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Posted: 12/25/2003 9:59:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 5:48:27 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
Picked it up on the 24th,  just had a chance to check it out today. VERY nice. Came with a great cleaning kit, a very detailed manual, and an extra forearm side mounting rail. (What I'll put on it I have no idea)
Spent a little time this morning loading every sort of ammo from wolf 9mm to 100 gr reloads. Hopefully the range is open tomorrow. I figure about 30 mags will be good for the break in.  I REALLY need a mag loader.

Interesting thing. I bought it from a police supply (GT Distributors) for 519$ plus tax. Included were three LEO mags for which I needed a dept letterhead. Well, my dept will not issue letterheads for weapons not on the approved list, so I asked the counter guy if he'd sell it to me without the mags.

He swapped the LEO only mags for used prebans they took in trade from some dept up north instead! Gotta love that.

They had three left in stock,  another sold while I was waiting for my background check. He got the same mag deal I did.

Apparently the 40 cal version is already in the pipeline,and should be showing up fairly soon.  There is also a .45 cal version listed in the instruction manual.

Is it just me or does this thing practically beg for a suppressor?  

I have a feeling that if this thing shoots as well as it's supposed to it's going to give the HK 94 crowd a serious bit of competition.

ADDED:

Not much to say really,  didn't have all that much time, so the shooting went kind of fast, and I'd loaded all the mags ahead of time.

Took the carbine right out of the box,  no dissassembly or cleaning,  just checked the bore and went at it.

350 rounds of mixed ammo,  Wolf 9mm along with a whole lot of different reloads.  Everything from 100 to 147 gr. Pretty much every "junk" round of 9mm I had. Two full mags of Ranger 124 gr +P+, which will be the carry ammo of choice.

Shot it all in about 15 minutes.  No failures.  Didn't even adjust the sights.  Mostly at the 25M targets because of fog.  Did get a little in at the 50 yd line towards the end. Haven't cleaned the gun yet, though it does not really seem that fouled up.

Nicely accurate, though with the wide variety of ammo I didn't do any real accuracy work.  Good sights,  (Although the rear peep could be a little bigger) trigger is useable.

There is a rim around the bottom of the magwell, so the 15 rounders are a litle recessd when you seat them, have to be careful in that. Not a major fault though.

Oh Yeah, it's a keeper.  
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:01:48 AM EDT
Yes, but unless you are LEO, you can never put a suppressor on it.

It is the ideal platform for one, though.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:09:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Yes, but unless you are LEO, you can never put a suppressor on it.

It is the ideal platform for one, though.
View Quote

Why not?  What am I missing here?
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:11:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 10:13:22 AM EDT by photoman]
I've put more rounds downrange through an MP5/HK94 than a CX4(1k rounds) I still prefer the MP5 pver the CX4. I didn't like the trigger in the storm. It just felt mushy and odd. I doubt it will give a serious run of competition for the MP5/HK94 execpt in one aspect, and thats the price. Not bashig it or anything cuz I did enjoy shooting it, I just think it needs some tweeking.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:12:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Yes, but unless you are LEO, you can never put a suppressor on it.

It is the ideal platform for one, though.
View Quote

Why not?  What am I missing here?
View Quote



No Storm was produced before 1994...
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:14:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Yes, but unless you are LEO, you can never put a suppressor on it.

It is the ideal platform for one, though.
View Quote

Why not?  What am I missing here?
View Quote



No Storm was produced before 1994...
View Quote


Don't know anything about Tx gun laws...but what does 1994 have to do with putting a suppressor on this gun?

Just curious.

Jamie
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:31:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fijfi:
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Yes, but unless you are LEO, you can never put a suppressor on it.

It is the ideal platform for one, though.
View Quote

Why not?  What am I missing here?
View Quote



No Storm was produced before 1994...
View Quote


Don't know anything about Tx gun laws...but what does 1994 have to do with putting a suppressor on this gun?

Just curious.

Jamie
View Quote

AWB, a suppressor is also a flash hider=no go on the storm.....will have to wait 9 more months.....
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:34:40 AM EDT
Clean cut,  I don't see why that should apply.  If I can suppress a 2 year old Buckmark I don't see why I cannot do this one as well. Maybe i'm just missing something.  I'll have to ask the Gemtech guys.

Photoman,  I too have extensively fired  MP5's and HK94's.  I'm not impressed. For that matter, I'm not impressed with HK anything. For a true subgun give me the AR platform any day.  

As for the Storm,  I see quite a few advantages for it over the HK94.
Price.
Availability. This also applies to magazines.
Accessory mounting options already on the weapon instead of hundreds extra.
Lighter, shorter, better sights.
Compatibility with sidearm.
Ability to convert to left handed use.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:38:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Clean cut,  I don't see why that should apply.  If I can suppress a 2 year old Buckmark I don't see why I cannot do this one as well. Maybe i'm just missing something.  I'll have to ask the Gemtech guys.

Photoman,  I too have extensively fired  MP5's and HK94's.  I'm not impressed. For that matter, I'm not impressed with HK anything. For a true subgun give me the AR platform any day.  

As for the Storm,  I see quite a few advantages for it over the HK94.
Price.
Availability. This also applies to magazines.
Accessory mounting options already on the weapon instead of hundreds extra.
Lighter, shorter, better sights.
Compatibility with sidearm.
Ability to convert to left handed use.
View Quote


A buckmark can be suppressed because it is not a semi-auto longarm.

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:09:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Clean cut,  I don't see why that should apply.  If I can suppress a 2 year old Buckmark I don't see why I cannot do this one as well. Maybe i'm just missing something.  I'll have to ask the Gemtech guys.

Photoman,  I too have extensively fired  MP5's and HK94's.  I'm not impressed. For that matter, I'm not impressed with HK anything. For a true subgun give me the AR platform any day.  

As for the Storm,  I see quite a few advantages for it over the HK94.
Price.
Availability. This also applies to magazines.
Accessory mounting options already on the weapon instead of hundreds extra.
Lighter, shorter, better sights.
Compatibility with sidearm.
Ability to convert to left handed use.
View Quote


A buckmark can be suppressed because it is not a semi-auto longarm.

View Quote


Huh? If you are in a free state and can foot the bill for a tax stamp you can put a suppressor on it.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:11:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Clean cut,  I don't see why that should apply.  If I can suppress a 2 year old Buckmark I don't see why I cannot do this one as well. Maybe i'm just missing something.  I'll have to ask the Gemtech guys.

Photoman,  I too have extensively fired  MP5's and HK94's.  I'm not impressed. For that matter, I'm not impressed with HK anything. For a true subgun give me the AR platform any day.  

As for the Storm,  I see quite a few advantages for it over the HK94.
Price.
Availability. This also applies to magazines.
Accessory mounting options already on the weapon instead of hundreds extra.
Lighter, shorter, better sights.
Compatibility with sidearm.
Ability to convert to left handed use.
View Quote


A buckmark can be suppressed because it is not a semi-auto longarm.

View Quote


Huh? If you are in a free state and can foot the bill for a tax stamp you can put a suppressor on it.
View Quote

not the Storm you can't, as said above it falls under the Assault Weapons Ban, and a suppressor would act as a flash suppressor giving it 1 too many 'evil features'
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:14:16 AM EDT
The storm falls under the definition of an banned assualt weapon if a supressor, bayonet lug, or folding stock is installed on it.

The rifles made pre-1994 are exempt

Those made after 1994 are not, and you can only have two features. You have a pistol grip and detachable magazine. Adding a third would be illegal in the eyes of the ATF.

September of 2004, the 1994 ban is set to die, an expiration date. Please for the love of god write your representatives and tell them to keep the ban burried! The ban is a slap in the face to gunowners.

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:31:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TIMMAH:
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Clean cut,  I don't see why that should apply.  If I can suppress a 2 year old Buckmark I don't see why I cannot do this one as well. Maybe i'm just missing something.  I'll have to ask the Gemtech guys.

Photoman,  I too have extensively fired  MP5's and HK94's.  I'm not impressed. For that matter, I'm not impressed with HK anything. For a true subgun give me the AR platform any day.  

As for the Storm,  I see quite a few advantages for it over the HK94.
Price.
Availability. This also applies to magazines.
Accessory mounting options already on the weapon instead of hundreds extra.
Lighter, shorter, better sights.
Compatibility with sidearm.
Ability to convert to left handed use.
View Quote


A buckmark can be suppressed because it is not a semi-auto longarm.

View Quote


Huh? If you are in a free state and can foot the bill for a tax stamp you can put a suppressor on it.
View Quote

not the Storm you can't, as said above it falls under the Assault Weapons Ban, and a suppressor would act as a flash suppressor giving it 1 too many 'evil features'
View Quote


I should have known the ATF would classify a silencer(ATF's term not mine) as a flash suppressor too.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:38:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Knife_Sniper:
Those made after 1994 are not, and you can only have two features. You have a pistol grip and detachable magazine. Adding a third would be illegal in the eyes of the ATF.
View Quote

Unless I've completely misinterpreted the law, a detachable magazine is a qualifier, not an evil feature.   So-called "AW's" are semi-auto rifles that have a detachable magazine.  EF's are tele stock, flash hider, bayonet lug...

Am i looking at the law correctly??

-hanko
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:52:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Clean cut,  I don't see why that should apply.  If I can suppress a 2 year old Buckmark I don't see why I cannot do this one as well. Maybe i'm just missing something.  I'll have to ask the Gemtech guys.

Photoman,  I too have extensively fired  MP5's and HK94's.  I'm not impressed. For that matter, I'm not impressed with HK anything. For a true subgun give me the AR platform any day.  

As for the Storm,  I see quite a few advantages for it over the HK94.
Price.
Availability. This also applies to magazines.
Accessory mounting options already on the weapon instead of hundreds extra.
Lighter, shorter, better sights.
Compatibility with sidearm.
Ability to convert to left handed use.
View Quote


John- In regards to the AR for a subgun platform, I'm right with you. I have a 40cal upper for mine. It's getting chopped down sometime this year to 9in or 10in barrel having a HK style 3 lug supressor mount and a flash supressor put on it after I SBR my pre-ban. If I could have an AR that fills all my needs as far as my uses of my guns I'd own nothing but a couple lowers and a shit load of uppers. I'm working on some stuff right now that should make that possible. Though you won't catch me selling any of the guns I do have.


As far as supressing the Storm no you could not do it legaly. THe ability to accept a detachable mag plus two of the evil features would make it an AW. Pistol grip protruding conspicuously beneath the stock. Thats one. Threading for a supressor alone would be a second. Even if you put a QD supressor mount on it the supressor(sound) still supresses the flash as well, in fact it eliminates it and thus would be considered an evil feature.

In 9 months plus a week or so it should not matter. If we keep the pressure up.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:05:06 PM EDT
Congrats!  I have shot an MP5 many many times, and love it, however I think the HK USC is the gun to compare at 2x the price!
I have also shot the HK USC and it ROCKS!!  If your rifle shots like that, WOW! [coffee]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:43:13 PM EDT
But the Storm does not have a pitol grip IIRC, therefore it is not subject to the AWB.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:49:04 PM EDT
yes it does, thumbhole pistol grip stocks gets guns by the import ban but they do not pre-empt the 94 crime bill, it's a pistol grip.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:51:29 PM EDT
Its a HK USC clone, right?                  [coffee]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:51:59 PM EDT
have you seen it yet? it has a pistol grip
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:53:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
yes it does, thumbhole pistol grip stocks gets guns by the import ban but they do not pre-empt the 94 crime bill, it's a pistol grip.
View Quote


I defer to the distinguished Dealer...
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:56:49 PM EDT
Even if the '94 ban sunsets the '89 ban [red](thank you George Bush)[/red] applies to all foreign made weapons. That one is permanent. Maybe after the '94 ban sunsets, and if the repubs hold onto power, we can work on that one. And then on the '86 MG ban [red](thank you Ronald Reagan)[/red] and the '68 GCA.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:31:25 PM EDT
and then NFA 1934.  We'd need a revolution for that.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:49:57 PM EDT
pics!!! Pics!!! I don't think ive ever seen a beretta Storm.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:54:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LocknLoaded:
pics!!! Pics!!! I don't think ive ever seen a beretta Storm.
View Quote


What he said!
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 3:14:16 PM EDT
Even if the '94 ban sunsets the '89 ban (thank you George Bush) applies to all foreign made weapons. That one is permanent. Maybe after the '94 ban sunsets, and if the repubs hold onto power, we can work on that one. And then on the '86 MG ban (thank you Ronald Reagan) and the '68 GCA.
View Quote
With friends like this in office,who needs enemies.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 3:21:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Even if the '94 ban sunsets the '89 ban [red](thank you George Bush)[/red] applies to all foreign made weapons. That one is permanent. Maybe after the '94 ban sunsets, and if the repubs hold onto power, we can work on that one. And then on the '86 MG ban [red](thank you Ronald Reagan)[/red] and the '68 GCA.
View Quote


Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.
Problem is, the 86 and 89 dont have a hope in hell of getting repealed.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 3:29:22 PM EDT
I got one too, and so far I love it!  I dont care about suppressing it or anything else like that.

What I DO care about is where can I get a top rail for it?  If anyone can help me out that would be great.

SP
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:00:51 PM EDT
Can the Berreta Storm shoot +P and +P+ ammo?
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:08:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LocknLoaded:
pics!!! Pics!!! I don't think ive ever seen a beretta Storm.
View Quote

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20914[/img]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:50:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 5:52:42 PM EDT by giacutter]
Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Originally Posted By LocknLoaded:
pics!!! Pics!!! I don't think ive ever seen a beretta Storm.
View Quote

[url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20914[/url]
View Quote


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I must have one.
I found the birthday gift for my wife I've been looking for.   I may have to borrow it, too.
It looks so evil, it must be good.  This one will be driving the libs crazy to get it on a banned list on looks alone.

Edited to add extra evil.





Link Posted: 12/25/2003 8:10:09 PM EDT
lots of mis information flying around here....
A suppressor has NOTHING to do with the Assault weapons ban. It is an NFA item and requires the tax stamp to own. you gotta be able to own C3 weapons to get one and there are a bunch of hoops top jump through on the way thier. The good thing is supressors can still be made.

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 8:50:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 8:55:04 PM EDT by AZ-K9]
Originally Posted By OregonShooter:
lots of mis information flying around here....
A suppressor has NOTHING to do with the Assault weapons ban. It is an NFA item and requires the tax stamp to own. you gotta be able to own C3 weapons to get one and there are a bunch of hoops top jump through on the way thier. The good thing is supressors can still be made.

View Quote

Uh wrong slick. The ATF considers a threaded can to be a "flash hider". To put one on the storm would create an "assault weapon", which is not covered by any tax stamp.

I cant put a collapsible stock on my post-ban SBR'ed AR either.

Although, I do wonder if the ATF would let slip a Form 4 for a can, listing a Storm as the weapon. If this happened, it might create some form of defense to prosecution, but not one I'd bet on.

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 8:52:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By OregonShooter:
lots of mis information flying around here....
A suppressor has NOTHING to do with the Assault weapons ban. It is an NFA item and requires the tax stamp to own. you gotta be able to own C3 weapons to get one and there are a bunch of hoops top jump through on the way thier. The good thing is supressors can still be made.

View Quote

how many different ways do we have to explain it?
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 9:16:04 PM EDT
Alright, now I'm confused.  Even with the appropriate ATF paperwork, you can still only suppress a pre-ban firearm?  That BLOWS!!!  I don't know why I never put that together...I guess I never thought about it.

Well, thanks a lot guys, you just pissed me off even more today.  This is like desert after eating [i]WACO: Rules of Engagement[/i] for dinner (which was the first time I ever saw it).
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:28:39 PM EDT
How bout some specifics on the storm?
How reliable is it? how's the accuracy? it does have the evil look factor working in it's favor, plus the $500 price is lookin pretty good. Some say the trigger is mush, others say it's ok.. anyone have any imput on it?
I had no idea the price was so low on these, I just might have to pick one up. Probably no way they're legal here in Kalistan with the detatchable mag and "pistol grip"
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 3:15:43 AM EDT
all I can say is I wish there were some 30 round .45 mags that could fit the beretta storm.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 5:20:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kabal57:
How bout some specifics on the storm?
How reliable is it? how's the accuracy? it does have the evil look factor working in it's favor, plus the $500 price is lookin pretty good. Some say the trigger is mush, others say it's ok.. anyone have any imput on it?
I had no idea the price was so low on these, I just might have to pick one up. Probably no way they're legal here in Kalistan with the detatchable mag and "pistol grip"
View Quote


1. Very Reliable
2. Super Accurate (Get a red dot site)
3. Love mine, and everyone who shot it loves it too.
4. Move OUT of Kalifornistan....NOW!
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 1:03:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Originally Posted By kabal57:
How bout some specifics on the storm?
How reliable is it? how's the accuracy? it does have the evil look factor working in it's favor, plus the $500 price is lookin pretty good. Some say the trigger is mush, others say it's ok.. anyone have any imput on it?
I had no idea the price was so low on these, I just might have to pick one up. Probably no way they're legal here in Kalistan with the detatchable mag and "pistol grip"
View Quote


1. Very Reliable
2. Super Accurate (Get a red dot site)
3. Love mine, and everyone who shot it loves it too.
4. Move OUT of Kalifornistan....NOW!
View Quote


I am :)
once I get done with this little place called Ft. Knox in 3 weeks I'm gonna go on a little gun buying spree. I'm so glad to be outta Kali now, I'm just back for exodus. My poor brother here who don't want to move can't have one.. sux to be him I guess.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 6:01:21 AM EDT
BTT for update.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 6:15:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Yes, but unless you are LEO, you can never put a suppressor on it.

It is the ideal platform for one, though.
View Quote

Why not?  What am I missing here?
View Quote


David Hineline would know more about this. I would contact him.

I would think you could have it reclassified as a Short BBL'ed Rifle---(NFA class now)---Have BBL trimmed to 12-15 in's.

After that paper work completed and approved then do the can.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:23:11 AM EDT
THAT THING IS HOT LOOKING. AND FOR THE MONEY DOESNT SOUND BAD.WHERE IS THE MAG FOR THAT THING I CANT TELL IN THE PIC?
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 12:01:21 PM EDT
So glad to see I'm going to the sandbox for people so willing to just TAKE the freedoms and liberties they should be taking all along...so happy to see so many people giving the big middle finger of freedom to those petty tyrants who like to piss in our morning cheerios and salt our afternoon coffee....here's a big toast to all of those of you NOT being lackys and kissing the gov'ts ass because they've frightened you so badly with their vengeful-god act that you'll niggle over line and verse of their holy firearms scripture....

"I shall render unto God what is Gods, and render unto Caesar what is Caesars...."

What do YOU think the natural right of defending yourself and your family in a manner you see fit falls under? God gave me my life and only He can tell me how I'm going to protect it....
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:35:54 PM EDT
I'll be waiting for the .45 caliber...problem with the .45 caliber is that it holds only 8 rounds...I went as low as I could go with the HK USC...

Post pics of the Storm!  Here is my HK...

[img]http://webpages.charter.net/mateomasfeo/Weapon%20Systems/HK%20USC%203surefire%2003.JPG[/img]

[img]http://webpages.charter.net/mateomasfeo/Weapon%20Systems/oswald.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 6:03:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 6:07:53 PM EDT by CAR-10]
Charlie Foxtrot.

Jargon causes confusion.  That's all.

Back to the point of the thread:  It looks very cool.

It looks like I know what I'll be doing research on for the next few days.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:42:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 7:43:43 PM EDT by clean_cut]
Originally Posted By Chimborazo:
Alright, now I'm confused.  Even with the appropriate ATF paperwork, you can still only suppress a pre-ban firearm?  That BLOWS!!!  I don't know why I never put that together...I guess I never thought about it.

Well, thanks a lot guys, you just pissed me off even more today.  This is like desert after eating [i]WACO: Rules of Engagement[/i] for dinner (which was the first time I ever saw it).
View Quote


You can suppress handguns with approved ATF paperwork.

You can suppress bolt-action long guns, even post-ban.

You can suppress a post-ban Mini-14 with approved ATF paperwork. (Could someone verify this).

You cannot suppress a Beretta Storm or a post-ban AR, period.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:46:05 PM EDT
This looks really cool.  Can you provide a link or contact info on the place you bought this?  Was the $519 a special price you got, or available to anyone who wanted one?

Thanks!!
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:58:36 AM EDT
Kurt makes rails for the storm now.

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/board/board_topic/11341/35674.htm

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 7:30:18 AM EDT

You can suppress a post-ban Mini-14 with approved ATF paperwork. (Could someone verify this).
View Quote


sounds like a go unless it has a pistol grip stock on it.  the AWB is what makes this all confusing.  making a rifle an SBR does nothing to change it's preban/postban status..it just shortens the barrel.

i'd like to try a storm, but they look a little too star trek for my liking.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:31:30 AM EDT
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