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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 7/19/2008 11:36:25 AM EST
I was in the gun store today to pick up some odds and ends and they had a guy at the counter inspecting a Luger. The story was some guy's dad took it off of a dead German towards the end of WWII and brought it home. The guy who claimed the weapon had written his name along with the location and date that the weapon was taken off of the German on the back of the holster.

The salesman said they had just gotten the gun in a couple of days ago. It was brought in by the son of the man who claimed the gun from his fallen enemy. The son only wanted to get enough for the gun to pay for a set of golf clubs. From the markings on the gun they had determined that it was a 1938 Luger.

Overhearing the story from the salesman just made me shake my head. This pistol had probably been carried through the entire war by a German who fell in battle at the end of the conflict and was claimed by his enemy, who brought the gun home and kept it for years. He passed the gun on to his son as an heirloom. It was a symbol of his father's service and memorial of sorts to the fallen soldier who lost the gun. This gun was a tangible physical symbol of two young warrior's service and sacrifice to their countries, and some idiot discarded it for a set of golf clubs that will probably wind up in a garage sale.

When the salesman finished telling the story all three of us just looked at each other and shook our heads. I don't know if we were thinking the exact same thing, but I think we all were in silent agreement that the golfer is a moron. The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:44:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I was in the gun store today to pick up some odds and ends and they had a guy at the counter inspecting a Luger. The story was some guy's dad took it off of a dead German towards the end of WWII and brought it home. The guy who claimed the weapon had written his name along with the location and date that the weapon was taken off of the German on the back of the holster.

The salesman said they had just gotten the gun in a couple of days ago. It was brought in by the son of the man who claimed the gun from his fallen enemy. The son only wanted to get enough for the gun to pay for a set of golf clubs. From the markings on the gun they had determined that it was a 1938 Luger.

Overhearing the story from the salesman just made me shake my head. This pistol had probably been carried through the entire war by a German who fell in battle at the end of the conflict and was claimed by his enemy, who brought the gun home and kept it for years. He passed the gun on to his son as an heirloom. It was a symbol of his father's service and memorial of sorts to the fallen soldier who lost the gun. This gun was a tangible physical symbol of two young warrior's service and sacrifice to their countries, and some idiot discarded it for a set of golf clubs that will probably wind up in a garage sale.

When the salesman finished telling the story all three of us just looked at each other and shook our heads. I don't know if we were thinking the exact same thing, but I think we all were in silent agreement that the golfer is a moron. The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves.

where can I find these deals
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:45:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:48:23 AM EST
Sad that he'd let it go for a set of golf clubs. I'm sure that was not his father's intention.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:51:38 AM EST
Damn, that is sad. My father served 3 tours in Vietnam as a helicopter pilot for the USMC. He saw so many horrors that to this day he still won't talk about any of his experiences. He has citations out the ass for his bravery, medals, and yet I've never heard the details. He has no heirlooms that I know of, but if he does I would cherish them forever and never sell them.

What a piece of shit that son was.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:54:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
At least it will go to somebody who appreciates it.


+1
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:56:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 11:57:02 AM EST by Tannim]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I was in the gun store today to pick up some odds and ends and they had a guy at the counter inspecting a Luger. The story was some guy's dad took it off of a dead German towards the end of WWII and brought it home. The guy who claimed the weapon had written his name along with the location and date that the weapon was taken off of the German on the back of the holster.

The salesman said they had just gotten the gun in a couple of days ago. It was brought in by the son of the man who claimed the gun from his fallen enemy. The son only wanted to get enough for the gun to pay for a set of golf clubs. From the markings on the gun they had determined that it was a 1938 Luger.

Overhearing the story from the salesman just made me shake my head. This pistol had probably been carried through the entire war by a German who fell in battle at the end of the conflict and was claimed by his enemy, who brought the gun home and kept it for years. He passed the gun on to his son as an heirloom. It was a symbol of his father's service and memorial of sorts to the fallen soldier who lost the gun. This gun was a tangible physical symbol of two young warrior's service and sacrifice to their countries, and some idiot discarded it for a set of golf clubs that will probably wind up in a garage sale.

When the salesman finished telling the story all three of us just looked at each other and shook our heads. I don't know if we were thinking the exact same thing, but I think we all were in silent agreement that the golfer is a moron. The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves.




So is it for sale now? DIBS if you don't want it. IM me.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:57:58 AM EST
We didn't beat the Nazis at golf.

What a fucking moron.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:00:11 PM EST
Is the dealer going to sell it?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:00:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By BallisticTip:
Is the dealer going to sell it?


DIBS, I said!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:00:39 PM EST
I hope he isn't gonna have to buy Wal-Mart clubs with the money, although that would be sweet irony. It'd be funny to see him sell a $1500 gun to get $300 worth of clubs.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:07:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 12:07:38 PM EST by JohnCrighton]

Originally Posted By BallisticTip:
Is the dealer going to sell it?


RIF - the OP said that there was someone there looking at it that was buying it.

"The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves. "
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:11:13 PM EST
I just was given the Kar 98a Mauser that was captured by my uncle in WWII. I cherish it and would never sell it for any price. That guy is a idiot.





Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:24:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By ColonelHurtz:
We didn't beat the Nazis at golf.

What a fucking moron.


Yes. One of our most tragic defeats.

j/k.

What a selfish asshole. My dad didn't get to bring many things back from the war, but I have one of his dog tags proudly displayed along with the 48 star flag that draped my grandfather's casket.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:25:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By jrinfoley:
I just was given the Kar 98a Mauser that was captured by my uncle in WWII. I cherish it and would never sell it for any price. That guy is a idiot.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/jrinfoley/P1000328.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/jrinfoley/P1000330.jpg

img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/jrinfoley/P1000335.jpg


That's an awesome gun.

To think that some young man in the prime of his life took up that weapon in service to his country and carried it into battle far from his home. Your uncle, probably also in the prime of his life left his home in service to his country and upon the defeat of his enemy claimed that rifle as a symbol his victory and has kept it all these years. It is a great honor to receive a gift like that.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:26:30 PM EST
My grandpa was in several more known battles of WWII such as Battle of the Bulge, and brought home a Luger. Soon after he got home living in Brooklyn New York City he decided he had seen enough war and dismantled then proceeded to throw it into the East River. So anyone who really really wants a Luger can go fish it out of the East River in New York City.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:33:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By blindmice:
My grandpa was in several more known battles of WWII such as Battle of the Bulge, and brought home a Luger. Soon after he got home living in Brooklyn New York City he decided he had seen enough war and dismantled then proceeded to throw it into the East River. So anyone who really really wants a Luger can go fish it out of the East River in New York City.


What cross street?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:24:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I was in the gun store today to pick up some odds and ends and they had a guy at the counter inspecting a Luger. The story was some guy's dad took it off of a dead German towards the end of WWII and brought it home. The guy who claimed the weapon had written his name along with the location and date that the weapon was taken off of the German on the back of the holster.

The salesman said they had just gotten the gun in a couple of days ago. It was brought in by the son of the man who claimed the gun from his fallen enemy. The son only wanted to get enough for the gun to pay for a set of golf clubs. From the markings on the gun they had determined that it was a 1938 Luger.

Overhearing the story from the salesman just made me shake my head. This pistol had probably been carried through the entire war by a German who fell in battle at the end of the conflict and was claimed by his enemy, who brought the gun home and kept it for years. He passed the gun on to his son as an heirloom. It was a symbol of his father's service and memorial of sorts to the fallen soldier who lost the gun. This gun was a tangible physical symbol of two young warrior's service and sacrifice to their countries, and some idiot discarded it for a set of golf clubs that will probably wind up in a garage sale.

When the salesman finished telling the story all three of us just looked at each other and shook our heads. I don't know if we were thinking the exact same thing, but I think we all were in silent agreement that the golfer is a moron. The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves.

what was their selling price?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:40:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By blindmice:
My grandpa was in several more known battles of WWII such as Battle of the Bulge, and brought home a Luger. Soon after he got home living in Brooklyn New York City he decided he had seen enough war and dismantled then proceeded to throw it into the East River. So anyone who really really wants a Luger can go fish it out of the East River in New York City.


That was certainly his right to do so. However, had he kept the gun as a remembrance of his service and his enemies then I think it would have been a great dishonor to him and to fallen German solider to have his heir treat it with such disrespect.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:42:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
At least it will go to somebody who appreciates it.


Bingo
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:44:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By gengomerpyle:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I was in the gun store today to pick up some odds and ends and they had a guy at the counter inspecting a Luger. The story was some guy's dad took it off of a dead German towards the end of WWII and brought it home. The guy who claimed the weapon had written his name along with the location and date that the weapon was taken off of the German on the back of the holster.

The salesman said they had just gotten the gun in a couple of days ago. It was brought in by the son of the man who claimed the gun from his fallen enemy. The son only wanted to get enough for the gun to pay for a set of golf clubs. From the markings on the gun they had determined that it was a 1938 Luger.

Overhearing the story from the salesman just made me shake my head. This pistol had probably been carried through the entire war by a German who fell in battle at the end of the conflict and was claimed by his enemy, who brought the gun home and kept it for years. He passed the gun on to his son as an heirloom. It was a symbol of his father's service and memorial of sorts to the fallen soldier who lost the gun. This gun was a tangible physical symbol of two young warrior's service and sacrifice to their countries, and some idiot discarded it for a set of golf clubs that will probably wind up in a garage sale.

When the salesman finished telling the story all three of us just looked at each other and shook our heads. I don't know if we were thinking the exact same thing, but I think we all were in silent agreement that the golfer is a moron. The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves.

what was their selling price?


I didn't catch that. The gun was by no means in mint condition. The short look that I got at it (I didn't get to handle it) showed that there was a decent amount of holster wear on it. I would probably guess that it was worth between $1,500 and $2,000
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:51:39 PM EST
Coincidentally, I was at a gun buy back today and this mid 30's woman unrapped a towel and handed in a pristine luger. Don't know the maker or anything etc, but she got 200 for it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:53:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:54:21 PM EST by luger355]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

I didn't catch that. The gun was by no means in mint condition. The short look that I got at it (I didn't get to handle it) showed that there was a decent amount of holster wear on it. I would probably guess that it was worth between $1,500 and $2,000


it it was that much, it should be all matching with both mags
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:54:12 PM EST
From what my grandmother told me, my grandfather had a luger, but it was stolen from their car a while before he passed away. He wasn't in the European theater, and probably got the gun domestically after some other GI brought it back.

I still would have LOVED to have it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:56:44 PM EST
thats a common thing nowadays
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:57:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
Coincidentally, I was at a gun buy back today and this mid 30's woman unrapped a towel and handed in a pristine luger. Don't know the maker or anything etc, but she got 200 for it.


now THAT is a crime


Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:58:37 PM EST


this thread needs more luger
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:58:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I was in the gun store today to pick up some odds and ends and they had a guy at the counter inspecting a Luger. The story was some guy's dad took it off of a dead German towards the end of WWII and brought it home. The guy who claimed the weapon had written his name along with the location and date that the weapon was taken off of the German on the back of the holster.

The salesman said they had just gotten the gun in a couple of days ago. It was brought in by the son of the man who claimed the gun from his fallen enemy. The son only wanted to get enough for the gun to pay for a set of golf clubs. From the markings on the gun they had determined that it was a 1938 Luger.

Overhearing the story from the salesman just made me shake my head. This pistol had probably been carried through the entire war by a German who fell in battle at the end of the conflict and was claimed by his enemy, who brought the gun home and kept it for years. He passed the gun on to his son as an heirloom. It was a symbol of his father's service and memorial of sorts to the fallen soldier who lost the gun. This gun was a tangible physical symbol of two young warrior's service and sacrifice to their countries, and some idiot discarded it for a set of golf clubs that will probably wind up in a garage sale.

When the salesman finished telling the story all three of us just looked at each other and shook our heads. I don't know if we were thinking the exact same thing, but I think we all were in silent agreement that the golfer is a moron. The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves.



I personally think its better this way. Why leave it in the hands of someone who doesn't appreciate it. Plus I guarantee you these mens want to be remembered by the lives they led, not buy the tools they used to take life.

At least thats how my grandfathers have thought of it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:01:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:02:52 PM EST by Clockwork138]

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
thats a common thing nowadays

Yeah. Especially, as stated above about the "gun buy back programs". Every time the local news runs footage from them, there's always some WWII piece in the pile. The last one had some type of Japanese Arisaka. Looked to be in excellent condition. The "seller" got $25.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:05:39 PM EST
There is a luger in my family acquired in the same way. At the moment it is not in my possession, and I worry about it's upkeep and protection. I hope to get it into my safe simply because I think I'll do more to safeguard it than the current guardian... An amazing piece of history.

I have my grandpas compass (wood) and journal from that time. When I read it I am dealt a sharp reminder about his sacrifice, and the sacrifice of those like him.

To those that have served, and those that serve now, a heartfelt thank you.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:07:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:12:13 PM EST by www-glock19-com]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
At least it will go to somebody who appreciates it.


+1 Its not uncommon anymore with that generation dieing off and the current not giving a shit


had a similar thing lady called and said they were cleaning out her fathers stuff and found some old army pistol she was going to throw it away but she figured it might be worth something

She was a smug bitch on the phone and in person when she came into the shop
The absolute contempt from her was palatable ( in her defense her father may have been a drunken asshole who knows )

it was a 60% or so shape Colt 1911A1 and holster nothing spectacular but a solid old gun most people here would be proud to own

she literally tossed it at me and said what will you give me for this damn thing

I smiled and said maybe $100 I never attempt to screw anyone but this bitch was over the top and I did not feel a twinge of guilt

She said her dad had a bunch more "army crap" but she never brought anything else in

That 1911 now sits with many of its brethren in my former bosses safe
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:25:24 PM EST
what a douche-bag. it's probably a good thing though. now someone who will take care of it and appreciate it can have it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:30:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I was in the gun store today to pick up some odds and ends and they had a guy at the counter inspecting a Luger. The story was some guy's dad took it off of a dead German towards the end of WWII and brought it home. The guy who claimed the weapon had written his name along with the location and date that the weapon was taken off of the German on the back of the holster.

The salesman said they had just gotten the gun in a couple of days ago. It was brought in by the son of the man who claimed the gun from his fallen enemy. The son only wanted to get enough for the gun to pay for a set of golf clubs. From the markings on the gun they had determined that it was a 1938 Luger.

Overhearing the story from the salesman just made me shake my head. This pistol had probably been carried through the entire war by a German who fell in battle at the end of the conflict and was claimed by his enemy, who brought the gun home and kept it for years. He passed the gun on to his son as an heirloom. It was a symbol of his father's service and memorial of sorts to the fallen soldier who lost the gun. This gun was a tangible physical symbol of two young warrior's service and sacrifice to their countries, and some idiot discarded it for a set of golf clubs that will probably wind up in a garage sale.

When the salesman finished telling the story all three of us just looked at each other and shook our heads. I don't know if we were thinking the exact same thing, but I think we all were in silent agreement that the golfer is a moron. The buyer was obviously a very knowledgeable collector though who I think will probably keep this weapon with the honor it deserves.



What the hell can even be said about someone who would take an item that has such honor and history attached to it, not to mention connection to his forebearers and casually discard it.
His father should have casually discarded him on piece of toilet paper and sent in the next batch of swimmers to make an heir. Yeah, that about says it.
sw1217
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:13:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
Coincidentally, I was at a gun buy back today and this mid 30's woman unrapped a towel and handed in a pristine luger. Don't know the maker or anything etc, but she got 200 for it.


You didn't counter offer for it?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:25:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
Coincidentally, I was at a gun buy back today and this mid 30's woman unrapped a towel and handed in a pristine luger. Don't know the maker or anything etc, but she got 200 for it.


You didn't counter offer for it?


Negative, I don't have a pistol permit (6 months, 300 buckaroos, valid for 4 years) She unwrapped and put it in the officers hands. It was pretty much a no-go from the moment I saw it.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:27:52 AM EST
Gees
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:30:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:35:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 8:36:19 AM EST by HMHAMMER]

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
Coincidentally, I was at a gun buy back today and this mid 30's woman unrapped a towel and handed in a pristine luger. Don't know the maker or anything etc, but she got 200 for it.


You didn't counter offer for it?


Negative, I don't have a pistol permit (6 months, 300 buckaroos, valid for 4 years) She unwrapped and put it in the officers hands. It was pretty much a no-go from the moment I saw it.


every time I start hating where I live (midwest) I see a comment like this and I then realize that it really isnt that bad.... Atleast we dont have to get permission to buy a pistol...
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:39:50 AM EST
Funny how everybody is assuming the story is true, if I heard that shit the first thing I would be doing is looking for the import mark
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:35:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 7:36:34 PM EST by www-glock19-com]

Originally Posted By Mateba:
Funny how everybody is assuming the story is true, if I heard that shit the first thing I would be doing is looking for the import mark


I kinda had the same thought

I figured it would have black widow grips so it is obvious a SS officer that ran a concentration camp owned the pistol
and it would have import marks
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:58:10 PM EST
A number of years ago my Wife's step father passed away. He had a WWII bring back that my MIL gave to me because of my interest in firearms. It's a Walther P-38 with a leather belt and holster with metal buckle and a leather ammo "box" on the gun belt. It also came with the bring back paper. It has information about the GI who brought it back and appropriate dates and signed off by the C.O.. It's in the safe and it's a long term keeper. It's history you can hold in your hands. I will pass it along some day. TT
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 10:42:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mateba:
Funny how everybody is assuming the story is true, if I heard that shit the first thing I would be doing is looking for the import mark


If you would like to confirm the story then call Euless Guns in Euless Texas (817) 267-6947

Everyone wants to be a tough guy and call someone else out.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:32:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Mateba:
Funny how everybody is assuming the story is true, if I heard that shit the first thing I would be doing is looking for the import mark


If you would like to confirm the story then call Euless Guns in Euless Texas (817) 267-6947

Everyone wants to be a tough guy and call someone else out.


Gun is $1599. I'm cash crunched right now due to gf needing emergency medical care this weekend. So go for it boys.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:39:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 8:46:27 AM EST by JIMBEAM]
My wife's uncle had a German Browning he purchased from a WWII vet in the late 1940's. He offered to GIVE it to me. I accepted and told I was honored. His son decided he wanted it and after the uncle passed away it went to the son. No problem. His wife called me to ask about the gun, neither knew what it looked like or what it was. I did mention that if it was original and document the it was worth a considerable amount( I estimated $650 to $800) so the son wouldn't sell it for a song. My BIL and I both offered to buy it if he wants to sell it. I hope it is not in a pawn shop by now. That would be fricking sad.

Anyway he was a great guy and gave me a Model 11 Remington to "make up" for the pistol.



Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:40:30 AM EST
My uncle traded a P38 he brought back for a .22 Marlin for his kid because he wanted a "useful" gun.




Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:50:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 8:53:52 AM EST by red65]
I don't want to piss in your thread but 99.99% of bringback stories are bullshit.

Unless it has some kind of provenance I would consider the story to be BS.

Back in the 1950's you could buy a lot of these guns for cheap.


Also, the average vet in WWII would not be a front line soldier.

The front line guys traded thousands of captured guns for booze, etc. with the support guys, navy, air force, etc.


I'll bet if you walked into a pawn shop in 1955 you'd see 100 lugers sitting there
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 9:16:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By red65:
The front line guys traded thousands of captured guns for booze, etc. with the support guys, navy, air force, etc.


My great uncle said the guys who really made out were the dock workers. He said they'd steal anything they'd get ahold of. He has to ship his K98 back one piece at a time because of that.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 12:45:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Mateba:
Funny how everybody is assuming the story is true, if I heard that shit the first thing I would be doing is looking for the import mark


If you would like to confirm the story then call Euless Guns in Euless Texas (817) 267-6947

Everyone wants to be a tough guy and call someone else out.


How am I being a "tough guy"? Sorry if I'm cynical but 90% of the time you hear something like this in a gun shop, it turns out to be BS. That guy could have been Eric the Ammoman for all we know.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 1:31:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 1:35:30 PM EST by Daniel76]

Originally Posted By JohnCrighton:
Damn, that is sad. My father served 3 tours in Vietnam as a helicopter pilot for the USMC. He saw so many horrors that to this day he still won't talk about any of his experiences. He has citations out the ass for his bravery, medals, and yet I've never heard the details. He has no heirlooms that I know of, but if he does I would cherish them forever and never sell them.


Please thank your father for me. As a Marine veteran I grew up in the shadows of the Vietnam guys and they were and always will be my heroes. That was a tough time to go serve your country we are indebted to them for their bravery and sacrifice.

On another note, I sat in a gun shop in VA back in the late 90's that belonged to a friend of mine and watched a lady come in with a stack of old documents (unit photos, service papers, etc) and the issue colt .45 her father had purchased after his service in the Great War. All she wanted to do was get rid of it becuase she didn't want guns around her children...

I wanted to puke...
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