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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/26/2001 7:29:23 PM EDT
So Much For Privacy! Man Sues Rental Firm For Keeping An "Eye" On Him As He Drove HARTFORD, Connecticut -- A Connecticut man is suing a van rental company after they tracked his every move using global positioning technology and then tried to charge him approximately $200 every time he went over the speed limit. James Turner is taking Acme Car Rental to court after they charged him for three driving offenses they observed via satellite. He says he didn't see a clause in the contract explaining there would be a fine every time he went over the speed limit. "They took the money out before I returned the car," Turner said, adding he saw the global positioning technology (GPS) was included, but thought it was only there to help him if he got lost. Turner said that the special system -- which allowed Acme to calculate the van's speed as well as its location -- is intrusive. Acme said Turner should have read the small print and insist the monitoring system is necessary to allow them to find vehicles that are not returned. The court is waiting for evidence from the consumer protection board and the attorney general. A decision is expected within weeks I wonder if this is for real?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:53:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 7:56:12 PM EDT
I heard about on the Mike Galligher radio talk show today . He comes on right before Rush Limbaugh . I like Mike better . he had this guys attorney on the air taking calls , so I'd say it is for real . Mike called it an intrusion by Big Brother . I think this is scary as hell .
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:08:16 PM EDT
I think what's [u]really[/u] scary about this is that a PRIVATE company can issue you a traffic citation. It is none of their business unless some kind of damage occurs to their property when their vehicle goes over the limit. The rental car company should not be able to fine for a violation of a public law! I would like to read the fine print of the rental contract to see what the renter signed for!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:11:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 8:09:44 PM EDT by M11]
Paul is correct. I've sold GPS receivers for quite some time. GPS receivers are just that- receivers. They receive signals from multiple orbiting DoD satellites and calculate their respective lag times in order to determine distance from the various satellites. Given 3 distances from known locations, your receiver can calculate it's exact position at any given moment (to within a few feet). Since calculations are done continuously, it can determine your speed if moving. What Acme did was take the data from the GPS receiver they put in the vehicle and transmitted it over a wireless network to their network. So when you dropped the car off, their computer told them what it was told to. Voila... they have a complete record of your driving behavior in their vehicle. Personally, while this isn't legally an invasion of privacy, I don't think anyone will rent from Acme. They pulled a Smith & Wesson.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 8:50:25 PM EDT
I think a lot of trucking firms, and places like SEARs home repair have transmitters hooked to the GPS also so the company knows where the employee is. I think it is possible. Aviator [img]www.dredgeearthfirst.com/aviator.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:21:34 PM EDT
It's been awhile since I have worked with gps equipment, but when I did all information that I gather with $5K gps units required the data to be corrected before it was concidered "good data". When I was taking fixed points, until they were corrected they could be anywhere from 3 to 500 feet off. If this rental company is using on the fly correction software or satalite subscription service that provides that the data they are gathering is not true data. Oh yeah F@#* that company!
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:31:49 PM EDT
The system in the van was a type of ON-STAR. It is a system that both sends & receives information from the vehicle.You see this system in the new top of the line cars. You can call the operator on a cell phone and they can open your doors remotely, pinpoint your exact location, and tell how fast you are traveling. This very cool and very big brother Blackgun
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:32:43 PM EDT
My department has a similsr system in each of the cruisers. I can get location, direction of travel and speed on any of our cruisers with a click of the mouse. So, yes it is possible, but not with a simple GPS system.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:38:02 PM EDT
dc63, Will that same system show you a map to your next call when it comes out over your MDT?
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 9:43:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 9:42:05 PM EDT by JIMBEAM]
Mleaky The DOD has removed much of the error associated with selective availability. Post processing isn't really needed now. Additionally there are several services that provide real time correction data via their own satellites.
Link Posted: 6/26/2001 11:08:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2001 11:32:26 PM EDT by dc63]
Originally Posted By GeneStoner: dc63, Will that same system show you a map to your next call when it comes out over your MDT?
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No, unfortunately it won't. I am currently looking into that, but at this point the council has refused to authorize the funds because "The increased funtionality of the system would not offset the considerable capital expenditure." It is quit expensive. Edited because the S*it went sideways (again). Also because sometimes I can't spell. DC63
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 12:17:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:46:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim Beam: The DOD has removed much of the error associated with selective availability. Additionally there are several services that provide real time correction data via their own satellites.
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With a satellite correction signal, the position can be within 2 meters.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:52:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2001 2:51:20 AM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Hell with that crap! If you have to rent from these chumps, find the GPS antenna and disconnect it. Just let me know if any of the big players start pulling this crap. - Budget - Avis - Hertz - Dollar I loved renting from Avis with their cars equipped with the Magellan GPS unit. Technology is always being misused against us.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 6:54:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 8:28:15 AM EDT
About the system that was used, it was NOT a GPS. It was a Qualcomm system, or something similar to it. Just go to a truck stop and ask any of the drivers from a large company what a Qualcomm is and they'll show you.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 9:09:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:11:16 PM EDT
If they did not want the truck to go over 79mph, why didn't they just put a govenor in the truck? I doubt they spelled it out in big bold letters at the top of the contract. This is clearly a scam to collect extra money. It is their truck, and nobody forced him to rent it. The lesson I guess: Read the fine print.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:17:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest: I don't like this as much as any of you do but lets keep a few things in mind: 1) THEY DO HAVE THE RIGHT to do this, it is THEIR private property that you are just borrowing. 2) It was pointed out in the contract, and the renter had to Initial he read that (GPS/speed notice) specifically. If you don't read what you are signing and initialing then you deserve what you get. 3) If you don't like it use another company - nobody is forcing you to rent from this firm. If all the firms do this then you might want to keep the rental TRUCK under 80mph (what the heck are you doing at that speed in a rental truck anyway?). Property Rights are a two way street people, they apply to others as well.
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I totally agree with you Forrest, however, when you rent an item (like a house, or a car or a hotel room, etc.) you should have a "reasonable expectation of privacy." IMO, What the renter did may have breached the contract, but the "snooping" by the rental car company is not reasonable and violates some personal privacy issues. BUT, what the car company did does hold the renter accountable for their actions...
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:28:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2001 2:26:17 PM EDT by Rangemaster]
GREAT TOPIC! WELCOME TO THE FUTURE! Yes, this is for real. The GPS portion of the unit records the location periodically depending on what data the program is set to log. In the future, all your vehicles will be sold equipped with this feature. Vehicles not equipped with this device or where the device has been removed will be identified and cited for "using roads requiring the device by law" and "attempting to evade road fees and taxes". Electric, Fuel-Cell and other alternative fuel vehicles will require it since the small amount of fuel purchased to operate these vehicles en masse mean BIG losses to state & federal taxes on oil and gasoline. The simplest way to make up the differential is to require the use of this device on cars/trucks that get X MPG or are made after 20XX. You'll be billed for the mileage in township/county/state/federal highways by the mile used. Drive more, pay more. Got it? Get it!
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:29:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2001 2:32:46 PM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Originally Posted By mejames: If they did not want the truck to go over 79mph, why didn't they just put a govenor in the truck? I doubt they spelled it out in big bold letters at the top of the contract. This is clearly a scam to collect extra money. It is their truck, and nobody forced him to rent it. The lesson I guess: Read the fine print.
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Last time I drove a POS Uhaul truck, it's top end was limited to around 65-70 on a flat surface. I also doubt that the "snoop" disclaimer was "bolded" out at the top of the contract. Definitely sounds like a scam. If they really wanted to weed out the unsafe speeding drivers, after making the sucker...I mean driver pay the surcharges they should not rent to him/ her anymore. I doubt that this sort of clause eXists. Money for the chumps at ACME. WTF is ACME? Something from Roadrunner a cartoon? [Edited to fix a rare typo]
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:34:33 PM EDT
I also hear that new Camaro's and Vette's have incorporated big brother technology as well. Same probably goes for the Firebird/ TransAm. After an accident, their computer( black box ) can be eXtracted and offer an insight as to your driving behavior prior to the crash. I guess it would only benefit you if the other party was driving one of these cars in an erratic manner.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 2:46:19 PM EDT
The GPS in my MBZ ML are not that accurate. It not uncommon to have it be off by 100 to 300 feet. And if it think you are on road "A" and not road "B" (two parallel road) it will track your route on road "A" until it realize that it is way off.
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 7:55:27 PM EDT
this is why i will never get onstar or lojack or anything like that
Link Posted: 6/27/2001 9:08:16 PM EDT
I was reading somewhere that one could get discount insurance from a company if you installed a simialr GPS system that couls monitor your driving habits.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 5:40:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By timeport: I also hear that new Camaro's and Vette's have incorporated big brother technology as well. Same probably goes for the Firebird/ TransAm. After an accident, their computer( black box ) can be eXtracted and offer an insight as to your driving behavior prior to the crash.
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I think that is part of the newer OBD II emissions firmware that the feds have required on all 98 and newer cars. Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 8:04:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2001 8:08:35 AM EDT by RoadDog]
[size=5][red][u]NEWSFLASH:[/u] Some GPS systems have gone berserk and now are tracking all our movements without our knowledge! Our planet may possibly become another Terminator 2 with robots trying to take over Earth !! [/red][/size=5] [size=4][blue][u]ON SALE NOW[/u] Get your tin foil hats now! We have all sizes and colors available. Get a hat for your wife, kids, and dog! Get them while they last! Come and get your style and color!! [/blue][/size=4] [;)]
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 8:17:59 AM EDT
And now, Ta Da... Keeping track of the cars is only the beginning. Soon we will keep track of YOU! www.digitalangel.net First generation product is wearable. Second generation product is implantable inside YOU! HeadLines 2030? All World Citizens Will Be Required To Have Locating Devices Implanted Before The End Of The Year? Our World Leader Requires It.
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 8:30:09 AM EDT
Actually a tin foil hat may be just the ticket. Use it to cover up the GPS antenna! Take that Rent-a-Wreck!!! [-!-!-]
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 8:45:56 AM EDT
Ok you electronic wizards out there, how do we go about disabling or jamming these things?
Link Posted: 6/28/2001 8:47:10 AM EDT
the country club my dad goes to has gps and telemetry equipment in thew golf carts. Each cart has a laptop type lcd screen in it with a description and topo of the hole you are at, yardage to the pin from where the cart sits, how long the party behind you has been at the whole behind you and if they're coming up on you and when the party in front of you moves to the next hole. and the pro-shop can tell where anyones at and when to send out the next group. Pretty cool stuff except for that golf sux! and this doesn't make it any better! I always thought it would be cool to incorporate gps into palm pilots esp the wireless internet equipped ones so you could get maps of wherever your at, but what I really need is just something that I can punch in on the palm pilot or from my pc and have it synchronize. enter the location and a reminder about a certain place, say the army navy store I could type in it's address on my computer it would figure out the coordinates and then I could type a reminder like "check for more $8 GI mags" then I could synchronize with the handheld and anytime I drive within say a mile of that store it'd beep at me and remind me I need to see if they have more mags. You could also screw with other peoples palm pilots, say if they got too close to a sex shop a reminder comes up "remember to buy the 18" 8 D-cell strap-on razorcock"
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 4:50:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hipower: Actually a tin foil hat may be just the ticket. Use it to cover up the GPS antenna!
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And that would work, it doesn't take much to screw one up.
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 2:53:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 2:53:20 PM EDT
ALL YOUR CARS ARE BELONG TO US
Link Posted: 7/2/2001 4:39:07 PM EDT
Here is my 1 cent on this subject (its not worth 2 cents) I used to install GPS, and tracking systems, and I have owned and still on several Caddies(OnStar). LoJack-Is a completely passive system that work more like a homing beacon, not a whole lot of worries about big brother here, as you have to call in and tell them that your car was stolen and they call the police and dispatch your ID (aka frequency) to the cruisers that have Lo-Jack installed. God help you if its time for a shift change or your car was stolen 5 hrs ago while you slept and its on the docs in the next major city. Garbage system! OnStar- kinda basic, but is a combination of GPS, that reports to cellular system uplink. All the Onstars that I have owned you do not see the data that is sent and usually by the time that they get to what you are looking for you are several miles further. My understanding is that the newest models DO have a screen that you the driver can see. Side not to the OnStar/GM system someone mentioned that there is a black box in the GMs this is true for the last couple of yrs on the high end model it records like 30 to 60 secs worth of sensor data, prior to airbag deployment. And if that is not enough OBD3, is coming out and it links to your OnStar uplink and lets say something fails on the car (check engine light) it will transmitted to GM, and they will contact you to make an appointment to get it repaired. You are thinking that’s great, well it seems that way at first but you are wrong, lets say the O2 sensor takes a dump, and it 2 days before tag renewal, well in theory if you live in an emissions regulated area, GM might inform your State Tag agency that your car is not emission correct! Alpines Mobile Mayday - The best of the systems I have used, it is True GPS, that links to an onboard computer that has a CD/DVD for mapping data, no outside source is need for info. Now it does have the ability to upload your data if you need some sort of assistance(requested or emergency). Tele-Track - May have other names, this system is one I used to have when I lived in Miami, the system has NO GPS connection at all, it uses antennas, that are leasing space on cell towers, the unit, gets it position by talking to the towers and then transmits that data to the central office for location info. The system is kind of low tech, but it has a lot of neat features, you can track the car by your self (unlike Lo-Jack), you can Unlock your doors, start the car etc. It will tell you direction of movement, speed and a host of other info. I am pretty sure this kind of system is what "ACME" was using as the company stopped selling to consumers and now only sells to larger fleet companies, that can host thier own tracking system, to watch their drivers are on time not speeding etc. The system only works in larger city that the antennas are in. I know all this has nothing to do with AR, but kind of cool anyways. Dr64
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