must salute any and all officers.  If you ask why, the Sgt. will explain that you are saluting the "Rank", not the individual.

The same applies to society's judges.  You must show respect in their courtroom.  If they are a bad judge, then the citizens have the right to get them removed from office.

But until they are removed, you will be required to show respect for the "office".
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:57:54 AM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



Free speech ends at the courtroom door.  Never, EVER, screw with a judge in his own courtroom.  You can be found in contempt for almost anything.

CO


SO the courts are no longer considered American Soil?

TXL
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 11:57:41 AM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I don't disagree with much of your post, I hate the fact that so many judges who clearly deserve NO respect because of their bench-legislation antics or turning scum loose on a whim, demand to be respected by virtue of their office. I think that some judges have more of a God complex than doctor's. A doc can decide wether you live or die, but a judge can decide whether to make a living hell out of your life and make you wish you were dead.


You are certainly correct that there are a lot of bad judges.

However, when you are in the military, you do not have the right to refuse to salute an officer because you don't think he is a good one.

You must salute any and all officers.  If you ask why, the Sgt. will explain that you are saluting the "Rank", not the individual.

The same applies to society's judges.  You must show respect in their courtroom.  If they are a bad judge, then the citizens have the right to get them removed from office.

But until they are removed, you will be required to show respect for the "office".

Thats a Great "ideal" but we live in a world with people not ideals. Judges have waay to much power in this world, and the only reason they do is becuase they "own" the law, they make the law, and they have Weapons to back it up.
Also, MOST judges are not Elected they are appointed, and literally answer to no one except other judges, what do you do about those crazy sons of bitches??
They are the last bastion of "monarchy" left in the otherwise democratic world, will they ever give up any of their power willingly? I dont think so, so why should i respect tyranny??
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#19]
During my divorce, my lawyer went to fill out somekind of legal form, then he discovered his pen didn't work. Then he said "Fucking piece of shit" (In a loud tone) and threw it in the trash so hard that it actually made a loud "clank"

I was truly surprised the judge said nothing, I guess the judge and my lawyer were friends, because it was a pretty disrespectful display if you ask me.

Luckly for me, the bitch didn't get much..
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 12:25:26 PM EDT
[#20]
The men in black have way too much power!
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 1:39:53 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

You are certainly correct that there are a lot of bad judges.

The same applies to society's judges.  You must show respect in their courtroom.  If they are a bad judge, then the citizens have the right to get them removed from office.


And I did just that. A judge recently made an outrageous ruling against me and I was advised to file a complaint with the Judicial Review Board, which I did. This judge was universally despised by every attorney I know and had already been shitcanned as mayor of a local suburb.

A few weeks later I get the complaint form back with a note saying that they cannot proceed because the judge is no longer on the bench. I called the courthouse and sure enough, he suddenly retired (after making it quite clear he intended to see me on the return date in December).

Apparently he had amassed so many complaints that he took early retirement rather than lose his pension.

One down ....
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 1:44:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Here's another finger to the judge story:

I was a cop in Minnesota.  Went to an every-weekend domestic.  Drunk bitch ran out naked (not that good to look at and sweaty).  We chased her and finally caught her.  She was hitting, biting, kicking.  Finally got her to jail, charged with resisting, PI, assaulting an officer.  In court, judge gave her a warning.  On the way out, he said something like, "young lady, you should change your actions."  She shot him a finger and he gave her 10 days.  
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:29:08 PM EDT
[#23]
For what its worth,  my buddy and his wife live in that town about a mile from that guy.  I sent them the link to the  Boston newspaper article.  The response was the guy's an idiot.   San Pierre's population is somewhere around 500 people.  

Funny thing is the local county newspaper in Indiana hasn't even carried the story , but Boston has.  

It's sure a small electronic world.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:36:25 PM EDT
[#24]
I can't believe the number of people in this thread that are basically endorsing ones "right" to flip a judge off?!?  

He got smacked down appropriately.  He was probably raised as a punk/thug with that shows no respect for anyone.  Good on the judge.

And then we turn around and wonder what has happened to common courtesy  and manners in this "civilized" society?

Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:43:41 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
Here's another finger to the judge story:

I was a cop in Minnesota.  Went to an every-weekend domestic.  Drunk bitch ran out naked (not that good to look at and sweaty).  We chased her and finally caught her.  She was hitting, biting, kicking.  Finally got her to jail, charged with resisting, PI, assaulting an officer.  In court, judge gave her a warning.  On the way out, he said something like, "young lady, you should change your actions."  She shot him a finger and he gave her 10 days.  


 
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:13:40 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
For what its worth,  my buddy and his wife live in that town about a mile from that guy.  I sent them the link to the  Boston newspaper article.  The response was the guy's an idiot.   San Pierre's population is somewhere around 500 people.  

Funny thing is the local county newspaper in Indiana hasn't even carried the story , but Boston has.  

It's sure a small electronic world.


It's probably some local big shot's son......
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:21:17 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:
Duh! We shouldn't be surprised by the judge's reaction. If you let a guy get away with this, where do you draw the line? Let the next guy flip over a table? Let him throw a chair if he doesn't hurt anyone? I think that it sends an appropriate message.


Well said. A wise judge told me that he makes his contempt decisions this way:

"If I were Joe Lunchbucket (who, by the way, owns the courthouse and pays the judge), sitting in the gallery, would my reaction be 'That's outrageous! Nobody should get away with acting like that in Court!'? If it would be, then I'll order the offender to show cause why he shouldn't be held in contempt. If the answer is no, and it's something I just happen to find personally offensive, I let it pass. After all, the point is not protecting my dignity, it's protecting the dignity of the robe, the process, and the people who are required to be in the courtroom."

Good judge, that guy.
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 4:22:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Saw a drunk stand up in court, when his name was called, and state, "lets get this shit over with." It did not go well for him.
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 4:27:17 PM EDT
[#29]
What an idiot. Outside the courtroom is the place to physically and verbally assault the judge.
Outside, he's just another man. Give him the beatdown.
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 4:30:01 PM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



Free speech ends at the courtroom door.  Never, EVER, screw with a judge in his own courtroom.  You can be found in contempt for almost anything.

CO


This is correct.

Society has the right (and the responsibility) to demand respect for its rules (laws) and its magistrates.  If you show "contempt" for the court, you are showing contempt for the rules of society.

If you do that, society will put you in jail to punish you and, hopefully, teach you some respect and some manners.

It's not like this is something new, fellows.  Society has done these things since the beginning of history.




+1

Link Posted: 8/25/2006 4:31:19 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



Oh yeah!
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 4:37:09 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Not surprising.  You can't even wear shorts into most courtrooms without being in contempt.  The judge can do just about whatever he wants if he doesn't like you.


In most of the courtrooms around here, people dress like gangsta thugs or eight year old boys and girls (t-shirt, shorts, sneakers). Judges don't even look twice at that any more.

And that's just what the jury pool wears!

Big diff between wearing inappropriate clothes and openly insulting the judge w/ an obscene gesture, IMO.


I went to court in NY once where me and another defendant got our tickets thrown out becuase the trooper was in upstate during the standoff at the indian reservation and could not make it to court the third guy came in looking like he had just run the tour de'france, in bicycle shorts--which showed everything-- and a lycra shirt and the judge lambasted him for his appearance and held over his case till the trooper could appear

A few weeks ago I had to go to court for a ticket and the judge was very nice about the fact that I did not show up in a"wife beater and shorts" --the magistrate did decide in my favor --I did have a valid defense, and I got a chuckle over all the guys in the waiting room sitting around in thier gangsta shorts sidewayz hats and tank tops. Good luck fellas!!
what ever happened to trying to make a good impression on interviewers, judges,and the like --do people actually think dressing as retarded as possible makes them look good??
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 4:38:01 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I thought flipping the bird was ruled legal as "free speech".

Was I wrong?



Oh yeah!


In Oklahoma law we have a statute that is

"using language or gesture to incite anger"
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