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Posted: 6/3/2008 3:48:53 AM EST
Makes sense to me.

www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a_HL22tswTWE&refer=home



June 3 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., struggling to return to profit after three annual losses, said it will close four plants, introduce new small cars and review whether to shed its Hummer brand of large sport-utility vehicles.

Gasoline prices exceeding $4 a gallon represent ``a structural change, not just a cyclical change,'' Chief Executive Rick Wagoner told reporters today before the Detroit automaker's annual shareholder's meeting in Wilmington, Delaware.

The four plant closings will save $1 billion and cut North American truck capacity by 700,000 vehicles, he said. At Hummer, ``we're considering all options from a complete revamp to a partial or complete sale of the brand,'' Wagoner said.

Wagoner's priorities are shifting because gasoline has more than doubled since 2004, including this year's 31 percent climb to $4. As losses totaled $54 billion over 39 months, he focused on expanding Detroit-based GM's sales overseas while improving vehicles and cutting costs at home, including a wage-reducing accord with the United Auto Workers in 2007.

GM also approved the production version of the Chevrolet Volt electric car and adding third production shifts at some car plants.

``It is significant, but this is a late reaction to changing market dynamics,'' said Dennis Virag, president of Automotive Consulting Group in Ann Arbor, Michigan. ``The plans really should have been in place a number of years ago.''

GM rose 36 cents to $17.80 at 8:29 a.m. before regular New York Stock Exchange composite trading.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:51:32 AM EST
My Dad used to teach at a local vocational school and during Desert Storm I got to go to the Hummer Plant with his class and beat on Military Hummer with the gauges printed in Arabic for the Saudis in Indiana. It is amazing what those things can do. You'd be surprised how small the factory was (back then anyway)
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:10:23 AM EST
WTF does GM have to do with my gf giving me a hummer, or getting rid of the chance?

TXL
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:14:18 AM EST
Were those US plants or Canadian/Mexican plants that closed?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:15:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By lildavid67:
Were those US plants or Canadian/Mexican plants that closed?


For the NYtimes site:

"The chief executive Rick Wagoner said Tuesday before the automaker’s annual meeting that G.M. would cease production at a full-size pickup factory in Oshawa, Ontario. It will also stop making S.U.V.s at plants in Moraine, Ohio, and Janesville, Wis., and it will stop making mid-size pickups in Toluca, Mexico.

The Hummer brand might be discontinued."
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:16:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By lildavid67:
Were those US plants or Canadian/Mexican plants that closed?


The plants to be closed include two U.S. facilities - Moraine, Ohio and Janesville, Wis. - along with plants in Oshawa, Ontario and Toluca, Mexico.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:21:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
My Dad used to teach at a local vocational school and during Desert Storm I got to go to the Hummer Plant with his class and beat on Military Hummer with the gauges printed in Arabic for the Saudis in Indiana. It is amazing what those things can do. You'd be surprised how small the factory was (back then anyway)


I'm not 100% sure but I thought GM had a license to use the trademark Hummer for their GM produced vehicles; the "real" Hummer (which your dad worked on) is made by an entirely different company. I could be wrong, but that would explain the durability differences between the "real" Hummers and the GM branded ones.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:24:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By stockshift:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
My Dad used to teach at a local vocational school and during Desert Storm I got to go to the Hummer Plant with his class and beat on Military Hummer with the gauges printed in Arabic for the Saudis in Indiana. It is amazing what those things can do. You'd be surprised how small the factory was (back then anyway)


I'm not 100% sure but I thought GM had a license to use the trademark Hummer for their GM produced vehicles; the "real" Hummer (which your dad worked on) is made by an entirely different company. I could be wrong, but that would explain the durability differences between the "real" Hummers and the GM branded ones.


AM General makes the "Real" Hummers. They also build Hummer H2's under contract for GM. But, the H2 is a GM design, not an AM General one.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:24:39 AM EST
I like the H1, fuck the H2 "LunchBox"
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:25:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By stockshift:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
My Dad used to teach at a local vocational school and during Desert Storm I got to go to the Hummer Plant with his class and beat on Military Hummer with the gauges printed in Arabic for the Saudis in Indiana. It is amazing what those things can do. You'd be surprised how small the factory was (back then anyway)


I'm not 100% sure but I thought GM had a license to use the trademark Hummer for their GM produced vehicles; the "real" Hummer (which your dad worked on) is made by an entirely different company. I could be wrong, but that would explain the durability differences between the "real" Hummers and the GM branded ones.


AM General makes the "Real" Hummers. They also build Hummer H2's under contract for GM. But, the H2 is a GM design, not an AM General one.


Yes, it was an AM General plant. Somewhere in Northern Indiana, it was a lot of fun. One of the last things I did with my Dad before he left this shitty world.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:26:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By stockshift:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
My Dad used to teach at a local vocational school and during Desert Storm I got to go to the Hummer Plant with his class and beat on Military Hummer with the gauges printed in Arabic for the Saudis in Indiana. It is amazing what those things can do. You'd be surprised how small the factory was (back then anyway)


I'm not 100% sure but I thought GM had a license to use the trademark Hummer for their GM produced vehicles; the "real" Hummer (which your dad worked on) is made by an entirely different company. I could be wrong, but that would explain the durability differences between the "real" Hummers and the GM branded ones.


I believe you are correct, yes. This place just made Military stuff and it pre-dated Civilian Hummers or they were in very small numbers. To be specific it was a little after the war ended, early 90's not sure of the exact year.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:28:54 AM EST
Good I hate those POS poser garbage
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:30:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By stockshift:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
My Dad used to teach at a local vocational school and during Desert Storm I got to go to the Hummer Plant with his class and beat on Military Hummer with the gauges printed in Arabic for the Saudis in Indiana. It is amazing what those things can do. You'd be surprised how small the factory was (back then anyway)


I'm not 100% sure but I thought GM had a license to use the trademark Hummer for their GM produced vehicles; the "real" Hummer (which your dad worked on) is made by an entirely different company. I could be wrong, but that would explain the durability differences between the "real" Hummers and the GM branded ones.


AM General makes the "Real" Hummers. They also build Hummer H2's under contract for GM. But, the H2 is a GM design, not an AM General one.


Yes, it was an AM General plant. Somewhere in Northern Indiana, it was a lot of fun. One of the last things I did with my Dad before he left this shitty world.


The AM General plant is in Mishawaka, Indiana.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:30:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By TX-OCD:
Good I hate those POS poser garbage


Same here. There is NO PLACE for those things (H1's) on the streets.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be alowed to buy one, but anyone who has one as a daily driver in a city (and I know someone who at least did at one point) is an idiot. If you're out in the countryside and it works for you, then by all means enjoy it.

As for H2 and H3, they are poser vehicles.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:37:26 AM EST
Looks like Escalade sales will go up.

With no Hummers the cool soccer moms and urban heros will have less choices of what to drive.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:42:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By 455SD:
Looks like Escalade sales will go up.

With no Hummers the cool soccer moms and urban heros will have less choices of what to drive.


Your post is a bit ironic considering your screen name...

Do you think a soccer mom has less right to spend her money on what she wants than you do?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:44:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By stockshift:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
My Dad used to teach at a local vocational school and during Desert Storm I got to go to the Hummer Plant with his class and beat on Military Hummer with the gauges printed in Arabic for the Saudis in Indiana. It is amazing what those things can do. You'd be surprised how small the factory was (back then anyway)


I'm not 100% sure but I thought GM had a license to use the trademark Hummer for their GM produced vehicles; the "real" Hummer (which your dad worked on) is made by an entirely different company. I could be wrong, but that would explain the durability differences between the "real" Hummers and the GM branded ones.


AM General makes the "Real" Hummers. They also build Hummer H2's under contract for GM. But, the H2 is a GM design, not an AM General one.


Yes, it was an AM General plant. Somewhere in Northern Indiana, it was a lot of fun. One of the last things I did with my Dad before he left this shitty world.


The AM General plant is in Mishawaka, Indiana.


There ya go.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:44:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By 455SD:
Looks like Escalade sales will go up.

With no Hummers the cool soccer moms and urban heros will have less choices of what to drive.


Your post is a bit ironic considering your screen name...

Do you think a soccer mom has less right to spend her money on what she wants than you do?


Soccer Moms don't have any money, their Husbands do.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:46:29 AM EST
You know, anyone that has the money to buy a brand new H2 probably isn't too concerned with the extra $25-30 it's costing to fill their take up now over a year ago.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:47:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Soccer Moms don't have any money, their Husbands do.


Ergo, they have money...
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:47:46 AM EST
Hummer Boxy Suburban

That thing has about as much to do with a Hummer as the man in the moon.

"Just Because the Cat has Kittens in the Oven, it Don't Make Them Biscuits..."
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:54:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Soccer Moms don't have any money, their Husbands do.


I tell my Soccer Mom Wife this all the time. It doesn't go over well.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:56:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Soccer Moms don't have any money, their Husbands do.


Ergo, they have money...


+1

And in the event of divorce, they will have more $ than the ex-husband.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:59:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By 455SD:
Looks like Escalade sales will go up.

With no Hummers the cool soccer moms and urban heros will have less choices of what to drive.


Your post is a bit ironic considering your screen name...

Do you think a soccer mom has less right to spend her money on what she wants than you do?


Soccer moms can spend money on whatever the hell they want.

What I find ironic is the whole luxury 4x4/status symbol concept.

Have you ever notice how many H2 badges an H2 has? Somebody definitely wants to make sure you know what it is.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:00:59 AM EST
Good! As far as I'm concerned, they already did...
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:03:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Greggy_D:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Soccer Moms don't have any money, their Husbands do.


I tell my Soccer Mom Wife this all the time. It doesn't go over well.


There are ways to get your balls back.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:04:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:07:09 AM EST
I hate these articles, they always say plants are closing, but never say what vehicles..
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:17:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:22:46 AM EST
The deeper message here is that $4/gal gas is here to stay.

You can bet that GM does research on long-term trends before shuttering plants, and their crystal ball says low-mpg vehicles are going to tank.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:35:58 AM EST
I see fewer and fewer SUVs in the morning on the way to work. Still too many IMHO, but people seem to be getting the message that gas isn't going to be dropping anytime soon.

My GF seems to be a lot happier taking long drives in my Scion (>30 mpg highway) than her V8 Explorer (20 mpg with the wind at your back.)


For those who think "well, it's only a few dollars more at the pump..." you're not just burning today's gas, but tomorrow's as well.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:40:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By TX-OCD:
Good I hate those POS poser garbage


Same here. There is NO PLACE for those things (H1's) on the streets.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be alowed to buy one, but anyone who has one as a daily driver in a city (and I know someone who at least did at one point) is an idiot. If you're out in the countryside and it works for you, then by all means enjoy it.

As for H2 and H3, they are poser vehicles.

STFU! What are you a communist?

What next? ................"there is no place for a military assault-type-looking rifle for civilians?"


A big +1. Frankly, if they want to drive a half track around town, I could care less. It's all about personal freedom. Like, EdSr said, there really isn't any difference in the arguments againts Humvees than the arguments against EBR's.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:41:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Steve_in_Washington:
I see fewer and fewer SUVs in the morning on the way to work. Still too many IMHO, but people seem to be getting the message that gas isn't going to be dropping anytime soon.

My GF seems to be a lot happier taking long drives in my Scion (>30 mpg highway) than her V8 Explorer (20 mpg with the wind at your back.)


For those who think "well, it's only a few dollars more at the pump..." you're not just burning today's gas, but tomorrow's as well.


Hippy.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:42:25 AM EST
Friggin rubbish POS. About time they got rid of it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:52:15 AM EST
As a huge fan of the H1, I'd be happy to see GM GTFO of the Hummer brand name. It was a sad day when they took it over to begin with.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:52:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hiaboo:
Friggin rubbish POS. About time they got rid of it.


+100000

...and WAY overpriced, I might add.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:57:04 AM EST
I'm not for telling people what to drive, but I do resent the soccer moms who ride my rear bumper while on their cell phone and using so much fuel. If there was less demand for fuel, the prices could drop. As long as the oil producing nations can sell every barrel of oil they produce they can charge whatever the hell they want to.
I have 2 Honda's in my driveway as I prefer to waste my money on firearms and ammo.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 6:15:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By SniperMan1984:
I like the H1, fuck the H2 "LunchBox"


Yeah it's just a chevy truck with an ugly body.
I do love the H1 though.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 6:33:42 AM EST
A) The Hummer was a great vehicle
B) The Hummer2 was lousy
C) The Hummer3 was (in effect) a Jeep.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:14:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:
The deeper message here is that $4/gal gas is here to stay.

You can bet that GM does research on long-term trends before shuttering plants, and their crystal ball says low-mpg vehicles are going to tank.


Your post seems to assume that GM management knows what they are doing. There is scant evidence of this being true now for a LONG time.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:31:32 AM EST
Just to be more clear I was referring to the H2 and H3 GM Vehicles as Poser POS. Its garbage and Im glad they gave up on it-- I dont like US workers losing their jobs but thats another discussion.-- I dont think any vehicles should be outlawed in fact Im a strong supporter of ATVs being registered on street. The sad fact is that someday a carburetor will be a thing of the past or taxed until it disappears.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:34:20 AM EST
Want to drive a liberal crazy? Make the Hummer into a hybrid....
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:39:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Merrell:
The deeper message here is that $4/gal gas is here to stay.

You can bet that GM does research on long-term trends before shuttering plants, and their crystal ball says low-mpg vehicles are going to tank.


Your post seems to assume that GM management knows what they are doing. There is scant evidence of this being true now for a LONG time.
Ditto on PAEBR332's remark. GM has always been behind the curve rather than the front of the curve. I don't know how many years it takes to design, build, a bring new cars to market, but it is a long time. By the time GM gets their little car to market, demand for their car will be gone, and there will be strong demand for bigger cars. The problem with GM is not building the right car at the right time, it building a quality car that will last longer than 5-6 years after the car has been paid off. People can no longer afford to just throw away a $30K vehicle.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:40:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 7:42:14 AM EST by Zaphod]

Originally Posted By Willmar:

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By TX-OCD:
Good I hate those POS poser garbage


Same here. There is NO PLACE for those things (H1's) on the streets.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be alowed to buy one, but anyone who has one as a daily driver in a city (and I know someone who at least did at one point) is an idiot. If you're out in the countryside and it works for you, then by all means enjoy it.

As for H2 and H3, they are poser vehicles.

STFU! What are you a communist?

What next? ................"there is no place for a military assault-type-looking rifle for civilians?"


A big +1. Frankly, if they want to drive a half track around town, I could care less. It's all about personal freedom. Like, EdSr said, there really isn't any difference in the arguments againts Humvees than the arguments against EBR's.


Read the next sentence, gentlemen!!
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:44:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By RichinCM:
Want to drive a liberal crazy? Make the Hummer into a hybrid....


Just what I was thinking.

And to be honest - I'm surprised they haven't. I mean, they already got an Escalade hybrid, it gets 20 MPG city driving.

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:53:38 AM EST
I like the look of Hummers.

GM has too many brands as it is, Hummer is the least of their issues.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:59:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chokey:

Originally Posted By lildavid67:
Were those US plants or Canadian/Mexican plants that closed?


The plants to be closed include two U.S. facilities - Moraine, Ohio and Janesville, Wis. - along with plants in Oshawa, Ontario and Toluca, Mexico.


That sucks. I have a few cousins that work at the Moraine City plant that builds Chevy TrailBlazers.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:06:35 AM EST
A neighbor bought an H3 last week that was one year old and only had about 10k miles on it for $18k. Twelve months earlier it sold on the lot for $29k. That's depreciation.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:09:10 AM EST
No loss.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:13:01 AM EST
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! I was waiting for gas to get up to $7.00 a gallon before I bought one. I figured they'd be practically giving them away then!
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:14:45 AM EST
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