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Posted: 8/24/2005 5:56:39 AM EDT
Gas prices while high are a factor of the dreaded supply and demand curve. What are you doing to reduce consumption and stop feeding oil companie's wallets? I hate getting raped at the pump.

If every guy from this board took one less trip of 10 miles or more a week you would save 1/2 gallon or more and give the finger to Exxon. If you stopped driving a gas sucking SUV or pick-up for trips where you didn't need a pick-up or 4wd you would save gas as well. Switching from a truck to a smaller car for a daily driver three years ago saved me 5 to 7 miles per gallon.

I don't think being "green" is a bad thing on this one issue. Watching stupid women puttering down the highway in a damned Suburban so she can "feel safe like a trucker" while pissing gas away at 12 mpg is just plain stupid.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 5:59:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:


I don't think being "green" is a bad thing on this one issue. Watching stupid women puttering down the highway in a damned Suburban so she can "feel safe like a trucker" while pissing gas away at 12 mpg is just plain stupid.




BINGO BINGO BINGO.

They have one or two rugrats in the damn thing too. What is the POINT????? Fucking status symbols.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:00:04 AM EDT
Dependence on middle eastern oil is the problem.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:04:26 AM EDT

I expect 99 cent gasoline soon. The prices are as fake as tulips.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:07:27 AM EDT
It's not supply and demand, it's speculation.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:19:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:

What are you doing to reduce consumption and stop feeding oil companie's wallets?




Nothing much. Not too much I CAN do to reduce consumption....
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:24:00 AM EDT
My wife and I swapped cars. She's out of work at the moment, and her small car gets better mileage than my SUV, so I'm driving it to work instead. Speculators are a problem, but a decrease in demand can only help.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:28:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:29:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
It's not supply and demand, it's speculation.




+1

Bunch of bastards just wan't more money.

When was the last time you wen't to the pump an couldn't get gas? Not exactly a supply probelm if its still availible everywhere.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:30:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
What are you doing to reduce consumption and stop feeding oil companie's wallets?



I found a job closer to home, cutting my commute from 55 miles per day to 20 miles per day.

I walk to and from the grocery store if I only need a few items.

And I do drive a pickup, mainly because you can't fit many bales of hay into a hybrid.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:30:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By phatmax:

Originally Posted By lonegunman:


I don't think being "green" is a bad thing on this one issue. Watching stupid women puttering down the highway in a damned Suburban so she can "feel safe like a trucker" while pissing gas away at 12 mpg is just plain stupid.




BINGO BINGO BINGO.

They have one or two rugrats in the damn thing too. What is the POINT????? Fucking status symbols.



cell phone in one hand, trying to drive with the other.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:31:20 AM EDT
What the matter with wanting to feel safe?

I'll drive any damn thing I want, you can do the same.

What I drive does NOT affect what you pay in gas.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:31:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 6:32:03 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
Quick! To the HindinPeter!

Yeah. WTF happend to the 4 cylinder minivan craze? They make so much sence for the soccer mom than the suburban does..
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:32:56 AM EDT
I always need a truck, so there isnt much that I can do.

I do run w/o AC and do 55-60 on the interstate for better efficency. But I cant swap to a small car. I used to drive a Honda Accord, but now I need a truck.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:39:23 AM EDT
So far I have skipped my usual trips to the range, skipped fishing trips, skipped my late summer scouting trips, and have started to lump my errands together to avoid multiple trips.

Yesterday, I sat at my daughters school for almost an hour vs taking my son home and then going back. I simply can't afford much more of this shit.

It's not going to happen, but I sure wish NO ONE would buy gas for a month............
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
If every guy from this board took one less trip of 10 miles or more a week you would save 1/2 gallon or more and give the finger to Exxon.



The hard working American men and women of Exxon-Mobil who search for, pump, ship, refine, store, move in a pipeline, store, truck and pump gas into you car so you can maintain your lifestyle really appreciate your salute.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:43:26 AM EDT
My wife gets 30-40 mpg in her car, it's our vacation car. When we feel upset about work, we put the top down and feel like we are on vacation for a few minutes.

We have 5 kids between us, when we have to haul all 5, we use our full-size SUV that gets about 14 mpg. I hate that I'm using all that fuel to drive by myself when they are in school, but it's cheaper than buying a third car to putter around in. My wife and I swap vehicles to save gas when I have a lot of errands in town, I get her car to run around in until I'm done.

Hopefully, I'll get a job close to her work with similar hours so we can go in the same car and leave the truck for kid-hauling and trailers.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:43:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
What the matter with wanting to feel safe?

I'll drive any damn thing I want, you can do the same.

What I drive does NOT affect what you pay in gas.

Sgat1r5







(do your ailments come from a traffic accident?)
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:45:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:


It's not going to happen, but I sure wish NO ONE would buy gas for a month............




What would that accomplish? BIG financial hit - refineries would scale back, everyone in the industry would have to cut back on supply...............and prices would SKY ROCKET.


Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:47:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
It's not supply and demand, it's speculation.




+1

Bunch of bastards just wan't more money.

When was the last time you wen't to the pump an couldn't get gas? Not exactly a supply probelm if its still availible everywhere.



+2

Futures traders and politocal instability, people need to quit panicing at the drop of a hat. The price of living in a Capitolist society. <shrug>
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:50:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FunYun1983:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
It's not supply and demand, it's speculation.




+1

Bunch of bastards just wan't more money.

When was the last time you wen't to the pump an couldn't get gas? Not exactly a supply probelm if its still availible everywhere.



Supply and demand doesn't just apply to America. It is the demand of the entire world. There are countries that can't afford the price of oil right now, even though they have a demand for it. The price goes up until someone can't or won't pay. I'm not saying that there aren't other driving factors as well, but just because you can buy gas for your car doesn't mean that someone in Africa can.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:51:49 AM EDT
How many of you that are pissed at Exxon also want to make as much money as possible?...Hippocrites.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:53:19 AM EDT
Running with AC and windows down does not always get you better gas mileage, I get 2 miles to the gallon more with ac on low and windows up. I drive an 8.1 liter vortec express 3500, on long trips and this is what I have found, at 65 mph it gets the best gas milelage. When I drive to work I use a Toyota Camry 28 miles/gallon. I can go 2 weeks on one tank of gas if I plan it out right, $22.00 bucks to fill up usually. My van forget it it only gets driven on weekends and long hauls.

Lastly, I would like to say in the land of the free, people can drive what ever they want, if they want to pay. Its refined fuel that we need and our Gov. has fu--ed us, there is plenty of oil, just not much being made into gas. The prices are fake because the Gas boys saw no increase in 30 yrs and needed a reason to sell to the stupids of our country, they looked at .comers making millions and said what about me. That is why the gas is going to stay high, there goal is $3.00/GALLON IMOP.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:54:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
What the matter with wanting to feel safe?

I'll drive any damn thing I want, you can do the same.

What I drive does NOT affect what you pay in gas.

Sgat1r5







(do your ailments come from a traffic accident?)



No, work related. But no way in hell am I ever owning a small car again. Not only can I not physically fit but I like being high up and having room.

I am not a midget, so I need a large car.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 6:59:53 AM EDT
the big problem is the car companies own the oil companies, and they refuse to build electric cars, becasue americans reuse to force them to, because we got our heads stuck up our collective bung holes.

50 mile commutes and gas guzzlers make things worse.

water injection doubles gas milage, why don't we have water tanks?

your car sits in the parking lot all day, in the sun, why can't you just have solar panels on it?

You attic is 160 degrees for half the year, and 120 for 1/4 of the year, why do you have a hot water heater?

solar panels on your roof let you pump electricity back into the grid during the day, when your at work, and when the meter runs backwards, YOU get paid.

when the CEO of FORD gets on TV and says "we don't have the technology" why do people believe him?



Usually I'm saying "stupid hippies, think communism means everybody gets to live in a commune...

But on a few things they are right.... like um... pollution, and the dwindling oil supplies of the world....
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:02:35 AM EDT

You attic is 160 degrees for half the year, and 120 for 1/4 of the year, why do you have a hot water heater?


I don't know about you people in OK, but in MA, we insulate our ceilings leading to the attic. It is frigid up there most of the year.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:03:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 7:05:01 AM EDT by jimtash9]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
What the matter with wanting to feel safe?

I'll drive any damn thing I want, you can do the same.

What I drive does NOT affect what you pay in gas.

Sgat1r5



OK, whatever you say.



Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:04:53 AM EDT
Short term, there's really nothing I can do to "conserve" gas.
I have a brutal commute; 36 miles one way. The good news is that when one works that far from home, one passes EVERYTHING on the way. So, anything I need from any store, I pick up on my way home from work. On weekends, I go nowhere now except to the grocery store (4 mile round trip) and to my local firing range (9 mile round trip).
Specialty items I order online and have delivered.
There's no more miles to conserve. It's just THAT simple.
Whoever thinks I'm "cowboying around" in my car or my pick-up truck has got his ideas about my lifestyle just plain wrong!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:06:01 AM EDT
You know that about half the price of gasoline is in federal and state taxes that are used to pay for pork-barrel projects? If the government wasn't so greedy, gas prices would be a lot lower.

The other main reason for high gas prices is lack of rifining capacity and different fuel standards for different regions of the country. These are both the fault of the greenie-weenies.

So if you want lower gas prices, do the following:

1: vote republican/libertarian
2: kick hippies in the nuts
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:06:34 AM EDT
I considered buying a motorcycle or a small car to save on gas. The problem is for the $3k - $5k it would cost, I could fuel my 99 Chevy Z71 for a few years even with these higher prices. So until someone just hands me an economy car or motorcycle I'll be rolling down the road with my V8 6" lift and 35" tires. Gotta pay to play...
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:08:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By santanatwo:

the big problem is the car companies own the oil companies, and they refuse to build electric cars,



Got a source for that???


becasue americans reuse to force them to, because we got our heads stuck up our collective bung holes.


No, because electric cars suck.



50 mile commutes and gas guzzlers make things worse.


50 mile commutes - yes, but you can thank the unstable job market. How many folks can move every 2 years when they get a new job?



water injection doubles gas milage, why don't we have water tanks?



Gonna need proof of that too. Yeah, it works for SC engines, but most of use don't have that.



your car sits in the parking lot all day, in the sun, why can't you just have solar panels on it?


Because you wouldn't generate that much juice, and most panels won't generate enough power to justify their manufacture.


You attic is 160 degrees for half the year, and 120 for 1/4 of the year, why do you have a hot water heater?


That's a thought....


solar panels on your roof let you pump electricity back into the grid during the day, when your at work, and when the meter runs backwards, YOU get paid.



Again, solar is HORRIBLY inefficient. It takes decades to repay the energy cost of manufacturing them.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:08:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 7:10:53 AM EDT by Waldo]

SASKATOON, Saskatchewan, Aug 23 (Reuters) - The government of Canada does not intend to try to block the proposed takeover of PetroKazakhstan (PKZ.TO: Quote, Profile, Research) (PKZ.N: Quote, Profile, Research) by China's CNPC, federal Industry Minister David Emerson said on Tuesday.

"My departmental officials have looked at that potential transactions and, inasmuch as the operations of the company are largely outside of Canada, they've determined that it's not reviewable under the Investment Canada Act," Emerson said in response to a question from Reuters.

He said he did not intend to act beyond that advice. The Chinese firm launched a $4.18 billion offer on Monday for the Canadian-based company, which has its production and refining assets in Kazakhstan.



The high price reflects China's desire both to secure energy and to cement ties with Central Asia, said Paul Sampson, senior correspondent for London-based Energy Intelligence Group, publisher of the industry newspaper Oil Daily.

"They see the need to tie up future energy supplies as a matter of national security, and so there is a certain logic behind this,"
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:10:32 AM EDT
As kind of a last hurrah before I started going gas thrifty. I rented a V8 Ford ThunderBird convertable and my girfriend and I went driving around the mountians. it was hot out. but dangit I rented a convertable. Top down and AC Blasting! AC did nothing but provide a cool breeze before getting sucked out into space.

It was a good day. and only $27 worth of gas for 220 miles. ($2.67/gal) I was shocked the milage was so good.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:17:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
the big problem is the car companies own the oil companies, and they refuse to build electric cars


[tinfoil]The car companies own the oil companies???? I though it was the other way around! [/tinfoil]



50 mile commutes and gas guzzlers make things worse.

Damn that pesky freedom to choose what you want to drive and where you want to work.


your car sits in the parking lot all day, in the sun, why can't you just have solar panels on it?

You can. Go right ahead and set it up. You'll find that it is not cost effective. It costs more to build a solar panel than you will ever get energy out of it.


You attic is 160 degrees for half the year, and 120 for 1/4 of the year, why do you have a hot water heater?

Sounds like an opportunity for you to get rich!


solar panels on your roof let you pump electricity back into the grid during the day, when your at work, and when the meter runs backwards, YOU get paid.

And you never break even from the cost of the panels.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:17:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By santanatwo:

the big problem is the car companies own the oil companies, and they refuse to build electric cars,



Got a source for that???


becasue americans reuse to force them to, because we got our heads stuck up our collective bung holes.


No, because electric cars suck.



50 mile commutes and gas guzzlers make things worse.


50 mile commutes - yes, but you can thank the unstable job market. How many folks can move every 2 years when they get a new job?


your car sits in the parking lot all day, in the sun, why can't you just have solar panels on it?


Because you wouldn't generate that much juice, and most panels won't generate enough power to justify their manufacture.


You attic is 160 degrees for half the year, and 120 for 1/4 of the year, why do you have a hot water heater?


That's a thought....


solar panels on your roof let you pump electricity back into the grid during the day, when your at work, and when the meter runs backwards, YOU get paid.



Again, solar is HORRIBLY inefficient. It takes decades to repay the energy cost of manufacturing them.




Sorry, guy, but solar panels recoup the ENERGY and MATERIALS cost to create them within 3-4 years; it's the DOLLAR cost that takes forever to recoup...see here: www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf

So, if you're willing to pay the cost and don't mind never "making money on it", they're okay. Personally, I'd rather have a nice windmill generating power to supplement/reduce my utility bill, but I live in a poor area for that. Payback on a household sized unit is about 15-20 years, depending on location.

Solar panels on cars don't generate enough power to be worth it.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:20:38 AM EDT
My brother drives 40 miles each way to work, last spring he switched from a 3/4ton Ford truck to a fuly optioned Accord 4 cylinder. The car has every comfort known to man and he gets 34mpg instead of 14 mpg. That's 3.5 gals a day at $2.25 a gallon. Save $7. 88 a day for 250 days a year and you get $1968.75 dollars for shooting and guns. He parked the truck and uses it to haul stuff occasionally.

No American workers at oil companies lost their jobs because of his car or mine. Most rerfineries are working close to capacity. The car companies make money just fine selling cars instead of gas hogs The reason the profit on Explorers is so high? Simple, old paid for technology, old lines and old parts that have long since paid for start-up production costs.

If it is worth 2 grand a year to feel safe in a pimped out Explorer then waste your money. People are getting needlessly rich off your vanity. Refusing to conserve even a little is playing into the hands of speculators and other scammers. I'd rather spend my money elsewhere.

I think it is pretty cool that so many of us are making an effort to keep our money out of the hands of these people.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:20:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 7:22:17 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By billclo:


Sorry, guy, but solar panels recoup the ENERGY and MATERIALS cost to create them within 3-4 years; it's the DOLLAR cost that takes forever to recoup...see here: www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf




Assuming that report is really correct, I stand corrected. (did it take into account the inverter, battery bank, etc......?)


Thanks for the link
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:23:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ar15bubba:
How many of you that are pissed at Exxon also want to make as much money as possible?...Hippocrites.





Ahem. What does an ancient Greek physician have to do with this thread?

If you're going to slur folks, you may want to do so by using the right word.
Try: hypocrite.

You're welcome.
That is all.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:23:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jimtash9:


OK, whatever you say.






Then tell me, how does what I drive affect your costs?

The supply doesn't change does it?

You aren't supplamenting my costs are you?

So please explain.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:27:10 AM EDT
It's not you, just millions like you...




What I drive does NOT affect what you pay in gas.


Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:27:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By phatmax:

Originally Posted By lonegunman:


I don't think being "green" is a bad thing on this one issue. Watching stupid women puttering down the highway in a damned Suburban so she can "feel safe like a trucker" while pissing gas away at 12 mpg is just plain stupid.




BINGO BINGO BINGO.

They have one or two rugrats in the damn thing too. What is the POINT????? Fucking status symbols.




There was this special on TV about some poor family haqving to pay $90/week for gas yada yada yada. A real media Sob Sister story.....at least until you say they owned a fucking SUV the size of a Tank that got about 8 mpg.

My 'pity' stopped right there. It instantly turned into contempt.

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:36:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By flaperon:
It's not you, just millions like you...




What I drive does NOT affect what you pay in gas.





How?

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:39:45 AM EDT
Demand, man demand. You mention "supply" but the more it's wanted the more they charge...

Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:43:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By flaperon:
Demand, man demand. You mention "supply" but the more it's wanted the more they charge...




But there ISN'T a supply problem.

And cars are only ONE of the things we use oil for. So we can ALL be driving 25mpg cars and the cost STILL wouldn't change.

If it did have an effect than the prices would already be reflected since lots of people are buying smaller cars now, but it hasn't now has it?

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:52:56 AM EDT
You said it again! Forget supply. The oil is there (for the moment). Suppose for second that we did not need as much to be imported and the Arabs found that they had a surplus. The price will come down. So, then they cut production but at least their monopoly will be diminished allowing us to use more of our own or that of friendlies.


Screw it. I am probaly wrong. Use all you can. Finance a lavish Saudi wedding somewhere.

flap,

Printing "I heart Saudi Arabia" bumper stickers as we speak...
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:53:51 AM EDT
Only car I own gets less than 10 MPG, all my trucks do better than that so I will keep driving them, besides, I am only running farm gas now, and soon I might start running drip again, it is not the high prices of oil screwing us, it is the taxes upon the Gasoline ($1.52 a gallon CDN in just TAXES)
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:55:35 AM EDT
The ONLY thing that will help us at the pump is a switch to high ratio ethanol blended fuels. South Africa was forced to do this to survive the embargo in the 80s/90s and perfected a lot of tech on the processes. It is time for the US to do the same. We have a surplus in grain. Most vehicles require minimal adjustments to burn ethanol blends efficiently. It is cleaner for the environment, helps farmers/small towns/small businesses, uses the same infrastructure (gas stations), the same cars/trucks, and cuts our dependence on Mid East oil dramatically, removing the US consumer from their demand curve.

Why is it not happening? International oil companies would take a hit on their stock price, which is directly related to the value of their reserves. I can't think the hit the economy is going to take from $3/gal gas is going to be better for the US than Shell taking a hit. Also, ADM insists they own the patents to the processes (despite most of them running out years ago or having been developed by others). The switch to high ratio ethanol blends is WAY overdue,
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:57:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

The supply doesn't change does it?



You drive a vehicle that doesn't run on gas/diesel/electricity?

This isn't music downloading, when you buy a gallon of gas it is actually physically gone.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:59:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By flaperon:
Demand, man demand. You mention "supply" but the more it's wanted the more they charge...




But there ISN'T a supply problem.

And cars are only ONE of the things we use oil for. So we can ALL be driving 25mpg cars and the cost STILL wouldn't change.

If it did have an effect than the prices would already be reflected since lots of people are buying smaller cars now, but it hasn't now has it?

Sgat1r5



Gas consumption hasn't dropped. The growth of gas consumption has slowed. We certainly aren't burning less gas than we were in 1980 or 1960.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:01:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
If you stopped driving a gas sucking SUV or pick-up for trips where you didn't need a pick-up or 4wd you would save gas as well.



I can't afford to have multiple vehicles so I can pick and choose on a daily basis what my car of the day will be.I don't drive wastefully.My trip to and from work is 15 minutes long and I don't go a lot of other places .

The real problem here is the people who are speculating on the price of oil, driving it way beyond what it should be. Blame them for the high price, not me.They got away with blaming it on the war for a while, then they blamed the Chinese for a while because they said the Chinese were sucking up a lot of oil. Every storm that comes along is good for a spike of another penny or two, and the prices rarely drops back down afterwards. Blame the guys in the suits in the stock market exchanges, blame the oil company execs.Blame the politicians who keep throwing "temporary taxes" onto the price of a gallon to the point where .55 of every gallon is tax.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 8:37:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Eight:
Supply and demand doesn't just apply to America. It is the demand of the entire world. There are countries that can't afford the price of oil right now, even though they have a demand for it. The price goes up until someone can't or won't pay. I'm not saying that there aren't other driving factors as well, but just because you can buy gas for your car doesn't mean that someone in Africa can.



Yep. Every gallon you save goes right to the Chinese industrial machine.

GunLvr
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