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Posted: 9/28/2005 11:51:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 12:05:28 AM EDT by PeteCO]
"High gas costs blamed"? Gee, how about morons that charge gas, groceries and the electric bill on credit cards because the BMW lease is so expensive?

(Naturally, the BMW was leased in the first place because it would be just unacceptable to have even a shred of safety margin in one's budget to accomodate unexpected events like a spike in gas prices.)

Eh, no problem - they can just refinance their house, yet again, once those cards are maxed out. Again. The "sophisticated" middle-class investor strikes again.

If there is a housing bubble, when it pops this country will be in DEEEEP excrement.

(How convenient that the new bankruptcy laws roughly coincide with increased minimum payments, btw.)



=====================================================

Gas Prices Blamed For Record Past-Due Credit Accounts

By Jeannine Aversa
Associated Press
September 28, 2005
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/credit/2005-09-28-past-due-credit_x.htm

WASHINGTON — The percentage of credit card payments that were past due shot up to a record 4.81% in the second quarter as surging gasoline prices strained budgets and made it difficult for some people to pay their bills.

The American Bankers Association said Wednesday that the seasonally adjusted percentage of credit card accounts 30 or more days past due in the April-to-June quarter was the highest since the association began collecting this information in 1973. That follows a delinquency rate of 4.76% in the first quarter.

"The rise in gas prices is really stretching budgets to the breaking point for some people," the association's chief economist, Jim Chessen, said in an interview. "Gas prices are taking huge chunks out of wallets, leaving some individuals with little left to meet their financial obligations."

And that report was for a period before Hurricanes Katrina and Rita send energy prices into the stratosphere.

While Chessen mostly blamed high gasoline prices for the rise in credit card delinquencies, other factors played a role, he said.

With personal savings rates dismally low, people have less of a cushion to absorb the big jumps in energy, Chessen said. The personal savings rate dipped to a record low, negative 0.6%, in July.

Rising borrowing costs also probably contributed to the spike in credit card delinquencies, he said.

The Federal Reserve has been tightening credit since June 2004. That has caused commercial banks' prime lending rate to rise to 6.75%, highest in four years. That rate is used as the base rate for many short-term consumer and business loans, including some credit cards and popular home equity lines of credit.

After Hurricane Katrina, gasoline prices jumped past $3 a gallon before calming down. Although damage to oil facilities was less than feared from Hurricane Rita, economists expect energy prices to stay high.

The double blow from the two hurricanes is expected to slow economic activity and hiring in the months ahead, economists say.

Against that backdrop, credit card delinquencies are likely to remain high in the coming quarters, Chessen suggested.

The association's survey also showed that the delinquency rate on a composite of other types of consumers loans, including auto loans and home equity loans, climbed to 2.22% in the second quarter, up from 2.03% in the first quarter.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/credit/2005-09-28-past-due-credit_x.htm
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 12:33:17 AM EDT
And given the fact that minimum payments are about to DOUBLE in most cases, you're going to see a LOT more of this and many people hitting the wall when it comes to servicing their debt.

Thank God I'm in the process of paying ALL of mine off to ZERO otherwise I'd be looking for a cliff to jump off of.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 1:26:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 1:27:25 AM EDT by elkmontarms]
I say piss on the credit card company exec's. People signed contract's to pay a fixed min amount a month and then the Credit Card Corp. break that contract via (paid off politicians) new law's and try's to screw people. It's bad enough that they can charge the rates they get but, this is almost criminal in my eyes. That sounds more like a Mafia then a company. Many people get in a tight bind time to time and all they can make is the min for a month or two. That's like getting a fixed rate 30 year mortage and finding out that the bank just decides to break the contract and payment is now do in full next week.

I see more and more folks living on the edge and it scares the hell out of me. I am not talking about people living beyond there means or welfare folks either. These are hard working folks some have two jobs, old cars and a modest house and they are just getting by. This hike in fuel cost is going to break the back of what is left of the economy. All I know is that I have 2 jobs and my Wife works and it is getting harder every month just to get by. It cost us double what it did last year just to fill our Propane tank for the house. We both have fair paying jobs and very little debt besides our house payment. Everything is going up in price except our pay. I don't care how cheap the stuff is at China-Mart if folks don't have money they can't spend it. What little is left of the hard working middle and upper middle class is on it's way out. I think that all of our standard of living is about to change in this Country





Link Posted: 9/29/2005 4:56:44 AM EDT

in this new era of enlightened thinking, personal responsibility is an unneeded concept.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:00:31 AM EDT
I don't exactly have a "low" balance on my one and only card (about $3,200) but I am at least paying it off ($250 per payment). Hell my minimum is only $30. I don't understand how hard it is to keep track of your debt.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:01:43 AM EDT
People living on the edge financially. Lets face it, a lot of people live check to check, and plastic has become the way of fulfilling the American dream. With gas, utilities, etc taking jumps of 30-100% over the past few years, and people only getting raises of maybe 2-3 %, theres no way income has been able to keep pace with rising bills for people that don't have a financial buffer.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:05:05 AM EDT
And don't forget to add in Tax increases also.......Our cost of living has gone up about 1/3 in the last year with NO pay raises...................I checked on heating oil price a few weeks ago and it was $2.59 a gallon.......................so stuff your personal responsibility and stop stealing my money!!
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:09:34 AM EDT
If you are living paycheck to paycheck and the cost to drive to work just doubled WTF are you supposed to do? Not go to work? A lot of people are in tight spots and the high gas prices are killing them. Wait until winter hits and it's going to get worse. Natural Gas has doubled in price from last year, from January through March I usually run a $300 to $400 gas bill...and that is with a heat pump as my main source of heat. That type of bill kills me and there is no way I can pay twice that amount. I'm not that bad off either and know there are a lot of people much worse than I am. What are they going to do to get by?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:09:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:10:41 AM EDT by RSF45]
Heard that on the radio this morning, still makes me laugh.
Heaven forbid if anyone's responsible for their own fucking actions....
I was in deep in credit card debt like many Americans, and it was nobody's fault but mine.
Fuck all these whiners....


Now ask me how I really feel
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:11:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:18:08 AM EDT by napalm]

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Thank God I'm in the process of paying ALL of mine off to ZERO otherwise I'd be looking for a cliff to jump off of.




Yep, and when they're paid down to zero, they're gone. I'll keep one around just for giggles, but it's getting paid off every month.



ETA:


It's times like these that I'm glad I live in Phoenix. My utility costs drop dramatically in the winter, so I don't have to worry about paying near twice as much over the winter like a lot of you guys do. It's just one less thing I have to worry about paying.

Small consolation for the rest of you guys, I know.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:12:59 AM EDT
By far the best solution is to not use credit cards to begin with. Somehow we have discarded the old way of thinking about buying things on credit.

It took me quite a few years to get out of the vicious cycle of buying things on credit, and then attempting to pay off the balance. It is not worth it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:14:22 AM EDT
I'm currently pulling my ass outta debt (three more payments left, then I can start looking at new toys to save up for again, whoohoo!)

If this had happened back before I woke up and "saw the light" so to speak, I'd be in the position of choosing "do I pay for gas to get to work, or do I make the CC payment". So I can understand how it happens to people. I won't make up excuses, just saying I understand the choice people can force themselves into.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:14:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
If you are living paycheck to paycheck and the cost to drive to work just doubled WTF are you supposed to do? Not go to work? A lot of people are in tight spots and the high gas prices are killing them. Wait until winter hits and it's going to get worse. Natural Gas has doubled in price from last year, from January through March I usually run a $300 to $400 gas bill...and that is with a heat pump as my main source of heat. That type of bill kills me and there is no way I can pay twice that amount. I'm not that bad off either and know there are a lot of people much worse than I am. What are they going to do to get by?

Blame the environmentalists for increased regulations, blocking refineries and off shore drilling.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:15:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
And don't forget to add in Tax increases also.......

Don't forget that it is OUR responsibility to rebuild NOLA!
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:17:05 AM EDT
My give a shit meter is broken. Most people (not all, but most) are in the financial straits they are in due to one reason - themselves. Stop eating out for lunch every day, stop getting that Venti Latte, that shiny new handgun/ACOG/rifle every few months, turn the thermostat down, sell the shiny $30,000 truck that gets 15 mpg, tell the wife she doesn't have to get new shoes every two weeks, don't buy a 2500 sq. foot home for 3 people in a household, etc.

An extra $100 or so a month should never be enough to "break the bank" - I don't understand how anyone can live that close every month. If you earn $2500 a month take home, spend $2000 or less a month on expenses. Always have a cushion that allows you to absorb things like this.

Hell, in 1990 when I got married, the first 5 years of my marriage our combined income was less than $20,000 a year and we never incurred any debt and lived within our means and were happy. Now that we are approaching 6 figures, we still live almost the same way as we did back then. I drive a car with 220,000 miles on it that still gets 40 mpg, and I drive 100 miles a day. It can be done, but not when you feel like you are owed all the goodies all the time and can't tighten the belt a little.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:17:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Thank God I'm in the process of paying ALL of mine off to ZERO otherwise I'd be looking for a cliff to jump off of.




Yep, and when they're paid down to zero, they're gone. I'll keep one around just for giggles, but it's getting paid off every month.




I'm not even keeping one around once I make that last payment. It already has a firey end reserved for it. I'd rather set aside a certain amount in the checking account for "oh shit" money.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:17:45 AM EDT
I'll whine about the raping I'm taking at the gas pump. I'm in the process of composing a nice letter to all my elected officials on just that topic. You are an idiot if you think all is well and that the gas prices we have today should not be the topic of complaints. We are getting fucked in the wallet left and right and I'm sick of it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:21:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Thank God I'm in the process of paying ALL of mine off to ZERO otherwise I'd be looking for a cliff to jump off of.




Yep, and when they're paid down to zero, they're gone. I'll keep one around just for giggles, but it's getting paid off every month.




I'm not even keeping one around once I make that last payment. It already has a firey end reserved for it. I'd rather set aside a certain amount in the checking account for "oh shit" money.




Yeah, but then you'll have bad credit because you don't have any credit.




Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:21:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:
I'll whine about the raping I'm taking at the gas pump. I'm in the process of composing a nice letter to all my elected officials on just that topic. You are an idiot if you think all is well and that the gas prices we have today should not be the topic of complaints. We are getting fucked in the wallet left and right and I'm sick of it.



Adjusted for inflation, we are paying the same for gas as we paid in the 1980s.

Face it - properly adjusted gas prices (I won't call them "high") are here to stay. Nothing you do, say, write, etc. will change that fact. The only control you have is over your own situation. Get a car that gets better MPG, drive less, drive slower, or cut expenses elsewhere to cover the increased costs. Get used to it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:24:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:26:04 AM EDT by PBIR]
I'm not concerned about the '80s, I'm concerned about the 59% increase in pricing over the last several months without a corresponding wage increase and the weakened condition this puts our country in.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:25:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
My give a shit meter is broken. Most people (not all, but most) are in the financial straits they are in due to one reason - themselves. Stop eating out for lunch every day, stop getting that Venti Latte, that shiny new handgun/ACOG/rifle every few months, turn the thermostat down, sell the shiny $30,000 truck that gets 15 mpg, tell the wife she doesn't have to get new shoes every two weeks, don't buy a 2500 sq. foot home for 3 people in a household, etc.

An extra $100 or so a month should never be enough to "break the bank" - I don't understand how anyone can live that close every month. If you earn $2500 a month take home, spend $2000 or less a month on expenses. Always have a cushion that allows you to absorb things like this.

Hell, in 1990 when I got married, the first 5 years of my marriage our combined income was less than $20,000 a year and we never incurred any debt and lived within our means and were happy. Now that we are approaching 6 figures, we still live almost the same way as we did back then. I drive a car with 220,000 miles on it that still gets 40 mpg, and I drive 100 miles a day. It can be done, but not when you feel like you are owed all the goodies all the time and can't tighten the belt a little.



Kids? School? Mortgage? Everyone story is different. 2500 take home is what..a gross salary ofaround 43-45,000. I know a lot of people who don't make anywhere near that. If you start out with no bills and geta fairly good paying job righta way, I can see where you could pull that off....but I don't think the average person could. Heck, in many parts of this country, 45K a year is starvation wages......
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:26:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:29:24 AM EDT by QUIB]

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
If you are living paycheck to paycheck and the cost to drive to work just doubled WTF are you supposed to do? Not go to work? A lot of people are in tight spots and the high gas prices are killing them. Wait until winter hits and it's going to get worse. Natural Gas has doubled in price from last year, from January through March I usually run a $300 to $400 gas bill...and that is with a heat pump as my main source of heat. That type of bill kills me and there is no way I can pay twice that amount. I'm not that bad off either and know there are a lot of people much worse than I am. What are they going to do to get by?



+1 brother you got it right!

Quite a few of my bills are now being paid later. As I get my money, they’ll get theirs.

I was doing alright up till last year when I got laid off (airlines). I am now back with another airline but at half the pay! Had to put Frau Quib to work to make ends meet. A new career is in need.

And I only have one credit card with a balance of $600, which is used for emergency purposes. So it’s not like I’m blowing away money, it just only stretches so far.

And I by no means live over my income, budget consists of:

-mortgage on a 60 year old house
-insurance on two cars(both cars are used, no payments).
-basic utilities
-the lowest DishNetwork package available, mainly for the kids.
-cell phones, lowest package available. I go on trips occasionally from work and need to stay in contact with the family.
-basic Juno ISP

And that’s it. Not much fat there to trim! It’s just not easy out there right now and those gas prices don’t help! I haven’t filled up my vehicle since the prices went up. $20 bucks at a time just gets me to work for the week and that’s mainly because I have a 4 on 3 off, 3 on 4 off schedule which cuts down my driving back and forth!

We’re making it, but it can be tight at times!
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:26:59 AM EDT
Yep, people live paycheck to paycheck and CC's are about the only source of emergency funds.
Also, what do you do when your fuel bill for getting to work doubles in one year....you gotta find the money somehwere. Personally ours went from like 200+ to almost 500 now a month. Thats alot of dough. For people getting by on what they earn (and for arguments sake, lets not figure in that they are doing a $70 bill for one restaurant visit once aweek...cause they probably aren't) this extra money is the only extra money they might have had a month to use for emergencies, doctors visits, etc... Its a real problem now. I have seen it in retail...peoples disposable income..and for some part..necessary income has had to be diverted elsewhere (gas) so they cant pay something.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:30:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
My give a shit meter is broken. Most people (not all, but most) are in the financial straits they are in due to one reason - themselves. Stop eating out for lunch every day, stop getting that Venti Latte, that shiny new handgun/ACOG/rifle every few months, turn the thermostat down, sell the shiny $30,000 truck that gets 15 mpg, tell the wife she doesn't have to get new shoes every two weeks, don't buy a 2500 sq. foot home for 3 people in a household, etc.

An extra $100 or so a month should never be enough to "break the bank" - I don't understand how anyone can live that close every month. If you earn $2500 a month take home, spend $2000 or less a month on expenses. Always have a cushion that allows you to absorb things like this.

Hell, in 1990 when I got married, the first 5 years of my marriage our combined income was less than $20,000 a year and we never incurred any debt and lived within our means and were happy. Now that we are approaching 6 figures, we still live almost the same way as we did back then. I drive a car with 220,000 miles on it that still gets 40 mpg, and I drive 100 miles a day. It can be done, but not when you feel like you are owed all the goodies all the time and can't tighten the belt a little.



In 1990 gas was about a buck a gallon. $2.79 looks ok to you b/c now you and your spouse are "approaching 6 figures". I bet you an AR you wouldn't feel that way if you were still around 20-30k a year. Easy to be complacent when you have money in the bank - the true opiate of society.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:31:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
My give a shit meter is broken. Most people (not all, but most) are in the financial straits they are in due to one reason - themselves. Stop eating out for lunch every day, stop getting that Venti Latte, that shiny new handgun/ACOG/rifle every few months, turn the thermostat down, sell the shiny $30,000 truck that gets 15 mpg, tell the wife she doesn't have to get new shoes every two weeks, don't buy a 2500 sq. foot home for 3 people in a household, etc.

An extra $100 or so a month should never be enough to "break the bank" - I don't understand how anyone can live that close every month. If you earn $2500 a month take home, spend $2000 or less a month on expenses. Always have a cushion that allows you to absorb things like this.

Hell, in 1990 when I got married, the first 5 years of my marriage our combined income was less than $20,000 a year and we never incurred any debt and lived within our means and were happy. Now that we are approaching 6 figures, we still live almost the same way as we did back then. I drive a car with 220,000 miles on it that still gets 40 mpg, and I drive 100 miles a day. It can be done, but not when you feel like you are owed all the goodies all the time and can't tighten the belt a little.



+1000


I am working on my sister's budget right now. They have 4 vehicle payments, $17000 in CC debt, a second mortgage, and they eat out almost every meal and then wonder why, after making $75K a year between the two of them, they have no money.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:34:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CbtEngr1:
Yep, people live paycheck to paycheck and CC's are about the only source of emergency funds.
Also, what do you do when your fuel bill for getting to work doubles in one year....you gotta find the money somehwere. Personally ours went from like 200+ to almost 500 now a month. Thats alot of dough. For people getting by on what they earn (and for arguments sake, lets not figure in that they are doing a $70 bill for one restaurant visit once aweek...cause they probably aren't) this extra money is the only extra money they might have had a month to use for emergencies, doctors visits, etc... Its a real problem now. I have seen it in retail...peoples disposable income..and for some part..necessary income has had to be diverted elsewhere (gas) so they cant pay something.




Yea, didn’t even figure in food. We DO NOT eat out like other families! Most of my wife’s co-workers eat out every night! For my family of 4 that would be over $40 a night!

We go out to eat at the most 3 times a year, and one of those times is for our anniversary!

Out of both our combined incomes, Mrs. Quib gets her household money and it has to stretch for two weeks till the next payday.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:36:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
If you are living paycheck to paycheck and the cost to drive to work just doubled WTF are you supposed to do? Not go to work? A lot of people are in tight spots and the high gas prices are killing them. Wait until winter hits and it's going to get worse. Natural Gas has doubled in price from last year, from January through March I usually run a $300 to $400 gas bill...and that is with a heat pump as my main source of heat. That type of bill kills me and there is no way I can pay twice that amount. I'm not that bad off either and know there are a lot of people much worse than I am. What are they going to do to get by?

Blame the environmentalists for increased regulations, blocking refineries and off shore drilling.




You forgot to add Bush to the list of people people to blame. Five years in office and he still hasn't passed an energy plan. Of course the fact that he appointed a politician from Michigan who previously worked to get the Department of Energy disbanded to run the department probably wasn't a smart move either. Isn't it interesting how as soon as a large portion of the country is financially hurting from the high gas prices Bush suddenly wants to rush through legislation to speed up the approval process for refineries. Why didn't he do this 5 years ago! I mean come on, he has had control of the House and the Senate the whole time...and he's just now getting off his ass to do something.

Oh, but I don't know why anyone is really complaining about fuel costs, according to the Bush's advisor fuel prices are only a moderate concern and have had no real effect on the economy. He actually said that 2 days ago. With advisors like that it's no wonder Bush is looking out of touch.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:48:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
Adjusted for inflation, we are paying the same for gas as we paid in the 1980s.



That’s all fine and dandy if your income rises as inflation rises!

I’m making less now per hour than I was 13 years ago when I got out of the military!

Do you think a 39 year old A&P mechanic with 20+ years of experience working for the airlines deserves $13.50 per hour?

Try living off that! My first job in aviation out of the Army I was making $16/hour and that was 1992! Back then that was good!

And before anyone starts in……..yes I’m working on getting OUT of aviation!
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:51:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 5:52:43 AM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By SWIRE:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
If you are living paycheck to paycheck and the cost to drive to work just doubled WTF are you supposed to do? Not go to work? A lot of people are in tight spots and the high gas prices are killing them. Wait until winter hits and it's going to get worse. Natural Gas has doubled in price from last year, from January through March I usually run a $300 to $400 gas bill...and that is with a heat pump as my main source of heat. That type of bill kills me and there is no way I can pay twice that amount. I'm not that bad off either and know there are a lot of people much worse than I am. What are they going to do to get by?

Blame the environmentalists for increased regulations, blocking refineries and off shore drilling.




You forgot to add Bush to the list of people people to blame. Five years in office and he still hasn't passed an energy plan. Blah blah blah bunch of other shit



No, Bush has advocated strongly to drill domestically after Clinton cock-blocked it for 8 years. Increasing the supply and creating good jobs sounds like a plan to me. A lot more important than caribou, even if it was harmful to them, which it isn't.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 5:57:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:

Thank God I'm in the process of paying ALL of mine off to ZERO otherwise I'd be looking for a cliff to jump off of.




Yep, and when they're paid down to zero, they're gone. I'll keep one around just for giggles, but it's getting paid off every month.




I'm not even keeping one around once I make that last payment. It already has a firey end reserved for it. I'd rather set aside a certain amount in the checking account for "oh shit" money.



You really should keep ONE around. Ever tried to reserve a hotel room, a rental car, or book an airline reservation without one?
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:04:42 AM EDT
When we discussed bankruptcy, I told my wife, "We bought this stuff, we're gonna pay for it." I swear, it's the only way to keep more stuff from showing up!

Just the same, the credit card companies are thievies. As I pay off a loan, I end our business relationship, permenantly.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:05:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
You forgot to add Bush to the list of people people to blame. Five years in office and he still hasn't passed an energy plan.



Amazing..........blame Bush. You forget that Bubba had 8 years and didn't come up with one. Reagan never did and so on, so fuck blaming Bush.

It is amazing that a group who espouses personal responsibility wants to blame someone for this stuff. You don't like gas prices, get something that gets better mileage, thus reducing your cost. If enough people do that, the demand might drop enough to force prices down.

If someone proposed banning gas guzzlers, or a whopping tax on them, you would be screaming bloody murder about the "gubmint", yet you want to blame the "gubmint", specifically Bush, for this problem along with apparently everything else in the world.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:07:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
If you are living paycheck to paycheck and the cost to drive to work just doubled WTF are you supposed to do? Not go to work? A lot of people are in tight spots and the high gas prices are killing them. Wait until winter hits and it's going to get worse. Natural Gas has doubled in price from last year, from January through March I usually run a $300 to $400 gas bill...and that is with a heat pump as my main source of heat. That type of bill kills me and there is no way I can pay twice that amount. I'm not that bad off either and know there are a lot of people much worse than I am. What are they going to do to get by?

Blame the environmentalists for increased regulations, blocking refineries and off shore drilling.




You forgot to add Bush to the list of people people to blame. Five years in office and he still hasn't passed an energy plan. Blah blah blah bunch of other shit



No, Bush has advocated strongly to drill domestically after Clinton cock-blocked it for 8 years. Increasing the supply and creating good jobs sounds like a plan to me. A lot more important than caribou, even if it was harmful to them, which it isn't.




Bush has also advocated banning assualt weapons...are you going to praise him for that to? Words don't mean a thing if you don't back them up with action. Bush has sat on his hands until now when it comes to actually getting something done.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:08:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:

I am working on my sister's budget right now. They have 4 vehicle payments, $17000 in CC debt, a second mortgage, and they eat out almost every meal and then wonder why, after making $75K a year between the two of them, they have no money.




You can have a good meal for 3 or 4 at home for $8, it costs nearly that much a person to go out.

"But its cheaper to go out to eat" is what I hear from people. Whatever.

We've been living high on the hog for years in this country, and its going to come home to roost. Gasoline, around here, sold for like 1.10-1.30 for nearly 20 years it seemed. I never remember it really going up. You cant bank on that forever, prices stabilize and equal out. Basic Econ 10 here.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:16:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
You forgot to add Bush to the list of people people to blame. Five years in office and he still hasn't passed an energy plan.



Amazing..........blame Bush. You forget that Bubba had 8 years and didn't come up with one. Reagan never did and so on, so fuck blaming Bush.




Oh, so since Clinton didn't do anything it's perfectly fine that Bush didn't? Is that how low Bush has sunk, "at least he's not any worse than Clinton". Jeez, do you listen to what you are saying? And I didn't saying it was all Bush's fault but that he is on the list of people to blame because has not taken any action in 5 years even though the Republican's control Congress. The fact that he is jumping to it now and making it happen quick is proof he could have done this years ago. So yes, he is partially to blame by his failure to do anything until now.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:21:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 6:22:26 AM EDT by rxdawg]

Adjusted for inflation, we are paying the same for gas as we paid in the 1980s.

Face it - properly adjusted gas prices (I won't call them "high") are here to stay. Nothing you do, say, write, etc. will change that fact. The only control you have is over your own situation. Get a car that gets better MPG, drive less, drive slower, or cut expenses elsewhere to cover the increased costs. Get used to it.



Yep. Gas prices have really effected me too - I buy Wolf ammo now instead of XM193.

Seriously, if you are living so close to the edge then change your situation. My wife and I both work currently, but we did fine for almost a year on my salary alone. We live below our means. No McMansion, vehicles paid off, no CC debt. You cant have it all now and pay for it later.

Get used to it, indeed. It isnt going away. Make changes now to anticipate increases in the future.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:25:02 AM EDT
The party is over. People are going to have to make some tough choices and live within their means. Just like the good old days.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:26:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
You forgot to add Bush to the list of people people to blame. Five years in office and he still hasn't passed an energy plan.



Amazing..........blame Bush. You forget that Bubba had 8 years and didn't come up with one. Reagan never did and so on, so fuck blaming Bush.




Oh, so since Clinton didn't do anything it's perfectly fine that Bush didn't? Is that how low Bush has sunk, "at least he's not any worse than Clinton". Jeez, do you listen to what you are saying? And I didn't saying it was all Bush's fault but that he is on the list of people to blame because has not taken any action in 5 years even though the Republican's control Congress. The fact that he is jumping to it now and making it happen quick is proof he could have done this years ago. So yes, he is partially to blame by his failure to do anything until now.



Oh bullshit. Personal responsibilty. Ever heard of it? Drive a more fuel efficient vehicle. The only ones to blame are the American consumers.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 6:45:07 AM EDT
So, what are you going to do about it? Whine, bitch, moan, pull out your hair, gnash your teeth, write a letter?

Or are you going to sit down, seriously reconsider your budgetary priorities, and learn to deal with it?

I was unhappy with my wages, so I manned up, worked my ass off part-time while putting myself through school (no loans, no grants, etc.) Bought a very cheap house in a bad neighborhood and fixed it up so I'd be closer to school/work. Graduated from school and landed a good job. All the while driving an old, used car and not eating out or buying loads of guns and crap I didn't need.

I'm sure if you really looked hard, you'd find places to cut your budgetary outlays.

Complaining about it isn't going to do anything but raise your blood pressure.

And for the record, if my wife and I were still making low wages, we'd get by just fine.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:01:46 AM EDT
I have yet to figure out how it is profitable for credit card companies to give out credit so freely. How can you make money when you give a guy $5000 to buy a fancy new plasma TV and then he declares bancruptcy after hocking the same TV for $250? I guess those of us who are responsible with our cards pay for it all in higher interest rates. Punish the good guys so they can cater to the assholes...
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:02:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
So, what are you going to do about it? Whine, bitch, moan, pull out your hair, gnash your teeth, write a letter?

Or are you going to sit down, seriously reconsider your budgetary priorities, and learn to deal with it?

I was unhappy with my wages, so I manned up, worked my ass off part-time while putting myself through school (no loans, no grants, etc.) Bought a very cheap house in a bad neighborhood and fixed it up so I'd be closer to school/work. Graduated from school and landed a good job. All the while driving an old, used car and not eating out or buying loads of guns and crap I didn't need.

I'm sure if you really looked hard, you'd find places to cut your budgetary outlays.

Complaining about it isn't going to do anything but raise your blood pressure.

And for the record, if my wife and I were still making low wages, we'd get by just fine.



Amen, brother. I salute you. Unfortunately, less people than you think will do what you did. I have run across many people in life that would rather sit in front of the TV and bitch about how unfair things are for the rest of their lives.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:05:18 AM EDT

The percentage of credit card payments that were past due shot up to a record 4.81% in the second quarter as surging gasoline prices strained budgets and made it difficult for some people to pay their bills.

The American Bankers Association said Wednesday that the seasonally adjusted percentage of credit card accounts 30 or more days past due in the April-to-June quarter was the highest since the association began collecting this information in 1973. That follows a delinquency rate of 4.76% in the first quarter.

"The rise in gas prices is really stretching budgets to the breaking point for some people," the association's chief economist, Jim Chessen, said in an interview. "Gas prices are taking huge chunks out of wallets, leaving some individuals with little left to meet their financial obligations."



Let me get this straight. Until October 17, these people can declare bankrutcy and get credit card debt discharged and after October 17 they can't. Is it any surprise that people who are thinking of declaring bankruptcy in the next couple of weeks are running up their credit cards and not paying them off? Attributing this to higher gas prices is stupid.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:09:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 7:13:55 AM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By Greywolf2112:
So, what are you going to do about it? Whine, bitch, moan, pull out your hair, gnash your teeth, write a letter?

Or are you going to sit down, seriously reconsider your budgetary priorities, and learn to deal with it?

I was unhappy with my wages, so I manned up, worked my ass off part-time while putting myself through school (no loans, no grants, etc.) Bought a very cheap house in a bad neighborhood and fixed it up so I'd be closer to school/work. Graduated from school and landed a good job. All the while driving an old, used car and not eating out or buying loads of guns and crap I didn't need.

I'm sure if you really looked hard, you'd find places to cut your budgetary outlays.

Complaining about it isn't going to do anything but raise your blood pressure.

And for the record, if my wife and I were still making low wages, we'd get by just fine.




What makes you think you are the only one to do all that? I work & go to school fulltime + I drive a 4cylinder with 196k on the odometer and no ac. Doesn't change a thing. You're telling me the equivalent of a whole extra set of utility bills a month wouldn't have impacted you and your wife in your salad days? Sorry, but I don't buy that - or your salad days were really salad as prelude to steak later in the meal days. What I'm going to do is get by and at the same time utilize my rights as an American to garner support to put pressure on elected officials at state & federal levels to rectify this bullshit price increase. There's 22k of us at MTSU alone and I haven't found a single one in favor of the current pricing.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:12:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
I have yet to figure out how it is profitable for credit card companies to give out credit so freely. How can you make money when you give a guy $5000 to buy a fancy new plasma TV and then he declares bancruptcy after hocking the same TV for $250?



They have changed the bankruptcy laws to make it more difficult to declare bankruptcy specifically because people were abusing it.



I guess those of us who are responsible with our cards pay for it all in higher interest rates. Punish the good guys so they can cater to the assholes...



They offer credit because it does make them money over the long term. Let's say you have 10,000 dollars on your credit card. Your minimum payment would be around 200 dollars a month with the average card rate.

199 of those dollars go to paying "interest" or money directly in the bank's pocket. The other buck goes to the principal, or the ammount you borrowed. At that rate, guess how long it would take you to pay off that 10 grand?

When finally paid off using around the minimum payment, that 10 grand you borrowed will have netted the bank almost 2 or three TIMES what they actually gave you for the initial payment.

Credit cards are essentially a bank's way of getting their hooks into you for life.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:12:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
I have yet to figure out how it is profitable for credit card companies to give out credit so freely. How can you make money when you give a guy $5000 to buy a fancy new plasma TV and then he declares bancruptcy after hocking the same TV for $250? I guess those of us who are responsible with our cards pay for it all in higher interest rates. Punish the good guys so they can cater to the assholes...



They have all sorts of add on fees, and the borrowing rate is up around 25 %. Thats how they are making money.
As for the guy saying people should buy more fuel efficient cars, there are plenty of people out there who are lucky to have the car they have and keep it running and can't afford the outlay to buy an over-priced "fuel efficient "model.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:16:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:
Let me get this straight. Until October 17, these people can declare bankrutcy and get credit card debt discharged and after October 17 they can't. Is it any surprise that people who are thinking of declaring bankruptcy in the next couple of weeks are running up their credit cards and not paying them off? Attributing this to higher gas prices is stupid.



Indeed, it would seem rather silly to ignore a major shift in bankruptcy laws when discussing credit cards. But since when does the media consider things from a logical and balanced position?

There have been an increase in drive-offs with gas lately, which I cannot fathom. Seeing someone driving an Escalade with 20" chrome wheels that had to cost almost a thousand dollars EACH, and a stereo system loud enough to rattle the windows on the space station drive off rather than pay is something to behold. (Saw it the other day)

For the life of me I cannot fathom what would make people do something so utterly stupid over 50 or 60 bucks.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:17:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
I have yet to figure out how it is profitable for credit card companies to give out credit so freely. How can you make money when you give a guy $5000 to buy a fancy new plasma TV and then he declares bancruptcy after hocking the same TV for $250? I guess those of us who are responsible with our cards pay for it all in higher interest rates. Punish the good guys so they can cater to the assholes...



They have all sorts of add on fees, and the borrowing rate is up around 25 %. Thats how they are making money.
As for the guy saying people should buy more fuel efficient cars, there are plenty of people out there who are lucky to have the car they have and keep it running and can't afford the outlay to buy an over-priced "fuel efficient "model.



Bingo. Not to mention that a lot of these "fuel efficient" cars (like hybrids) actually have a TCO HIGHER than a gass guzzling pickup truck.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:18:30 AM EDT
Glad everyone here is doing so well.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:21:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/29/2005 7:21:48 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By legalese77:
Glad everyone here is doing so well.



The gas prices suck.

They suck because a bunch of feel-good environmental laws is forcing us to pay too high a price for crude and restricts refining capacity to the point that supply shortages can happen if somebody sneezes. (No new refineries have been built since 1976, but in that time demand has jumped significantly....That is right ladies and gentlemen....We have more demand for gas now than when everyone was driving huge hulks with v8 engines....)

It is also true that a good many people out there are living fiscally irresponsible lives. Some but not all of those complaining about gas have no real reason to complain.

Others, like my Grandmother on SS whose utility bills DOUBLED last year alone, have a very real worry on their hands.

Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:22:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
I have yet to figure out how it is profitable for credit card companies to give out credit so freely. How can you make money when you give a guy $5000 to buy a fancy new plasma TV and then he declares bancruptcy after hocking the same TV for $250? I guess those of us who are responsible with our cards pay for it all in higher interest rates. Punish the good guys so they can cater to the assholes...



Actually, if you have good credit you get a much lower interest rate on your credit cards. The ones who are late/delinquent/etc pay some outrageous rates.
Link Posted: 9/29/2005 7:30:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sandguard:
The party is over. People are going to have to make some tough choices and live within their means. Just like the good old days.



+1 truer words will rarely be spoken here at ARFCOM.

I was in the process of saving to buy a new truck, instead when the CC decided to double their minimum payments I decided it was time to quit fucking around and get rid of all of my CC dept. Right now I am pumping almost $1000.00 a month into my CC cards, it's very painful but it needs to be done. I am one who really fucked themselves in my mid to late 20's with cc's. I was young, dumb and having a shitload of fun, I mean a lot of fun. I'm still paying for that 10 years later. As I pay down the cards though I keep them open, I don't have the cards but I have the credit. Thats important. I have two cc's that I currently use one is my ARFCOM card, a $500.00 limit Master Card, I use it for toy purchases with the local vendors such as SKD and G&R Tac The other card is my American Express, I have to pay that back every month and I do.


I have a friend who has really fucked himself with cc. He is paying almost $900.00 a month in MINIMUM payments. My house payment is $906. Double that to $1800 and he is going to be fucked. I brought this up to him a few months ago and he told me he was not worried becasue he didn't think they would actually do that. This was as we were moving him into a new house that he could barely afford.
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