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Posted: 11/2/2006 9:18:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 9:20:30 AM EST by t-stox]
Normally to prevent myself from falling through the thin side of the lake i avoid posting Islam articles but this really goes under the WTF? column.

Retired minister dies after setting himself on fire over Islam, church official says
The Associated PressPublished: November 1, 2006


BERLIN: A retired Protestant minister died Wednesday of burns after setting himself on fire, apparently to express his concern over the spread of Islam, a church official said.

The Rev. Roland Weisselberg, 73, climbed into a construction site next to the Augustinerkloser church in the city of Erfurt, poured gasoline over himself and set himself on fire Tuesday during Reformation Day church services, said church provost Elfried Begrich at a news conference.

Weisselberg said in a letter that Germany's Protestant church should take the problem of the spread of Islam more seriously, said Begrich. He had spoken about the issue more and more over the past several years, according to Begrich.

Before dousing himself, she said Weisselberg shouted "Jesus and Oskar," which was taken as an apparent reference to the Rev. Oskar Bruesewitz, who set himself on fire in 1976 as an apparent protest against the communist government then in power in East Germany.

was taken to a burn clinic in the city of Halle, where he died.


Holy makalo!

ETA: opps forgot link. Article
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:19:24 AM EST
Wow, that doesn't happen often anymore.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:21:21 AM EST
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:22:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.


Actually, it didn't.

Thanks for coming out.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:24:04 AM EST
I don't know about the protestants but for Catholics suicide is a one way ticket to Hell.
Disturbing in any case.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:24:18 AM EST
Wow.

That's a protest that you can actually respect, as opposed to a bunch of whiny pussies with banners.

Still, strapping dynamite to himself and running into Osama's cave or a Taliban stronghold in Afghanistan would have been better.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:24:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.


Saved for posterity.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:25:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
I don't know about the protestants but for Catholics suicide is a one way ticket to Hell.
Disturbing in any case.


We don't have purgatory - maybe we don't have that made-up rule either.

Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:26:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By macman37:
Wow, that doesn't happen often anymore.


This is what is mind blowing about the whole thing, Bhuddhists and Hindus do this becuase it is permissable because of their religion to do so! (as screwed up as that sounds) Remeber the Bhuddhist monk from Vietnam??
But technically i though suicide by Christians of ANY stripe including protestants was strictly "verboten!"
Sorry about the Verboten remark, , but hey, he was German!
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:30:33 AM EST
should have burnt down a mosque instead
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:32:36 AM EST
sorry but the topic title should read- "Dumbass burns self in protest of Islam"
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:40:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
I don't know about the protestants but for Catholics suicide is a one way ticket to Hell.
Disturbing in any case.


We don't have purgatory - maybe we don't have that made-up rule either.



Not made up. It's murder of self. Thus violating one of the Ten Commandments.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:46:03 AM EST

German Christian burns self in protest of Islam


Should have said, "German Insane Man burns self, etc"

A Christian is one that follows the teachings of Jesus. Jesus never said to burn yourself in protest of anything.

The man was simply insane.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:46:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 9:47:48 AM EST by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
I don't know about the protestants but for Catholics suicide is a one way ticket to Hell.
Disturbing in any case.


We don't have purgatory - maybe we don't have that made-up rule either.



Not made up. It's murder of self. Thus violating one of the Ten Commandments.


I actually don't know what the Church of Denmark official position is on suicide, so I'm mostly just joking. BUt I'm not sure if the stricture against suicide is as strong in some Lutheran denominations as it is in Catholicism.


I have also been told - but am not sure - that the Catholic interpretation of the commandment against murder as applying to suicide didn't become widespread or accepted until the middle ages (for a variety or reasons). But I don't know if that is correct, or if it has always been accepted part of church dogma. (I don't really know that much about Catholicism - other than the fact that some of them really dislike lutherans )

SO I acknowledge that "made up" may have been a poor choice of words.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:52:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.


Thanks for your contribution.

Link Posted: 11/2/2006 9:52:17 AM EST
According to the New Testament, the only unforgiveable sin, is not believing in Christ.

Now, if you kill yourself, you can't ask forgiveness, right?

And, is killing yourself an outward demonstration you don't have Faith in the Lord, equating to point one?
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:03:10 AM EST
No, I said a Bud light!
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:05:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By stoner63a:
According to the New Testament, the only unforgiveable sin, is not believing in Christ.

Now, if you kill yourself, you can't ask forgiveness, right?

And, is killing yourself an outward demonstration you don't have Faith in the Lord, equating to point one?


Actually i saw the Movie "Luther" and it had a scene in it where a boy hanged himself. And they were all acting pissy like he couldnt be buried in a church etc. But Martin Luther buried him there and gave a great sermon about it. He did nt exactly condone suicide but he said is it was like being "overpowered" by satan who tells you to kill yourself, and the boy was overcome by the power of the devil and it was no different than a man who is attacked in the woods by a robber. And that God is mercy.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:06:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.


It's not a bad joke, it's hateful. It didn't need to be said either, but aparently you are below the age of twelve and just can't help yourself. Either that, or you are so ate up with the truth and your rejection of it that you, again, just can't help yourself.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:08:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
I don't know about the protestants but for Catholics suicide is a one way ticket to Hell.
Disturbing in any case.


We don't have purgatory - maybe we don't have that made-up rule either.



Not made up. It's murder of self. Thus violating one of the Ten Commandments.


I actually don't know what the Church of Denmark official position is on suicide, so I'm mostly just joking. BUt I'm not sure if the stricture against suicide is as strong in some Lutheran denominations as it is in Catholicism.


I have also been told - but am not sure - that the Catholic interpretation of the commandment against murder as applying to suicide didn't become widespread or accepted until the middle ages (for a variety or reasons). But I don't know if that is correct, or if it has always been accepted part of church dogma. (I don't really know that much about Catholicism - other than the fact that some of them really dislike lutherans )

SO I acknowledge that "made up" may have been a poor choice of words.



My dad was Lutheran.Actually I think Catholics are more tolerant of other religions than most other denominations.( Ihave more friends who are Jews than born agains) Most religions consider suicide as the only unforgivable sin.
Now the Church(RC) may hve changed it's stance, not sure.
In Judaism, Catholicism and most Christian Religions and Islam... suicide is a no-no and a quick pass to Hell.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:10:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 10:12:24 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
Well......That was stupid.

Instead of drawing attention to concerns about islam, he just drew attention to the fact he was a loon.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:11:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 10:17:22 AM EST by Gunner1X]

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.


Fuck off

Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:12:53 AM EST
He brought some media attention to himself, but he could have probably spread his message better by other means (and he'd still be alive).
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:13:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Just when you thought you have read the dumbest thing EVER, somebody comes along and says something even more retarded.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:16:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Just when you thought you have read the dumbest thing EVER, somebody comes along and says something even more retarded.



No shit....ignorance at its peak.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:17:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By stoner63a:
According to the New Testament, the only unforgiveable sin, is not believing in Christ.


Actually, Jesus lists the unforgivable sin as blaspheming The Holy Ghost.



Now, if you kill yourself, you can't ask forgiveness, right?


And therein lies the problem of suicide. If one is convinced enough to think that they would NEED forgiveness for suicide, and yet they carry through with it anyway, then it is essentially like praying "Lord, forgive me for adultery..." right before you buy the hooker.

Forgiveness doesn't work like that.

Now there are some people who are genuinely out of their mind and unable to appreciate their actions. I don't think that if they kill themselves they are viewed in the same way.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:18:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 10:19:09 AM EST by thedoctors308]
Better ways to protest.
He could have spread the word, gotten some local youths pissed off at him, and gotten himself murdered.
He would have gotten his message out, become a martyr, and had a huge following - instead he is just a ln.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:20:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
SO I acknowledge that "made up" may have been a poor choice of words.


I actually think a strong case can be made that suicide is a sin based on how the Bible speaks about the life of the individual in God's eyes. Most Christian churches hold suicide to be a sin for that reason.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:24:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
SO I acknowledge that "made up" may have been a poor choice of words.


I actually think a strong case can be made that suicide is a sin based on how the Bible speaks about the life of the individual in God's eyes. Most Christian churches hold suicide to be a sin for that reason.


My take on it is that it is so final. If it is a sin(and I do believe it is) then "uh-oh can't ask for forgiveness"
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:26:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.


thanks poster from CA, you are helping to reinforce stereotypes about people from CA as being hateful, intolerant, secular, godless people. Way to post something constructive.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:27:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Wow.

That's a protest that you can actually respect, as opposed to a bunch of whiny pussies with banners.

Still, strapping dynamite to himself and running into Osama's cave or a Taliban stronghold in Afghanistan would have been better.


You hit the nail on the head.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:29:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
SO I acknowledge that "made up" may have been a poor choice of words.


I actually think a strong case can be made that suicide is a sin based on how the Bible speaks about the life of the individual in God's eyes. Most Christian churches hold suicide to be a sin for that reason.


Heres a real noodle scratcher for you JW, could Jesus Microwave a burrito SO hot that even he could'nt eat it??

NO, seriously, here is a real Suicide paradox as concerns the biblical laws. The Story of Massada! After the second temple was destroyed and Rome was expelling or killing all the Jews of Israel a bunch of them Holed up in a place called Masada. It took the legion 6 months to lay siege to the fortress. But Once the Jews knew there was no way out they all committed suicide. When the Romans got in they found nothing but bodies. the Men had killed thier own children and wives then killed themselves to avoid being sold into slavery or more likely crusified. So was that an unforgiveable sin?
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:31:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Better ways to protest.
He could have spread the word, gotten some local youths pissed off at him, and gotten himself murdered.
He would have gotten his message out, become a martyr, and had a huge following - instead he is just a ln.


Yep. He should have made a cartoon or TV show up about mohamed's ass being fat or something and the RoP would have taken care of the rest.

(ref: Theo Van Gogh)
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:31:45 AM EST
eXtreme protesting!
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:32:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
SO I acknowledge that "made up" may have been a poor choice of words.


I actually think a strong case can be made that suicide is a sin based on how the Bible speaks about the life of the individual in God's eyes. Most Christian churches hold suicide to be a sin for that reason.


Heres a real noodle scratcher for you JW, could Jesus Microwave a burrito SO hot that even he could'nt eat it??

NO, seriously, here is a real Suicide paradox as concerns the biblical laws. The Story of Massada! After the second temple was destroyed and Rome was expelling or killing all the Jews of Israel a bunch of them Holed up in a place called Masada. It took the legion 6 months to lay siege to the fortress. But Once the Jews knew there was no way out they all committed suicide. When the Romans got in they found nothing but bodies. the Men had killed thier own children and wives then killed themselves to avoid being sold into slavery or more likely crusified. So was that an unforgiveable sin?


I think God is infinetly wise, and that he makes allowances for people.
They committed suicide out of a desire to protect their family from suffering.
Kinda like if you've been bitten by a zombie, and you shoot yourself so you can't turn on your friends.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:33:07 AM EST
Fantastic.

That'll help.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:49:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By t-stox:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
SO I acknowledge that "made up" may have been a poor choice of words.


I actually think a strong case can be made that suicide is a sin based on how the Bible speaks about the life of the individual in God's eyes. Most Christian churches hold suicide to be a sin for that reason.


Heres a real noodle scratcher for you JW, could Jesus Microwave a burrito SO hot that even he could'nt eat it??

NO, seriously, here is a real Suicide paradox as concerns the biblical laws. The Story of Massada! After the second temple was destroyed and Rome was expelling or killing all the Jews of Israel a bunch of them Holed up in a place called Masada. It took the legion 6 months to lay siege to the fortress. But Once the Jews knew there was no way out they all committed suicide. When the Romans got in they found nothing but bodies. the Men had killed thier own children and wives then killed themselves to avoid being sold into slavery or more likely crusified. So was that an unforgiveable sin?


I think God is infinetly wise, and that he makes allowances for people.
They committed suicide out of a desire to protect their family from suffering.
Kinda like if you've been bitten by a zombie, and you shoot yourself so you can't turn on your friends.

Yeah well thats the problem isnt it? Once you try to decide what a sin is, and it seems the only "sure way to hell sin" then it becomes more like a court of law or something.
And you've got all kinds of arguements and loopholes about it. Im sure a LOT of people commit suicide to protect their family from "suffering", kinda like "MY family would be better off without me". or in the case of Terminally ill people who want to end the pain since they are already "dead" so to speak. Too many gray areas for people to say "suicide is a sin, full stop".
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:51:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Heres a real noodle scratcher for you JW, could Jesus Microwave a burrito SO hot that even he could'nt eat it??

NO, seriously, here is a real Suicide paradox as concerns the biblical laws. The Story of Massada!


Not really, because the account of Massada isn't in Protestant Bibles.

Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:54:13 AM EST
He would have made a more telling point if he'd run into a Mosque and set himself on fire…

Killed himself in protest AND burnt down a Mosque… that would have got everyones attention.

ANdy
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:57:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Heres a real noodle scratcher for you JW, could Jesus Microwave a burrito SO hot that even he could'nt eat it??

NO, seriously, here is a real Suicide paradox as concerns the biblical laws. The Story of Massada!


Not really, because the account of Massada isn't in Protestant Bibles.


It isnt in the Hebrew bible either, i just meant to say what do you think about thier suicide in relation to Biblical interpritation of Suicide since these people also belived in the bible yet committed suicide anyway?
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 10:57:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 10:58:25 AM EST by KangarooAR-15A3]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Heres a real noodle scratcher for you JW, could Jesus Microwave a burrito SO hot that even he could'nt eat it??

NO, seriously, here is a real Suicide paradox as concerns the biblical laws. The Story of Massada!


Not really, because the account of Massada isn't in Protestant Bibles.



Nor is it in the OLd Testament.
Masada incident (suicide)is not justified by any biblical account.
Mass suicide did not change the results of the seige at Masada and the Romans account states that they would not have killed the Jews in any case, just the ringleaders of the revolt.
Terminally ill, no exemption as far as scripture is concerned. One may suffer but that is God's will. Your life is not yours to take, as it is a gift from God and belongs to God, not to you. This is the dominant teaching of all Judeo Christian belief systems.
There are no scriptural "loopholes" as far as suicide is concerned. There may be forgiveness for suicide, judgemant is reserved for God. On this there are several scriptural passages, God alone makes the call.
In any case this mans suicide is a tragedy and accomplished nothing, Islam has not changed, the jihadists could care less, and he is dead, whereas alive he may have accomplished something more positive with a different form of protest.
Just my Opinion.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 11:01:38 AM EST
I think I am going to protest too. By setting an Islamofacist/terrorist on fire instead.

Bilster

PS Bring some mashmellows.

PPS Bring some Texas White Hots too.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 11:10:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2006 11:18:18 AM EST by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Thats awesome...we killed another christian without firing a shot...

maybe the rest of you want to "protest" too?


Bad joke I know, but it had to be said.


ETA I dare you to make your statement again but this time replace the term Christian with Jew. (this is to just make a point) Guess what, you are no diffrent than a NAzi. Hate filled bigots.

Sad thing is. you will get away with your statement becuase it was directed at Christians. Direct it at Jews and you will be chased off the site by the members ( I will be among them chasing you). Say it about Muslims and you will chased off by Staff. Say it about christians, you will get told to stuff it and so forth but thats about it. We are easy targets for the weak because its commonplace and acceptable to bash us and mainly because our backlash is innocuous.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 11:18:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
Your life is not yours to take, as it is a gift from God and belongs to God, not to you. This is the dominant teaching of all Judeo Christian belief systems.


And it's DUMB! Suicide is a GIFT! If I'm dying a slow, horribly painful death - BLAM - and I know for a fact I'll see God smiling at me in welcome on the other side, regardless of what the christian magic book says.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 11:19:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fistus:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
Your life is not yours to take, as it is a gift from God and belongs to God, not to you. This is the dominant teaching of all Judeo Christian belief systems.


And it's DUMB! Suicide is a GIFT! If I'm dying a slow, horribly painful death - BLAM - and I know for a fact I'll see God smiling at me in welcome on the other side, regardless of what the christian magic book says.


Well i am not going to tell you what to believe.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 11:27:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By WildBoar:


Direct it at Jews and you will be chased off the site by the members ( I will be among them chasing you). Say it about Muslims and you will chased off by Staff. .


Truer words were never spoken, sad but true.
Well, the latter part anyway.
Link Posted: 11/2/2006 2:00:28 PM EST
This is still a not-that-uncommon method of protest in Eastern Europe (especially the Czech Republic); it is relatively uncommon in Western Europe, however Germany has a lot of cultural ties to its Czech neighbor and so it does not surprise me.
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