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Posted: 1/7/2003 1:50:28 PM EST
I have heard countless people say that the loud "THOING" made by the clip as it ejects is a bad thing....not very tactical. My question is wouldnt the 8 rounds of 30-06 going [b]BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM[/b]kindof midigate the THOING of the clip? It feels weird actualy calling an ammo feeding device a clip. R35
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 1:54:34 PM EST
The last thing you'll hear is the clip being ejected and hitting the ground. Trust me.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 1:57:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:03:28 PM EST
How often do you fire 8 rounds right in a row at someone and how often are you counting the rounds when someone is shooting at you? What if you're down to two rounds and have a german pinned down behind a hedgerow. "Boom, Boom, Ping!" Now you're standing there in the open and he jumps up with his MP44 and mows your ass down. Without the "Ping" he would have kept his head down because he had no idea how many rounds you had left. No, not very tactical at all, but who gives a shit? It's a Garand!
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:04:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Rescue35: I have heard countless people say that the loud "THOING" made by the clip as it ejects is a bad thing....not very tactical. My question is wouldnt the 8 rounds of 30-06 going [b]BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM[/b]kindof midigate the THOING of the clip? It feels weird actualy calling an ammo feeding device a clip. R35
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Some GIs would carry an empty clip, fire 3 or 4 rounds, drop clip for the PING sound, then when enemy soldier raises his head, nighty night.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:05:40 PM EST
My father in law was in the 30th Infantry division in WW2 and he told me that the Germans would in fact count the rounds and listen for the clip being ejected. At that time they would attempt to bum rush your position. GI's counterered that by indvidually charging one round then the enbloc clip.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:24:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By Rescue35: I have heard countless people say that the loud "THOING" made by the clip as it ejects is a bad thing....not very tactical. My question is wouldnt the 8 rounds of 30-06 going [b]BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM[/b]kindof midigate the THOING of the clip? It feels weird actualy calling an ammo feeding device a clip. R35
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Some GIs would carry an empty clip, fire 3 or 4 rounds, drop clip for the PING sound, then when enemy soldier raises his head, nighty night.
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That doesn't make sense to me...the "ping" comes from the clip (wow that is strange) being ejected, not from it coming into contact with the ground...I'm afraid I'll have to call BS on this one.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:33:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 2:48:12 PM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:37:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Rescue35: It feels weird actualy calling an ammo feeding device a clip. R35
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This (the garand) is one of the FEW technically correct uses of the word "clip" in firearms jargon. The 30-06 cartridge makes up for all of the un-tacticalness of the "Tiiinnngggggggg!" of the clip. [:D]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:39:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: What if you're down to two rounds and have a german pinned down behind a hedgerow. "Boom, Boom, Ping!" Now you're standing there in the open and he jumps up with his MP44 and mows your ass down. Without the "Ping" he would have kept his head down because he had no idea how many rounds you had left. !
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THis scenario is EXACTLY why GI's "topped off" every chance they got.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:42:21 PM EST
I highly doubt you are gonna hear a PING in the middle of a firefight....BS on that German thing...
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:51:57 PM EST
i always thought it was more of a "pling" sound. lol!
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:27:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By garandman: THis scenario is EXACTLY why GI's "topped off" every chance they got.
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And just how do you "top off" a Garand?
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:32:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Valkyre: And just how do you "top off" a Garand?
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I was kinda curious about that myself! [:D]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:34:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By Rescue35: I have heard countless people say that the loud "THOING" made by the clip as it ejects is a bad thing....not very tactical. My question is wouldnt the 8 rounds of 30-06 going [b]BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM[/b]kindof midigate the THOING of the clip? It feels weird actualy calling an ammo feeding device a clip. R35
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Some GIs would carry an empty clip, fire 3 or 4 rounds, drop clip for the PING sound, then when enemy soldier raises his head, nighty night.
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That doesn't make sense to me...the "ping" comes from the clip (wow that is strange) being ejected, not from it coming into contact with the ground...I'm afraid I'll have to call BS on this one.
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You can call BS on it all you want, the fact is that they did it and it does make a pling when it hits the ground. I have two Garands and I know what sounds it makes, plus one of my uncles was a ground pounder it WWII in Europe and told me about it when I was a kid.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:41:23 PM EST
Just one of those myths that won't die......
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:46:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By tangeant: Just one of those myths that won't die......
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What would you be referring to?
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:51:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:
Originally Posted By LARRYG: Some GIs would carry an empty clip, fire 3 or 4 rounds, drop clip for the PING sound, then when enemy soldier raises his head, nighty night.
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That doesn't make sense to me...the "ping" comes from the clip (wow that is strange) being ejected, not from it coming into contact with the ground...I'm afraid I'll have to call BS on this one.
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You can call BS on it all you want, the fact is that they did it and it does make a pling when it hits the ground. I have two Garands and I know what sounds it makes, plus one of my uncles was a ground pounder it WWII in Europe and told me about it when I was a kid.
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I dunno - you only hear on "ping" not two when the clip is ejected. If the sound of dropping the clip sounds the same, wouldn't you hear two "pings" every time the clip ejected normally. The only way you could generate that "ping" sound would be by throwing and empty clip really hard at a steel or concrete surface - don't get a lot of that out in the field. I'm not trying to be too facetious - but I did my basic with a Garand and spent a lot of time in the field with it - and I don't believe what you are saying is really possible. Plus it seems really hard to believe that a GI who is taking shots at an enemy would pause to pull out an empty clip and throw it, or (alternatively) would be shooting while holding an empty clip in his one hand.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 3:58:03 PM EST
So did all the GI's Garands empty at the same time, allowing the Germans a free for all, I don't think so. I have been to many shoots at Camp Perry and other shooting clubs doing Garand shoots, and only when the last few shooters are finishing can you hare the ping sound. There is NO way you would be able to here that in battle, let alone after shooting a mauser without earplugs.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 4:02:17 PM EST
At 100 to 200 meters of engagement, it would be hard to hear the "ping", IMO. Particularly if you are trying to count and hear when being shot at by a company or even a platoon.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 4:02:35 PM EST
We won......nuff said !
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 4:29:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By Valkyre: And just how do you "top off" a Garand?
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I was kinda curious about that myself! [:D]
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Technically it's possible. Of course, it pretty much involves extracting the LIVE round in the chamber, then ejecting the remaining rounds in the en-bloc, then refilling it with loose rounds and then reloading. Why anyone would take the time to do this in the middle of a firefight is way beyond me. So far, from my reading, this is the only real criticism of the Garand of note by people like Scott Duff (The M1 Garand's Owner's Guide) and Jim Thompson (The Complete Garand).
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 5:07:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By oberg: So did all the GI's Garands empty at the same time, allowing the Germans a free for all, I don't think so. I have been to many shoots at Camp Perry and other shooting clubs doing Garand shoots, and only when the last few shooters are finishing can you hare the ping sound. There is NO way you would be able to here that in battle, let alone after shooting a mauser without earplugs.
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oh yeah, everyone ran out of ammo at the same time... The Ping didn't cause many deaths if any at all. Pure BS.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 5:13:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By MikeC:
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By Valkyre: And just how do you "top off" a Garand?
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I was kinda curious about that myself! [:D]
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Technically it's possible. Of course, it pretty much involves extracting the LIVE round in the chamber, then ejecting the remaining rounds in the en-bloc, then refilling it with loose rounds and then reloading. Why anyone would take the time to do this in the middle of a firefight is way beyond me. So far, from my reading, this is the only real criticism of the Garand of note by people like Scott Duff (The M1 Garand's Owner's Guide) and Jim Thompson (The Complete Garand).
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Either that, or you could disassemble the entire rifle, unhook the follower rod from the follower rod, refill the clip, and reassemble the rifle! That too, would probably not be the best choice under field conditions [:D]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 5:44:32 PM EST
My grandfather was an Army medic in the S. Pacific. Island hopped from Hawaii to Austrailia to the P.I. to India and every place in between. He seen some rough stuff and although he carried an M1 Carbine he never heard that the ejecting clip was some indicator for the Japs to rush your position. He said during fighting the chaos, enemy fire, yelling, and your own fire was almost deafening. This makes sense to me. Imagine the report of an 06' by itself, pretty fuckin' loud IMO Add another 10-15? in proximity, rapid fire, and some .30 cal auto, maybe some grenades or mortars, and the enemy fire? Who the hell would hear that clang over all that? He didn't say it was B.S. but just that he never heard that as happening. Beside everyone would have to be empty at the same time for it to be effective, right? Seems pretty far out to me but I wasn't there.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 6:21:28 PM EST
Hey (not you Raf or Grandeman) any of you guys actually have one? If so get it out of the safe,point it in safe direction put in fully loaded clip and try to push down hard enough to let bolt pass without stripping another round! Some body show or tell me how you top off a grande! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 6:40:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 6:42:53 PM EST by MikeC]
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: Hey (not you Raf or Grandeman) any of you guys actually have one? If so get it out of the safe,point it in safe direction put in fully loaded clip and try to push down hard enough to let bolt pass without stripping another round! Some body show or tell me how you top off a grande! Bob [:D]
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Yes, I actually own one, and yes it is possible to push a new clip in and let the bolt go over the top. However, that isn't the point of the "topping off" question. Topping off assumes that at least one round has been stripped off and you want to replace one or more expended rounds. Now, tell us how you do that without extracting the currently chambered round and spending an inordinate amount of time trying to replace rounds in the en-bloc clip (either leaving it in the magazine or pulling it out). Editted to add: Yes, it is possible to place a new clip in, let the bolt forward without stripping a round and then add an extra round on top to be chambered, but I believe that others and myself were NOT addressing this case.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 6:59:57 PM EST
Top off a Garand, Pull back op rod, live round will fly out Holding back said op rod, proceed to insert single cartridges into clip still held in Magazine of rifle release op rod pick up fallen cartridge voila! Not that difficult, with practice it becomes easy
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 7:02:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By MikeC:
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: Hey (not you Raf or Grandeman) any of you guys actually have one? If so get it out of the safe,point it in safe direction put in fully loaded clip and try to push down hard enough to let bolt pass without stripping another round! Some body show or tell me how you top off a grande! Bob [:D]
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Yes, I actually own one, and yes it is possible to push a new clip in and let the bolt go over the top. However, that isn't the point of the "topping off" question. Topping off assumes that at least one round has been stripped off and you want to replace one or more expended rounds. Now, tell us how you do that without extracting the currently chambered round and spending an inordinate amount of time trying to replace rounds in the en-bloc clip (either leaving it in the magazine or pulling it out). Editted to add: Yes, it is possible to place a new clip in, let the bolt forward without stripping a round and then add an extra round on top to be chambered, but I believe that others and myself were NOT addressing this case.
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Again I ask ,because if what you say is right all you would have to do is put a (fullyloaded)clip in,then put one in chamber let bolt slide over clip and have nine rounds! I say it can't be done(not in my grande anyway)! How do you get the bolt to close over a fully loaded clip,with out stripping one off the top! Really I would like to know as my grand might be broken aas it will not let me do this! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 7:11:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin: Top off a Garand, Pull back op rod, live round will fly out Holding back said op rod, proceed to insert single cartridges into clip still held in Magazine of rifle release op rod pick up fallen cartridge voila! Not that difficult, with practice it becomes easy
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Yes TACTPEN I know you can top load the grande ,but he says you can put a bolt across a loaded clip with out stripping a round! I say BS. Some times while loading lots of clips,I take out the opp plug and put a 5&1/4 inch or so dowl rod in and screw back on opp plug(holding back gas rod) then just top load all my clips,use clip eject release and repeat over and so on. Top loading is not the question,guess I just missed the point! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 12:29:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 12:40:25 AM EST by Rescue35]
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Rescue35: It feels weird actualy calling an ammo feeding device a clip. R35
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This (the garand) is one of the FEW technically correct uses of the word "clip" in firearms jargon. The 30-06 cartridge makes up for all of the un-tacticalness of the "Tiiinnngggggggg!" of the clip. [:D]
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I know but it just feels strang. I also have "clips" for my AR.....stripper that is. Well I think the only way for me to know for sure is to just get a Garand! I think I can slip that into the upper middle of my list of things to get. On a side note, I have never heard anyone complain about the sound a 30 round AR mag makes when it hits the ground (especialy a hard surface). Going to look at Garands R35
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:44:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 4:03:54 PM EST by MikeC]
Originally Posted By bobbyjack: Again I ask ,because if what you say is right all you would have to do is put a (fullyloaded)clip in,then put one in chamber let bolt slide over clip and have nine rounds! I say it can't be done(not in my grande anyway)! How do you get the bolt to close over a fully loaded clip,with out stripping one off the top! Really I would like to know as my grand might be broken aas it will not let me do this! Bob [:D]
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Mea Culpa as I did NOT pull out my Garand last night while I was writing my previous. I may be misremembering something a while back where I was putting less than a full clip in and yes, the bolt did go over the top round (obviously because it wasn't full), so I shall try to get a full clip in tonight and not strip the top round. Editted to add: I finally got home and pulled out my Garand, and sure as shit you are very much CORRECT. I was unable to get the bolt to ride over a full clip (someone get me a hammer, that last 3/16 inch is doable damnit!)
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:48:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin: Top off a Garand, Pull back op rod, live round will fly out Holding back said op rod, proceed to insert single cartridges into clip still held in Magazine of rifle release op rod pick up fallen cartridge voila! Not that difficult, with practice it becomes easy
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True enough. Now, would you do that in the middle of a firefight?
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 5:10:05 AM EST
Well guys, with my M1s, you CANNOT load a full clip, and NOT chamber a round by letting the bolt go forward. If you take one round out of the clip, then insert it into the magazine, hold down the rounds and let the bolt go forward, you can leave the chamber empty, but you've only got 7 rounds in the magazine. It is not possible to load 8 rounds into the magazine, and NOT chamber one when closing the bolt. Topping off? Not really possible. If you only have one or two rounds left, you can open the bolt, eject the clip, but keep in part way in, slap a couple more rounds into it, then push it down and try to load it, but you could NOT completely refill it. Loading a clip outside of the rifle is hard enough. PRACTICALLY: You'd pull the op handle back, eject the chambered round, hit the clip latch release, and eject the clip and any remaining rounds, and insert a fresh clip. You lose whatever was in the rifle, tho. And the sound of the ping? It's not hard to hear... if there's noone else shooting around you! Yes, it WILL make a PING sound if it strikes a solid object when it hits the ground. The sound comes from the clip eject spring (steel) hitting and forcing the empty clip (steel) out of the magazine. The clip itself makes the sound. If you have a clip, flick it up with your thumb, like you would flip a quarter. It makes a similar sound, right? Steel hitting steel = noise. Then when the clip hits hard ground or something, it can make a similar noise. Steel hitting rock = noise. I think that if any GIs were killed because of the PING betraying their position or empty rifle, they were VERY few and far between.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 7:57:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 8:34:53 AM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:31:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 8:32:39 AM EST by BigDozer66]
I believe it would be almost impossible for the enemy to hear the ping or pling the clip makes upon ejection. Especially if there are any other rifle's firing around you or them![sniper2] Not to mention if there is a .50 in the neighborhood![50] Normally when your Garand emptied you would be behind cover or you would head for cover! You would not just stand there like a lump on a log and let the enemy get an easy shot off at you![nuts] BigDozer66
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 8:51:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 8:53:14 AM EST by deadeye47]
Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB: i always thought it was more of a "pling" sound. lol!
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It is not a Zing, Pling or Boing....It's BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,BOOM,BOOM..BA-DA-BING!! [:D]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:01:09 PM EST
Ask my left-handed son-in-law where the clip goes on last shot(right off his cheek)! Garands can be shot quite well by leftys,but takes a little getting used to. Bob [:D]
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