Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/29/2005 1:02:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 1:02:48 AM EDT by 22bad]
Both parties are splitting on the illegal issue, the Citizens are pissed, and bush is going to legalize the illegals anyway

GOP divided over Bush's immigration proposal
Plan would allow some people here illegally to qualify for guest-worker visas.

Ron Fournier
Associated Press
August 28, 2005
www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050828/NEWS06/508280457/1012/NEWS06
PHOENIX -- Struggling to pacify his party's warring wings, President Bush is moving toward allowing illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. before February 2004 to qualify for guest-worker visas. People smuggled in after then would be deported.

State leaders in Arizona and New Mexico have stepped up pressure on the Bush administration and the GOP-led Congress to better police U.S. borders and deal with an estimated 10 million people living here illegally.

"They're trying to split the baby," Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said of the White House plan, "and I don't think they can do that."

Bush and his advisers are caught between their supporters in the business sector, who believe the economy needs those workers, and conservatives whose priority is to clamp down on illegal immigration. The White House hopes to have a detailed proposal to Congress in late September or early October.

McCain, who ran against Bush for the 2000 GOP nomination and may seek the White House in 2008, is sponsoring a bill with Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., that would create 400,000 three-year visas for guest workers. The bill has the flexibility to add more in the future and would let undocumented workers stay in the U.S. while they apply.

A competing plan by Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., would create two-year visas and require that guest workers and illegal immigrants leave the U.S. before they can apply for the chance to work legally in the country.

Conservative House Republicans tend to favor Kyl's tougher approach. McCain mocks it.

"Turn yourself in so we can send you back to Mexico," McCain said, throwing his head back in laughter during an interview at his Arizona office recently. "It's not going to happen."

The White House seems to agree with McCain.

According to administration and congressional officials who took part in a series of White House meetings this summer, Bush does not favor requiring illegal immigrants to be sent home to apply for the visas.

In a nod to his conservative base, however, the president has rejected a part of the McCain-Kennedy bill that the White House believes would put illegal immigrants on an automatic track to citizenship, the officials said.

The officials said it was unclear how many illegal immigrants came after February 2004 or how many had children in the U.S., conferring U.S. citizenship on those babies. The White House wants to avoid a surge of illegal immigrants who would try to beat a prospective deadline, they said.

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the White House has not authorized them to discuss the policy, which is subject to change.

All sides agree that illegal immigration has become a national security, humanitarian and economic crisis:

• Intelligence agencies fear terrorists could slip into the U.S. through Mexico.

• Hundreds of illegal immigrants die each year while trying to enter the U.S.

• From construction companies in Arizona to farmers in the Midwest and California, many industries need those cheap and available workers.

Depending on how Hispanics react, this fall's immigration debate could help determine whether Democrats or Republicans dominate the fastest-growing voting bloc in years to come.

The issue threatens to divide Democrats. Affluent, well-educated liberals are embracing immigration as part of cultural diversity. But poor Democrats, including blacks, are wary of Hispanics' growing economic and political clout.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:09:52 AM EDT
Isn't this the same shit that they have been doing OVER and OVER for years???

If you broke the law and came here you can stay. BUT THATS IT!! NO MORE....


a few years later....

If you broke the law and came here you can stay. BUT THATS IT!! NO MORE....

a few years later....

If you broke the law and came here you can stay. BUT THATS IT!! NO MORE....

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:11:25 AM EDT
Reagan and clinton both did it now bush is going to do it too, I want my two votes back
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:13:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Reagan and clinton both did it now bush is going to do it too, I want my two votes back



Sad thing is that the ones who are here, usually vote Dem anyway.

They should stop pandering to that voting block
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:22:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4xys2xxs:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Reagan and clinton both did it now bush is going to do it too, I want my two votes back



Sad thing is that the ones who are here, usually vote Dem anyway.

They should stop pandering to that voting block



Yeah, dems.......the party that fights for civil rights
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:25:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 1:26:13 AM EDT by 4xys2xxs]

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 4xys2xxs:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Reagan and clinton both did it now bush is going to do it too, I want my two votes back



Sad thing is that the ones who are here, usually vote Dem anyway.

They (republicans) should stop pandering to that voting block



Yeah, dems.......the party that fights for civil rights welfare



clarified and fixed
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:34:37 AM EDT
Get ready to start spending a lot more on welfare and prisons as they come here in even greater numbers

Impatience Grows for Immigration Reforms
Sunday, August 28, 2005
By Kelley Beaucar Vlahos
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167282,00.html
WASHINGTON — Editor's note: This is the first article in a two-part series on the debate over illegal immigration.

With two governors in recent weeks declaring a state of emergency because of the upsurge in illegal immigrants in their midst, advocates for tough immigration reform say lawmakers in Washington must pass sweeping legislation this year.

"I want to see their elbows moving, I want to see the sweat on their foreheads to get the work done — no more talk, let's do," said Scott Lingamfelter, a Republican delegate to the Virginia General Assembly who has witnessed a major rise in the number of illegal immigrants reaching northern Virginia, including Prince William County, which he represents.

On Aug. 16, Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano (search), a Democrat, declared a state of emergency on that state's border with Mexico, releasing $1.5 million in emergency funding for law enforcement at the border and other related costs.

A week earlier, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson (search), also a Democrat, declared a state of emergency on his border, calling the illegal immigration problem there "a violent situation." Both said the federal government has failed to pass and enforce effective border control measures.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff wrote Napolitano last week to say he has already ordered an audit of the federal government's surveillance equipment, personnel and other assets available to combat the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants crossing over the U.S.-Mexican border each year.
(he has ordered an AUDIT? BS, he is stalling while the amnesty law is passed)

Chertoff said detention and deportation is a growing priority for the government, which has increased the number of border patrols from 4,000 to 11,000 in the last decade. Chertoff also acknowledged that Americans have lost confidence in the government's ability to guard the borders.

"We have decided to stand back and take a look at how we address the problem and solve it once and for all. The American public is rightly distressed about a situation in which they feel we do not have the proper control over our borders," Chertoff told reporters last Tuesday.

Bills on the Table

Meanwhile, President Bush told reporters this month that he is confident immigration reform will be handled this fall, presumably after the Senate confirmation hearing for Supreme Court nominee John Roberts.
(translation: amnesty is their biggest priority, and legislation will be passed THIS session)

Currently, three bills are on the table in Congress, reflecting different approaches to immigration reform. Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., said he plans to introduce another bill when Congress returns next month. Some lawmakers have suggested they can support only one of the three options while others suggest a fusion of the three might be possible.

"Everybody seems to be in the same ballpark and talking about the same issues," said Angelo Amador, director of immigration policy for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

But the sticking points in the three bills are hardly small ones, particularly on the issue of guest worker status for illegal aliens already working in this country.

The Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act, authored by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., and by Reps. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., Jeff Flake and Jim Kolbe, both Arizona Republicans, would allow 400,000 illegal immigrants in the United States to stay on temporary work visas provided they pay an initial fine of $1,000, go through an extensive background check and can demonstrate they were working in the country before the legislation was passed.

The workers then can apply for permanent residency after six years if they pay an additional $1,000, demonstrate civic and English competency, have paid all back taxes and clear criminal background checks. These provisions are part of a larger measure that aims to bolster the nation's border security strategy and enforce other laws against illegal aliens.

Flake said this approach deals constructively with the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the country now, about 6 million of whom are populating the U.S. workforce.

"Look at your options, and ask what is the most reasonable approach to registering people here now and bringing them out of the shadows and to force them to pay back taxes," he said. "The question is: How do you deal with both the people here now and provide for future flows of illegal workers?"

Critics say the plan is nothing more than an amnesty for people who broke the law to get here in the first place.

"I think a lot of people in the immigration reform movement think that just goes too far," said Phil Kent of Americans for Immigration Control, which opposes "amnesty" programs and has warned that a big chunk of the Republican conservative base is firmly against them.

"McCain-Kennedy reflects the view, if you will, of those who might be described as the immigration advocacy groups, the groups that want the highest immigration possible," said Steve Camerota, head of the Center for Immigration Studies, which also opposes the guest worker proposal and defends tougher law enforcement as the only way to go.

A bill sponsored by Sens. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., and John Cornyn, R-Texas, appears more palatable to these critics, though it too does contain a form of guest worker plan.

The Comprehensive Enforcement and Immigration Act is heavy on direct law enforcement, with stiffer penalties, swifter deportations and more effective screening methods.

According to the bill, illegal workers can apply for temporary worker status but they would have to go back to their home country first. They would have five years to leave here, being fined each year after the first and would lose all opportunities to come back under this program if they don't leave voluntarily and are deported.

"Beyond the notion of returning the rule of law to the border, the single most important aspect of this bill is that it does not reward those who have broken the law and does not constitute amnesty," Kyl said.

John Gay, spokesman for the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition, said his group of trade and business associations is concerned that thousands of jobs will be vacated en masse if this bill were passed.

"The question is do you want to be crippling part of the U.S. economy by sending all of these people home?" he said.

Other critics of the Kyl-Cornyn bill say it is unrealistic to believe illegal workers will come forward to be sent back home.

"That creates a problem because the question is why would people leave if you have such leniency, and how do you track exactly how long they've been here?" said Will Adams, spokesman for Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo.

Tancredo's bill would allow illegal immigrants to apply for guest worker status from their home country, but only after the United States had completed a checklist of law enforcement reforms, like stricter penalties for illegal aliens. Such measures would include making it more difficult for illegal aliens to work and the children of illegals would lose all non-emergency social benefits like welfare and in-state college tuition.

"Through that theory, there is every incentive to go back," said Adams. "The 10,000-foot view is it would be very difficult to be illegal and be here."

Room for Compromise?

Bush has expressed interest in a guest worker plan, but has not endorsed specific legislation, and in a nod to conservatives in his party angry about border insecurity, has been adamant that he does not support blanket amnesty for illegal workers.

But many conservatives argue the president's proposals are lax, encourage illegals to risk death by crossing from the southern border and overlook the possibility of terrorists creeping through.

White House aides said this week that the administration hopes to have a detailed proposal to Congress in late September or early October. The proposal could include specific legislative language to be dropped into a bill. But observers say they are not confident any legislation will be passed.

"There's a political stalemate," said Camerota, who added that guest worker status is the ultimate obstacle for future negotiations. "It's hard to see a way around these problems. I could be wrong but it's hard to see how we would get to some kind of compromise."

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, which supports the McCain-Kennedy plan, is more optimistic about blending the strong points of the different proposals, said Amador.

"I think there are ways of making people happy."
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:42:24 AM EDT
Can I get a reacurring tax amnesty?

Every year on April 15th, I'll swear to pay my taxes next year. I had been trying for a better life for my family all year, that's why I didn't go through the proper channels and pay my taxes all year.

Honest!!!

In reality, I think I'd be thrown in a dark hole and forgotten about.

Grrrrrrrr.

PS. to get back to the article. I'll be happy when millions of illegals die each year while trying to enter the U.S.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:43:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4xys2xxs:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By 4xys2xxs:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Reagan and clinton both did it now bush is going to do it too, I want my two votes back



Sad thing is that the ones who are here, usually vote Dem anyway.

They (republicans) should stop pandering to that voting block



Yeah, dems.......the party that fights for civil rights welfare



clarified and fixed



Yeah, the illegals will vote for that, most of them are using multiple welfare accounts with stolen ss numbers
they commit more crimes than any other group of people, even nigerian scammers, and THATS saying something
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:45:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Both parties are splitting on the illegal issue, the Citizens are pissed, and bush is going to legalize the illegals anyway


PHOENIX -- Struggling to pacify his party's warring wings, not to look like President Fox's BITCH President Bush is moving toward allowing illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. before February 2004 to qualify for guest-worker visas. People smuggled in after then would be deported.
to be rewarded for breaking the law
State leaders in Arizona and New Mexico have stepped up pressure on the Bush administration and the GOP-led Congress to better police U.S. borders and deal with an estimated 10 million people living here illegally.only because if they didn't, they would be faceing impeacment before Christmas

"They're trying to split the baby," Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said of the White House plan, "and I don't think they canwant them to do that."

Bush and his advisers are caught between their supporters in the business sector, who believe the economy needs that exploiting those workers is better for the bottom line in the short term, FUCK AMERICA LONG TERM, and conservatives whose priority is to clamp down on illegal immigration. The White House hopes to have a detailed proposal to Congress in late September or early October.
this will all go away.
McCain, who ran against Bush for the 2000 GOP nomination and may seek the White House in 2008, is trying to court the MSM sponsoring a bill with Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., that would create 400,000 three-year visas for guest workers. The bill has the flexibility to add more in the future and would let undocumented workers stay in the U.S. while they apply.

A competing plan by Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., would create two-year visas and require that guest workers and illegal immigrants leave the U.S. before they can apply for the chance to work legally in the country.

Conservative House Republicans tend to favor Kyl's tougher approach. McCain mocks it.

"Turn yourself in so we can send you back to Mexico," McCain said, throwing his head back in laughter during an interview at his Arizona office recently. "It's not going to happen and niether is a Bill that would punish companies that hire illegals."

The White House seems to agree with McCain.

According to administration and congressional officials who took part in a series of White House meetings this summer, Bush does not favor requiring illegal immigrants to be sent home to apply for the visas as it would hurt his corporate masters bottom line.

In a nod sop to his conservative base, however, the president has rejected a part of the McCain-Kennedy bill that the White House believes would put illegal immigrants on an automatic track to citizenship, the officials said.

The officials said it was unclear how many illegal immigrants came after February 2004 or how many had children in the U.S., conferring U.S. citizenship on those babies. The White House wants to avoid a surge of illegal immigrants who would try to beat a prospective deadline, they said.

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the White House has not authorized them to discuss the policy, which is subject to change.

All sides agree that illegal immigration has become a national security, humanitarian and economic crisis:

• Intelligence agencies fear know terrorists could slip have slipped into the U.S. through CANADA (9/11) and don't have a clue about Mexico.

• Hundreds of illegal immigrants die each year while trying to enter the U.S.

• From construction companies in Arizona to farmers in the Midwest and California, many industries need those have become addicted to cheap and available workers.

Depending on how Hispanics react America reacts, this fall's immigration debate could help determine whether Democrats or Republicans hispanics dominate the fastest-growing voting bloc in years to come. entire american continent or not.

The issue threatens to divide Democrats turn America into another third world country. Affluent, well-educated idiotic liberals are embracing immigration as part of cultural diversity a way to further under-cut America. But poor Democrats, including blacks, are wary of Hispanics' growing economic and political clout the gray train coming to the end of the line.



Fixed the whole fucking thing
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:47:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:
Can I get a reacurring tax amnesty?

Every year on April 15th, I'll swear to pay my taxes next year. I had been trying for a better life for my family all year, that's why I didn't go through the proper channels and pay my taxes all year.

Honest!!!

In reality, I think I'd be thrown in a dark hole and forgotten about.

Grrrrrrrr.

PS. to get back to the article. I'll be happy when millions of illegals die each year while trying to enter the U.S.



What do you think would happen to YOU if you did a dui hit and run with no license or insurance
and were caught with fake social security cards in your wallet..........they don't even get charged

some of the congressmen are having to pretend to deal with the illegals because their constituents
are PISSED because illegals that have been busted MULTIPLE times for dui kept driving and
KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE WHILE DRIVING DUI
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:59:51 AM EDT
I think a blanket amnesty may be the straw that breaks the camels back and unleash a rash of violence against suspected illegal aliens that "profile".

If he is seriously still singing this song, President Bush is a complete ASSHAT.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:02:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:
I think a blanket amnesty may be the straw that breaks the camels back and unleash a rash of violence against suspected illegal aliens that "profile".

If he is seriously still singing this song, President Bush is a complete ASSHAT.



He is waaaay past serious, and waaaay past asshat
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:04:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
I think a blanket amnesty may be the straw that breaks the camels back and unleash a rash of violence against suspected illegal aliens that "profile".

If he is seriously still singing this song, President Bush is a complete ASSHAT.



He is waaaay past serious, and waaaay past asshat



Lock and load, boys!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:06:51 AM EDT
I have come to the conclusion that Bush is a clue-free asshat on many subjects. Not all, but many.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:09:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
I have come to the conclusion that Bush is a clue-free asshat on many subjects. Not all, but many.



No, the problem is he knows exactly what he's doing
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:10:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
I have come to the conclusion that Bush is a clue-free asshat on many subjects. Not all, but many.



I am willing to give any pres the benefit of the doubt on most anything non-criminal(even clinton)
BUT NOT AN INVASION OF THE US THAT HE IS ACTUALLY HELPING THEM WITH
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 2:11:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
I have come to the conclusion that Bush is a clue-free asshat on many subjects. Not all, but many.



No, the problem is he knows exactly what he's doing


You may be right
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:56:24 PM EDT
Looks like our homeland security is going to "study" the problem for a while
(they told the Govenors that they are auditing their equipment to see what is available)

Bush pledges to work with states to address illegal immigration
Aug. 29, 2005
MICHELLE ROBERTS
The Associated Press
www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/082905AZ_Bush_Visit.php
EL MIRAGE, Ariz. - President Bush said Monday he will work with Gov. Janet Napolitano and other border governors to secure the U.S.-Mexico border, where political leaders have been calling for help to deal with waves of illegal immigrants.
Bush told a crowd in a retirement community that he understands the federal government's obligation to enforce the border.

"It's important for the people of this state to understand, your voices are being heard in Washington, D.C.," Bush said.

Making reference to U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl, who introduced Bush, the president said "this senator and this Congress are going to work closely with the administration to make sure we have the resources necessary to do our responsibility, which is to enforce this border. And we'll do so."

He said he spoke to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff on Monday about the issue. "I said, 'Are you working with the governor? You bet we are,' " Bush said. "That's the most effective way to do things, to work with the state and local authorities."


Bush's remarks came in a state that has borne the brunt of the illegal immigration problem for years. Arizona is the most popular crossing point for illegal immigrants on the U.S.-Mexico border.

Napolitano declared an emergency earlier this month in the state's four border counties and approved spending $1.5 million from the state's disaster fund to help pay for law enforcement and other costs stemming from illegal immigration in those areas.

At the time, she referred to the federal immigration system as "broken and underfunded."

El Mirage resident Bill Kowalski, 67, who attended Bush's event, said he doesn't feel enough is being done to catch employers who are hiring illegal workers.

Illegal immigration is a "real problem," Kowalski said. "It's only going to get worse."

(the rest of the article is about bush's medicare plan)
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 12:05:47 AM EDT
Business as usual for the illegals crossing illegally and stealing\damaging private property.........

Break-ins, litter, bodies are daily realities in Altar Valley
By Michael Marizco
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
www.dailystar.com/dailystar/metro/90755.php
ALTAR VALLEY - Roy Isaman has arrived at a dubious distinction: His Southern Arizona ranch sits on the busiest crossing point for illegal entrants from Mexico.

El Mirador Ranch borders Sasabe, Sonora, southwest of Tucson, and at times you don't know if you're looking at Mexico or standing in it. Whole sections of the barbed-wire fence that separates his ranch from the smuggler haven across the way are missing, trampled or lying in large curls on the ground - cut by smugglers trying to avoid Arizona Highway 286.

Ask him why he doesn't fix the fence and he looks surprised for a moment, then says, "I don't even worry about the Mexican fence. I have enough problems with the rest of the fence."

The human flood pouring through his land and all along the border prompted the governor to declare an emergency on Aug. 15, freeing up $1.5 million of state funds in a bid to help. But how the state will spend those funds is still unclear.

Ranchers along this stretch of the U.S.-Mexican border face the heaviest amount of foot traffic because illegal entrants and drug smugglers have been chased away from Cochise County and the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation this year. A concentration of U.S. Border Patrol agents in those areas moved border crossers into the Altar Valley, where these ranchers now deal with them. The agency's Tucson station, which covers much of this area, has had a sharp rise in apprehensions up to 60 percent from last year.

Thirty-five miles up the highway from Isaman, third-generation rancher John King keeps a jaundiced eye on the slashed fences and his smashed-up well, the result of thirsty illegal border crossers trying to get water out of the closed system.

The nation's top homeland security official, Michael Chertoff, reported that a plan was already in the works to bring Arizona's border under control even before Gov. Janet Napolitano declared Arizona's border with Mexico an emergency.

You couldn't tell there was a plan on a recent Sunday afternoon, though, in the vicinity of Solano Canyon, which drops down from the Baboquivari Mountains onto King's ranch. The garbage in the creek is typical of areas heavily used by illegal entrants: backpacks, discarded clothes, water bottles, empty cans and packages of food that presumably belonged to people who hope one day for jobs somewhere in the United States.

Nor could you tell the afternoon before, when a cowboy, Jason Cathcart, found the skeletal remains of two people in a wash five miles west on the dirt road from King's house.

For Cathcart, that makes four corpses he's encountered this summer alone.

Two weeks ago, he came home to find somebody had smashed a window at his home and stolen food and clothes, a Pima County Sheriff's Department report shows. He smiled when he likened the event to the much publicized break-in at U.S. Rep. Jim Kolbe's home near Nogales, Ariz., last month.

"Tell him I know exactly what he's going through," he says.

Law-enforcement officials don't keep track of border-related crime in Southern Arizona, but the anecdotes don't stop.

Sheriff's Deputy Allen Wil-liams informally tracks them by the calls he receives in the Altar Valley. On Tuesday he had three calls, only one of which didn't involve the border. One was a migrant smuggler with 14 people. In a second, he chased down a truck through the desert carrying 500 pounds of marijuana at 5:30 a.m. The driver got away.

"Most of the people are pretty well fed up with it and wish the federal government would take action and close the border," Williams said.

That's not likely to happen soon, but homeland security chief Chertoff said the department is working on a plan, according to a New York Times report earlier this week.

Arizona also is acting, emulating a New Mexico strategy in declaring an emergency, citing stolen cars and property crime along the border as the reason.

The question for individual property owners is whether any of the $1.5 million in emergency funds will be spent on helping them recuperate from some of the damages they've experienced.

That's not likely because private-property owners such as the Kings or the Isamans aren't eligible, by statute, for the money, which will go only to political subdivisions, said Cam Hunter, spokeswoman for the state's Office of Homeland Security.

Right now, counties and communities are looking at how to apply for their share of the money, she said. So far, the only declared allocation of the emergency funds has been to place 13 state officers in Nogales, Bisbee and San Luis for 30 days to counter car theft, she said.

Electronic surveillance of areas under threat from illegal entry are being considered but no facilities have been selected, Hunter said.

She expects the process for deciding how to spend the money will go slowly.

"It's not as straightforward as what we do in a flood or what we do in a fire because we haven't done it before," Hunter said.

Meanwhile, Jon Rowley fiddles with a broken water spout at his Arivaca cattle ranch, the result of what he calls "wanton migration" into the United States.

Last year, he had to test his bulls for bovine trichomoniasis, when his neighbors encountered it in their own herd. The cut fences meant his own herd was susceptible to "trich."

Peggy, his wife, looks at the glorious, green rolling pasture around their home the way a New Yorker would look at Central Park - beautiful, but best not to jog alone because something might happen.

"I don't want to run into large groups of people by myself," she said. "It's scary."

They're not really interested in recouping losses from the state's emergency fund, Jon Rowley said.

"It's such an insignificant amount; it's best not spent until a serious plan is devised," he said.

Down the road in Sasabe, Sonora, an equally unimpressed Saúl Hernandez negotiates with a group of three nervous Mexican men.

Hernandez told them to wait until more people arrived. "I'll get you across, but I want more people."

The 26-year-old smuggler is proud of the silver Ford F-250 he was able to buy this year with smuggling dollars.

Lightning cracks in the darkening sky moving south from Tucson as he smokes his cigarette.

"I don't give a damn what they do," he says. "They're not going to close me off the border."
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 12:08:15 AM EDT

The nation's top homeland security official, Michael Chertoff, reported that a plan was already in the works to bring Arizona's border under control even before Gov. Janet Napolitano declared Arizona's border with Mexico an emergency.


homeland security has a plan? they had it before the Govenors declared an emergency?
must be one of them top secret plans, I wonder if it will also stop the terrorists that cross
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 12:22:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
GOP divided over Bush's immigration proposal, BUSH AMNESTY IS COMING.



Sure makes me want to vote Republican.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 12:24:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
GOP divided over Bush's immigration proposal, BUSH AMNESTY IS COMING.



Sure makes me want to vote Republican.



Its gonna feel strange NOT voting republican for the first time in 25 years
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:34:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
GOP divided over Bush's immigration proposal, BUSH AMNESTY IS COMING.



Sure makes me want to vote Republican.



Its gonna feel strange NOT voting republican for the first time in 25 years



They think they have our balls in a vice if Hillary is the other choice.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:44:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 2:16:56 AM EDT by nationwide]

Originally Posted By mtchristman:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
GOP divided over Bush's immigration proposal, BUSH AMNESTY IS COMING.



Sure makes me want to vote Republican.



Its gonna feel strange NOT voting republican for the first time in 25 years



They think they have our balls in a vice if Hillary is the other choice.



I'm ready for a wiminz president

ETA: Any blanket amnesty program + no successful lockdown of the border = George W. Bush AND the Republican party selling us out. Frankly, after 8 years (come '08) if the Republicans refuse to fix the problem, fine. I'm through with them.

I'll pay higher taxes for more social services. A Democrat is predictable, we know what they are gonna do. We know they are going to try to take our guns. We know they will tax us into oblivion. We can deal with that.

How can we deal with a Republican party that is two faced and refuses to live up to the ideals of its constituents? Fuck 'em in '08.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:16:19 AM EDT
I especially like how the amnesty is for people who came illegally before february 2004. Trying to make it look like the give a fuck by adding totally ineffective padding to the language.

Immigration official: When did you arrive here?

Illegal filth bag: No ablo


Immigration interpreter guy: El when-o did el you arriv-o, before-o el februaro 2005-o wink wink?

Illegal filth bucket: oh, ce' ce' I come in JUANUARY 2004. My donkey he die so I steal a car and drink since the daybreak!


How the fuck do they know when the illegal got here? Why don't they just call it what it is? An amnesty for any illegal who can get here before the amnesty. Are they really this stupid or do they just think we are?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:21:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hatebreed:

How the fuck do they know when the illegal got here?



They know by checking health care, employment, and tax records.

These people are working, they are getting sick, and they are paying taxes... just like everyone else.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:23:04 AM EDT
NOW is the time to TRY to do something about it, not after the fact as we know. Are there any grassroots movements we can participate in addition to the normal phone calls? I'm ready to fight this as i'm sure most are.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:27:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By none_other:
NOW is the time to TRY to do something about it, not after the fact as we know. Are there any grassroots movements we can participate in addition to the normal phone calls? I'm ready to fight this as i'm sure most are.



Yeah, you can join your local militia orginization... no, wait... the FEDs ran them off. You can't get a member of any REAL militia to rub two sticks together to start a fire now.

WAIT!!! You can join Ranch Rescue and take up a station on the border, and help stop the flow of criminals and drugs into this country... even get some trigger time! Oh, sorry... FEDs shut them down due to "human rights" and "weapon possesion" violations...

Oh, I know! You can join the KKK!!! They are racist, I'm sure that they would love to tackle the issue of all these non-whites pouring into the country! What? Oh yeah... FEDs got the Klan knocked down to a "linen enthusiast" orginization.

No, we are pretty much FUCKED IN THE ASS on this one.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:43:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By none_other:
NOW is the time to TRY to do something about it, not after the fact as we know. Are there any grassroots movements we can participate in addition to the normal phone calls? I'm ready to fight this as i'm sure most are.



Yeah, you can join your local militia orginization... no, wait... the FEDs ran them off. You can't get a member of any REAL militia to rub two sticks together to start a fire now.

WAIT!!! You can join Ranch Rescue and take up a station on the border, and help stop the flow of criminals and drugs into this country... even get some trigger time! Oh, sorry... FEDs shut them down due to "human rights" and "weapon possesion" violations...

Oh, I know! You can join the KKK!!! They are racist, I'm sure that they would love to tackle the issue of all these non-whites pouring into the country! What? Oh yeah... FEDs got the Klan knocked down to a "linen enthusiast" orginization.

No, we are pretty much FUCKED IN THE ASS on this one.




My one man militia is on standby!

Just looking to help make some noise to do my part if nothing else. Do we have info on Minute Men or other border patrols orgs that have any plans for this? Im not always in the loop out here in the pacific, help me out!
Top Top