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Posted: 9/7/2004 2:18:09 PM EST
I just saw a special on this on Lou Dobbs on CNN. The Maytag company's leaving Galesburg Il and going to Mexico.
I've been to Galesburg Il, it's a very nice town and I feel for the people that're losing their jobs.
I wonder though, what's really at the root of all this outsourcing?
The Kerry/Edwards campaign would have us believe jobs are leaving because of greedy, capitalist robber barons only caring about the almighty dollar; the republicans would say that the only way for American companies to stay competitive is to look for cheaper sources of labor.
Its ironic that Maytag leaving the US to go to Mexico is controversial, while at the same time if Maytag stayed where they were and hired illegal aliens from Mexcio to work at the plant, neither the Democrats or the Republicans would say a word-that'd be "racist."

Unless the United States socializes private business and forces them to stay here, how can we as a nation make our major corporations stay?
How much of business leaving has to do with unreasonable EPA restrictions, racial preferences in the workplace, lawsuits and crooked unions?
How come the newsnetworks screech about "outsourcing" but rarely say a word about "insourcing"-500,000-700,000 Illegal aliens a year coming into the US and taking American jobs?
I hear Kerry and Edwards running their mouths off about outsourcing, but I've yet to hear either of them offer up a solution.
If the Republicans are supposed to be so "business friendly", how come under a Republican administration so many businesses are going overseas?
I also wonder, as much as we complain about businesses going overseas, how many Americans are employed by businesses based overseas that are outsourcing in America?

I admit I have no answers, only questions, hopefully someone wiser than me can clear this all up.



Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:19:40 PM EST
I live 20 miles from Galesburg. This move is absolutely devastating an already stagnant local economy. Maytag is making this move after receiving tax breaks that the community of Galesburg cannot afford to give away. shameful
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:21:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
I live 20 miles from Galesburg. This move is absolutely devastating an already stagnant local economy. Maytag is making this move after receiving tax breaks that the community of Galesburg cannot afford to give away. shameful



I'm orginally from Decatur, (Il) and I went to Galesburg once for a wedding. Beautiful town.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:25:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:27:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
I live 20 miles from Galesburg. This move is absolutely devastating an already stagnant local economy. Maytag is making this move after receiving tax breaks that the community of Galesburg cannot afford to give away. shameful





I was born and raised in Galesburg, and lived there for 32 years. Ma still lives there. The city gave them 3 million and Maytag broke it off in their ass. Butler is also closing, as well as Gates Rubber. I loved growing up in that town, it's a cryin' shame that industry is forgetting who made them what they are. Fuggin' commies.

AB
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:28:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Lets see people in the U.S. want cheaper products, the unions would break the company if they could, the company can make higher profits if they out source the labor to mexico, and if there are jobs in mexico the mexicans have no reason to come to the U.S. and take the jobs here.

It's a win win situation to me, keeping the Mexicans in Mexico means more jobs for U.S. workers.





Unless YOU lost your job. Jerk.

AB
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:33:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:33:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By albob:

Originally Posted By legalese77:
I live 20 miles from Galesburg. This move is absolutely devastating an already stagnant local economy. Maytag is making this move after receiving tax breaks that the community of Galesburg cannot afford to give away. shameful




it's a cryin' shame that industry is forgetting who made them what they are. Fuggin' commies.

AB



How much do union workers make in a Maytag plant?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:34:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Lets see people in the U.S. want cheaper products, the unions would break the company if they could, the company can make higher profits if they out source the labor to mexico, and if there are jobs in mexico the mexicans have no reason to come to the U.S. and take the jobs here.

It's a win win situation to me, keeping the Mexicans in Mexico means more jobs for U.S. workers.



What a completely Moronic statement! I wonder if you would have the same opinion if some blood sucking executive moved your job to Mexico? Blaming it on organized labor when the company is doing very well is also a cheap shot.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:39:59 PM EST
One of the driving forces behind this is the massive amounts of BULLSHIT that companies have to put up with.

Think about the tax laws, employment laws, environmental laws, local laws, state laws, federal laws, blah-blah-blah. I'd say that only a small percentage of those laws and codes actually are needed. Most just keep feeding the lawyers and the goobmerment machine. Most aren't there to protect "The People" at all.

Until we make some SERIOUS changes in tax codes and regulation of business, they will do what the free market demands, take their business to places where they can produce goods and services with the least amount of overhead.

Unfortunatly before the people (and the pols) wake up it may be too late to keep American from becoming China's (and the rest of the worlds) bitch.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:48:57 PM EST
It's pretty hard to justify keeping a big, labor intensive business in the US anymore. Too many people want the following:

1. OSHA workforce regulations
2. Clean Air regulations
3. Clean Water regulations
4. Unemployment compensation
5. Employer-provided healthcare
6. Workers Compensation

Mexico has virtually none of the above to get in the way of making money, in addition to paying employees much, much less than their American counterparts.

It's amazing that ANYTHING is made in America anymore. We've made it so hard to make money.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:54:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 3:54:51 PM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
It's pretty hard to justify keeping a big, labor intensive business in the US anymore. Too many people want the following:

1. OSHA workforce regulations
2. Clean Air regulations
3. Clean Water regulations
4. Unemployment compensation
5. Employer-provided healthcare
6. Workers Compensation

Mexico has virtually none of the above to get in the way of making money, in addition to paying employees much, much less than their American counterparts.

It's amazing that ANYTHING is made in America anymore. We've made it so hard to make money.



Odd, I see companys making very good profits moving to Mexico all the time. I wonder if you will feel the same way when its YOUR job.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:55:41 PM EST
The Mexicans can't possibly build them any crappier than the one I got. POS!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:59:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Odd, I see companys making very good profits moving to Mexico all the time. I wonder if you will feel the same way when its YOUR job.


Well, since I own my own company (since June of '99), I guess I could say that not only do I have a unique perspective on this issue (as a business owner), but it'd be quite unlikely that my job would be sent to Mexico...or anywhere else for that matter.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:22:48 PM EST

I also wonder, as much as we complain about businesses going overseas, how many Americans are employed by businesses based overseas that are outsourcing in America?



The total is supposed to be somewhere north of 6 million. Of which 70,000+ is by Siemens, according to the CD that appeared on my desk today.

The global economy is a pretty complex topic, I'm no expert but you'll get a lot of emotional and perhaps irrational replies. That's 'irrational' as the economists use it, not as a descriptor of anyone personally. Many of the benefits are more subtle and (dare I say it) nuanced than an entire factory disappearing from Illinois. Add in always touchy topics like the environment, unions, and lawsuits and there will be a lot more heat than light.

There are a couple of books I've seen reviewed in the Economist and either the FT or WSJ too, 75s spots on CNN during an election year isn't exactly the place for in-depth analysis. I haven't read either yet, when free time and the local library cooperate maybe.

http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2628479

http://www.economist.com/finance/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2921753

www.bls.gov has tons of info, including things like this that ensure lively discussion and possible name calling

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat24.pdf
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:30:02 PM EST
So, uhh Dinger, what do you suggest a company should do when the competition is making as good a product as yours for half as much and selling it for 3/4 your price? What do you think the Stockholders would prefer? Stay there and lose everything or move to a better location and stay in business?

So what kind of TV do you have in your house?

What kind of computer do you use?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:53:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
It's pretty hard to justify keeping a big, labor intensive business in the US anymore. Too many people want the following:

1. OSHA workforce regulations
2. Clean Air regulations
3. Clean Water regulations
4. Unemployment compensation
5. Employer-provided healthcare
6. Workers Compensation

Mexico has virtually none of the above to get in the way of making money, in addition to paying employees much, much less than their American counterparts.

It's amazing that ANYTHING is made in America anymore. We've made it so hard to make money.



Yup... this is it in a nutshell... read it and weep. With this regualtion, that regulation, this MANDATORY insurance and so forth. NO WONDER these plants are closing up... And who loses? The working class.

hopefully people boycott Maytag and stop buying their product (Quality has been declining anyway. HAD a GREAT product once.... ONCE!)

Any wonder though while foreign companies such as LG, Bosch, Fisher & Paykel are kicking ass?

Better Quality + Lower Prices = Happy happy customers

Electrolux bought out Frigidaire and started making a better product but where did they move to? Mexico.

Only good Appliance manufacturers that are made here are the high end stuff like Dacor, Sub Zero and Wolf.

Yeah, Im not surprised.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:59:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
So, uhh Dinger, what do you suggest a company should do when the competition is making as good a product as yours for half as much and selling it for 3/4 your price? What do you think the Stockholders would prefer? Stay there and lose everything or move to a better location and stay in business?

So what kind of TV do you have in your house?

What kind of computer do you use?



I buy American whenever I can, and so should you. Next job going to Mexico might be yours.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:09:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:21:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
American workers are still the most productive ones in the world they just need to produce something with enough profit in it to cover the price of those factors you mentioned. Gone are the days of 40 years ago where someone might work for the same company for their whole life. I was told that the average worker changes jobs every few years - hopefully moving up inside the same company.

If you're in school now study hard and learn as many skills that you can as life is a long long trip and you'll need all of them.



You need a minimum of a BS/BA degree to open the door to many of the higher paying jobs. I know quite a few people who earned degrees in particular fields but work in entirely different fields. The degree opened the door for them however.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:22:32 PM EST
This is not just about a job but an entire city. Maytag has reaped enormous benefits...incentive after incentive including millions in tax breaks for a relatively destitute community that has seen Butler, U.S. Filter, Gates Rubber and Maytag close up shop and lay off workers. Galesburg is a blue collar former railroad hub and there are no jobs left. Except for the extremely well to do, most of the rest have to move elsewhere or be unemployed. The city becomes abandoned and blighted with a large unemployed population. Maytag has been wooed by a community that could only afford to treat Maytag so well if it employed sufficient people in the community. Maytag has taken those benefits and left the city of Galesburg with a serious economic disaster.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:22:35 PM EST
They're moving the entire plant to Mexico?

That's stupid. China's much cheaper.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:24:50 PM EST
In another 10 years, people who work in the building trades will be making a killing. No one else is going to want to do the work. Kids these days will do anything but physical labor.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:44:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By ryann:
I just saw a special on this on Lou Dobbs on CNN. The Maytag company's leaving Galesburg Il and going to Mexico.
I've been to Galesburg Il, it's a very nice town and I feel for the people that're losing their jobs.
I wonder though, what's really at the root of all this outsourcing?
The Kerry/Edwards campaign would have us believe jobs are leaving because of greedy, capitalist robber barons only caring about the almighty dollar; the republicans would say that the only way for American companies to stay competitive is to look for cheaper sources of labor.
Its ironic that Maytag leaving the US to go to Mexico is controversial, while at the same time if Maytag stayed where they were and hired illegal aliens from Mexcio to work at the plant, neither the Democrats or the Republicans would say a word-that'd be "racist."

Unless the United States socializes private business and forces them to stay here, how can we as a nation make our major corporations stay?
How much of business leaving has to do with unreasonable EPA restrictions, racial preferences in the workplace, lawsuits and crooked unions?
How come the newsnetworks screech about "outsourcing" but rarely say a word about "insourcing"-500,000-700,000 Illegal aliens a year coming into the US and taking American jobs?
I hear Kerry and Edwards running their mouths off about outsourcing, but I've yet to hear either of them offer up a solution.
If the Republicans are supposed to be so "business friendly", how come under a Republican administration so many businesses are going overseas?
I also wonder, as much as we complain about businesses going overseas, how many Americans are employed by businesses based overseas that are outsourcing in America?

I admit I have no answers, only questions, hopefully someone wiser than me can clear this all up.






Simple...

Production is a LIABILITY not an ASSET. You don't make money producing products, you make money selling them....

The GOP is not concerned about outsourcing because it helps American companies be competative and helps the economy. More efficiency, stable prices, etc...

Also, since most of the revenue generated by a product is made AFTER the product leaves the factory, that still happens here in the USA...

The money comes home here anyway...

What the problem is, is that you cannot expect to make money doing a 2nd or 3rd world job in a 1st world economy.

Manufacturing is the business of developing economies, and we are leaving the phase where it is economically viable.

The value of the jobs that are leaving is less than the cost of living. If you pay inflated wages, you do not 'help' workers, you simply create inflated prices...

Remember:

A company never actually pays a dime in texes, provides a single dollar of benefits, or pays a single day of wages.

Their CUSTOMERS do all of the above, when they pay the price of the product.

IF any expense, including those, goes up, the CUSTOMER pays for it, not the 'rich company'...

Now, that's a different perspective, eh?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:47:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By anothergene:
Got to pay the stockholders, workers and america be damned.
Also, some CEO got a hefty bonus...looks like another lose-lose situation to me!
Meet the new Maytag man...Pedro.



That's right... The law says that a company is responsible to it's owners... Period...

Corporations do not exist to 'pay a living wage' or whatever socialist BS you have bought into...

They exist to make money for their owners...

If I owned a company and found out my manager was spending MY money to 'take care of' his employees above and beyond what the going market value of their services was, instead of investing it to grow the economy, I'd be pissed too...

Remember, companies exist to make money for stockholders, that is the ONLY reason!

'night, pinko...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:50:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
The Mexicans can't possibly build them any crappier than the one I got. POS!



The Mexican worker can be replaced in a heartbeat if his work is crappy unlike the American Union worker. Quality may very well go up! Planerench out.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:51:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
It's pretty hard to justify keeping a big, labor intensive business in the US anymore. Too many people want the following:

1. OSHA workforce regulations
2. Clean Air regulations
3. Clean Water regulations
4. Unemployment compensation
5. Employer-provided healthcare
6. Workers Compensation

Mexico has virtually none of the above to get in the way of making money, in addition to paying employees much, much less than their American counterparts.

It's amazing that ANYTHING is made in America anymore. We've made it so hard to make money.



Odd, I see companys making very good profits moving to Mexico all the time. I wonder if you will feel the same way when its YOUR job.



Turn it around...

Immagine it's YOUR investment that could be doing 20% better if only the CEO would get his pinko-commie ass to Mexico or China...

Wouldn't you be pissed?

'Job Security' is obselete.

As Bush says, the days of one company, one job, your whole life are gone. It's time to adjust...

Which means you either make yourself valueable enough to keep, find another job, or learn a new career...

Welcome to the 21st century...

No amount of crying or voting Democrat is going to take us back to the 19th...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:51:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:54:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By ryann:
I just saw a special on this on Lou Dobbs on CNN. The Maytag company's leaving Galesburg Il and going to Mexico.
I've been to Galesburg Il, it's a very nice town and I feel for the people that're losing their jobs.
I wonder though, what's really at the root of all this outsourcing?
The Kerry/Edwards campaign would have us believe jobs are leaving because of greedy, capitalist robber barons only caring about the almighty dollar; the republicans would say that the only way for American companies to stay competitive is to look for cheaper sources of labor.
Its ironic that Maytag leaving the US to go to Mexico is controversial, while at the same time if Maytag stayed where they were and hired illegal aliens from Mexcio to work at the plant, neither the Democrats or the Republicans would say a word-that'd be "racist."

Unless the United States socializes private business and forces them to stay here, how can we as a nation make our major corporations stay?
How much of business leaving has to do with unreasonable EPA restrictions, racial preferences in the workplace, lawsuits and crooked unions?
How come the newsnetworks screech about "outsourcing" but rarely say a word about "insourcing"-500,000-700,000 Illegal aliens a year coming into the US and taking American jobs?
I hear Kerry and Edwards running their mouths off about outsourcing, but I've yet to hear either of them offer up a solution.
If the Republicans are supposed to be so "business friendly", how come under a Republican administration so many businesses are going overseas?
I also wonder, as much as we complain about businesses going overseas, how many Americans are employed by businesses based overseas that are outsourcing in America?

I admit I have no answers, only questions, hopefully someone wiser than me can clear this all up.






Simple...

Production is a LIABILITY not an ASSET. You don't make money producing products, you make money selling them....

The GOP is not concerned about outsourcing because it helps American companies be competative and helps the economy. More efficiency, stable prices, etc...

Also, since most of the revenue generated by a product is made AFTER the product leaves the factory, that still happens here in the USA...

The money comes home here anyway...

What the problem is, is that you cannot expect to make money doing a 2nd or 3rd world job in a 1st world economy.

Manufacturing is the business of developing economies, and we are leaving the phase where it is economically viable.

The value of the jobs that are leaving is less than the cost of living. If you pay inflated wages, you do not 'help' workers, you simply create inflated prices...

Remember:

A company never actually pays a dime in texes, provides a single dollar of benefits, or pays a single day of wages.

Their CUSTOMERS do all of the above, when they pay the price of the product.

IF any expense, including those, goes up, the CUSTOMER pays for it, not the 'rich company'...

Now, that's a different perspective, eh?



Bingo!! It's hard medicine but the this is not the industrial revolution anymore.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:23:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 8:23:36 PM EST by mattja]
It doesn't make sense to destroy all these entry-level manufacturing jobs and at the same time have an immigration policy that favors those who historically work those jobs. We may think it's modern and cool and post-industrial to do so (which to me is BS, as is evident in the collapse of the so-called "new economy"), but there will be a price to pay down the road.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:26:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By mattja:
It doesn't make sense to destroy all these entry-level manufacturing jobs and at the same time have an immigration policy that favors those who historically work those jobs. We may think it's modern and cool and post-industrial to do so (which to me is BS, as is evident in the collapse of the so-called "new economy"), but there will be a price to pay down the road.



They will only keep coming as long as the jobs are here...

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:28:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
They will only keep coming as long as the jobs are here...


...and Americans don't want to do them.
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