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Posted: 12/8/2013 4:55:35 PM EST
Once the powers that be get done with all the regs, we'll be able to choose to carry a 21 for duty. Right now I don't feel like dumpin $1000 for another gun, I'm more interested in knowing if my back and hips will notice the difference in weight
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 7:29:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/8/2013 7:35:21 PM EST by CodeOrange]
Originally Posted By shindawia6:
Once the powers that be get done with all the regs, we'll be able to choose to carry a 21 for duty. Right now I don't feel like dumpin $1000 for another gun, I'm more interested in knowing if my back and hips will notice the difference in weight
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Gun shouldn't cost near that. I bought a new Gen 4 G21 for carry a couple months ago. With local LE discount through dealer I was out the door for around $520ish I believe. Sure you can get it cheaper at other places with LE pricing.

Not sure of difference in weight, but I know I wouldn't give up my 21. We are issued 22s, and recently given option to change to 21. Day I found that out, I ordered a holster with 2 day shipping and bought the 21 day it came in. I shoot it better then the 22, feels better in my hand personally, and like the round better then the .40.

Can tell you almost every other Officer (small dept) either wants a G21 or is looking to switch to one.

ETA; Carry mine in Safariland 6360 with TLR-1s attached, Trijicon night sights, and occasionally a +4 extended mag base.
Link Posted: 12/8/2013 9:18:38 PM EST
At my shop I order Glocks for myself at cost which is same as LE pricing

Gen 3 was $398 Gen 4 is $416 the 45/10 mm Glocks arevabout $30 more
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 1:59:29 AM EST
If the switch to the G21 is not mandatory, then don't switch.

/thread

Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:22:26 AM EST
the gun, holster, extra mags, night sites = close to a grand. there's also talk about dumpin the 40cal 180gr federal hst's for 165gr gold dots.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 4:48:06 AM EST
So bigger question - is the switch mandatory, and if not, do you want to switch?

I just don't see enough of a ballistic advantage between .40 and .45 to switch unless money is no issue.
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 5:55:54 AM EST
I would love to have the G31 as primary carry
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 9:26:26 AM EST
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Originally Posted By A1911SHOOTER:
I would love to have the G31 as primary carry
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This. My dept issues 31 and 32s. I love them. They issue gen3 but I went out and bought my own gen4 31 and I carry it on duty with a +2 mag in it. 18 rounds of .357 goodness
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 11:42:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By shindawia6:
the gun, holster, extra mags, night sites = close to a grand. there's also talk about dumpin the 40cal 180gr federal hst's for 165gr gold dots.
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Why the HST is a great round
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 11:42:58 AM EST
I would just stick with the G22 if its working for you
Link Posted: 12/9/2013 3:50:31 PM EST
not mandatory. As of now, we can carry the 17/22 19/23 for duty. We've had a few, around 6 police officer involved shootings in 2013 and two of the shootings I was on scene with and the hst round didn't penetrate for shit. Shitbags were in the open, not body armor. Shitbag one got hit 4 times in belly and lived, he'll be shitting in a bag for the rest of his life, but he'll still be sucking of the gov't tit. Sat in the o r with him and one round failed to expand

Shitbag two took three rounds to the ride side, all three rounds stopped by the breast plate and penetrated around 11"

couple firearms instructors are pushing for the 357sig because of it's performance and all it would take is a new barrel
Link Posted: 12/10/2013 1:03:32 AM EST
What about just switching to 180gr Gold Dots and staying in .40cal?

I also think that your agency is seeing it wrong if they are obsessing about the number of fatalities during OIS's. Actually killing the mook is far, far, far, secondary to stopping him. Stopping as in stopping him from continuing to do whatever it is that he was doing that made the officer shoot him in the first place. Reevaluate those shootings and see how many, if any, involved the mook continuing to hurt good people after being shot. If the answer is none, or even a small number, then the discussion of switching guns or calibers becomes very close to being moot since the existing platforms and rounds are already doing the job as intended.

Link Posted: 12/10/2013 10:10:39 PM EST
I switched from the 22 Gen 3 to the 21 Gen 4 as a result of switching departments. Given that it didn't result in me having to front the bill I got a unique opportunity to form my opinion without factoring in cost. Personally I like the 21 much better. I feel the larger frame fits my hand better. In shooting the same qualification course, my scores have gone up since making the switch (which I attribute to the more consistent grip I get with the 21). I never seemed to shoot the 22 as well as I would have liked, but I feel like I can't miss with the 21 (again probably has nothing to do with the guns themselves). The only downside I've encountered so far is the decreased ammo capacity. If cost wasn't a factor I'd say try both and see which works better for you. I've heard guys who switched the other way that think the 22 is better than the 21... It comes down to personal preference. Since cost is a significant factor, I don't think there's really enough to justify the switch. Best bet would be to wait till one of your buds buys one, then shoot his
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 5:04:09 AM EST
shouldn't cost that much?? unless you have to buy everything?

gun w/night sites, 3 mags ~$500
holster - $100
mag pouch - $25

??

Back in 2008, we were debating switching from the Glock 22 to a Glock 22/21 department. Once the admin saw that we would have to buy new holsters and mag pouches they said, nah, just stick with the 22.
I suggested how about the 31, same holsters. The chief asked me what research I've done since I've been shooting 357sig off duty for years, I just said USSS uses it, he said good enough.
So we switched to the Glock 31 and I got the city to start supplying my plinking ammo.


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:37:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By shindawia6:
not mandatory. As of now, we can carry the 17/22 19/23 for duty. We've had a few, around 6 police officer involved shootings in 2013 and two of the shootings I was on scene with and the hst round didn't penetrate for shit. Shitbags were in the open, not body armor. Shitbag one got hit 4 times in belly and lived, he'll be shitting in a bag for the rest of his life, but he'll still be sucking of the gov't tit. Sat in the o r with him and one round failed to expand

Shitbag two took three rounds to the ride side, all three rounds stopped by the breast plate and penetrated around 11"

couple firearms instructors are pushing for the 357sig because of it's performance and all it would take is a new barrel
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Welcome to pistol rounds!!

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:19:18 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 1911greg:


Welcome to pistol rounds!!

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Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Originally Posted By shindawia6:
not mandatory. As of now, we can carry the 17/22 19/23 for duty. We've had a few, around 6 police officer involved shootings in 2013 and two of the shootings I was on scene with and the hst round didn't penetrate for shit. Shitbags were in the open, not body armor. Shitbag one got hit 4 times in belly and lived, he'll be shitting in a bag for the rest of his life, but he'll still be sucking of the gov't tit. Sat in the o r with him and one round failed to expand

Shitbag two took three rounds to the ride side, all three rounds stopped by the breast plate and penetrated around 11"

couple firearms instructors are pushing for the 357sig because of it's performance and all it would take is a new barrel


Welcome to pistol rounds!!


This... and shot placement...and modern medical technology.
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