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Posted: 2/17/2009 2:18:30 PM EST
Got this in my e-mail today from a friend and thought some here might enjoy reading it...

The following may strike some as provocative. Good. It is meant to inspire Patriots and government officials alike to think, discuss it with their friends, and be prepared for the momentous decision they will be required to make rather quickly, if an attempt to disarm Americans is ever tried again. For, no matter how it might be couched, spun, and rationalized, it will signal the end of America, as we have known it. With the current mood among the electorate, and big-government oriented Progressives now at the top of the ticket for both major political parties, the Progressives are about to take over our government lock, stock, and barrel. These folks have a radically different view of the proper role of government than common folk in the heartland, and actually think the majority has the right to violate the Liberty and natural rights of the minority by legislative or judicial fiat. Liberty loving Patriots will need to remain vigilant and prepared to defend those rights, or accept the status of serf or slave in a glorious sounding Progressive utopia, organized on the repugnant principle of mob rule.

Remember Katrina - Gun Collecting Can Be Treason

Since our schools won’t teach genuine American history anymore, many can be forgiven for not recalling the provocation that caused proud Englishmen to take up arms against the forces of their king at Lexington and Concord Massachusetts in 1775. These are now considered the opening battles of the American Revolution, even though they occurred over a year before the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

When the Minutemen started shooting the Redcoats, who were on a mission to confiscate and destroy their arsenal at Concord, they would have been considered by most as engaging in insurrection against their lawful government. From the perspective of the King, his loyal troops, and the majority of loyal British subjects then residing in the colonies, the king’s troops were just following lawful orders to disarm the colonists. The Loyalists undoubtedly viewed the Patriots as a lunatic fringe of disgruntled ‘tax protesters,’ and supported the Redcoats.

The Patriots learned a couple of valuable lessons that day. One was to disperse and conceal their arms so they didn’t make a convenient target for the forces of tyranny. The other was that they could easily rout an overwhelming force of ‘Regulars’ with guerrilla tactics. The lesson for the Loyalists was that vigilant free men on these shores – American Patriots – would never passively allow themselves to be disarmed by their government.

To true Patriots, the meaning and intent of the Second Amendment to our Constitution is not in question. It is no less than the reset button on our Republic – in case the First Amendment doesn’t work, the Second one will. It protects a sovereign right of all free men that is not negotiable, alterable, or subject to judicial interpretation. Frankly, all those officials forever tinkering with ways to get around it are wasting their time, on an endeavor that is bordering on treason. Please understand that this inalienable natural right existed long before the Constitution was drafted, and will exist long after these United States disintegrate. The only reason it was enumerated in the Bill of Rights, was to make it clear to our public servants that it was taboo for them even to try repeating King George’s mistake.

Ninety percent of Americans could vote to repeal the Second Amendment, and the right of free men to own and carry weapons would still exist; for our Constitution does not, and could not, grant or deny our natural rights. It can only help us defend them from those who wish it could. If you do not understand this truth, please do some studying, discussing, and pondering until you do. Free men in this world are born with their natural rights, they are not a mere privilege to be bestowed or withdrawn at the whim of a capricious government, popularly elected or not.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting, target practice, or fowling pieces. Arms are weapons, and it would be irresponsible of Americans ever to permit errant public servants to disarm us. The disarming of honest citizens during the civil unrest (when they were arguably most needed) in the aftermath of the Hurricane Katrina disaster, was an embarrassment to law enforcement everywhere, and a wakeup call to the rest of us. The citizens of New Orleans were so caught off guard by the audacity of the move that the police got away with it. We simply cannot ever permit such a travesty to happen again.

Therefore:

To all elected officials, sheriffs, deputies, marshals, constables, sundry law enforcement officers, and military personnel. As a Vietnam era veteran and former peace officer myself, I respect your service and understand that most of you value our Liberty as much as any citizen. For the few who may not fully comprehend what that means, this is a reminder that as a condition of your employment as one of our public servants, you were required to swear an oath to defend the Constitution of these United States of America. We the people who employ you, take this oath seriously and regard any breach of same treasonous.

Be advised that hereafter your sovereign employers will consider any order to disarm private citizens, in any jurisdiction within these United States, a brazen act of treason. Further, any officer who obeys such a treasonous order, and attempts to confiscate our arms, is himself engaged in an act of treason. Keep in mind, “I was just following orders…” never has been, and never will be, considered a valid defense for treason. Anyone receiving such an order has the solemn duty to arrest immediately the traitorous fool who made it; and, most regrettably, any fellow officers inclined to execute it. Failing that, it would be advisable to resign and get out of a conspicuous uniform immediately.

For those arrogant enough to think government has the overwhelming force and would prevail, think again. We take our Liberty seriously. Unlike the unprepared and baffled citizens of New Orleans, do not expect us to cower in our homes awaiting your arrival. You will be ambushed in the field in the spirit of North Bridge at Concord, by a serious force of well-armed citizens, intent on summarily eradicating with extreme prejudice, any traitors who are intent on disarming us. Then, we will track down and hang the supercilious ass who gave the treasonous order.

Don’t even think about violating the Posse Comitatus Act and trying to field our military forces against us. It is unclear how many would violate their oath and fire on American Patriots defending their right to keep and bear arms, but we would prevail in the end anyway. We would win the same way our forefathers defeated the British occupation; the Vietnamese defeated the American occupation; the Afghans defeated the Soviet occupation; and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq. These victories came about, not by brilliance on the battlefield; but by simply refusing to lose, and wearing down the occupiers until they eventually just gave up and went home, weary of the grind, the cost, and the frustrating inability ever to achieve final victory.

Ponder this carefully, you Sons of Liberty, and be well prepared for the fateful decision you are likely to eventually have to make. Respect for authority is deeply ingrained in many; but there frequently comes a time in a man’s life when honor and self respect demand that we stand up on our hind legs and bellow in rage at injustice and the forces of tyranny. We are fast approaching such a time and our birthright as freemen will be seriously tested. Freeman, serf, or slave… the choice will be yours to make. Choose wisely.

Link Posted: 2/17/2009 2:31:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 2:33:12 PM EST
Treason never prospers. If it prospers, who calls it treason?
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:02:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:08:58 PM EST
If this be treason, then let's make the most of it.

- Some old powdered wig dude.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:12:16 PM EST
and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq.


just to show I actually read it, and caught that little defeatist gem in an otherwise not too shabby rant.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:22:11 PM EST
Interesting:D
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:26:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By criminalpoet:
Got this in my e-mail today from a friend and thought some here might enjoy reading it...

The following may strike some as provocative. Good. It is meant to inspire Patriots and government officials alike to think, discuss it with their friends, and be prepared for the momentous decision they will be required to make rather quickly, if an attempt to disarm Americans is ever tried again. For, no matter how it might be couched, spun, and rationalized, it will signal the end of America, as we have known it. With the current mood among the electorate, and big-government oriented Progressives now at the top of the ticket for both major political parties, the Progressives are about to take over our government lock, stock, and barrel. These folks have a radically different view of the proper role of government than common folk in the heartland, and actually think the majority has the right to violate the Liberty and natural rights of the minority by legislative or judicial fiat. Liberty loving Patriots will need to remain vigilant and prepared to defend those rights, or accept the status of serf or slave in a glorious sounding Progressive utopia, organized on the repugnant principle of mob rule.

Remember Katrina - Gun Collecting Can Be Treason

Since our schools won’t teach genuine American history anymore, many can be forgiven for not recalling the provocation that caused proud Englishmen to take up arms against the forces of their king at Lexington and Concord Massachusetts in 1775. These are now considered the opening battles of the American Revolution, even though they occurred over a year before the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

When the Minutemen started shooting the Redcoats, who were on a mission to confiscate and destroy their arsenal at Concord, they would have been considered by most as engaging in insurrection against their lawful government. From the perspective of the King, his loyal troops, and the majority of loyal British subjects then residing in the colonies, the king’s troops were just following lawful orders to disarm the colonists. The Loyalists undoubtedly viewed the Patriots as a lunatic fringe of disgruntled ‘tax protesters,’ and supported the Redcoats.

The Patriots learned a couple of valuable lessons that day. One was to disperse and conceal their arms so they didn’t make a convenient target for the forces of tyranny. The other was that they could easily rout an overwhelming force of ‘Regulars’ with guerrilla tactics. The lesson for the Loyalists was that vigilant free men on these shores – American Patriots – would never passively allow themselves to be disarmed by their government.

To true Patriots, the meaning and intent of the Second Amendment to our Constitution is not in question. It is no less than the reset button on our Republic – in case the First Amendment doesn’t work, the Second one will. It protects a sovereign right of all free men that is not negotiable, alterable, or subject to judicial interpretation. Frankly, all those officials forever tinkering with ways to get around it are wasting their time, on an endeavor that is bordering on treason. Please understand that this inalienable natural right existed long before the Constitution was drafted, and will exist long after these United States disintegrate. The only reason it was enumerated in the Bill of Rights, was to make it clear to our public servants that it was taboo for them even to try repeating King George’s mistake.

Ninety percent of Americans could vote to repeal the Second Amendment, and the right of free men to own and carry weapons would still exist; for our Constitution does not, and could not, grant or deny our natural rights. It can only help us defend them from those who wish it could. If you do not understand this truth, please do some studying, discussing, and pondering until you do. Free men in this world are born with their natural rights, they are not a mere privilege to be bestowed or withdrawn at the whim of a capricious government, popularly elected or not.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting, target practice, or fowling pieces. Arms are weapons, and it would be irresponsible of Americans ever to permit errant public servants to disarm us. The disarming of honest citizens during the civil unrest (when they were arguably most needed) in the aftermath of the Hurricane Katrina disaster, was an embarrassment to law enforcement everywhere, and a wakeup call to the rest of us. The citizens of New Orleans were so caught off guard by the audacity of the move that the police got away with it. We simply cannot ever permit such a travesty to happen again.

Therefore:

To all elected officials, sheriffs, deputies, marshals, constables, sundry law enforcement officers, and military personnel. As a Vietnam era veteran and former peace officer myself, I respect your service and understand that most of you value our Liberty as much as any citizen. For the few who may not fully comprehend what that means, this is a reminder that as a condition of your employment as one of our public servants, you were required to swear an oath to defend the Constitution of these United States of America. We the people who employ you, take this oath seriously and regard any breach of same treasonous.

Be advised that hereafter your sovereign employers will consider any order to disarm private citizens, in any jurisdiction within these United States, a brazen act of treason. Further, any officer who obeys such a treasonous order, and attempts to confiscate our arms, is himself engaged in an act of treason. Keep in mind, “I was just following orders…” never has been, and never will be, considered a valid defense for treason. Anyone receiving such an order has the solemn duty to arrest immediately the traitorous fool who made it; and, most regrettably, any fellow officers inclined to execute it. Failing that, it would be advisable to resign and get out of a conspicuous uniform immediately.

For those arrogant enough to think government has the overwhelming force and would prevail, think again. We take our Liberty seriously. Unlike the unprepared and baffled citizens of New Orleans, do not expect us to cower in our homes awaiting your arrival. You will be ambushed in the field in the spirit of North Bridge at Concord, by a serious force of well-armed citizens, intent on summarily eradicating with extreme prejudice, any traitors who are intent on disarming us. Then, we will track down and hang the supercilious ass who gave the treasonous order.

Don’t even think about violating the Posse Comitatus Act and trying to field our military forces against us. It is unclear how many would violate their oath and fire on American Patriots defending their right to keep and bear arms, but we would prevail in the end anyway. We would win the same way our forefathers defeated the British occupation; the Vietnamese defeated the American occupation; the Afghans defeated the Soviet occupation; and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq. These victories came about, not by brilliance on the battlefield; but by simply refusing to lose, and wearing down the occupiers until they eventually just gave up and went home, weary of the grind, the cost, and the frustrating inability ever to achieve final victory.

Ponder this carefully, you Sons of Liberty, and be well prepared for the fateful decision you are likely to eventually have to make. Respect for authority is deeply ingrained in many; but there frequently comes a time in a man’s life when honor and self respect demand that we stand up on our hind legs and bellow in rage at injustice and the forces of tyranny. We are fast approaching such a time and our birthright as freemen will be seriously tested. Freeman, serf, or slave… the choice will be yours to make. Choose wisely.





Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:33:46 PM EST
Would I get in trouble sending this to the president as me reps. Of coarse i would not put a return address.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:39:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:41:40 PM EST
I like it.


I did not agree with the Iraq or Vietnam mentions.


I agree with the commenter who said they will never go outright confiscating from coast to coast, because they know we would band together and fight.


They will instead simply raid one person's home at a time and send him to his grave OR prison for violations.


Those citizens who were against a treasonous violation of the Constitution would have to rise & fight as one, or die & be defeated separately.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:43:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2009 5:43:45 PM EST by zack991]
Originally Posted By Guth:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.


It will only take on shot to start a war.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:45:24 PM EST
The US people talk tough but I'm afraid that we'd roll-over like other countries. Lots of Quislings here too and liberal morons who'd turn you in.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:49:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sparkym37:
The US people talk tough but I'm afraid that we'd roll-over like other countries. Lots of Quislings here too and liberal morons who'd turn you in.


A huge reason OPSEC even on here must be practiced.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:49:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:51:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tango7:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...


OK, Dave.

We're talking about a group that has expended how many billions of dollars throwing money at the underclass, in the suspended disbelief that dollars = solution to poverty since the 60's?

They've passed how many score of "gun control" laws, even after studies have shown (and many of them have acknowledged) that they don't effect crime to a noticeable degree
?

Why? Simply so they can claim that they "did something", even if it winds up exacerbating the underlying problem.

We're not dealing with logic, we're dealing with feelings - and when that mindset is making policy, who's going to say that it's too little end? After all - "If it only saves one life..." .

Answers.com

Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."

Note - not that she wouldn't, just that the votes weren't there.

1992: (D) 56, (R) 44

What are the Senate number for this term again? Does the term "filibuster proof" carry any weight?

But just in case we were mistaken somehow, here she is in another classic left-coast move:



In July 2006, Feinstein voted against the Vitter Amendment to prohibit Federal funds being used for the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms during a disaster.

IOW, she voted in favor of federal dollars being used to confiscate lawfully owned firearms.

But we're all wacked and are misuderstanding the dynamics of the situation, right?.


Yes, you are...

Everywhere in the 1st world, where guns have been banned, this strategy has been used...

Including places like DC and Chicago...

They don't go door-to-door...

They just get all the guns the law-abiding are willing to turn in, and then get the rest through individual citizen-LEO interactions (consent searches, arrests for other crimes, etc)...

Door-to-door confiscation is something you only do if you are fucking stupid or want your efforts to fail....
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:52:56 PM EST
Are you a Rifleman or a cook?


This essay has a few "inaccuracies" but the overall message is clear enough.
Interestingly, I am meeting all kinds of people who are waking up to the idea that our new government may be at odds with the Bill of Rights. When you meet people like this, let them know they are not alone. Some will only talk a good show but others will stand. All who love liberty and know what it means will be tested.

If your interested in the 2ndA from the perspective of those who lived during the American Revolution, I'd suggest reading Stephen Halbrook's book:
The Founders' Second Amendment: Origins of the Right to Bear Arms






112
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:53:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2009 5:54:54 PM EST by Dave_A]
Originally Posted By Guth:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.


Which is why they won't do door-to-door confiscation...

If you just make them illegal and arrest the folks who are caught in posession (like drugs, like handguns in the UK, like DC, etc)...

Then no one starts shooting...

If you confiscate door-to-door, there will be resistance....

If they simply pass a law, offer a turn-in period, and enforce it as violations are found, not only will there be no point of resistance, but anyone who does resist will be seen by the larger population as a murdering scumbag....

Whereas if they actually went door to door, people would get pissed, fast...
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:58:15 PM EST
If guns are banned in another emergency, who do you think will hand them over with no resistance...regular citizens, or gang members
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:59:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq.


just to show I actually read it, and caught that little defeatist gem in an otherwise not too shabby rant.


+1, saw that also.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 5:59:31 PM EST

Never say "never".

This country may be over 200 years old, but we're all a long way from being out of the woods.....
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 6:04:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
If guns are banned in another emergency, who do you think will hand them over with no resistance...regular citizens, or gang members


Texas passed a state law making gun confiscation during disasters illegal.

Link Posted: 2/17/2009 6:05:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paddler112:
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
If guns are banned in another emergency, who do you think will hand them over with no resistance...regular citizens, or gang members


Texas passed a state law making gun confiscation during disasters illegal.



should be illegal at any time.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 6:08:36 PM EST
I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on the part of the "Stimulus Package" which will digitize everyone's medical records and enable government assholes to review them: and judge who can/can not own/possess firearms.

The provision is in there, I swear. And they're going to put it into action. You watch.

Now . . . are we all going to organize and resist - on account of hundreds of thousands of Patriots who must take pain meds or anti-depressants - who ever have?

Having their guns confiscated/destroyed is on par with having your guns confiscated/destroyed. It's a treasonous, anti-gun scheme. But, it'll go ahead . . . .

The question is: what are "we" going to do about it? You know everyone who is killed, captured or identified as an active participant in any "resistance movement" will be immediately labeled a psycho terrorist, anti-government, child pornographer, rapist, drug-dealer by the "media".

So, what's the answer?
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 6:30:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By criminalpoet:

Don’t even think about violating the Posse Comitatus Act and trying to field our military forces against us. It is unclear how many would violate their oath and fire on American Patriots defending their right to keep and bear arms, but we would prevail in the end anyway. We would win the same way our forefathers defeated the British occupation; the Vietnamese defeated the American occupation; the Afghans defeated the Soviet occupation; and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq. These victories came about, not by brilliance on the battlefield; but by simply refusing to lose, and wearing down the occupiers until they eventually just gave up and went home, weary of the grind, the cost, and the frustrating inability ever to achieve final victory.




A good read although this paragraph is very inaccurate.

The American Revolution was not won by guerillas and militia, but well trained and led regulars using conventional techniques of the day. The Native Americans (arguably the best guerilla force in a couple hundred years) could not beat a very poorly led U.S. Cavalry. We did not lose the war in Vietnam, we left, and the Vietnamese were heavily supplied by China and the Soviet Union. The Soviets were run out of Afghanistan with a fair amount of assistance from the U.S. And lastly, by most measures we have won in Iraq.

So, unless the armed revolt against the U.S. governmen,t some people predict is coming, has some outside help, chances of success against a well-disciplined U.S. Army is very slim. Successes against local law enforcement would be considerably better, but short lived.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 6:32:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2009 6:37:00 PM EST by glock21guy]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By criminalpoet:
Got this in my e-mail today from a friend and thought some here might enjoy reading it...

The following may strike some as provocative. Good. It is meant to inspire Patriots and government officials alike to think, discuss it with their friends, and be prepared for the momentous decision they will be required to make rather quickly, if an attempt to disarm Americans is ever tried again. For, no matter how it might be couched, spun, and rationalized, it will signal the end of America, as we have known it. With the current mood among the electorate, and big-government oriented Progressives now at the top of the ticket for both major political parties, the Progressives are about to take over our government lock, stock, and barrel. These folks have a radically different view of the proper role of government than common folk in the heartland, and actually think the majority has the right to violate the Liberty and natural rights of the minority by legislative or judicial fiat. Liberty loving Patriots will need to remain vigilant and prepared to defend those rights, or accept the status of serf or slave in a glorious sounding Progressive utopia, organized on the repugnant principle of mob rule.

Remember Katrina - Gun Collecting Can Be Treason

Since our schools won’t teach genuine American history anymore, many can be forgiven for not recalling the provocation that caused proud Englishmen to take up arms against the forces of their king at Lexington and Concord Massachusetts in 1775. These are now considered the opening battles of the American Revolution, even though they occurred over a year before the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

When the Minutemen started shooting the Redcoats, who were on a mission to confiscate and destroy their arsenal at Concord, they would have been considered by most as engaging in insurrection against their lawful government. From the perspective of the King, his loyal troops, and the majority of loyal British subjects then residing in the colonies, the king’s troops were just following lawful orders to disarm the colonists. The Loyalists undoubtedly viewed the Patriots as a lunatic fringe of disgruntled ‘tax protesters,’ and supported the Redcoats.

The Patriots learned a couple of valuable lessons that day. One was to disperse and conceal their arms so they didn’t make a convenient target for the forces of tyranny. The other was that they could easily rout an overwhelming force of ‘Regulars’ with guerrilla tactics. The lesson for the Loyalists was that vigilant free men on these shores – American Patriots – would never passively allow themselves to be disarmed by their government.

To true Patriots, the meaning and intent of the Second Amendment to our Constitution is not in question. It is no less than the reset button on our Republic – in case the First Amendment doesn’t work, the Second one will. It protects a sovereign right of all free men that is not negotiable, alterable, or subject to judicial interpretation. Frankly, all those officials forever tinkering with ways to get around it are wasting their time, on an endeavor that is bordering on treason. Please understand that this inalienable natural right existed long before the Constitution was drafted, and will exist long after these United States disintegrate. The only reason it was enumerated in the Bill of Rights, was to make it clear to our public servants that it was taboo for them even to try repeating King George’s mistake.

Ninety percent of Americans could vote to repeal the Second Amendment, and the right of free men to own and carry weapons would still exist; for our Constitution does not, and could not, grant or deny our natural rights. It can only help us defend them from those who wish it could. If you do not understand this truth, please do some studying, discussing, and pondering until you do. Free men in this world are born with their natural rights, they are not a mere privilege to be bestowed or withdrawn at the whim of a capricious government, popularly elected or not.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting, target practice, or fowling pieces. Arms are weapons, and it would be irresponsible of Americans ever to permit errant public servants to disarm us. The disarming of honest citizens during the civil unrest (when they were arguably most needed) in the aftermath of the Hurricane Katrina disaster, was an embarrassment to law enforcement everywhere, and a wakeup call to the rest of us. The citizens of New Orleans were so caught off guard by the audacity of the move that the police got away with it. We simply cannot ever permit such a travesty to happen again.

Therefore:

To all elected officials, sheriffs, deputies, marshals, constables, sundry law enforcement officers, and military personnel. As a Vietnam era veteran and former peace officer myself, I respect your service and understand that most of you value our Liberty as much as any citizen. For the few who may not fully comprehend what that means, this is a reminder that as a condition of your employment as one of our public servants, you were required to swear an oath to defend the Constitution of these United States of America. We the people who employ you, take this oath seriously and regard any breach of same treasonous.

Be advised that hereafter your sovereign employers will consider any order to disarm private citizens, in any jurisdiction within these United States, a brazen act of treason. Further, any officer who obeys such a treasonous order, and attempts to confiscate our arms, is himself engaged in an act of treason. Keep in mind, “I was just following orders…” never has been, and never will be, considered a valid defense for treason. Anyone receiving such an order has the solemn duty to arrest immediately the traitorous fool who made it; and, most regrettably, any fellow officers inclined to execute it. Failing that, it would be advisable to resign and get out of a conspicuous uniform immediately.

For those arrogant enough to think government has the overwhelming force and would prevail, think again. We take our Liberty seriously. Unlike the unprepared and baffled citizens of New Orleans, do not expect us to cower in our homes awaiting your arrival. You will be ambushed in the field in the spirit of North Bridge at Concord, by a serious force of well-armed citizens, intent on summarily eradicating with extreme prejudice, any traitors who are intent on disarming us. Then, we will track down and hang the supercilious ass who gave the treasonous order.

Don’t even think about violating the Posse Comitatus Act and trying to field our military forces against us. It is unclear how many would violate their oath and fire on American Patriots defending their right to keep and bear arms, but we would prevail in the end anyway. We would win the same way our forefathers defeated the British occupation; the Vietnamese defeated the American occupation; the Afghans defeated the Soviet occupation; and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq. These victories came about, not by brilliance on the battlefield; but by simply refusing to lose, and wearing down the occupiers until they eventually just gave up and went home, weary of the grind, the cost, and the frustrating inability ever to achieve final victory.

Ponder this carefully, you Sons of Liberty, and be well prepared for the fateful decision you are likely to eventually have to make. Respect for authority is deeply ingrained in many; but there frequently comes a time in a man’s life when honor and self respect demand that we stand up on our hind legs and bellow in rage at injustice and the forces of tyranny. We are fast approaching such a time and our birthright as freemen will be seriously tested. Freeman, serf, or slave… the choice will be yours to make. Choose wisely.





Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


I argee with the below statement


If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...


And isnt that a huge problem ? Just because they don't go door to door doesn't make it less evil.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 7:05:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2009 7:28:24 PM EST by jbombelli]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Guth:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.


Which is why they won't do door-to-door confiscation...

If you just make them illegal and arrest the folks who are caught in posession (like drugs, like handguns in the UK, like DC, etc)...

Then no one starts shooting...

If you confiscate door-to-door, there will be resistance....

If they simply pass a law, offer a turn-in period, and enforce it as violations are found, not only will there be no point of resistance, but anyone who does resist will be seen by the larger population as a murdering scumbag....

Whereas if they actually went door to door, people would get pissed, fast...

Not only will no one start shooting... they'll come here to ARFCOM and post things like "play stupid games win stupid prizes" and "that's what they get for shooting at the government" and "criminals getting what they deserve." And the guy who defends the shooter of several cops that took part in confiscating 'illegal' firearms from people will be banned. Life on ARFCOM will go on as usual, and there will be one more nail in our coffin.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 7:12:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Tango7:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...


OK, Dave.

We're talking about a group that has expended how many billions of dollars throwing money at the underclass, in the suspended disbelief that dollars = solution to poverty since the 60's?

They've passed how many score of "gun control" laws, even after studies have shown (and many of them have acknowledged) that they don't effect crime to a noticeable degree
?

Why? Simply so they can claim that they "did something", even if it winds up exacerbating the underlying problem.

We're not dealing with logic, we're dealing with feelings - and when that mindset is making policy, who's going to say that it's too little end? After all - "If it only saves one life..." .

Answers.com

Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."

Note - not that she wouldn't, just that the votes weren't there.

1992: (D) 56, (R) 44

What are the Senate number for this term again? Does the term "filibuster proof" carry any weight?

But just in case we were mistaken somehow, here she is in another classic left-coast move:



In July 2006, Feinstein voted against the Vitter Amendment to prohibit Federal funds being used for the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms during a disaster.

IOW, she voted in favor of federal dollars being used to confiscate lawfully owned firearms.

But we're all wacked and are misuderstanding the dynamics of the situation, right?.


Yes, you are...

Everywhere in the 1st world, where guns have been banned, this strategy has been used...

Including places like DC and Chicago...

They don't go door-to-door...

They just get all the guns the law-abiding are willing to turn in, and then get the rest through individual citizen-LEO interactions (consent searches, arrests for other crimes, etc)...

Door-to-door confiscation is something you only do if you are fucking stupid or want your efforts to fail....


You are wrong!!! Ever heard of Autrailia or England!!! Just wait!! your wrong on this as you are on the economy.

Link Posted: 2/17/2009 7:21:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2009 8:33:21 PM EST by SkilletsUSMC]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:


And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


Dave_A

I am a OIF vet, and it hurts me to say this, but now that Obama is POTUS, yes they are...

Just like the author of the article said... not by beating us in combat, but by not giving up. Once we are gone, they will still be there.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 7:59:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Guth:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.


Which is why they won't do door-to-door confiscation...

If you just make them illegal and arrest the folks who are caught in posession (like drugs, like handguns in the UK, like DC, etc)...

Then no one starts shooting...

If you confiscate door-to-door, there will be resistance....

If they simply pass a law, offer a turn-in period, and enforce it as violations are found, not only will there be no point of resistance, but anyone who does resist will be seen by the larger population as a murdering scumbag....

Whereas if they actually went door to door, people would get pissed, fast...

Not only will no one start shooting... they'll come here to ARFCOM and post things like "play stupid games win stupid prizes" and "that's what they get for shooting at the government" and "criminals getting what they deserve." And the guy who defends the shooter of several cops that took part in confiscating 'illegal' firearms from people will be banned. Life on ARFCOM will go on as usual, and there will be one more nail in our coffin.


Bingo! And our enemies know we will roll over because of the post you speak about. Hell, in the previous few months I can't count the number of post where people are already asking what they should be doing in anticipation of compliance.

We are screwed, screwed BIG time.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 8:28:23 PM EST
Absolutely interesting....good read but a little off, but still to the point.

Some of the posts though....

Doomed.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 8:37:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:


And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


Dave_A

I am a OIF vet, and it hurts me to say this, but now that Obama is POTUS, yes they are...

Just like the author of the article said... not by beating us in combat, but by not giving up. Once we are gone, they will still be there.


Skillets...

As long as Obama follows the SOFA agreement (The one that was in the works before he won) we won't lose in Iraq...

He has until 2012 to 'get us out of Iraq', and plenty of domestic distractions to throw out there while letting Gates & the DoD handle the war...

We'll see what happens...

I'm hoping he doesn't want to kick the presently sleeping dog, so to speak....
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 8:39:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By readytorock556:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Tango7:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...


OK, Dave.

We're talking about a group that has expended how many billions of dollars throwing money at the underclass, in the suspended disbelief that dollars = solution to poverty since the 60's?

They've passed how many score of "gun control" laws, even after studies have shown (and many of them have acknowledged) that they don't effect crime to a noticeable degree
?

Why? Simply so they can claim that they "did something", even if it winds up exacerbating the underlying problem.

We're not dealing with logic, we're dealing with feelings - and when that mindset is making policy, who's going to say that it's too little end? After all - "If it only saves one life..." .

Answers.com

Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."

Note - not that she wouldn't, just that the votes weren't there.

1992: (D) 56, (R) 44

What are the Senate number for this term again? Does the term "filibuster proof" carry any weight?

But just in case we were mistaken somehow, here she is in another classic left-coast move:



In July 2006, Feinstein voted against the Vitter Amendment to prohibit Federal funds being used for the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms during a disaster.

IOW, she voted in favor of federal dollars being used to confiscate lawfully owned firearms.

But we're all wacked and are misuderstanding the dynamics of the situation, right?.


Yes, you are...

Everywhere in the 1st world, where guns have been banned, this strategy has been used...

Including places like DC and Chicago...

They don't go door-to-door...

They just get all the guns the law-abiding are willing to turn in, and then get the rest through individual citizen-LEO interactions (consent searches, arrests for other crimes, etc)...

Door-to-door confiscation is something you only do if you are fucking stupid or want your efforts to fail....


You are wrong!!! Ever heard of Autrailia or England!!! Just wait!! your wrong on this as you are on the economy.



I'm wrong?

Oddly enough Australia and England are EXAMPLES I CITED...

No door-to-door confiscation occurred in EITHER case - they just did EXACTLY what I described...

Banned certain guns, said 'turn them in', and than waited for those who refused to get caught breaking some other law while possessing a gun...

Link Posted: 2/17/2009 8:41:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By criminalpoet:
Got this in my e-mail today from a friend and thought some here might enjoy reading it...

The following may strike some as provocative. Good. It is meant to inspire Patriots and government officials alike to think, discuss it with their friends, and be prepared for the momentous decision they will be required to make rather quickly, if an attempt to disarm Americans is ever tried again. For, no matter how it might be couched, spun, and rationalized, it will signal the end of America, as we have known it. With the current mood among the electorate, and big-government oriented Progressives now at the top of the ticket for both major political parties, the Progressives are about to take over our government lock, stock, and barrel. These folks have a radically different view of the proper role of government than common folk in the heartland, and actually think the majority has the right to violate the Liberty and natural rights of the minority by legislative or judicial fiat. Liberty loving Patriots will need to remain vigilant and prepared to defend those rights, or accept the status of serf or slave in a glorious sounding Progressive utopia, organized on the repugnant principle of mob rule.

Remember Katrina - Gun Collecting Can Be Treason

Since our schools won’t teach genuine American history anymore, many can be forgiven for not recalling the provocation that caused proud Englishmen to take up arms against the forces of their king at Lexington and Concord Massachusetts in 1775. These are now considered the opening battles of the American Revolution, even though they occurred over a year before the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

When the Minutemen started shooting the Redcoats, who were on a mission to confiscate and destroy their arsenal at Concord, they would have been considered by most as engaging in insurrection against their lawful government. From the perspective of the King, his loyal troops, and the majority of loyal British subjects then residing in the colonies, the king’s troops were just following lawful orders to disarm the colonists. The Loyalists undoubtedly viewed the Patriots as a lunatic fringe of disgruntled ‘tax protesters,’ and supported the Redcoats.

The Patriots learned a couple of valuable lessons that day. One was to disperse and conceal their arms so they didn’t make a convenient target for the forces of tyranny. The other was that they could easily rout an overwhelming force of ‘Regulars’ with guerrilla tactics. The lesson for the Loyalists was that vigilant free men on these shores – American Patriots – would never passively allow themselves to be disarmed by their government.

To true Patriots, the meaning and intent of the Second Amendment to our Constitution is not in question. It is no less than the reset button on our Republic – in case the First Amendment doesn’t work, the Second one will. It protects a sovereign right of all free men that is not negotiable, alterable, or subject to judicial interpretation. Frankly, all those officials forever tinkering with ways to get around it are wasting their time, on an endeavor that is bordering on treason. Please understand that this inalienable natural right existed long before the Constitution was drafted, and will exist long after these United States disintegrate. The only reason it was enumerated in the Bill of Rights, was to make it clear to our public servants that it was taboo for them even to try repeating King George’s mistake.

Ninety percent of Americans could vote to repeal the Second Amendment, and the right of free men to own and carry weapons would still exist; for our Constitution does not, and could not, grant or deny our natural rights. It can only help us defend them from those who wish it could. If you do not understand this truth, please do some studying, discussing, and pondering until you do. Free men in this world are born with their natural rights, they are not a mere privilege to be bestowed or withdrawn at the whim of a capricious government, popularly elected or not.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting, target practice, or fowling pieces. Arms are weapons, and it would be irresponsible of Americans ever to permit errant public servants to disarm us. The disarming of honest citizens during the civil unrest (when they were arguably most needed) in the aftermath of the Hurricane Katrina disaster, was an embarrassment to law enforcement everywhere, and a wakeup call to the rest of us. The citizens of New Orleans were so caught off guard by the audacity of the move that the police got away with it. We simply cannot ever permit such a travesty to happen again.

Therefore:

To all elected officials, sheriffs, deputies, marshals, constables, sundry law enforcement officers, and military personnel. As a Vietnam era veteran and former peace officer myself, I respect your service and understand that most of you value our Liberty as much as any citizen. For the few who may not fully comprehend what that means, this is a reminder that as a condition of your employment as one of our public servants, you were required to swear an oath to defend the Constitution of these United States of America. We the people who employ you, take this oath seriously and regard any breach of same treasonous.

Be advised that hereafter your sovereign employers will consider any order to disarm private citizens, in any jurisdiction within these United States, a brazen act of treason. Further, any officer who obeys such a treasonous order, and attempts to confiscate our arms, is himself engaged in an act of treason. Keep in mind, “I was just following orders…” never has been, and never will be, considered a valid defense for treason. Anyone receiving such an order has the solemn duty to arrest immediately the traitorous fool who made it; and, most regrettably, any fellow officers inclined to execute it. Failing that, it would be advisable to resign and get out of a conspicuous uniform immediately.

For those arrogant enough to think government has the overwhelming force and would prevail, think again. We take our Liberty seriously. Unlike the unprepared and baffled citizens of New Orleans, do not expect us to cower in our homes awaiting your arrival. You will be ambushed in the field in the spirit of North Bridge at Concord, by a serious force of well-armed citizens, intent on summarily eradicating with extreme prejudice, any traitors who are intent on disarming us. Then, we will track down and hang the supercilious ass who gave the treasonous order.

Don’t even think about violating the Posse Comitatus Act and trying to field our military forces against us. It is unclear how many would violate their oath and fire on American Patriots defending their right to keep and bear arms, but we would prevail in the end anyway. We would win the same way our forefathers defeated the British occupation; the Vietnamese defeated the American occupation; the Afghans defeated the Soviet occupation; and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq. These victories came about, not by brilliance on the battlefield; but by simply refusing to lose, and wearing down the occupiers until they eventually just gave up and went home, weary of the grind, the cost, and the frustrating inability ever to achieve final victory.

Ponder this carefully, you Sons of Liberty, and be well prepared for the fateful decision you are likely to eventually have to make. Respect for authority is deeply ingrained in many; but there frequently comes a time in a man’s life when honor and self respect demand that we stand up on our hind legs and bellow in rage at injustice and the forces of tyranny. We are fast approaching such a time and our birthright as freemen will be seriously tested. Freeman, serf, or slave… the choice will be yours to make. Choose wisely.





Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


I argee with the below statement


If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...


And isnt that a huge problem ? Just because they don't go door to door doesn't make it less evil.



No, but it does deprive the 'Come and Take Them' folks of their much-anticipated 'last stand' moment....

IF guns are banned, no one will 'come for them' - but if you are caught with one, you'lll take the bat up the ass, so to speak....
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 8:47:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO:
I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on the part of the "Stimulus Package" which will digitize everyone's medical records and enable government assholes to review them: and judge who can/can not own/possess firearms.

The provision is in there, I swear. And they're going to put it into action. You watch.

Now . . . are we all going to organize and resist - on account of hundreds of thousands of Patriots who must take pain meds or anti-depressants - who ever have?

Having their guns confiscated/destroyed is on par with having your guns confiscated/destroyed. It's a treasonous, anti-gun scheme. But, it'll go ahead . . . .

The question is: what are "we" going to do about it? You know everyone who is killed, captured or identified as an active participant in any "resistance movement" will be immediately labeled a psycho terrorist, anti-government, child pornographer, rapist, drug-dealer by the "media".

So, what's the answer?


The response?

Such a provision does not exist...

The GOA is full of shit on that one.....

There is no gun control in the porkulus - doesn't make it a good bill, but there's no gun control...

The GOA loves to exaggerate ANYTHING into gun control...

However, medical records do not meet the legislative standard for 'adjudicated defective' or 'committed' - those are LEGAL actions that are NOT related to your medical records....
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 8:51:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paddler112:
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
If guns are banned in another emergency, who do you think will hand them over with no resistance...regular citizens, or gang members


Texas passed a state law making gun confiscation during disasters illegal.


Florida did the same thing. Good 'ole common sense.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 8:56:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:


And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of Iraq...


Dave_A

I am a OIF vet, and it hurts me to say this, but now that Obama is POTUS, yes they are...

Just like the author of the article said... not by beating us in combat, but by not giving up. Once we are gone, they will still be there.


Skillets...

As long as Obama follows the SOFA agreement (The one that was in the works before he won) we won't lose in Iraq...

He has until 2012 to 'get us out of Iraq', and plenty of domestic distractions to throw out there while letting Gates & the DoD handle the war...

We'll see what happens...

I'm hoping he doesn't want to kick the presently sleeping dog, so to speak....


We shall see.

I can tell you with 100% honesty, that I got out of the military because I could just feel the dems getting ready to take over (at that time is was HRC) I don't know how it is in you unit, but I knew I didn't want to be part of that "last convoy to Kuwait"

Honestly I fucking HATE the Iraq war now. Not because I don't believe in it, but because the left uses fallen US service people (some of which were close friends of mine) to be used as leverage political leverage. I get fucking furious when I think about it.

I can tell the GWOT is very important to you. I understand that completely. But I'm just not sure we can ever really "win" another war with the huge anti-war movement that is now a fixture in this country. From the reports I have gotten from the Marines I knew, they say morale is WAY down... That's everything to an infantry unit.

I hope you're right though.
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 9:13:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:


And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of Iraq...


Dave_A

I am a OIF vet, and it hurts me to say this, but now that Obama is POTUS, yes they are...

Just like the author of the article said... not by beating us in combat, but by not giving up. Once we are gone, they will still be there.


Skillets...

As long as Obama follows the SOFA agreement (The one that was in the works before he won) we won't lose in Iraq...

He has until 2012 to 'get us out of Iraq', and plenty of domestic distractions to throw out there while letting Gates & the DoD handle the war...

We'll see what happens...

I'm hoping he doesn't want to kick the presently sleeping dog, so to speak....


We shall see.

I can tell you with 100% honesty, that I got out of the military because I could just feel the dems getting ready to take over (at that time is was HRC) I don't know how it is in you unit, but I knew I didn't want to be part of that "last convoy to Kuwait"

Honestly I fucking HATE the Iraq war now. Not because I don't believe in it, but because the left uses fallen US service people (some of which were close friends of mine) to be used as leverage political leverage. I get fucking furious when I think about it.

I can tell the GWOT is very important to you. I understand that completely. But I'm just not sure we can ever really "win" another war with the huge anti-war movement that is now a fixture in this country. From the reports I have gotten from the Marines I knew, they say morale is WAY down... That's everything to an infantry unit.

I hope you're right though.


We are both reacting differently to the same situation...

So long as my arm continues to heal well (which it is) I'm leaving Aviation for Combat Arms (Armor, hopefully) this summer, and trying to go back ASAP...

If there's going to be a 'last convoy out', I *do* want to be on it.....

When it comes to war, I'm apolitical....
Link Posted: 2/17/2009 9:23:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Guth:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.


Which is why they won't do door-to-door confiscation...

If you just make them illegal and arrest the folks who are caught in posession (like drugs, like handguns in the UK, like DC, etc)...

Then no one starts shooting...

If you confiscate door-to-door, there will be resistance....

If they simply pass a law, offer a turn-in period, and enforce it as violations are found, not only will there be no point of resistance, but anyone who does resist will be seen by the larger population as a murdering scumbag....

Whereas if they actually went door to door, people would get pissed, fast...
This is one of those rare times I agree with Dave_A.

While it angers and disgusts me to no end, this is exactly how it will play out.

"Murdering scumbag" is a term already used for those who would kill to defend their second amendment right to own an unregistered NFA item. Once heavy-handed NFA type regulations are extended to everyday firearms, those who defend their right to own them will get the same negative response.

Link Posted: 2/17/2009 9:46:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/17/2009 10:01:46 PM EST by Dutchy556]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Guth:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.


Which is why they won't do door-to-door confiscation...

If you just make them illegal and arrest the folks who are caught in posession (like drugs, like handguns in the UK, like DC, etc)...

Then no one starts shooting...

If you confiscate door-to-door, there will be resistance....

If they simply pass a law, offer a turn-in period, and enforce it as violations are found, not only will there be no point of resistance, but anyone who does resist will be seen by the larger population as a murdering scumbag....

Whereas if they actually went door to door, people would get pissed, fast...




Yeah, I fear Dave_A may be right on this one... the game's chess not checkers.

I don't know about the "no point" of resistance part, per se, but... yeah. I am not so confident about the number of patriots who would actually stand up and fight in this scenario. Half of the people who didn't turn their guns in would bury them only to never dig them up for fear of prosecution.



This is why anti-gun legislation must be fought tooth and nail.
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 2:57:09 AM EST
Seems I'm one of only a few whom actually agree with everything in that piece.

What exactly is your definition of "victory" in Iraq? Today? 5 years out? 100 years out?

No. We have not nor ever will "win" in Iraq or any other Muslim country. It goes faaaaaaarrrr
beyond military prowess. Ever hear the word....."Religion"?
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 3:39:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By criminalpoet:
Got this in my e-mail today from a friend and thought some here might enjoy reading it...

The following may strike some as provocative. Good. It is meant to inspire Patriots and government officials alike to think, discuss it with their friends, and be prepared for the momentous decision they will be required to make rather quickly, if an attempt to disarm Americans is ever tried again. For, no matter how it might be couched, spun, and rationalized, it will signal the end of America, as we have known it. With the current mood among the electorate, and big-government oriented Progressives now at the top of the ticket for both major political parties, the Progressives are about to take over our government lock, stock, and barrel. These folks have a radically different view of the proper role of government than common folk in the heartland, and actually think the majority has the right to violate the Liberty and natural rights of the minority by legislative or judicial fiat. Liberty loving Patriots will need to remain vigilant and prepared to defend those rights, or accept the status of serf or slave in a glorious sounding Progressive utopia, organized on the repugnant principle of mob rule.

Remember Katrina - Gun Collecting Can Be Treason

Since our schools won’t teach genuine American history anymore, many can be forgiven for not recalling the provocation that caused proud Englishmen to take up arms against the forces of their king at Lexington and Concord Massachusetts in 1775. These are now considered the opening battles of the American Revolution, even though they occurred over a year before the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

When the Minutemen started shooting the Redcoats, who were on a mission to confiscate and destroy their arsenal at Concord, they would have been considered by most as engaging in insurrection against their lawful government. From the perspective of the King, his loyal troops, and the majority of loyal British subjects then residing in the colonies, the king’s troops were just following lawful orders to disarm the colonists. The Loyalists undoubtedly viewed the Patriots as a lunatic fringe of disgruntled ‘tax protesters,’ and supported the Redcoats.

The Patriots learned a couple of valuable lessons that day. One was to disperse and conceal their arms so they didn’t make a convenient target for the forces of tyranny. The other was that they could easily rout an overwhelming force of ‘Regulars’ with guerrilla tactics. The lesson for the Loyalists was that vigilant free men on these shores – American Patriots – would never passively allow themselves to be disarmed by their government.

To true Patriots, the meaning and intent of the Second Amendment to our Constitution is not in question. It is no less than the reset button on our Republic – in case the First Amendment doesn’t work, the Second one will. It protects a sovereign right of all free men that is not negotiable, alterable, or subject to judicial interpretation. Frankly, all those officials forever tinkering with ways to get around it are wasting their time, on an endeavor that is bordering on treason. Please understand that this inalienable natural right existed long before the Constitution was drafted, and will exist long after these United States disintegrate. The only reason it was enumerated in the Bill of Rights, was to make it clear to our public servants that it was taboo for them even to try repeating King George’s mistake.

Ninety percent of Americans could vote to repeal the Second Amendment, and the right of free men to own and carry weapons would still exist; for our Constitution does not, and could not, grant or deny our natural rights. It can only help us defend them from those who wish it could. If you do not understand this truth, please do some studying, discussing, and pondering until you do. Free men in this world are born with their natural rights, they are not a mere privilege to be bestowed or withdrawn at the whim of a capricious government, popularly elected or not.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting, target practice, or fowling pieces. Arms are weapons, and it would be irresponsible of Americans ever to permit errant public servants to disarm us. The disarming of honest citizens during the civil unrest (when they were arguably most needed) in the aftermath of the Hurricane Katrina disaster, was an embarrassment to law enforcement everywhere, and a wakeup call to the rest of us. The citizens of New Orleans were so caught off guard by the audacity of the move that the police got away with it. We simply cannot ever permit such a travesty to happen again.

Therefore:

To all elected officials, sheriffs, deputies, marshals, constables, sundry law enforcement officers, and military personnel. As a Vietnam era veteran and former peace officer myself, I respect your service and understand that most of you value our Liberty as much as any citizen. For the few who may not fully comprehend what that means, this is a reminder that as a condition of your employment as one of our public servants, you were required to swear an oath to defend the Constitution of these United States of America. We the people who employ you, take this oath seriously and regard any breach of same treasonous.

Be advised that hereafter your sovereign employers will consider any order to disarm private citizens, in any jurisdiction within these United States, a brazen act of treason. Further, any officer who obeys such a treasonous order, and attempts to confiscate our arms, is himself engaged in an act of treason. Keep in mind, “I was just following orders…” never has been, and never will be, considered a valid defense for treason. Anyone receiving such an order has the solemn duty to arrest immediately the traitorous fool who made it; and, most regrettably, any fellow officers inclined to execute it. Failing that, it would be advisable to resign and get out of a conspicuous uniform immediately.

For those arrogant enough to think government has the overwhelming force and would prevail, think again. We take our Liberty seriously. Unlike the unprepared and baffled citizens of New Orleans, do not expect us to cower in our homes awaiting your arrival. You will be ambushed in the field in the spirit of North Bridge at Concord, by a serious force of well-armed citizens, intent on summarily eradicating with extreme prejudice, any traitors who are intent on disarming us. Then, we will track down and hang the supercilious ass who gave the treasonous order.

Don’t even think about violating the Posse Comitatus Act and trying to field our military forces against us. It is unclear how many would violate their oath and fire on American Patriots defending their right to keep and bear arms, but we would prevail in the end anyway. We would win the same way our forefathers defeated the British occupation; the Vietnamese defeated the American occupation; the Afghans defeated the Soviet occupation; and the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq. These victories came about, not by brilliance on the battlefield; but by simply refusing to lose, and wearing down the occupiers until they eventually just gave up and went home, weary of the grind, the cost, and the frustrating inability ever to achieve final victory.

Ponder this carefully, you Sons of Liberty, and be well prepared for the fateful decision you are likely to eventually have to make. Respect for authority is deeply ingrained in many; but there frequently comes a time in a man’s life when honor and self respect demand that we stand up on our hind legs and bellow in rage at injustice and the forces of tyranny. We are fast approaching such a time and our birthright as freemen will be seriously tested. Freeman, serf, or slave… the choice will be yours to make. Choose wisely.



Not in my STATE.
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 3:42:57 AM EST
WTF is this shit?
the Jihadists are in the process of defeating the occupation of Iraq
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 3:47:32 AM EST

EVERYONE'S guns have already been banned, they're just taking their time rounding them up.

I've said it many times - all your guns have been banned - they're just taking their time rounding them up. Eventually you'll break one of their Draconian laws and the Feds will no-knock on your door and cart off your guns because you got in a bar fight 30yrs ago, or because you got a DUI 20yrs ago or because you signed your standard divorce papers or because you used them in legitimate self-defense or because of an anonymous "tip" to a crime already solved over two years ago - or simply because you're "next" on the list.

Maybe for you they'll come with a sealed warrant and an Asset Forfeiture proceeding to take every gun they can find - even though you've committed no crimes and there are no charges against you. Just ask the good guys at CavArms about gun-confiscation.

Incremental gun confiscation is already underway.

House-by-house, slowly but surely, one gun-owner at at time.



Link Posted: 2/18/2009 3:48:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By 3crowns:
If guns are banned in another emergency, who do you think will hand them over with no resistance...regular citizens, or gang members



They didn't hand them over in New Orleans. Law abiding citizems were detained and threatened with guns in their faces and elderly women were literally beaten for their pistols by the same people who are sworn to defend the constitution. That's what happens when the propaganda works and the public is dumbed down through media, food and pharmaceuticals.
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 3:50:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By 80FL:
Seems I'm one of only a few whom actually agree with everything in that piece.

What exactly is your definition of "victory" in Iraq? Today? 5 years out? 100 years out?

No. We have not nor ever will "win" in Iraq or any other Muslim country. It goes faaaaaaarrrr
beyond military prowess. Ever hear the word....."Religion"?


or geo-politics? Friends and allies have a history of changing over time while the real people in power consolidate their money and hold over those "fighting".

Link Posted: 2/18/2009 3:56:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Edvvard:
Interesting:D


Link Posted: 2/18/2009 4:35:45 AM EST
who ever wrote that is an asshole, and a poorly educated one at that. I became suspicious when he referred to the minutemen as "loyal englishmen" Self Identity as "Americans" and not "Englishmen" is one of the key factors in the cultural shift that lead to the revolution. Native born Americans were referring to themselves as such by the 1750s in most primary source documents still available.

By the time I heard him assert that jihadis were turning back the "occupation" of Iraq I knew this guy was a dipshit. Since he has obviously never been to Iraq and probably never fought in combat he should just shut the fuck up. He is embarrassing himself.
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 4:38:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:We shall see.

I can tell you with 100% honesty, that I got out of the military because I could just feel the dems getting ready to take over (at that time is was HRC) I don't know how it is in you unit, but I knew I didn't want to be part of that "last convoy to Kuwait"

Honestly I fucking HATE the Iraq war now. Not because I don't believe in it, but because the left uses fallen US service people (some of which were close friends of mine) to be used as leverage political leverage. I get fucking furious when I think about it.

I can tell the GWOT is very important to you. I understand that completely. But I'm just not sure we can ever really "win" another war with the huge anti-war movement that is now a fixture in this country. From the reports I have gotten from the Marines I knew, they say morale is WAY down... That's everything to an infantry unit.

I hope you're right though.


We are both reacting differently to the same situation...

So long as my arm continues to heal well (which it is) I'm leaving Aviation for Combat Arms (Armor, hopefully) this summer, and trying to go back ASAP...

If there's going to be a 'last convoy out', I *do* want to be on it.....

When it comes to war, I'm apolitical....


The difference is that I've been out for a while now. Good luck over there if you go back.
Link Posted: 2/18/2009 4:44:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By DvlDog:
who ever wrote that is an asshole, and a poorly educated one at that. I became suspicious when he referred to the minutemen as "loyal englishmen" Self Identity as "Americans" and not "Englishmen" is one of the key factors in the cultural shift that lead to the revolution. Native born Americans were referring to themselves as such by the 1750s in most primary source documents still available.

By the time I heard him assert that jihadis were turning back the "occupation" of Iraq I knew this guy was a dipshit. Since he has obviously never been to Iraq and probably never fought in combat he should just shut the fuck up. He is embarrassing himself.


Ask yourself...

Would you walk down route michigan, or route Moble with no Flak and kevlar in 2009? We crushed Fallujah, but there are still IEDs there. We are losing, but not because they are better fighters... They are out lasting us.

What do you think will happen to Fallujah when All US forces leave Iraq? My bet is that Muj will make a few heads roll.

Link Posted: 2/18/2009 1:59:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By Guth:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:



Never going to happen... Gun Confiscation on anything more than a loony-city-mayor level will never happen - it's too much effort to achieve too littl end...

If guns are banned, they will just offer a voluntary turning, and then get the left-overs piecemeal - one possession bust at a time...

And the Jihadists are NOT defeating the occupation of iraq...


That's true unless some people start picking off government officials, then they'll want the hold-outs gotten right away.


Which is why they won't do door-to-door confiscation...

If you just make them illegal and arrest the folks who are caught in posession (like drugs, like handguns in the UK, like DC, etc)...

Then no one starts shooting...

If you confiscate door-to-door, there will be resistance....

If they simply pass a law, offer a turn-in period, and enforce it as violations are found, not only will there be no point of resistance, but anyone who does resist will be seen by the larger population as a murdering scumbag....

Whereas if they actually went door to door, people would get pissed, fast...


What I meant was, if after the voluntary turn-in someone assassinates the rabidly anti-gun mayor of their city, the police will be under alot of pressure from the government and media to get those who did it -as well as those who could.
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