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Posted: 3/11/2006 4:43:20 AM EST
Why is genocide wrong? Why is removing a human population from existence wrong in all cases, if doing so would benefit you/your country?

Just a simple answer will suffice, but just to save time and effort, I am not asking the religious people here this question. Their reasoning is obvious, and I have no desire to debate religious doctrine.

So for those without an organized religious foundation, why is genocide wrong in all cases?



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:45:46 AM EST
oooh...

tag for this one.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:45:58 AM EST
Killing people is generally wrong. Killing lots of people is generally even more so.

I guess it depends on the reason.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:47:56 AM EST
This won't last long.

IBTL!!!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:48:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Killing people is generally wrong. Killing lots of people is generally even more so.

I guess it depends on the reason.



Why is killing people wrong?

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:48:10 AM EST
when was the last time we had a real genocide?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:49:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By GreyGhost:
This won't last long.

IBTL!!!



I have no intention of offending anyone with this thread.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:50:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:51:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Killing people is generally wrong. Killing lots of people is generally even more so.

I guess it depends on the reason.


Why is killing people wrong?


The only way for me to demonstrate this concept in an appropriate, apt manner is to kill you. As I am killing you, you will be able to answer your question.

What's your address?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:52:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Shake:
when was the last time we had a real genocide?



We as in who? We the world? or We in the USA?

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:53:22 AM EST
Start with yourself
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:53:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Killing people is generally wrong. Killing lots of people is generally even more so.

I guess it depends on the reason.


Why is killing people wrong?


The only way for me to demonstrate this concept in an appropriate, apt manner is to kill you. As I am killing you, you will be able to answer your question.

What's your address?



OK.

So, again, why is killing people wrong?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:54:17 AM EST
Why is genocide wrong?

Because why should you be murdered because of something beyond your control: your racial identity?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:55:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 4:55:36 AM EST by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By raven:
Why is genocide wrong?

Because why should you be murdered because of something beyond your control: your racial identity?



OK, but why is it wrong to kill someone because of something beyond their control; like their racial identity?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:55:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:56:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Killing people is generally wrong. Killing lots of people is generally even more so.

I guess it depends on the reason.



Why is killing people wrong?




If you cannot answer that question by yourself, then trying to explain it to you is hopeless.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:57:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By raven:
Why is genocide wrong?

Because why should you be murdered because of something beyond your control: your racial identity?



OK, but why is it wrong to kill someone because of something beyond their control; like their racial identity?



Ever read the Ten Commandments? They aren't the Ten Suggestions. Or maybe you're a sociopath dont think there's anything like justice or law, and god is a hoax. Good luck with that attitude. Wehave special facilities for people like you.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:58:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
I hope you didn't stay up all night thinking on this one.

I really don't think you need a bible or ARFCOM to tell me that eating your own feces is wrong and most certainly wouldn't need advice on genocide.

IBTL



Just got off a 12 hour shift.

So, again, if it is so obvious, why is genocide wrong in all cases? Just give me the reason, and I will be convinced.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:59:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By 2A373:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Killing people is generally wrong. Killing lots of people is generally even more so.

I guess it depends on the reason.



Why is killing people wrong?




If you cannot answer that question by yourself, then trying to explain it to you is hopeless.



Just one sentence will be fine. Why is it wrong?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:59:37 AM EST
I don't think anyone can answer your question if our definitions of wrong and right have no common basis or are misunderstood.

Can you share what has influenced, what has shaped your definition of what's wrong or right ?

A common framework would help.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:00:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By raven:
Why is genocide wrong?

Because why should you be murdered because of something beyond your control: your racial identity?



OK, but why is it wrong to kill someone because of something beyond their control; like their racial identity?



Ever read the Ten Commandments? They aren't the Ten Suggestions. Or maybe you're a sociopath dont think there's anything like justice or law, and god is a hoax. Good luck with that attitude. Wehave special facilities for people like you.



I said I was not directing this question towards people with a religious foundation in my origional post. I am well aware of their valid reasons against genocide.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:02:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:02:38 AM EST by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By IntruderBware:
I don't think anyone can answer your question if our definitions of wrong and right have no common basis or are misunderstood.

Can you share what has influenced, what has shaped your definition of what's wrong or right ?

A common framework would help.




Yes, that is important. That is why I directed the question towards people who are not coming from a religious foundation. I understand the religious reasons.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:02:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:03:56 AM EST
if you can't stipulate that killing is wrong, can you give us an example of something else that you think is wrong so we have a frame of reference?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:04:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:

“We hold these truths to be self evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”



OK.

Why is that statement true?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:06:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
if you can't stipulate that killing is wrong, can you give us an example of something else that you think is wrong so we have a frame of reference?



I just want to know why genocide would be wrong in all cases.

I cannot give you an example of something that is objectively wrong, no. I have no evidence of such an act.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:10:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:12:13 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:12:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:13:19 AM EST by NoVaGator]

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
if you can't stipulate that killing is wrong, can you give us an example of something else that you think is wrong so we have a frame of reference?



I just want to know why genocide would be wrong in all cases.

I cannot give you an example of something that is objectively wrong, no. I have no evidence of such an act.




so what you'r saying is that this is all mental masturbation.

If nothing is objectively wrong, then genocide is not wrong.

you win. I guess
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:13:53 AM EST
What has influenced, what has shaped your definition of what's wrong or right ?

If you can provide that info someone may be able to give an answer you would accept. Without that point defined, it's an endless discussion.

If you're really looking for an answer, more info is required.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:14:37 AM EST
The question is not about me.

Many people who are not religious make claims such as "genocide is just wrong." I simply want to know why a non-religious person believes genocide would be wrong. If you believe it is wrong, you must believe it for some reason. You must have some evidence.

This came up in the thread about Slobodan Milosevic. I said what he did in his country was his business, so long as he did not threaten other nations. The comment was made that genocide is always wrong, even if it is purely an internal affair in a sovereign nation.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:17:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:19:58 AM EST by 2A373]
Will not feed the anymore.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:17:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
The question is not about me.

Many people who are not religious make claims such as "genocide is just wrong." I simply want to know why a non-religious person believes genocide would be wrong. If you believe it is wrong, you must believe it for some reason. You must have some evidence.

This came up in the thread about Slobodan Milosevic. I said what he did in his country was his business, so long as he did not threaten other nations. The comment was made that genocide is always wrong, even if it is purely an internal affair in a sovereign nation.



ok, it's unnatural.

Is there another species on the planet that kills a whole subset of its population because of a different appearance or though process?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:19:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
People are responsible for their actions.

BTW, I was laughing about this thread and told my wife. She bet me you are under 20 years old.



OK.

Are you saying people are responsible for their action, to God? How are people responsible for their actions?

I understand that the question is a bit silly, but you are not giving me a concrete answer. Actions and opposite reactions is a physical concept. If I kill someone, I am not instantly killed with the same force I killed with.

If you are not religious, why is genocide wrong in all cases?

I am 29, USN 96-01.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:21:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
The question is not about me.

Many people who are not religious make claims such as "genocide is just wrong." I simply want to know why a non-religious person believes genocide would be wrong. If you believe it is wrong, you must believe it for some reason. You must have some evidence.

This came up in the thread about Slobodan Milosevic. I said what he did in his country was his business, so long as he did not threaten other nations. The comment was made that genocide is always wrong, even if it is purely an internal affair in a sovereign nation.



ok, it's unnatural.

Is there another species on the planet that kills a whole subset of its population because of a different appearance or though process?




There is not another species capable of such organized action.

Are you saying that if, wolves for example, were capable of organizing and removing all competetors from a certain area, they would not do it? They would see it is "unnatural?"
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:23:31 AM EST
Because it is murder and murder is wrong. If you can't understand something so simple then I have no other way to explain it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:24:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
The question is not about me.

Many people who are not religious make claims such as "genocide is just wrong." I simply want to know why a non-religious person believes genocide would be wrong. If you believe it is wrong, you must believe it for some reason. You must have some evidence.

This came up in the thread about Slobodan Milosevic. I said what he did in his country was his business, so long as he did not threaten other nations. The comment was made that genocide is always wrong, even if it is purely an internal affair in a sovereign nation.



ok, it's unnatural.

Is there another species on the planet that kills a whole subset of its population because of a different appearance or though process?




There is not another species capable of such organized action.

Are you saying that if, wolves for example, were capable of organizing and removing all competetors from a certain area, they would not do it? They would see it is "unnatural?"



Wolves have highly complex social interactions.

I'm not aware of wolves wiping out other packs.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:24:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:28:00 AM EST by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Because it is murder and murder is wrong. If you can't understand something so simple then I have no other way to explain it.



Why is murder wrong? If it is so simple, you should have no problem stating why it is wrong in one sentence.

I am assuming you are not religious, as I made that exception in my first post.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:27:08 AM EST
The classic argument between morality (doesn't have to even involve religion) and moral relativism.

You could say it is the Golden Rule, too - don't do to others what you don't wish to be done to you.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:27:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
The question is not about me.

Many people who are not religious make claims such as "genocide is just wrong." I simply want to know why a non-religious person believes genocide would be wrong. If you believe it is wrong, you must believe it for some reason. You must have some evidence.

This came up in the thread about Slobodan Milosevic. I said what he did in his country was his business, so long as he did not threaten other nations. The comment was made that genocide is always wrong, even if it is purely an internal affair in a sovereign nation.



ok, it's unnatural.

Is there another species on the planet that kills a whole subset of its population because of a different appearance or though process?




There is not another species capable of such organized action.

Are you saying that if, wolves for example, were capable of organizing and removing all competetors from a certain area, they would not do it? They would see it is "unnatural?"



Wolves have highly complex social interactions.

I'm not aware of wolves wiping out other packs.




Wolves, and animals in general have no sense of self. They don't realize they are wolves. This would be the first necessity to wolves organizing to round up other animals and systematically kill them for a projected goal.



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:29:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Because it is murder and murder is wrong. If you can't understand something so simple then I have no other way to explain it.



Why is murder wrong? If it is so simple, you should have no problem stating why it is wrong in one sentence.

I am assuming you are not religious, as I made that exception in my first post.



Murder is wrong because it is un-natural. In nature, creatures do NOT indiscriminantly murder other creatures. Sure, they kill to eat/feed, or to protect themselves. But they do NOT naturally kill for no reason. Those that do are sick and are normally wiped out by the pack or driven out.

How's that?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:32:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
The classic argument between morality (doesn't have to even involve religion) and moral relativism.

You could say it is the Golden Rule, too - don't do to others what you don't wish to be done to you.




I would wish it that Heather Graham forced herself on me, so I should force myself on her then...?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:32:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
The question is not about me.

Many people who are not religious make claims such as "genocide is just wrong." I simply want to know why a non-religious person believes genocide would be wrong. If you believe it is wrong, you must believe it for some reason. You must have some evidence.

This came up in the thread about Slobodan Milosevic. I said what he did in his country was his business, so long as he did not threaten other nations. The comment was made that genocide is always wrong, even if it is purely an internal affair in a sovereign nation.



ok, it's unnatural.

Is there another species on the planet that kills a whole subset of its population because of a different appearance or though process?




There is not another species capable of such organized action.

Are you saying that if, wolves for example, were capable of organizing and removing all competetors from a certain area, they would not do it? They would see it is "unnatural?"



Wolves have highly complex social interactions.

I'm not aware of wolves wiping out other packs.




Wolves, and animals in general have no sense of self. They don't realize they are wolves. This would be the first necessity to wolves organizing to round up other animals and systematically kill them for a projected goal.




I think I've just deflated your argument. (I could have just said pwn3d)

Enjoy the rest of your masturbation.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:34:18 AM EST
It appears that you are attempting to use all the classical argumentative approaches to trying to prove the unprovable. If so, you are just going to end up going around and around and not getting anywhere. It is like "faith" - an argument that cannot be "proven" if you are not receptive to it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:34:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:39:26 AM EST by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Because it is murder and murder is wrong. If you can't understand something so simple then I have no other way to explain it.



Why is murder wrong? If it is so simple, you should have no problem stating why it is wrong in one sentence.

I am assuming you are not religious, as I made that exception in my first post.



Murder is wrong because it is un-natural. In nature, creatures do NOT indiscriminantly murder other creatures. Sure, they kill to eat/feed, or to protect themselves. But they do NOT naturally kill for no reason. Those that do are sick and are normally wiped out by the pack or driven out.

How's that?



Well, have you ever seen a cat "play" with a mouse, and eventually kill it, even if the cat is not hungry and has no intention of eating the mouse?

And again, animals have no sense of self. They are driven by instincts. The impulses you offer as proof are impulses they are not capable of to begin with.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:36:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:37:41 AM EST by StinkFoot]

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Because it is murder and murder is wrong. If you can't understand something so simple then I have no other way to explain it.



Why is murder wrong?

...clip...



Legally: Murder (vs. killing someone in self-defense, accidently, war, etc.) is just against the law.

Morally: You can make a moral justification for doing anything you want as long as you can sleep with yourself at night.

BTW - If you Momma didn't tell you ... Murder is wrong. 'Nuff said.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:36:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
It appears that you are attempting to use all the classical argumentative approaches to trying to prove the unprovable. If so, you are just going to end up going around and around and not getting anywhere. It is like "faith" - an argument that cannot be "proven" if you are not receptive to it.



So, it is impossible to prove that genocide is wrong in all cases?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:38:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By StinkFoot:


Morally: You can make a moral justification for doing anything you want as long as you can sleep with yourself at night.




So, if I feel genocide is not morally wrong, and I sleep fine at night, then it is not morally wrong.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:38:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:40:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:
IBTL…

I expect we may even see an account lock out of this thread…


ANdy



Why in the world would you think that?

Who have I threatened? You Euros and your distrust of free thought...
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:43:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:44:00 AM EST by Sylvan]
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:45:00 AM EST
I really think this kind of deep, philosophical question should be tried somewhere else.

Why not ask this question at a Starbucks?

I am sure you will get lots of "intelligent" answers from the types that hang out there for hours.


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