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Posted: 8/28/2004 12:45:46 PM EST
Ya see I've got this bright red 2003 mustang GT convertible (automatic).

Some acquaintances in my circle "the gear heads" say i should bolt on a cold air intake to my ride. Apparently this little item is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Now I'm not a car guy by any stretch. I'm the "GUN GUY" that everyone comes to for their armament needs.

Whats the deal on these $300 thingamabobs? Do they actualy work? Are they worth it?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:47:48 PM EST
Many will have little to no effect, even then you wont get 10-15 HP lke they claim. Only the really well made, reputable ones do any dyno testing to verify claims.

S.O.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:48:47 PM EST
Yeah, they're worth it. Before I wrecked my '97 Mustang GT (cry) I had one on it. All my buddies with their rice burners had them. They'll add 5-15 horsepower depending on what vehicle you have. Throttle response increased noticeably on my car. Acceleration seemed to be boosted moderately. All in all, I'd say it's worth it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:49:55 PM EST
My law firm just picked up a new client.

Young lady (16 YOA) used her savings to buy a nice used car, 2002 model year, from a local dealership. They didn't tell her that the car had been "riced" up and "tuned" including by addition of a cold air intake.

Here's the problem. Cold air intakes route the intake area downward within the engine compartment. Well, this young lady got caught in a heavy rain event, and sploshed her way through some high water. That cold air intake she didn't know about sucked some water right into the engine. Unlike air, water does not compress. The result: Broken piston rod, cracked crank shaft, and a blown engine. Surely if this kid understood the risks, she would not have tried to drive the car in foot deep water. On the other hand, all the other cars on the road that day -- which take their air from the top of the engine compartment -- were doing just fine.

Take that for what' its worth.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:50:57 PM EST
I can think of better mods to spend your money on. Which one were you considering?

Bear in mind that many put the new intake very low in the frame, and driving through large puddles can cause you problems. I knew a kid with a Civic that had to map his rainy-day drives very carefully.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:52:24 PM EST
not to hijack, but does a reputable cold air intake increase gass milage?

I have heard that some muffler designs do as well?

Also, what about superchargers or turbo chargers?

I want a ride with decent power(not looking to drag race or haul 50 foot boats) but that gets better then normal gas mileage for its class.

I am trying to find anyway I can to boost the power/fuel economy on a Toyota Tacoma series truck. Honestly though, I don't want to go the supercharger route because I will then have to buy premium gasoline which costs allot more.

Any ideas?

Chris
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:56:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
I can think of better mods to spend your money on. Which one were you considering?

Bear in mind that many put the new intake very low in the frame, and driving through large puddles can cause you problems. I knew a kid with a Civic that had to map his rainy-day drives very carefully.




K&M 2nd gen,

The thing that caught my interest is the proposed increase in fuel efficency. She tends to be pretty thirsty if im not careful.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:56:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 12:59:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
saw a hole in the hood and mount one of them scoops to your car. not only does it give you cool air, ram air and the the look that turns heads....it provides a great place to mount blue lights or neon.

as a bonus, you can still drive thru really deep water.



its a ford, it comes from the factory with a "fake" hood scoop already
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:00:13 PM EST
i have one on my turbo gti and i like it alot. it makes a lot of noise so if you dont want to be obnoxious stay away, i felt top end power. as for floods i live in california and never go through anything more than a couple inches. mine was only $140
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:02:03 PM EST
Remeber an engine is a system and just opening one end will not make it run better. Intake, exhaust, filter are some of the mods you need to make not just the intake. We wont even mention the actual engine mods and the ECU mods you need.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:05:15 PM EST
Get an underdrive pulley, decreases parasitic drag caused by the accessories, so you get increased power to the ground and better gas mileage.

www.rpm-mustangs.com/ocat/index.html
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:09:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 1:13:35 PM EST by luger355]

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Remeber an engine is a system and just opening one end will not make it run better. Intake, exhaust, filter are some of the mods you need to make not just the intake. We wont even mention the actual engine mods and the ECU mods you need.



kinda soulds like your pointing to one of those superchip tuner computer things or am i wayyy off
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:13:23 PM EST
I have a friend who put a K&N kit on his supercharged 4Runner, and lost 10 hp at the rear wheels.

I put one on my 95 naturally aspirated 4Runner, and all it did was make the interior noise level un-bearable:
Nothing could have helped that motor make more power.

For 35 dollars, I put a drop-in Amsoil oiled foam air filter in my 4Runner, and picked up 5 hp at the rear wheels, plus it filters a lot better than the K&N oiled paper type filters.

But hey,,, that 300 dollar kit will look good.

Jay

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:16:07 PM EST
I have one on my bmw, It did increase low end torque and throttle response...money well spent
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:17:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:19:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 1:19:54 PM EST by Jasba]
For an 03' GT, go with pulleys. A cold air intake may increase hp by a couple RWHP at best. The K&N filter that most will include is great, but you can get it by itself for about $50 or less, and it will boost hp a little, better mileage, and you will never have to replace the filter again because it it washable and cleans much better than stock. As for the pulleys, the best ones for an 03' are made by Steeda. Very easy to replace, just make sure you have an impact wrench for the alternator pulley. While your one Steeda's website, pick up a tri-ax shifter, one of the best for your GT if you plan on any "spirited" driving at all. The stock one is weak, and will allow you to bend the shift forks if you shift too hard. Aftermarker shifters like the Tri-ax and Pro 5.0 have limit stops and feel SO much better. Another great web site is Mustangworld.com. The forums there can get out of hand and are ruled by 17 yr olds, but the tech forum is good info.
Jason.

Sorry, after reading again noticed yours was an automatic. Skip the info on the shifters.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:28:55 PM EST
Some of the intakes will mess with the engine sensors. Yes some of those ECU chips do work well, some are crap and just expensive. But you will need to make adjustments to the engine management sometimes when the mods are put it. I have a MR2 with a cold intake, KN filter and TRD exhaust. Better but not super better. Sounds a lot louder and better response. But not really astronomical improvements.

Get some suspension pieces to upgrade too. I have TRD braces and it makes a huge difference.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:31:46 PM EST
How is the air closer to the asphalt cooler than the air farther from the asphalt?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:33:11 PM EST
heres a pic to inspire yall
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:39:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
How is the air closer to the asphalt cooler than the air farther from the asphalt?



It more has to do with engine compartment temps and heated air and getting regular temp air. The air isnt "cold" its just cooler than the engine bay ambient air. The real temp difference is 65 deg vs. 120 deg air. Cooler air is denser and the more dense the air the more O2 is packed in, thus makingyour engine run more effiecent on the same amount of gas. More efficency is translated as more power.

So yea its a good thing
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:46:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 1:51:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 1:52:03 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
It has been working for years....



MT

no that is not mine...
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 4:57:54 PM EST
I have a 97 Ram 1500, 5.2 L. I put a K&N in it mostly for the power to pull my Homeland Security Mobile Command and Communications Center, a 30' 7,000# Trailer.
Power was more Pick up was better and 2 MPG better. THe Ram had ahorrible air intake with 2 90 degree turns.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:02:48 PM EST
You will gain from a CAI. However, I would go to a mustang site such as www.corral.net or www.stangnet.com You will find good info there. I loved the MAC intake I had on my 4.2, but I ditched it when I installed my turbocharger, obviously
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:02:58 PM EST
I'm curious as to all of the posters that stated that it increased their TQ or HP. Did you dyno it before and after? Can you post pics of the slips?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:05:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:06:53 PM EST
I never put my truck on the dyno until I had to get it dynotuned after my turbo. However, I have owned this truck for 145000 miles, and 8 years of my life. I notice everything. I did notice better pull, noticably at 3500-5100rpm ish. My friend has a ton of slips, I will see if he has one for this situation.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:12:14 PM EST
I'll be honest with you, I don't think that 99% of humans could tell a difference in 5hp on an average vehicle. On a motorcycle that may only start out with 50? sure a 10% increase would be noticeable, but on a truck that starts out with 250-300? Sorry, no way. You may luck out & be right, but I bet that alot of the people that do these mods wind up LOSING 5 HP in actuality, but think they have gained.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:16:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 5:22:55 PM EST by CFII]
I take manufactuers claims as a joke, but for referece, MAC claims about 12.6 rwhp for the 4.2 F150 intake. I know that is BS. BUT, our intake is a restrictive joke, and if one starts modifying the engine, it needs to be addressed. Some of the effect of easy bolts ons are amplified by other serious mods. I did not install my CAI intake until I already had ported heads, a hot cam, headers, true duals, UD pullies, etc etc etc. I felt a difference, and I know I am not the usual weekend modder. However, no bolt on compares to 10psi of turbo boost
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:29:29 PM EST
An amsoil filter won't mess up your sensors if you follow the directions, just don't overoil. Better airflow and much cleaner than K&N, based on oil analysis and dyno testing in a V8 tundra. Oil filters are superb as well.

K&N filters are definately dirtier than paper or foam, I've seen the difference in the oil.

The previous posts about intake/exhaust are spot on, keep it balanced. I'd start with exhaust and a chip before I went with an open filter unless the stock intake is really restrictive, and I doubt it is on a mustang.

I've seen stock airboxes opened up (marine deck port, no commitments) with a high-flow filter work too.

An intake almost always needs a chip change to take advantage of the air, otherwise you'll just confuse the EMC.

I prefer nitrous to super or turbochargers, just don't over do it, it isn't any harder on your engine if you're talking about the same HP increase, and it's on-demand only, and cheaper.

Most people who get started playing around with go-fast goodies on a modern engine end up spending a lot of money, not seeing much improvement, trading in MPG, driveability, and reliability or all of the above.

Be careful out there.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:40:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
I'm curious as to all of the posters that stated that it increased their TQ or HP. Did you dyno it before and after? Can you post pics of the slips?



actually yes it was dynoed, but I dont need to post pics cuz I dont really give a damn if you need proof.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:44:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
My law firm just picked up a new client.

Young lady (16 YOA) used her savings to buy a nice used car, 2002 model year, from a local dealership. They didn't tell her that the car had been "riced" up and "tuned" including by addition of a cold air intake.

Here's the problem. Cold air intakes route the intake area downward within the engine compartment. Well, this young lady got caught in a heavy rain event, and sploshed her way through some high water. That cold air intake she didn't know about sucked some water right into the engine. Unlike air, water does not compress. The result: Broken piston rod, cracked crank shaft, and a blown engine. Surely if this kid understood the risks, she would not have tried to drive the car in foot deep water. On the other hand, all the other cars on the road that day -- which take their air from the top of the engine compartment -- were doing just fine.

Take that for what' its worth.




TOO common a problem with this
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:45:15 PM EST
hydrolock is a bitch
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:46:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By norman74:
I'm curious as to all of the posters that stated that it increased their TQ or HP. Did you dyno it before and after? Can you post pics of the slips?



actually yes it was dynoed, but I dont need to post pics cuz I dont really give a damn if you need proof.



I'll go ahead and put you down for "no" then.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:46:55 PM EST
Fucking K&N filter is a paper element.
Fucking K&N is an oil filter.
A fucking K&N filter works BETTER when it is dirty.
If the oil coming off of a K&N filter is dirty when it's being cleaned it means that it has DONE IT'S FUCKING JOB!!

Amsoil is nothing but pure 100% bullshit.


Originally Posted By K2QB3:
An amsoil filter won't mess up your sensors if you follow the directions, just don't overoil. Better airflow and much cleaner than K&N, based on oil analysis and dyno testing in a V8 tundra. Oil filters are superb as well.

K&N filters are definately dirtier than paper or foam, I've seen the difference in the oil.

quote]
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 6:46:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By norman74:
I'm curious as to all of the posters that stated that it increased their TQ or HP. Did you dyno it before and after? Can you post pics of the slips?



actually yes it was dynoed, but I dont need to post pics cuz I dont really give a damn if you need proof.





J
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:03:11 PM EST
I have an SAE intake on my '96 Impala SS.

It made a noitceable difference in mid-range accelleration.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:04:29 PM EST
Sounds like a quote from that "internet vs real life" video clip...


Originally Posted By gaspain:
actually yes it was dynoed, but I dont need to post pics cuz I dont really give a damn if you need proof.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:11:17 PM EST
HP claims are BS but the efficiency is definately improved. MPG went from 21 avg to 23 avg, plus it sounds cool
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:14:00 PM EST
You can get some really good info here from folks who have a lot of expereince with Mustangs... this is kind of like AR15.COM for Mustang owners:

http://www.corral.net/forums/
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:17:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:20:03 PM EST by chrome1]

Originally Posted By luger355:
Apparently this little item is the greatest thing since sliced bread.



I get questions like this every day .... So what’s one more going to hurt

OK ..... here’s the deal , If any of these magic Slip In , Clip On , Snap Over , Drop In gizmos did what they claim to do . You can bet your ass that the manufactures would use it instead of spending Millions of dollars and thousands of hours in testing designs for fine tuning existing engine/Induction/Ignition systems just to get 1-2% increase in power output .


Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:27:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:27:43 PM EST by DavidC]

Originally Posted By norman74:
I'm curious as to all of the posters that stated that it increased their TQ or HP. Did you dyno it before and after? Can you post pics of the slips?



Back in 97 I did a bunch of bolt on mods, on the dyno, to determine if they would give any improvement to my 96 Trans Am. The K&N cold air intake for the LT1 gave a peak improvement of 8 RWHP. More importantly, it lifted both the tq and hp curves over the entire RPM range. Sorry, I don't have the dyno reports for that far back.

As fart as the arguement "If it really worked the OEM would have done it" the poster obviously has missed the entire point of most car manufacturer's production; spend as little money as possible. Adding $200 to the cost of a car to do something only the gearheads will appreciate doesn't make economic sense.

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:28:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
How is the air closer to the asphalt cooler than the air farther from the asphalt?



It more has to do with engine compartment temps and heated air and getting regular temp air. The air isnt "cold" its just cooler than the engine bay ambient air. The real temp difference is 65 deg vs. 120 deg air. Cooler air is denser and the more dense the air the more O2 is packed in, thus makingyour engine run more effiecent on the same amount of gas. More efficency is translated as more power.

So yea its a good thing



Is it the heat riser from the exaust manifold that is making the temp difference or something else? Maybe I'm dense but I just can't picture the dynamics at work here. From what I've seen of these kits they have an uninsulated aluminum tube with a sock filter or paper can. It looks like the aluminum tube would be a heat sink as compared to a plastic duct. My old junkers will never benifit from this technology but I'd like to understand it anyway.

Usefull performance enhancer or clever marketing?
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:07:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
How is the air closer to the asphalt cooler than the air farther from the asphalt?



It more has to do with engine compartment temps and heated air and getting regular temp air. The air isnt "cold" its just cooler than the engine bay ambient air. The real temp difference is 65 deg vs. 120 deg air. Cooler air is denser and the more dense the air the more O2 is packed in, thus making your engine run more effiecent on the same amount of gas. More efficency is translated as more power.

So yea its a good thing



Couldn't have put it better myself.

As a rough rule of thumb, every 10 degree F. drop in air intake temperature is good for a 1 to 2 percent increase in horsepower. If the air inside your engine compartment is 145 degrees and the air outside is 70 degrees, you're looking at a 7 to 15 percent increase in power – not too shabby! Note that the power increase occurs at ALL engine speeds, since cooler air improves combustion efficiency at all speeds – You won't have to flog it to notice the difference.

Obviously, a well-designed cold air intake kit should prevent any potential problems with ingesting water from heavy rainstorms or high water.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:40:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By chrome1:

Originally Posted By luger355:
Apparently this little item is the greatest thing since sliced bread.



I get questions like this every day .... So what’s one more going to hurt

OK ..... here’s the deal , If any of these magic Slip In , Clip On , Snap Over , Drop In gizmos did what they claim to do . You can bet your ass that the manufactures would use it instead of spending Millions of dollars and thousands of hours in testing designs for fine tuning existing engine/Induction/Ignition systems just to get 1-2% increase in power output .





I think for does offer a similar item i think they call it a mass air conversion kit.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:42:18 AM EST
I had a 95 Z28 with a LT-1 and a 6 speed. I added a Borla 3" Cat-back and noticed a minimal performance change, but it did sound good. I added the Moroso Cold air intake and it made a much more noticeable difference. I never had it dyno'd, but it definitely increased low end torque. Before adding the intake I had to lightly slip the clutch/addd gas pedal, when pulling smoothly away from a dead stop. After the intake I need no throttle at all to get it rolling. I just let the clutch out and it would idle away from a stop smoothly. It would MUCH easier light up the tires especially after shifting gearss than it did prior to he mods. My gas milage actually went up a couple miles when I could "stay off the loud pedal". As far as the water related issue, on my car it fit under the nose of the car under a panel that stopped water from entering the intake. I went through DEEP water and rains without an issue. Easy and low dollar performance adder.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:58:50 AM EST
For what its worth I put a K&N FIPK and a Flowmaster Force II kit in my 2001 GMC Sierra Z71 with the 5.3. Very nice. My next step is a Hypertech tuner.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:31:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 9:36:07 AM EST by Skibane]

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Is it the heat riser from the exaust manifold that is making the temp difference or something else? Maybe I'm dense but I just can't picture the dynamics at work here. From what I've seen of these kits they have an uninsulated aluminum tube with a sock filter or paper can. It looks like the aluminum tube would be a heat sink as compared to a plastic duct. My old junkers will never benifit from this technology but I'd like to understand it anyway.

Usefull performance enhancer or clever marketing?



The kits you're talking about don't pull in cold air from outside, so their only advantages are the use of a less-restrictive air filter (maybe) and some "tuning" effects from the size and length of the aluminum tube (doubtful).

A real "cold air induction kit" has some sort of snorkel that pulls in air from outside. The difference in air temperature is what makes it work (although some kits are also helped by the use a less-restrictive air filter and air tubing).


Originally Posted By JETWC:
I had a 95 Z28 with a LT-1 and a 6 speed. I added a Borla 3" Cat-back and noticed a minimal performance change, but it did sound good. I added the Moroso Cold air intake and it made a much more noticeable difference. I never had it dyno'd, but it definitely increased low end torque.



Yep, folks tend to notice the most drastic improvments only after they "uncork" both sides of the airflow path (intake and exhaust).
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:45:57 AM EST
I have seen many mustangs have problems with those air filter kits. the bend in the tubing is too close to the MAF sensor and the air flow gets bent up against the outside bend of the tubing causing it to not flow properly over the MAF sensor. BUYER BEWARE.

K&N no thanks.

Stop by a dealership and aska drivability tech about the air intakes, you will get the same answer.



Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:53:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Skibane:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Is it the heat riser from the exaust manifold that is making the temp difference or something else? Maybe I'm dense but I just can't picture the dynamics at work here. From what I've seen of these kits they have an uninsulated aluminum tube with a sock filter or paper can. It looks like the aluminum tube would be a heat sink as compared to a plastic duct. My old junkers will never benifit from this technology but I'd like to understand it anyway.

Usefull performance enhancer or clever marketing?



The kits you're talking about don't pull in cold air from outside, so their only advantages are the use of a less-restrictive air filter (maybe) and some "tuning" effects from the size and length of the aluminum tube (doubtful).

A real "cold air induction kit" has some sort of snorkel that pulls in air from outside. The difference in air temperature is what makes it work (although some kits are also helped by the use a less-restrictive air filter and air tubing).


Originally Posted By JETWC:
I had a 95 Z28 with a LT-1 and a 6 speed. I added a Borla 3" Cat-back and noticed a minimal performance change, but it did sound good. I added the Moroso Cold air intake and it made a much more noticeable difference. I never had it dyno'd, but it definitely increased low end torque.



Yep, folks tend to notice the most drastic improvments only after they "uncork" both sides of the airflow path (intake and exhaust).



Ah so. Thanks for the info.
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